WTF, This is what we believe?

[Procrustes Stretched]

I got an email about this today and thought I would easily disprove it. I have friends who send me stuff and ask if it's for real. People this is for real. Here is a disclaimer copied from a book being sold on Amazon:

"2008 Wilder Publications

This book is a product of it's time and does not reflect the same values
as it would if it were written today...

The name of the book?

The Constitution
The Declaration of Independence and
The Articles of Confederation

Now I understand that yes we have changed the way we think about many things, but this is taught in History classes. Anyone who wants to warn my kids about the Constitution of the United States won't see any dollars from my wallet.

Oh and here is the page on Amazon:

Amazon.com: The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, and the Articles of Confederation (9781604592689): Books

Read it for yourself. I still can't believe it.

one word: slavery

You do realize the US CON actually makes slavery illegal, correct?

At the time? sure it did.

This book is a product of it's time and does not reflect the same values
as it would if it were written today...

 

[ABikerSailor]

I got an email about this today and thought I would easily disprove it. I have friends who send me stuff and ask if it's for real. People this is for real. Here is a disclaimer copied from a book being sold on Amazon:

"2008 Wilder Publications

This book is a product of it's time and does not reflect the same values
as it would if it were written today...

The name of the book?

The Constitution
The Declaration of Independence and
The Articles of Confederation

Now I understand that yes we have changed the way we think about many things, but this is taught in History classes. Anyone who wants to warn my kids about the Constitution of the United States won't see any dollars from my wallet.

Oh and here is the page on Amazon:

Amazon.com: The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, and the Articles of Confederation (9781604592689): Books

Read it for yourself. I still can't believe it.

one word: slavery

You do realize the US CON actually makes slavery illegal, correct?

Might wanna do some research yourself Cum Hog.......

The Constitution was ratified June 21, 1788, slavery wasn't abolished until 1 January 1863.

What about the years in between?

 

[ConHog]

one word: slavery

You do realize the US CON actually makes slavery illegal, correct?

Might wanna do some research yourself Cum Hog.......

The Constitution was ratified June 21, 1788, slavery wasn't abolished until 1 January 1863.

What about the years in between?

Have you heard of Amendments? As of TODAY the US CON makes slavery ILLEGAL. Agree or disagree?

 

[ABikerSailor]

"Separation of church and state" is progressive revisionism. There is quite a difference between the intentions of the "Establishment Clause" and what the progressives want.

Riiiiiiiiight.........and I'm sure that you believe all the Founding Fathers were good Christian men, right?

Not all no, but 75% were.

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

BAHAHAHAHAHA, some of yall should REALLY consider doing some research before you open your big yappers.

Hey stupid......I already knew that a few of them weren't. That is why I said that to counterbalance the separation of church and state issue.

There are a lot of idiots that think the Founding Fathers were all Christian, and that this nation was founded on Christian ideals.

It wasn't.

 

[amrchaos]

Is there a warning from Napolitano that it might inspire domestic terrorism?

It does inspire terrorist acts--namely against the British!! We should create warnings since the British are wonderful allies. In fact, their company British petroleum just, uh, uhmmmm--Hmmmmmm!

Give me that constitution! The British need a good old fashion Ass kicking by an American!! What the hell is BP trying to do? Commemorate the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 by soaking New Orleans in lighter fluid?

Nations like the British inspire revolutionary acts!!!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You do realize the US CON actually makes slavery illegal, correct?

Might wanna do some research yourself Cum Hog.......

The Constitution was ratified June 21, 1788, slavery wasn't abolished until 1 January 1863.

What about the years in between?

Have you heard of Amendments? As of TODAY the US CON makes slavery ILLEGAL. Agree or disagree?

read the OP: "This book is a product of it's time and does not reflect the same values
as it would if it were written today..."

 

[ConHog]

Riiiiiiiiight.........and I'm sure that you believe all the Founding Fathers were good Christian men, right?

Not all no, but 75% were.

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

BAHAHAHAHAHA, some of yall should REALLY consider doing some research before you open your big yappers.

Hey stupid......I already knew that a few of them weren't. That is why I said that to counterbalance the separation of church and state issue.

There are a lot of idiots that think the Founding Fathers were all Christian, and that this nation was founded on Christian ideals.

It wasn't.

Would you like to debate that with me? Wait, before you answer I suggest you do a quick search of my posts and see the trail of broken bodies I have left when people try to debate history with me. We certainly were founded on Christian ideals and I'll be happy to wipe the floor with you on that matter, any day of any week and twice on Saturday.

 

[Sheldon]

Might wanna do some research yourself Cum Hog.......

The Constitution was ratified June 21, 1788, slavery wasn't abolished until 1 January 1863.

What about the years in between?

Have you heard of Amendments? As of TODAY the US CON makes slavery ILLEGAL. Agree or disagree?

read the OP: "This book is a product of it's time and does not reflect the same values
as it would if it were written today..."

Or, for an example in even simpler and more direct words: the three-fifths compromise is not a reflection of mainstream values in modern America.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Go ahead Cum Hog.........show me how we are a Christian nation........

As far as your statement on the Constitution, you made it a blanket statement, you should have specified years.

You ate lead paint chips instead of Doritios as a child, din't ya?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Not all no, but 75% were.

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

BAHAHAHAHAHA, some of yall should REALLY consider doing some research before you open your big yappers.

Hey stupid......I already knew that a few of them weren't. That is why I said that to counterbalance the separation of church and state issue.

There are a lot of idiots that think the Founding Fathers were all Christian, and that this nation was founded on Christian ideals.

It wasn't.

Would you like to debate that with me? Wait, before you answer I suggest you do a quick search of my posts and see the trail of broken bodies I have left when people try to debate history with me. We certainly were founded on Christian ideals and I'll be happy to wipe the floor with you on that matter, any day of any week and twice on Saturday.

the ideals were not belonging to Christians alone.

The USA was founded by people brought up in a Christian society heavily influenced by historical ethics, values and morals borrowed from others.

 

[WillowTree]

Hey stupid......I already knew that a few of them weren't. That is why I said that to counterbalance the separation of church and state issue.

There are a lot of idiots that think the Founding Fathers were all Christian, and that this nation was founded on Christian ideals.

It wasn't.

Would you like to debate that with me? Wait, before you answer I suggest you do a quick search of my posts and see the trail of broken bodies I have left when people try to debate history with me. We certainly were founded on Christian ideals and I'll be happy to wipe the floor with you on that matter, any day of any week and twice on Saturday.

the ideals were not belonging to Christians alone.

The USA was founded by people brought up in a Christian society heavily influenced by historical ethics, values and morals borrowed from others.

thank god it wasn't founded by thumbsucking assholes such as yourself idiot

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Would you like to debate that with me? Wait, before you answer I suggest you do a quick search of my posts and see the trail of broken bodies I have left when people try to debate history with me. We certainly were founded on Christian ideals and I'll be happy to wipe the floor with you on that matter, any day of any week and twice on Saturday.

the ideals were not belonging to Christians alone.

The USA was founded by people brought up in a Christian society heavily influenced by historical ethics, values and morals borrowed from others.

thank god it wasn't founded by thumbsucking assholes such as yourself idiot

You ran out?


here's a sample to hold you over...

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

both the Texas changes and these warnings should be removed.

It is a private publisher and is their right to include the warning, which i find ridiculous, with their product.

I don't find the changes to the textbooks inaccurate or wrong.

so all founders were christian?

All the founders had faith in Divine Providence.

I dont believe the constitution says anything about specific types of religion such as christianity. They mention the creator, god, and divine providence (Faith) but not specific religions.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Okay you disbelieving assholes, here's the article from FOX 5 News in Atlanta........

Texas Textbook Changes Stir Controversy

Updated: Thursday, 11 Mar 2010, 12:31 PM EST
Published : Sunday, 07 Mar 2010, 6:00 PM EST

Edited by Steve Dixon

ATLANTA - The Texas Board of Education plan to change its social studies curriculum -- and changing its textbooks to reflect the new curriculum has some groups up in arms.

According to one news report, some on the board "seem to have concluded that Texas' classrooms have been infected with a liberal bias." [ Read the full report ] Thus, some want to include more conservative ideas in order to balance the standards.

Board member Don McLeroy -- in the same report (see link above) -- is said to be the sponsor of the proposed changes. McLeroy is quoted as saying in a statement that the current "standards are rife with leftist political periods and events: the populists, the progressives, the New Deal and the Great Society. Including material about the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s provides some political balance to the document."

Just what are some of the changes? In documents posted on the Texas Education Agency Website , 2nd graders would no longer have to learn about Henrietta C. King and Florence Nightengale, added is Abigail Adams. In the proposed curriculum changes for U.S. History Since 1877, out goes Susan B. Anthony and Shirley Chisholm and in comes Phyllis Schlafly.

The changes -- if approved -- will affect grades K-8 in all schools in the state. It is not clear if grades 9 -12 will also be impacted. School books in U.S. history, world history, U.S. government, economics, psychology, and sociology would have to be re-written to reflect the new changes.

Many groups -- from humanist to religious to ethnic -- have jumped in with their opinions on the issue. [ View MyFoxAustin story ]

Texas is said to be one of the largest purchasers of textbooks in the nation. Textbook publishers will have to follow Texas guidelines if they wish to continue to sell textbooks in Texas.

What impact the changes -- if adopted -- may have on other states is not known.

A vote on the proposed changes is due in May.

Texas Textbook Changes Stir Controversy | FOX 5 Atlanta | myfoxatlanta.com

So, Lonestar Dipshit?

Fuck You!​

It's a verified news source that you will accept (FOX) as well as shows the bullshit changes that they made.

The vote was held last month and passed by the way.

Those are changes but not lies. You said they were putting lies in the textbooks.

 

[ABikerSailor]

No specific faith is supposed to be favored over any other one here, hence the separation of church and state.

It's only the fanatical conservatives that want to change it.

And "In God We Trust" on the cash isn't proof of anything. Florida had that quote first, and in the 1800's it was put on the national cash.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

whoever put the ''book'' out is responsible for the disclaimer...

i serious doubt ''obama'' did it guys and gals.....sheesh

the ''wilder company'' has it copyrighted in 2008....

maybe YOU should take issue with THEM instead of trying to spin this in to ANOTHER partisan issue?

Why waste time with those that claim the disclaimer is obama's doing.....talk to me instead and have a debate

 

[ABikerSailor]

Okay you disbelieving assholes, here's the article from FOX 5 News in Atlanta........

Texas Textbook Changes Stir Controversy

Updated: Thursday, 11 Mar 2010, 12:31 PM EST
Published : Sunday, 07 Mar 2010, 6:00 PM EST

Edited by Steve Dixon

ATLANTA - The Texas Board of Education plan to change its social studies curriculum -- and changing its textbooks to reflect the new curriculum has some groups up in arms.

According to one news report, some on the board "seem to have concluded that Texas' classrooms have been infected with a liberal bias." [ Read the full report ] Thus, some want to include more conservative ideas in order to balance the standards.

Board member Don McLeroy -- in the same report (see link above) -- is said to be the sponsor of the proposed changes. McLeroy is quoted as saying in a statement that the current "standards are rife with leftist political periods and events: the populists, the progressives, the New Deal and the Great Society. Including material about the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s provides some political balance to the document."

Just what are some of the changes? In documents posted on the Texas Education Agency Website , 2nd graders would no longer have to learn about Henrietta C. King and Florence Nightengale, added is Abigail Adams. In the proposed curriculum changes for U.S. History Since 1877, out goes Susan B. Anthony and Shirley Chisholm and in comes Phyllis Schlafly.

The changes -- if approved -- will affect grades K-8 in all schools in the state. It is not clear if grades 9 -12 will also be impacted. School books in U.S. history, world history, U.S. government, economics, psychology, and sociology would have to be re-written to reflect the new changes.

Many groups -- from humanist to religious to ethnic -- have jumped in with their opinions on the issue. [ View MyFoxAustin story ]

Texas is said to be one of the largest purchasers of textbooks in the nation. Textbook publishers will have to follow Texas guidelines if they wish to continue to sell textbooks in Texas.

What impact the changes -- if adopted -- may have on other states is not known.

A vote on the proposed changes is due in May.

Texas Textbook Changes Stir Controversy | FOX 5 Atlanta | myfoxatlanta.com

So, Lonestar Dipshit?

Fuck You!​

It's a verified news source that you will accept (FOX) as well as shows the bullshit changes that they made.

The vote was held last month and passed by the way.

Those are changes but not lies. You said they were putting lies in the textbooks.

Those changes are there to spin the truth.

How the fuck did anything good happen in the 80's and 90's? That's when everyone got drunk on an overinflated economy, setting us up for the meltdown.

How is Phyllis Schafly more important than Susan B. Anthony? Should we take the vote away from women as well?

Erasing parts of history you don't like is a lie via omission.

Also, please explain how making the slave trade more PC is good? Instead of calling it the slave triangle (the slave/rum/sugar trade), they want to simply call it "the triangle trade", which really undercuts what happened.

No, I don't like the changes.

 

[ConHog]

Hey stupid......I already knew that a few of them weren't. That is why I said that to counterbalance the separation of church and state issue.

There are a lot of idiots that think the Founding Fathers were all Christian, and that this nation was founded on Christian ideals.

It wasn't.

Would you like to debate that with me? Wait, before you answer I suggest you do a quick search of my posts and see the trail of broken bodies I have left when people try to debate history with me. We certainly were founded on Christian ideals and I'll be happy to wipe the floor with you on that matter, any day of any week and twice on Saturday.

the ideals were not belonging to Christians alone.

The USA was founded by people brought up in a Christian society heavily influenced by historical ethics, values and morals borrowed from others.

Of course the ideals were not those of Christians alone. I mean thou shalt not kill is not strictly a Christian belief, however most leading historical scholars tendto agree that murder being illegal from a government standpoint is a Christian concept as there is pretty compelling evidence that the first government to see murder as a criminal act was Rome after they became a Christian Empire, and of course most Western style law is heavily influenced by Roman law. Well more correctly we are patterned after English law, but that is itself patterned after Roman law.

Just as one Example.

But to point to a few more specific things that would seem to indicate that we are indeed a nation founded upon Christian ideals, as opposed to a theocracy, I give you.......

The Declaration of Independence - TEXT

How many times is He mentioned? It is generally accepted that He refers to a specific God, not just some generic creator god. So unless you care to make an argument that He refers to Islam's Allah, it seems as though one must accept that He refers to the Christian God.

Laus Deo - Do you know what it means and where it can be found on a public monument?

It means Praise be to God and is the capstone for the Washington Monument. by federal law nothing in Washington DC may rise above it. Again, it is commonly accepted that when God is capitalized it refers to the Christian God.

Why was this included, oh because Washington himself believed in the One True God

Here is a prayer of his

I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.

again unless you want to believe he was praying to Thor the god of thunder, it seems pretty obvious that he believed in God.

Here is another account of Washington praying to God

Party of 1776 - Washington's Prayer at Valley Forge


Seems kind of funny that the government would allow words about the Christian God to be part of historical documents and buildings if we weren't a Christian nation. I don't see any quotes about Allah anywhere in DC.

I'll be happy to provide further evidence once you have digested this and raised your stupid objections Biker

 

[ABikerSailor]

Okay......but what about the 10 Commandments? Those are Jewish.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Would you like to debate that with me? Wait, before you answer I suggest you do a quick search of my posts and see the trail of broken bodies I have left when people try to debate history with me. We certainly were founded on Christian ideals and I'll be happy to wipe the floor with you on that matter, any day of any week and twice on Saturday.

the ideals were not belonging to Christians alone.

The USA was founded by people brought up in a Christian society heavily influenced by historical ethics, values and morals borrowed from others.

Of course the ideals were not those of Christians alone. I mean thou shalt not kill is not strictly a Christian belief, however most leading historical scholars tendto agree that murder being illegal from a government standpoint is a Christian concept as there is pretty compelling evidence that the first government to see murder as a criminal act was Rome after they became a Christian Empire, and of course most Western style law is heavily influenced by Roman law. Well more correctly we are patterned after English law, but that is itself patterned after Roman law.

Just as one Example.

But to point to a few more specific things that would seem to indicate that we are indeed a nation founded upon Christian ideals, as opposed to a theocracy, I give you.......

The Declaration of Independence - TEXT

How many times is He mentioned? It is generally accepted that He refers to a specific God, not just some generic creator god. So unless you care to make an argument that He refers to Islam's Allah, it seems as though one must accept that He refers to the Christian God.

Laus Deo - Do you know what it means and where it can be found on a public monument?

It means Praise be to God and is the capstone for the Washington Monument. by federal law nothing in Washington DC may rise above it. Again, it is commonly accepted that when God is capitalized it refers to the Christian God.

Why was this included, oh because Washington himself believed in the One True God

Here is a prayer of his

I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.

again unless you want to believe he was praying to Thor the god of thunder, it seems pretty obvious that he believed in God.

Here is another account of Washington praying to God

Party of 1776 - Washington's Prayer at Valley Forge


Seems kind of funny that the government would allow words about the Christian God to be part of historical documents and buildings if we weren't a Christian nation. I don't see any quotes about Allah anywhere in DC.

I'll be happy to provide further evidence once you have digested this and raised your stupid objections Biker

There are broad definitions and strict ones and many interpretations in between. What is meant by the terms "Christian Nation" will always be a matter of dispute, because even among the founding fathers, there was no firm agreement.

Saying America was founded as a Christian nation is almost as silly as saying America was founded as a Masonic nation with Masonic ideals.

America, a Christian nation founded by Masons who were according to Rome, in conflict with Church doctrine?

The denomination with the longest history of objection to Freemasonry is the Roman Catholic Church. The objections raised by the Roman Catholic Church are based on the allegation that Masonry teaches a naturalistic deistic religion which is in conflict with Church doctrine.[67] - wikipedia

.