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^^^^ An example of Irosie's idiotic rants that drive people away from a good thread where an actual discussion about the subject of the OP's post was happening.shouldn't da muzzies be over there slitting throats and at the very least throwing pig shit at the
guy with the orb with a cross on top?
Two hundred and three years ago this month, President James Madison approved the act of Congress purchasing Thomas Jefferson’s private library. Intended to restock the Library of Congress after its previous holdings were destroyed by British arson during the War of 1812, the transfer of books from Monticello to Washington also highlights a forgotten aspect of religious diversity in early America.
Among the 6,487 books that soon traveled north, Jefferson’s 1734 edition of the Qur’an is perhaps the most surprising.
Historians have attributed the third president’s ownership of the Muslim holy book to his curiosity about a variety of religious perspectives. It’s appropriate to view it that way. Jefferson bought this book while he was a young man studying law, and he may have read it in part to better understand Islam’s influence on some of the world’s legal systems.
But that obscures a crucial fact: To many living in Jefferson’s young nation, this book meant much more. Some scholars estimate 20 percent of the enslaved men and women brought to the Americas were Muslims. While today these American followers of the Prophet Muhammad have been largely forgotten, the presence of Islam in the United States was not unknown among the nation’s citizens in the 18th and 19th centuries. Often practiced in secret, reluctantly abandoned, or blended with other traditions, these first attempts ultimately did not survive slavery. But the mere existence of Islam in the early republic is evidence that religious diversity in this country has a deeper and more complex history than many now know.
Not long before Jefferson’s Qur’an rolled north with the rest of his library in 1815, another American attempted to write his own Islamic sacred text, albeit in a form that could not be so easily transported or understood. He wrote his in Arabic on a jail cell wall.
Slave traders captured Omar ibn Said in what is now Senegal and brought him to Charleston, South Carolina, in 1807. He was sold to a man that Said would describe as cruel and a kafir, or infidel. A devout Muslim when he arrived in the United States, Said strived during his enslavement first to maintain his faith, and then to transform it. His story has earned a place in history—as well as in the “Religion in Early America” exhibition, currently on view at the National Museum of American History, and on the Smithsonian Institution’s latest Sidedoor podcast.
Read more: Why Thomas Jefferson Owned a Qur’an | At the Smithsonian | Smithsonian
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That's an interesting bit of history.
Thrill-Killers' HandbookMuhammad holding Qur'an carved into the wall of the US Supreme Court.
^^^^ An example of Irosie's idiotic rants that drive people away from a good thread where an actual discussion about the subject of the OP's post was happening.shouldn't da muzzies be over there slitting throats and at the very least throwing pig shit at the
guy with the orb with a cross on top?
And then there is the retarded poster TAZ ,who follows me from thread to thread, talking about toilet paper. ....
So yea, basically the thread is toast, and I'm outta here. ....
Notice Mohammed is also holding a sword to chop off your head if you don't submit.Muhammad holding Qur'an carved into the wall of the US Supreme Court.
Picaro, I can assure you that all non arabic speaking muslims are always looking for the best and closest word for word translation of the Qur'an.[
That being said, there are plenty of legitimate Muslim scholars who can be trusted, mainly those Egyptian scholars who don't compromise from the ancient records, and approve the three top translations into English and other languages. Too many people are becoming aware of the practice of taqiyya, abrogation, and kithman as features of Islamic culture and religious practices when it comes to dealing with 'infidels'; maybe the more sane Islamists will finally see the errors of those practices when it comes to propagandizing countries with free presses and up their game.
Personally, I own well over 20 different copies of the the Qur'an by various translators, in the vain hope of finding the perfect translation. Which ain't never gonna happen. .....
Ok, here's your chance, tell me something good about Islam that I did not know. I'll wait.Leave it to Irosie with her psycho rants to kill a good thread.
Whenever she shows up, the people having an informative discussion about Islam and muslims usually choose to abandon the thread.
Sad but true......
This is great history. Unless I'm not remembering correctly this put this the United States on the map as an up and coming world power.
...I think that everyone should read both the Bible and the Qur'an to know what these people believe. For those few people who don't have a Bible, the first link below will lead you to a site which has dozens of versions in multiple languages. It also has word search and passage search. For those who do not have a copy of the Qur'an, the second link will lead you to M.H. Shakir's translation of this Book.
Indeed. I use an older translation of the Koran, by Pickthall; many of the newer 'translations' are faked and 'cleaned up' in order to fool modern western readers as to what it really says. If one can find a pre-1980's Pickthall translation, they will be okay; the older hard copies are best.
Geert Wilder was 100% correct when he pointed out the Koran was hate speech and should be banned according to Dutch and EU laws in most EU countries.
I read the Pickthall version ----circa 1970. At that time my informant----a surgeon from
Karachi Pakistan----told me that before Pickthall ---there was no translation into English
(don't quote me----its hearsay) He knew I had it because I was so horrified by the mash
up of bible stories that I told him ---"get in touch with the publishers and printers-----they
messed up everything" He also said it had not be translated into Urdu-----so he never read it
The difference is Jesus never used violence or condoned it. Violence is not condoned in the New Testament to spread the Gospel, preaching is. Mohammed condoned and used violence.Notice Mohammed is also holding a sword to chop off your head if you don't submit.Muhammad holding Qur'an carved into the wall of the US Supreme Court.
No theology is non-violent, and certainly not any in the ME; Peter and some of the other Apostles carried swords, and Peter himself lopped the ear off a city official who came to arrest Jesus. True, some are far more nonviolent than others, and some are death cults that reward followers who kill the most people, like Islam.
If it hasn't been already it should be noted Jefferson was a Deist and was criticized for his beliefs. He coined the phrase "wall of separation between church and state". He is my favorite founding father.
Religious views of Thomas Jefferson - Wikipedia
The difference is Jesus never used violence or condoned it. Violence is not condoned in the New Testament to spread the Gospel, preaching is. Mohammed condoned and used violence.Notice Mohammed is also holding a sword to chop off your head if you don't submit.Muhammad holding Qur'an carved into the wall of the US Supreme Court.
No theology is non-violent, and certainly not any in the ME; Peter and some of the other Apostles carried swords, and Peter himself lopped the ear off a city official who came to arrest Jesus. True, some are far more nonviolent than others, and some are death cults that reward followers who kill the most people, like Islam.
Jefferson was directly linked to deism in the writings of some of his contemporaries. Patrick Henry's widow wrote in 1799, "I wish the Grate Jefferson & all the Heroes of the Deistical party could have seen my... Husband pay his last debt to nature."[28][29] Avery Dulles, a leading Catholic theologian, states that while at the College of William & Mary, "under the influence of several professors, he [Jefferson] converted to the deist philosophy".[20] Dulles concludes:If it hasn't been already it should be noted Jefferson was a Deist and was criticized for his beliefs. He coined the phrase "wall of separation between church and state". He is my favorite founding father.
Religious views of Thomas Jefferson - Wikipedia
Jefferson was a Christian; 'Deist' isn't the same as 'atheist', anyway, and he didn't come up with the separation of church and state, the Baptists did: it is one of their three main planks, invented by Thomas Helwys, died in prison under King James in the early 1600's for the 'heresy'. The Baptists along with the other evangelicals of the First and Second Great Awakenings were the reason Jefferson's faction got elected, first to VP and then President, hence his concerns over the Danbury Baptist congregations being concerned over whether he was going to cave to the Federalists and their Anglican sect being made a national church. The establishment clause does not mean the state has to be atheist or non-religious, it just can't make a specific sect the Federal church; Jefferson attended church services in both the Congressional building and the Treasury building in Washington during his Presidency, after all. Many of the states kept their state sponsored churches, along with allowing them power to levy taxes for decades after ratification.
Jefferson was directly linked to deism in the writings of some of his contemporaries. Patrick Henry's widow wrote in 1799, "I wish the Grate Jefferson & all the Heroes of the Deistical party could have seen my... Husband pay his last debt to nature."[28][29] Avery Dulles, a leading Catholic theologian, states that while at the College of William & Mary, "under the influence of several professors, he [Jefferson] converted to the deist philosophy".[20] Dulles concludes:If it hasn't been already it should be noted Jefferson was a Deist and was criticized for his beliefs. He coined the phrase "wall of separation between church and state". He is my favorite founding father.
Religious views of Thomas Jefferson - Wikipedia
Jefferson was a Christian; 'Deist' isn't the same as 'atheist', anyway, and he didn't come up with the separation of church and state, the Baptists did: it is one of their three main planks, invented by Thomas Helwys, died in prison under King James in the early 1600's for the 'heresy'. The Baptists along with the other evangelicals of the First and Second Great Awakenings were the reason Jefferson's faction got elected, first to VP and then President, hence his concerns over the Danbury Baptist congregations being concerned over whether he was going to cave to the Federalists and their Anglican sect being made a national church. The establishment clause does not mean the state has to be atheist or non-religious, it just can't make a specific sect the Federal church; Jefferson attended church services in both the Congressional building and the Treasury building in Washington during his Presidency, after all. Many of the states kept their state sponsored churches, along with allowing them power to levy taxes for decades after ratification.
“ In summary, then, Jefferson was a deist because he believed in one God, in divine providence, in the divine moral law, and in rewards and punishments after death; but did not believe in supernatural revelation. He was a Christian deist because he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion and Jesus as an incomparably great moral teacher. He was not an orthodox Christian because he rejected, among other things, the doctrines that Jesus was the promised Messiah and the incarnate Son of God. Jefferson's religion is fairly typical of the American form of deism in his day. ”
Dulles concurs with historian Stephen Webb, who states that Jefferson's frequent references to "Providence" indicate his Deism, as "most eighteenth-century deists believed in providence"
Also:
Jefferson's metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson's comments "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state.
I am not claiming "atheism carried equal weight and other rubbish". I am claiming Jefferson is instrumental in the "wall" between church and state, and as you can see with the several supreme court cases it is factual.Also:
Jefferson's metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson's comments "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state.
Again, the clause was meant to limit the Federal govt. from establishing a specific denomination, i.e. a church like the Anglican or Congregationalist or Calvinist sect,; it doesn't mean the banning of all mention of Christianity or Christian influence. That would be an absurd claim, given nearly all of the Founders were Christians, despite all the noise about 'Deism' from the less well read, and those trying to peddle the nonsense that atheism carried equal weight and other rubbish. All that nonsense is later spin and propaganda; the entire Declaration and Bill Of Rights and even the separation of powers among three branches of govt. are all lifted from the Bible. Getting rid of Christian influence would have been completely impossible.
And don't even try the gimmick of babbling about Locke and the other Enlightenment philosophers; they all got their points from Christian theology as well. Even Voltaire was a Christian, though there are lots of idiots who think otherwise.
I am not claiming "atheism carried equal weight and other rubbish". I am claiming Jefferson is instrumental in the "wall" between church and state, and as you can see with the several supreme court cases it is factual.Also:
Jefferson's metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson's comments "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state.
Again, the clause was meant to limit the Federal govt. from establishing a specific denomination, i.e. a church like the Anglican or Congregationalist or Calvinist sect,; it doesn't mean the banning of all mention of Christianity or Christian influence. That would be an absurd claim, given nearly all of the Founders were Christians, despite all the noise about 'Deism' from the less well read, and those trying to peddle the nonsense that atheism carried equal weight and other rubbish. All that nonsense is later spin and propaganda; the entire Declaration and Bill Of Rights and even the separation of powers among three branches of govt. are all lifted from the Bible. Getting rid of Christian influence would have been completely impossible.
And don't even try the gimmick of babbling about Locke and the other Enlightenment philosophers; they all got their points from Christian theology as well. Even Voltaire was a Christian, though there are lots of idiots who think otherwise.
