CDZ Why was the fully automatic firing system banned?

[francoHFW]

Here's a hint: the military doesn't even use weapons like that.

Keerect! These days they have fully automatic Hellfire missiles.

Not sure if this is sarcasm. In any event, comparing personal arms to surface-to-air missiles doesn't make much sense. The standard issue weapon in the military is a semiautomatic rifle with a 3 round burst option. And they aren't even inclined to use 3 round burst mode. Accordingly, there is no legitimate comparison between bans against automatic weapons versus proposed bans against AR-15s or other weapons that just happen to look scary.

And really appeal 2 Semi insane super soldier/Isis wannabes.....

 

[BULLDOG]

i know people can still get them if they pay a special tax, register and are willing to shuck out big dollars for one. But why did the federal government put all those infringements in the way of people bearing Thompson sub machine guns and other weapons withma fully automatic firing system? How has that infringement held up against court challenges all these years?

Firearm Owners Protection Act - Wikipedia

The Act also contained a provision that banned the sale of machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment to civilians, restricting sales of these weapons to the military and law enforcement. Thus, in the ensuing years, the limited supply of these arms available to civilians has caused an enormous increase in their price, with most costing in excess of $10,000. Regarding these fully-automatic firearmsowned by private citizens in the U.S., political scientist Earl Kruschke said "approximately 175,000 automatic firearms have been licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (the federal agency responsible for administration of the law) and evidence suggests that none of these weapons has ever been used to commit a violent crime."[3]:85

The Act mandated that ATF compliance inspections can be done only once per year. An exception to the "once per year" rule exists if multiple record-keeping violations are recorded in an inspection, in which case the ATF may do a follow-up inspection. The main reason for a follow-up inspection would be if guns could not be accounted for.


Ban On New Automatic FirearmsEdit
As debate for FOPA was in its final stages in the House before moving on to the Senate, Rep. William J. Hughes (D-N.J.) proposed several amendments including House Amendment 777 to H.R. 4332, which modified the act to ban the civilian ownership of new machine guns, specifically to amend 18 U.S.C. § 922 to add subsection (o):

(o)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machinegun.

(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to— (A) a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(B) any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes effect.
The ATF, as a representative of the U.S. and with authority from the National Firearms Act, can authorize the transfer of a machine gun to an unlicensed civilian. An unlicensed individual may acquire machine guns, with ATF approval.[4] The transferor must file an ATF application, which must be completed by both parties to the transfer:[4]

• executed under penalties of perjury[5]
• both parties must reside in the same state as the individual
• pay a $200 transfer tax to ATF[6]
• the application must include detailed information on the firearm and the parties to the transfer[5][7]
• the transferee must certify on the application that he or she is not disqualified from possessing firearms on grounds specified in law
• the transferee must submit with the application (1) two photographs taken within the past year; and (2) fingerprints[7]
• the transferee must submit with the application (3) a copy of any state or local permit or license required to buy, possess, or acquire machine guns
• an appropriate (local) law enforcement official must certify whether he or she has any information indicating that the firearm will be used for other than lawful purposes or that possession would violate state or federal law[7]
• the transferee must, as part of the registration process, pass an extensive Federal Bureau of Investigation criminal background investigation.[8]

If ATF denies an application, it must refund the tax.[4] Gun owners must keep approved applications as evidence of registration of the firearms and make them available for inspection by ATF officers.[4]


District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and ...
District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia

So these weapons were deemed too hazardous to be held by private citizens. These weapons were considered a public safety priority.

Interesting.

That depends on the person and their intent. I've fired full-auto weapons and never had an inclination to commit any crime with a weapon.

And yet, they are still banned. Are you going to put up with that infringement on your rights? Crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why should a law abiding machine gun owner have his rights infringed?

 

[BULLDOG]

i know people can still get them if they pay a special tax, register and are willing to shuck out big dollars for one. But why did the federal government put all those infringements in the way of people bearing Thompson sub machine guns and other weapons withma fully automatic firing system? How has that infringement held up against court challenges all these years?

Prohibition and gangsters. Next!

Public safety.

Interesting precedent.

Even though they're still legal to own, only two crimes have been committed with a legally-owned full-auto weapon since the bill was passed in 1934.

You can draw your own conclusions.

Are you for or against legalizing fully automatic machine guns?

 

[there4eyeM]

Why was the fully automatic firing system banned?

Because reasonable people came to a reasonable conclusion.

 

[JGalt]

Here's a hint: the military doesn't even use weapons like that.

Keerect! These days they have fully automatic Hellfire missiles.

Not sure if this is sarcasm. In any event, comparing personal arms to surface-to-air missiles doesn't make much sense. The standard issue weapon in the military is a semiautomatic rifle with a 3 round burst option. And they aren't even inclined to use 3 round burst mode. Accordingly, there is no legitimate comparison between bans against automatic weapons versus proposed bans against AR-15s or other weapons that just happen to look scary.

You are correct. They went to the three-round burst with the M4 carbine. But there's also an M4A1 used by some branches of service, that retained the full-auto selection.

 

[BULLDOG]

Nosmos, what you don’t get is they are not illegal. You just have to have the proper paperwork.

So it would be alright to require the same paperwork for some other guns?

 

[JGalt]

i know people can still get them if they pay a special tax, register and are willing to shuck out big dollars for one. But why did the federal government put all those infringements in the way of people bearing Thompson sub machine guns and other weapons withma fully automatic firing system? How has that infringement held up against court challenges all these years?

Prohibition and gangsters. Next!

Public safety.

Interesting precedent.

Even though they're still legal to own, only two crimes have been committed with a legally-owned full-auto weapon since the bill was passed in 1934.

You can draw your own conclusions.

Are you for or against legalizing fully automatic machine guns?

Hello? They're already legal. They've always been legal, just regulated.

 

[JGalt]

[Q

Feel good laws that stop nothing

I don't own a bump stock but I am a range officer that have shot them and have supervised other people shooting them.

They are a range toy for the most part. They are not an effective weapon system by any means.

The only reason the shooter in LV was able to do damage with one was because he was shooting down upon a large group of thousands of people. Even at that t he bump stock caused the rifles to jam. He would been more effective with a real or converted full auto rifle.

Banning bump stocks will not stop one crime in the future from being done but it is taking freedom away from the people.

Idiot politicians.

Trump is Banning bump stocks and all conversion kits. Maybe that will do the trick.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cwAA&usg=AOvVaw2kLM_2CLNID60ncz93htw-&ampcf=1

of course, being Trump he had to lie about Obama. Obama did not legalize bump stocks, the GOP blocked him from Banning them.

As usual, completely untrue.

More to story on NRA's claim that Obama approved bump stocks

Politico sometimes has to BS in order to say something against Democrats. Much like the LIE of the year which was total b*******. The GOP blocked everything he wanted.

Just because it's Politico doesn't mean it's not true.

 

[BULLDOG]

i know people can still get them if they pay a special tax, register and are willing to shuck out big dollars for one. But why did the federal government put all those infringements in the way of people bearing Thompson sub machine guns and other weapons withma fully automatic firing system? How has that infringement held up against court challenges all these years?

Prohibition and gangsters. Next!

Public safety.

Interesting precedent.

Even though they're still legal to own, only two crimes have been committed with a legally-owned full-auto weapon since the bill was passed in 1934.

You can draw your own conclusions.

They are almost impossible to get for good reason. This was before Fox and Rush and the now crazy bought off NRA brainwashed you morons into thinking you are Freedom Fighters.

They're not "almost impossible" to obtain, idiot. Maybe expensive, but that keeps the riff-raff and Democrats, and other criminals from owning them.

There is an extremely limited amount of machine guns legally available to own. Yes, they are hard to get.

 

[Ringel05]

i know people can still get them if they pay a special tax, register and are willing to shuck out big dollars for one. But why did the federal government put all those infringements in the way of people bearing Thompson sub machine guns and other weapons withma fully automatic firing system? How has that infringement held up against court challenges all these years?

For the most part it was a political knee jerk reaction to primarily the mob's use of automatic weapons and at the time they weren't banned, the purchaser had to go through a background check and pay the $200 "tax stamp". The Machine Gun Registry was closed to all new machine guns in the 1980s so only those weapons made prior to the closure are eligible for sale to civilians.

 

[Vandalshandle]

You want to hear something really stupid?

They passed that really dumbass bump stock ban here in Florida. Idiot!

The wording was such that binary triggers were included.

I have a binary trigger and it is illegal now and I will have to get rid of it.

However, meanwhile my Class III M-16 machine gun is perfectly legal.

Another example of the stupidity of the frigging government. They don't know their head from a hole in the ground for these idiotic laws they passed.

Florida's new laws are idiotic. Law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the acts of a few criminals.

My thoughts and prayers go out to you, while you endure your "punishment".

 

[francoHFW]

I don't own a bump stock but I am a range officer that have shot them and have supervised other people shooting them.

They are a range toy for the most part. They are not an effective weapon system by any means.

The only reason the shooter in LV was able to do damage with one was because he was shooting down upon a large group of thousands of people. Even at that t he bump stock caused the rifles to jam. He would been more effective with a real or converted full auto rifle.

Banning bump stocks will not stop one crime in the future from being done but it is taking freedom away from the people.

Idiot politicians.

Trump is Banning bump stocks and all conversion kits. Maybe that will do the trick.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cwAA&usg=AOvVaw2kLM_2CLNID60ncz93htw-&ampcf=1

of course, being Trump he had to lie about Obama. Obama did not legalize bump stocks, the GOP blocked him from Banning them.

As usual, completely untrue.

More to story on NRA's claim that Obama approved bump stocks

Politico sometimes has to BS in order to say something against Democrats. Much like the LIE of the year which was total b*******. The GOP blocked everything he wanted.

Just because it's Politico doesn't mean it's not true.

the article says Obama couldn't ban bump stocks because of an existing law and of course he couldn't change the law because the GOP would block him as they always did. To say he approved bump stocks is a typical GOP lie. I'm I'm sure you believe Politico is communist but actually they do everything they can to appear unbiased. Which means they have to lie because the GOP is at the bottom of everything ruining the country and are totally full of it, like its dupes.

 

[JGalt]

Prohibition and gangsters. Next!

Public safety.

Interesting precedent.

Even though they're still legal to own, only two crimes have been committed with a legally-owned full-auto weapon since the bill was passed in 1934.

You can draw your own conclusions.

They are almost impossible to get for good reason. This was before Fox and Rush and the now crazy bought off NRA brainwashed you morons into thinking you are Freedom Fighters.

They're not "almost impossible" to obtain, idiot. Maybe expensive, but that keeps the riff-raff and Democrats, and other criminals from owning them.

There is an extremely limited amount of machine guns legally available to own. Yes, they are hard to get.

Not hard to get. Maybe expensive, but why drive a beat-up Chevy if you can afford a Maserati?

Filling out some BATFE forms, being fingerprinted and photographed, and getting signed off by my local law-enforcement agency is the easy part. The hard part is the wait. The BATFE is slow.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

i know people can still get them if they pay a special tax, register and are willing to shuck out big dollars for one. But why did the federal government put all those infringements in the way of people bearing Thompson sub machine guns and other weapons withma fully automatic firing system? How has that infringement held up against court challenges all these years?

Because of FDR. He was the one who signed the National Firearms Act of 1934.

According to Wikipedia:

"The impetus for the National Firearms Act of 1934 was the gangland crime of the Prohibition era, such as the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre of 1929, and the attempted assassination of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933."

National Firearms Act - Wikipedia

Gangland crime similar to that produced today by the drug prohibition.

Are we learning yet?

 

[JGalt]

i know people can still get them if they pay a special tax, register and are willing to shuck out big dollars for one. But why did the federal government put all those infringements in the way of people bearing Thompson sub machine guns and other weapons withma fully automatic firing system? How has that infringement held up against court challenges all these years?

Because of FDR. He was the one who signed the National Firearms Act of 1934.

According to Wikipedia:

"The impetus for the National Firearms Act of 1934 was the gangland crime of the Prohibition era, such as the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre of 1929, and the attempted assassination of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933."

National Firearms Act - Wikipedia

Gangland crime similar to that produced today by the drug prohibition.

Are we learning yet?

We have learned. But someone forgot to send those drug-runners the memo.

 

[BULLDOG]

i know people can still get them if they pay a special tax, register and are willing to shuck out big dollars for one. But why did the federal government put all those infringements in the way of people bearing Thompson sub machine guns and other weapons withma fully automatic firing system? How has that infringement held up against court challenges all these years?

Prohibition and gangsters. Next!

Public safety.

Interesting precedent.

Even though they're still legal to own, only two crimes have been committed with a legally-owned full-auto weapon since the bill was passed in 1934.

You can draw your own conclusions.

Are you for or against legalizing fully automatic machine guns?

Hello? They're already legal. They've always been legal, just regulated.

Manufacture of machine guns for sale to the public has been banned for a long time.

Would it be OK to regulate other types of guns the same way fully auto guns built before 1986 are regulated?

 

[JGalt]

Prohibition and gangsters. Next!

Public safety.

Interesting precedent.

Even though they're still legal to own, only two crimes have been committed with a legally-owned full-auto weapon since the bill was passed in 1934.

You can draw your own conclusions.

Are you for or against legalizing fully automatic machine guns?

Hello? They're already legal. They've always been legal, just regulated.

Manufacture of machine guns for sale to the public has been banned for a long time.

Would it be OK to regulate other types of guns the same way fully auto guns built before 1986 are regulated?

Nope.

 

[BULLDOG]

Public safety.

Interesting precedent.

Even though they're still legal to own, only two crimes have been committed with a legally-owned full-auto weapon since the bill was passed in 1934.

You can draw your own conclusions.

Are you for or against legalizing fully automatic machine guns?

Hello? They're already legal. They've always been legal, just regulated.

Manufacture of machine guns for sale to the public has been banned for a long time.

Would it be OK to regulate other types of guns the same way fully auto guns built before 1986 are regulated?

Nope.

Why? The 2nd doesn't make exceptions for fully auto guns any more than any other gun.

 

[Flash]

[Q

Feel good laws that stop nothing

I don't own a bump stock but I am a range officer that have shot them and have supervised other people shooting them.

They are a range toy for the most part. They are not an effective weapon system by any means.

The only reason the shooter in LV was able to do damage with one was because he was shooting down upon a large group of thousands of people. Even at that t he bump stock caused the rifles to jam. He would been more effective with a real or converted full auto rifle.

Banning bump stocks will not stop one crime in the future from being done but it is taking freedom away from the people.

Idiot politicians.

You are correct. The LV shooter could have just as easily ran up more of a body count by using the sights, and not spraying indiscriminately.

A binary trigger would have been much more effect for just putting out bullets from an elevated position into a crowd.

The guy had money so he could have bought a couple of legal Class III machine guns. He could have bought black market F-A guns. A converted F-A would have been more reliable and less discriminate than a bump stock.

However, I agree with you that directed semi auto fire would have been more effective.

As horrific as the killing was thank goodness the guy didn't know much about the firearms or else he could have inflicted even more damage than he did.

 

[Flash]

You want to hear something really stupid?

They passed that really dumbass bump stock ban here in Florida. Idiot!

The wording was such that binary triggers were included.

I have a binary trigger and it is illegal now and I will have to get rid of it.

However, meanwhile my Class III M-16 machine gun is perfectly legal.

Another example of the stupidity of the frigging government. They don't know their head from a hole in the ground for these idiotic laws they passed.

Florida's new laws are idiotic. Law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the acts of a few criminals.

My thoughts and prayers go out to you, while you endure your "punishment".

Curtailment of liberty punishes all of us.