WTF, This is what we believe?

[ConHog]

Okay......but what about the 10 Commandments? Those are Jewish.

Indeed, wish is why those with brains call our country one founded on Judea/Christian beliefs.

In MANY ways Christianity is the child of Judaism.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Okay you disbelieving assholes, here's the article from FOX 5 News in Atlanta........



Texas Textbook Changes Stir Controversy | FOX 5 Atlanta | myfoxatlanta.com

So, Lonestar Dipshit?

Fuck You!​

It's a verified news source that you will accept (FOX) as well as shows the bullshit changes that they made.

The vote was held last month and passed by the way.

Those are changes but not lies. You said they were putting lies in the textbooks.

Those changes are there to spin the truth.

How the fuck did anything good happen in the 80's and 90's? That's when everyone got drunk on an overinflated economy, setting us up for the meltdown.

How is Phyllis Schafly more important than Susan B. Anthony? Should we take the vote away from women as well?

Erasing parts of history you don't like is a lie via omission.

Also, please explain how making the slave trade more PC is good? Instead of calling it the slave triangle (the slave/rum/sugar trade), they want to simply call it "the triangle trade", which really undercuts what happened.

No, I don't like the changes.

I feel you are spinning the changes innacurately.

I did not comment on the importance of the people added or deleted only stated that the changes they made are not innacurate. Do they paint a slightly different image of history, maybe, but the content is not a lie.

Its up to the teachers to present the material then discuss the merits and faults of the individuals included in said material.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Okay......but what about the 10 Commandments? Those are Jewish.

So? What does it matter if they are buddhist, christian, muslim or jewish? We have the freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion .

Seperation of church and state doesn't mean you cant talk about religion or display religious stuff in public places it just means that you can not establish a state religion or discriminate against a group of individuals based on their religion.

 

[ConHog]

the ideals were not belonging to Christians alone.

The USA was founded by people brought up in a Christian society heavily influenced by historical ethics, values and morals borrowed from others.

Of course the ideals were not those of Christians alone. I mean thou shalt not kill is not strictly a Christian belief, however most leading historical scholars tendto agree that murder being illegal from a government standpoint is a Christian concept as there is pretty compelling evidence that the first government to see murder as a criminal act was Rome after they became a Christian Empire, and of course most Western style law is heavily influenced by Roman law. Well more correctly we are patterned after English law, but that is itself patterned after Roman law.

Just as one Example.

But to point to a few more specific things that would seem to indicate that we are indeed a nation founded upon Christian ideals, as opposed to a theocracy, I give you.......

The Declaration of Independence - TEXT

How many times is He mentioned? It is generally accepted that He refers to a specific God, not just some generic creator god. So unless you care to make an argument that He refers to Islam's Allah, it seems as though one must accept that He refers to the Christian God.

Laus Deo - Do you know what it means and where it can be found on a public monument?

It means Praise be to God and is the capstone for the Washington Monument. by federal law nothing in Washington DC may rise above it. Again, it is commonly accepted that when God is capitalized it refers to the Christian God.

Why was this included, oh because Washington himself believed in the One True God

Here is a prayer of his

I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.

again unless you want to believe he was praying to Thor the god of thunder, it seems pretty obvious that he believed in God.

Here is another account of Washington praying to God

Party of 1776 - Washington's Prayer at Valley Forge


Seems kind of funny that the government would allow words about the Christian God to be part of historical documents and buildings if we weren't a Christian nation. I don't see any quotes about Allah anywhere in DC.

I'll be happy to provide further evidence once you have digested this and raised your stupid objections Biker

There are broad definitions and strict ones and many interpretations in between. What is meant by the terms "Christian Nation" will always be a matter of dispute, because even among the founding fathers, there was no firm agreement.

Saying America was founded as a Christian nation is almost as silly as saying America was founded as a Masonic nation with Masonic ideals.

America, a Christian nation founded by Masons who were according to Rome, in conflict with Church doctrine?

The denomination with the longest history of objection to Freemasonry is the Roman Catholic Church. The objections raised by the Roman Catholic Church are based on the allegation that Masonry teaches a naturalistic deistic religion which is in conflict with Church doctrine.[67] - wikipedia

.

Sir, you are confusing the issue. In the 1600's when the Puritans first started coming here, they weren't moving to avoid Muslims, they were moving because they had serious conflicts with the "official" Christian church stance, mostly of England at first. They didn't like being told you MUST believe this this this in order to be called a Christian by the government, and so they wished to form a government that was based on Christian values and morals, but not one that would recognize one branch of Christianity over another. Jews,Roman Catholics, Puritans,Quakers,Amish, they all believed in the One True God and the Bible, although obviously the contention lay in the interpretation of said Bible, they also believed man should the right to believe in ANY other religion they chose, or none if they so chose that. It was their very Christianity which led them to decide that the government should not be controlled by the Church, but should rather stand beside the right to worship as you see fit.

Let's assume they weren't Christians , and didn't want the Church to have any role in the new nation, wouldn't they have specifically said that just as many atheists today incorrectly try to do?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Of course the ideals were not those of Christians alone. I mean thou shalt not kill is...

...

There are broad definitions and strict ones and many interpretations in between. What is meant by the terms "Christian Nation" will always be a matter of dispute, because even among the founding fathers, there was no firm agreement.

Saying America was founded as a Christian nation is almost as silly as saying America was founded as a Masonic nation with Masonic ideals.

America, a Christian nation founded by Masons who were according to Rome, in conflict with Church doctrine?

The denomination with the longest history of objection to Freemasonry is the Roman Catholic Church. The objections raised by the Roman Catholic Church are based on the allegation that Masonry teaches a naturalistic deistic religion which is in conflict with Church doctrine.[67] - wikipedia

.

Sir, you are confusing the issue. In the 1600's when the Puritans first started coming here, they weren't moving to avoid Muslims, they were moving because they had serious conflicts with the "official" Christian church stance, mostly of England at first. They didn't like being told you MUST believe this this this in order to be called a Christian by the government, and so they wished to form a government that was based on Christian values and morals, but not one that would recognize one branch of Christianity over another. Jews,Roman Catholics, Puritans,Quakers,Amish, they all believed in the One True God and the Bible, although obviously the contention lay in the interpretation of said Bible, they also believed man should the right to believe in ANY other religion they chose, or none if they so chose that. It was their very Christianity which led them to decide that the government should not be controlled by the Church, but should rather stand beside the right to worship as you see fit.

Let's assume they weren't Christians , and didn't want the Church to have any role in the new nation, wouldn't they have specifically said that just as many atheists today incorrectly try to do?

Pilgrims and Puritans and others...settled the British Colonies. British common law came with them, along with ideas and ethics from other nations like the Netherlands, France, etc.

The Colonies became the USA (America).

Great Britain and other nations formed laws and ethics from ideas that predate Christianity.

The founders wanted 'their' churches to stay out of national government. State Constitutions made statements supporting the Christian sects (see Massachusetts State Constitution among a few others.). The founders of the nation left those clauses out as they picked and chose what to add to a national Constitution. Many of the most influential founders were Masons.

Religion, and Spirituality and Faith, and the Church, can all be separated in arguments concerning a God or a Supreme Being:

The Supreme Being and the Volume of Sacred Law

Candidates for regular Freemasonry are required to declare a belief in a Supreme Being.[28] However, the candidate is not asked to expand on, or explain, his interpretation of Supreme Being. The discussion of politics and religion is forbidden within a Masonic Lodge, in part so a Mason will not be placed in the situation of having to justify his personal interpretation.[29] Thus, reference to the Supreme Being will mean the Christian Trinity to a Christian Mason, Allah to a Muslim Mason, Para Brahman to a Hindu Mason, etc. And while most Freemasons would take the view that the term Supreme Being equates to God, others may hold a more complex or philosophical interpretation of the term.

In the ritual, the Supreme Being is referred to as the Great Architect of the Universe, which alludes to the use of architectural symbolism within Freemasonry.[30][31]

If the founding fathers wanted posterity to recognize the USA as a Christian nation, I am sure they would have said so...and if they founded the USA as a Christian nation and wanted the USA to stay a Christian nation, they would most likely have made that clause amendment proof.


btw, is there anything amendment proof in the US Constitution?

---

your quote: "...lay in the interpretation of said Bible, they also believed man should the right to believe in ANY other religion they chose, or none if they so chose that."

Christians of those early colonial days burnt people at the stake for their beliefs. They mandated Churches exist and that support from public funds pay for keeping Churches as state sponsored places/activities. Later, the founders moved away from that.

crazy link: Truth #6: Every State Constitution Acknowledges God

---

So like I said before, America was founded by Christians who were also Masons, and non believers. The ideals and ethics and more, of these Christians and others, were formed by their societies exposure to systems that predate Christianity.

America, the USA, was NOT founded as a Christian nation.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Okay......but what about the 10 Commandments? Those are Jewish.

So? What does it matter if they are buddhist, christian, muslim or jewish? We have the freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion .

Seperation of church and state doesn't mean you cant talk about religion or display religious stuff in public places it just means that you can not establish a state religion or discriminate against a group of individuals based on their religion.

and there is a valid argument that when the state sponsors or pays in any way, for Church activities, it is supporting an establishment of religion.

State Constitutions used to demand religion...the national Constitution disregarded that idiocy.

----

Of course the ideals were not those of Christians alone. I mean thou shalt not kill is...

...

There are broad definitions and strict ones and many interpretations in between. What is meant by the terms "Christian Nation" will always be a matter of dispute, because even among the founding fathers, there was no firm agreement.

Saying America was founded as a Christian nation is almost as silly as saying America was founded as a Masonic nation with Masonic ideals.

America, a Christian nation founded by Masons who were according to Rome, in conflict with Church doctrine?

The denomination with the longest history of objection to Freemasonry is the Roman Catholic Church. The objections raised by the Roman Catholic Church are based on the allegation that Masonry teaches a naturalistic deistic religion which is in conflict with Church doctrine.[67] - wikipedia

.

Sir, you are confusing the issue. In the 1600's when the Puritans first started coming here, they weren't moving to avoid Muslims, they were moving because they had serious conflicts with the "official" Christian church stance, mostly of England at first. They didn't like being told you MUST believe this this this in order to be called a Christian by the government, and so they wished to form a government that was based on Christian values and morals, but not one that would recognize one branch of Christianity over another. Jews,Roman Catholics, Puritans,Quakers,Amish, they all believed in the One True God and the Bible, although obviously the contention lay in the interpretation of said Bible, they also believed man should the right to believe in ANY other religion they chose, or none if they so chose that. It was their very Christianity which led them to decide that the government should not be controlled by the Church, but should rather stand beside the right to worship as you see fit.

Let's assume they weren't Christians , and didn't want the Church to have any role in the new nation, wouldn't they have specifically said that just as many atheists today incorrectly try to do?

Pilgrims and Puritans and others...settled the British Colonies. British common law came with them, along with ideas and ethics from other nations like the Netherlands, France, etc.

The Colonies became the USA (America).

Great Britain and other nations formed laws and ethics from ideas that predate Christianity.

The founders wanted 'their' churches to stay out of national government. State Constitutions made statements supporting the Christian sects (see Massachusetts State Constitution among a few others.). The founders of the nation left those clauses out as they picked and chose what to add to a national Constitution. Many of the most influential founders were Masons.

Religion, and Spirituality and Faith, and the Church, can all be separated in arguments concerning a God or a Supreme Being:

The Supreme Being and the Volume of Sacred Law

Candidates for regular Freemasonry are required to declare a belief in a Supreme Being.[28] However, the candidate is not asked to expand on, or explain, his interpretation of Supreme Being. The discussion of politics and religion is forbidden within a Masonic Lodge, in part so a Mason will not be placed in the situation of having to justify his personal interpretation.[29] Thus, reference to the Supreme Being will mean the Christian Trinity to a Christian Mason, Allah to a Muslim Mason, Para Brahman to a Hindu Mason, etc. And while most Freemasons would take the view that the term Supreme Being equates to God, others may hold a more complex or philosophical interpretation of the term.

In the ritual, the Supreme Being is referred to as the Great Architect of the Universe, which alludes to the use of architectural symbolism within Freemasonry.[30][31]

If the founding fathers wanted posterity to recognize the USA as a Christian nation, I am sure they would have said so...and if they founded the USA as a Christian nation and wanted the USA to stay a Christian nation, they would most likely have made that clause amendment proof.


btw, is there anything amendment proof in the US Constitution?

---

your quote: "...lay in the interpretation of said Bible, they also believed man should the right to believe in ANY other religion they chose, or none if they so chose that."

Christians of those early colonial days burnt people at the stake for their beliefs. They mandated Churches exist and that support from public funds pay for keeping Churches as state sponsored places/activities. Later, the founders moved away from that.

crazy link: Truth #6: Every State Constitution Acknowledges God

---

So like I said before, America was founded by Christians who were also Masons, and non believers. The ideals and ethics and more, of these Christians and others, were formed by their societies exposure to systems that predate Christianity.

America, the USA, was NOT founded as a Christian nation.

 

[ConHog]

There are broad definitions and strict ones and many interpretations in between. What is meant by the terms "Christian Nation" will always be a matter of dispute, because even among the founding fathers, there was no firm agreement.

Saying America was founded as a Christian nation is almost as silly as saying America was founded as a Masonic nation with Masonic ideals.

America, a Christian nation founded by Masons who were according to Rome, in conflict with Church doctrine?

Sir, you are confusing the issue. In the 1600's when the Puritans first started coming here, they weren't moving to avoid Muslims, they were moving because they had serious conflicts with the "official" Christian church stance, mostly of England at first. They didn't like being told you MUST believe this this this in order to be called a Christian by the government, and so they wished to form a government that was based on Christian values and morals, but not one that would recognize one branch of Christianity over another. Jews,Roman Catholics, Puritans,Quakers,Amish, they all believed in the One True God and the Bible, although obviously the contention lay in the interpretation of said Bible, they also believed man should the right to believe in ANY other religion they chose, or none if they so chose that. It was their very Christianity which led them to decide that the government should not be controlled by the Church, but should rather stand beside the right to worship as you see fit.

Let's assume they weren't Christians , and didn't want the Church to have any role in the new nation, wouldn't they have specifically said that just as many atheists today incorrectly try to do?

Pilgrims and Puritans and others...settled the British Colonies. British common law came with them, along with ideas and ethics from other nations like the Netherlands, France, etc.

The Colonies became the USA (America).

Great Britain and other nations formed laws and ethics from ideas that predate Christianity.

The founders wanted 'their' churches to stay out of national government. State Constitutions made statements supporting the Christian sects (see Massachusetts State Constitution among a few others.). The founders of the nation left those clauses out as they picked and chose what to add to a national Constitution. Many of the most influential founders were Masons.

Religion, and Spirituality and Faith, and the Church, can all be separated in arguments concerning a God or a Supreme Being:

The Supreme Being and the Volume of Sacred Law

Candidates for regular Freemasonry are required to declare a belief in a Supreme Being.[28] However, the candidate is not asked to expand on, or explain, his interpretation of Supreme Being. The discussion of politics and religion is forbidden within a Masonic Lodge, in part so a Mason will not be placed in the situation of having to justify his personal interpretation.[29] Thus, reference to the Supreme Being will mean the Christian Trinity to a Christian Mason, Allah to a Muslim Mason, Para Brahman to a Hindu Mason, etc. And while most Freemasons would take the view that the term Supreme Being equates to God, others may hold a more complex or philosophical interpretation of the term.

In the ritual, the Supreme Being is referred to as the Great Architect of the Universe, which alludes to the use of architectural symbolism within Freemasonry.[30][31]

If the founding fathers wanted posterity to recognize the USA as a Christian nation, I am sure they would have said so...and if they founded the USA as a Christian nation and wanted the USA to stay a Christian nation, they would most likely have made that clause amendment proof.


btw, is there anything amendment proof in the US Constitution?

---

your quote: "...lay in the interpretation of said Bible, they also believed man should the right to believe in ANY other religion they chose, or none if they so chose that."

Christians of those early colonial days burnt people at the stake for their beliefs. They mandated Churches exist and that support from public funds pay for keeping Churches as state sponsored places/activities. Later, the founders moved away from that.

crazy link: Truth #6: Every State Constitution Acknowledges God

---

So like I said before, America was founded by Christians who were also Masons, and non believers. The ideals and ethics and more, of these Christians and others, were formed by their societies exposure to systems that predate Christianity.

America, the USA, was NOT founded as a Christian nation.

Again, you are confusing the issue. I don not contend that we were meant to be a Christian nation. We are obviously not, in fact we were specifically meant NOT to be a nation that officially espoused any official religion.

I am arguing that we were founded as a nation underpinned by Judea/Christian principles, and what's more I am correct.

You seem like a smart person, surely you can recognize the two separate stances.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Riiiiiiiiight.........and I'm sure that you believe all the Founding Fathers were good Christian men, right?

Not all no, but 75% were.

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

BAHAHAHAHAHA, some of yall should REALLY consider doing some research before you open your big yappers.

Hey stupid......I already knew that a few of them weren't. That is why I said that to counterbalance the separation of church and state issue.

There are a lot of idiots that think the Founding Fathers were all Christian, and that this nation was founded on Christian ideals.

It wasn't.

That's why the Declaration of Independence, The National Anthem, The Preamble to the Constitution, the Constitution, and every State Preamble mentions God. Not to mention our National motto which is clearly printed on every piece of American currency.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

...

So like I said before, America was founded by Christians who were also Masons, and non believers. The ideals and ethics and more, of these Christians and others, were formed by their societies exposure to systems that predate Christianity.

America, the USA, was NOT founded as a Christian nation.

Again, you are confusing the issue. I don not contend that we were meant to be a Christian nation. We are obviously not, in fact we were specifically meant NOT to be a nation that officially espoused any official religion.

I am arguing that we were founded as a nation underpinned by Judea/Christian principles, and what's more I am correct.

You seem like a smart person, surely you can recognize the two separate stances.

You did not argue alone that we, America "were founded as a nation underpinned by Judea/Christian principles" because if you did there would be no argument.

You mentioned the experience of the Puritans as a supportive argument for a point or two you were making. They founded Christian colonies and demanded no freedom of, or from, religion. They demanded the exact opposite.

Judea/Christian principles, have other influences. They did not spring up in a void. If Judea/Christian principles get credit, their influences do too.

America was not founded as a Christian nation.

America was not founded by Christians (depending on how one defines Christian...and even Christians disagree there) -- ALONE.

America has always had a majority comprised of varying types and degrees of Christians/Christianity.

 

[ConHog]

Not all no, but 75% were.

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

BAHAHAHAHAHA, some of yall should REALLY consider doing some research before you open your big yappers.

Hey stupid......I already knew that a few of them weren't. That is why I said that to counterbalance the separation of church and state issue.

There are a lot of idiots that think the Founding Fathers were all Christian, and that this nation was founded on Christian ideals.

It wasn't.

That's why the Declaration of Independence, The National Anthem, The Preamble to the Constitution, the Constitution, and every State Preamble mentions God. Not to mention our National motto which is clearly printed on every piece of American currency.

Forgive him , he is stupid and doesn't know that there is a difference between being founded on Christian principles and being a theocracy

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No specific faith is supposed to be favored over any other one here, hence the separation of church and state.

It's only the fanatical conservatives that want to change it.

And "In God We Trust" on the cash isn't proof of anything. Florida had that quote first, and in the 1800's it was put on the national cash.

Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state clause. And please be specific.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Not all no, but 75% were.

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

BAHAHAHAHAHA, some of yall should REALLY consider doing some research before you open your big yappers.

Hey stupid......I already knew that a few of them weren't. That is why I said that to counterbalance the separation of church and state issue.

There are a lot of idiots that think the Founding Fathers were all Christian, and that this nation was founded on Christian ideals.

It wasn't.

That's why the Declaration of Independence, The National Anthem, The Preamble to the Constitution, the Constitution, and every State Preamble mentions God. Not to mention our National motto which is clearly printed on every piece of American currency.

The National Anthem, and American currency, came later.

Almost every State Preamble (maybe every) mentions God, but many State Preambles also mention what Church would be the state Church, and many State Preambles demanded public support (demanded, no vote here) of Churches.

The founders of the USA chose to keep that shit out of the national Constitution.

Superstitious beliefs in a higher power are written into almost every document. So what?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

No specific faith is supposed to be favored over any other one here, hence the separation of church and state.

It's only the fanatical conservatives that want to change it.

And "In God We Trust" on the cash isn't proof of anything. Florida had that quote first, and in the 1800's it was put on the national cash.

Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state clause. And please be specific.

clause?


go back to school.

Reflecting a concept often credited in its original form to the English political philosopher John Locke,[1] the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state.[2] The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Reflecting a concept often credited in its original form to the English political philosopher John Locke,[1] the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state.[2] The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

wikipedia

 

[ConHog]

...

So like I said before, America was founded by Christians who were also Masons, and non believers. The ideals and ethics and more, of these Christians and others, were formed by their societies exposure to systems that predate Christianity.

America, the USA, was NOT founded as a Christian nation.

Again, you are confusing the issue. I don not contend that we were meant to be a Christian nation. We are obviously not, in fact we were specifically meant NOT to be a nation that officially espoused any official religion.

I am arguing that we were founded as a nation underpinned by Judea/Christian principles, and what's more I am correct.

You seem like a smart person, surely you can recognize the two separate stances.

You did not argue alone that we, America "were founded as a nation underpinned by Judea/Christian principles" because if you did there would be no argument.

That is precisely what I argued, read my very first post on the matter, I said Christian ideals, I did NOT say our government was intended to be a Christian gov't.

So, we agree. No need to go further?

You mentioned the experience of the Puritans as a supportive argument for a point or two you were making. They founded Christian colonies and demanded no freedom of, or from, religion. They demanded the exact opposite.

Yes they did, at the state level, at the federal level they were unanimously in agreement that the federal gov't should stay out of religion. The very beginning of state's rights really.

Judea/Christian principles, have other influences. They did not spring up in a void. If Judea/Christian principles get credit, their influences do too.

Well since I personally believe that the first two people put on this earth were in fact Jews, I do not agree that Jewish principles are based off older principles. That however is a matter of belief and there is no point in you and I debating it here.

America was not founded as a Christian nation.

America was not founded by Christians (depending on how one defines Christian...and even Christians disagree there) -- ALONE.

America has always had a majority comprised of varying types and degrees of Christians/Christianity.

Well of course it wasn't founded by ONLY Christians, only a simpleton would argue such, just as only a simpleton would argue that the overwhelming majority of our founding fathers were not Christians, they were and it can't be debated.

Now back to Christian ideals. I'm assuming you are not a Christian (please correct me if I'm wrong?) But wouldn't you agree that the morals espoused by Christians are a good thing? (Note let's be clear that Christians do not always follow those morals themselves and that that should in no way dilute the ideal behind the moral.) I mean I have known, do know, and probably always will know good honorable people who are not Christians, but they live their lives (pretty much ) by what would be considered Christian values, they just don't believe in the Christian God.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Hey stupid......I already knew that a few of them weren't. That is why I said that to counterbalance the separation of church and state issue.

There are a lot of idiots that think the Founding Fathers were all Christian, and that this nation was founded on Christian ideals.

It wasn't.

That's why the Declaration of Independence, The National Anthem, The Preamble to the Constitution, the Constitution, and every State Preamble mentions God. Not to mention our National motto which is clearly printed on every piece of American currency.

The National Anthem, and American currency, came later.

Almost every State Preamble (maybe every) mentions God, but many State Preambles also mention what Church would be the state Church, and many State Preambles demanded public support (demanded, no vote here) of Churches.

The founders of the USA chose to keep that shit out of the national Constitution.

Superstitious beliefs in a higher power are written into almost every document. So what?

It doesn't matter the fact remains. God is specifically mentioned in the National Anthem and clearly marked on our currency.

Every single State preamble recognizes a Supreme Being most mentions God specifically.

Because the Constitution was meant to be a secular document. Giving each citizen the right to worship or not to worship. That's called FREEDOM of religion.

So what? Well it kind of throws your argument that this country was not founded upon Judeo-Christian principles out the window.

 

[maineman]

I will be writing to this publisher, and to Amazon; If a cool down enough to compose the letter without going off on them. They never understand it unless everything is PC these days, you have to sound nice, and show them that you understand it isn't their fault and all that horseshit.

I would suggest that, perhaps you might be "judging this book by its cover". The title of the book sounds harmless, but until you read it, you might want to withhold your reaction to the warning Amazon provided.

But then, you criticize all sorts of stuff without being aware of content or context, so why start now, eh?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No specific faith is supposed to be favored over any other one here, hence the separation of church and state.

It's only the fanatical conservatives that want to change it.

And "In God We Trust" on the cash isn't proof of anything. Florida had that quote first, and in the 1800's it was put on the national cash.

Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state clause. And please be specific.

clause?


go back to school.

Reflecting a concept often credited in its original form to the English political philosopher John Locke,[1] the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state.[2] The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

Separation of church and state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's NOT in the Constitution!?!?! The metaphor was used exclusively to keep the state out of the church's business, not to keep the church out of the state's business.

The constitution states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Both the free exercise clause and the establishment clause place restrictions on the government concerning laws they pass or interfering with religion. No restrictions are placed on religions except perhaps that a religious denomination cannot become the state religion.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

That's why the Declaration of Independence, The National Anthem, The Preamble to the Constitution, the Constitution, and every State Preamble mentions God. Not to mention our National motto which is clearly printed on every piece of American currency.

The National Anthem, and American currency, came later.

Almost every State Preamble (maybe every) mentions God, but many State Preambles also mention what Church would be the state Church, and many State Preambles demanded public support (demanded, no vote here) of Churches.

The founders of the USA chose to keep that shit out of the national Constitution.

Superstitious beliefs in a higher power are written into almost every document. So what?

It doesn't matter the fact remains. God is specifically mentioned in the National Anthem and clearly marked on our currency.

Every single State preamble recognizes a Supreme Being most mentions God specifically.

Because the Constitution was meant to be a secular document. Giving each citizen the right to worship or not to worship. That's called FREEDOM of religion.

So what? Well it kind of throws your argument that this country was not founded upon Judeo-Christian principles out the window.

I never argued here that America "was not founded upon Judeo-Christian principles" as I said America was never founded on Judeo-Christian principles alone.

Freedom of religion vs freedom from religion is a right wing talking point, a rephrasing of a strawman argument, meant to confuse the issue of Separation of Church and State.

The majority in each colony, wrote the individual state Constitutions. Many believed in God. So what? They did not demand we all do so when they ratified the national Constitution...and they could have. .


here is a pretty factual listing of things. Original and Early State Constitutions

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The National Anthem, and American currency, came later.

Almost every State Preamble (maybe every) mentions God, but many State Preambles also mention what Church would be the state Church, and many State Preambles demanded public support (demanded, no vote here) of Churches.

The founders of the USA chose to keep that shit out of the national Constitution.

Superstitious beliefs in a higher power are written into almost every document. So what?

It doesn't matter the fact remains. God is specifically mentioned in the National Anthem and clearly marked on our currency.

Every single State preamble recognizes a Supreme Being most mentions God specifically.

Because the Constitution was meant to be a secular document. Giving each citizen the right to worship or not to worship. That's called FREEDOM of religion.

So what? Well it kind of throws your argument that this country was not founded upon Judeo-Christian principles out the window.

I never argued here that America "was not founded upon Judeo-Christian principles" as I said America was never founded on Judeo-Christian principles alone.

Freedom of religion vs freedom from religion is a right wing talking point, a rephrasing of a strawman argument, meant to confuse the issue of Separation of Church and State.

The majority in each colony, wrote the individual state Constitutions. Many believed in God. So what? They did not demand we all do so when they ratified the national Constitution...and they could have. .


here is a pretty factual listing of things. Original and Early State Constitutions

I said State's Preambles, not State Constitutions.

'A Wall of Separation' (June 1998) - Library of Congress Information Bulletin