Why Socialism would be very difficult to adopt in the U.S.

[Sun Devil 92]

And a false hope.

But, in reality it has some socialist components.

But is not socialist.

The above, probably stated by a right wing, Reaganomics evangelical.......Go figure.

I suppose there are some who feel Social Security keeps everybody happy.

I have not see that.

Hence, my statement is based more on empirical evidence, not on ideology.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Is Social Security socialism?

There is a socialistic component to it.

But it is not socialism according to the more common definition.

And what is that more common definition?

This is pretty close (from what I know)

Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership and/or social control[1] of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy,[2][3] as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.[4][5] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership (achieved by nationalization), citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.

the next sentence does make this pronouncement:

There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.

Which means what I call "common" really may only mean it is what I am used to.

Can't say.

That's total bullshit. In practice, "social control" always means government control. There simply is no other way for society to control the means of production.

Here's the bottom line: socialism is government control of the means of production. Any other claims are pure moonshine.

You might relax your trigger figure long enough to realize that the definition I provided is a very general statement. It could be applied to a cooperative of any kind.

If you put a government, which can enforce it's will, in the mix...what you say is totally true.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Of course, there are many reasons why socialism is an anathema for many Americans....mostly in the right wing political sphere.

First, we are a nation that spews the rhetoric that we "love peace", but the reality is that we are neo-colonists (the euphemistic term for regime changers) we spend an inordinate amount of tax dollars on defense/offense (just listen to Carly Fiorina's speeches) and any country that has succeeded with socialism seldom indulges in war.

Second, we are so multicultural and multi-ethnical that most middle class (and poorer class) white skinned folks openly state, "I will NEVER be willing to give my hard earned money to those mooching darkies.)

But most of all, we could never easily become "socialists" (although many morons on the right think that Obama has already made us such)...because the term is hugely misunderstood by the uneducated masses who would willingly pay huge amounts of money to some private entity for a particular service, and bitch and moan when taxed by the federal government for that same service.

Interesting post.

I have several issues with it, though.

First, Socialism isn't about process...it's about ends. The same with capitalism.

America is about process as much as it is ends.

There is a big big difference.

You're dead wrong. They are both about process. Capitalism isn't concerned with which products a people want. It's about the best way for the population to get them.

Why would I debate this with you ?

You just said what I did.

"The best way for the population to get the products they want" is about process. You said capitalism is not about process.

You really don't know what you're saying, do you?

I said America was about process.

Capitalism is about process....until people start violating it's basic principles.

 

[OnePercenter]

Is Social Security socialism?

No, it's a Socialist ideal.

And a false hope.

But, in reality it has some socialist components.

But is not socialist.

A false hope? Tell that to all of the baby boomers receiving a check.

Aren't Socialist components Socialist ideals?

 

[OnePercenter]

Is Social Security socialism?

Yes.

That would mean insurance is Socialism.

 

[francoHFW]

Of course, there are many reasons why socialism is an anathema for many Americans....mostly in the right wing political sphere.

First, we are a nation that spews the rhetoric that we "love peace", but the reality is that we are neo-colonists (the euphemistic term for regime changers) we spend an inordinate amount of tax dollars on defense/offense (just listen to Carly Fiorina's speeches) and any country that has succeeded with socialism seldom indulges in war.

Second, we are so multicultural and multi-ethnical that most middle class (and poorer class) white skinned folks openly state, "I will NEVER be willing to give my hard earned money to those mooching darkies.)

But most of all, we could never easily become "socialists" (although many morons on the right think that Obama has already made us such)...because the term is hugely misunderstood by the uneducated masses who would willingly pay huge amounts of money to some private entity for a particular service, and bitch and moan when taxed by the federal government for that same service.

Interesting post.

I have several issues with it, though.

First, Socialism isn't about process...it's about ends. The same with capitalism.

America is about process as much as it is ends.

There is a big big difference.

You're dead wrong. They are both about process. Capitalism isn't concerned with which products a people want. It's about the best way for the population to get them.

Why would I debate this with you ?

You just said what I did.

"The best way for the population to get the products they want" is about process. You said capitalism is not about process.

You really don't know what you're saying, do you?

I said America was about process.

Capitalism is about process....until people start violating it's basic principles.

...which they always will unless socialism makes it fair, and with a safety net. NOT COMMUNISM, dupes.

 

[francoHFW]

Is Social Security socialism?

Yes.

That would mean insurance is Socialism.

gov't insurance, yes. duh

 

[OnePercenter]

Is Social Security socialism?

Yes.

That would mean insurance is Socialism.

gov't insurance, yes. duh

So Social Security is and ACA isn't?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Interesting post.

I have several issues with it, though.

First, Socialism isn't about process...it's about ends. The same with capitalism.

America is about process as much as it is ends.

There is a big big difference.

You're dead wrong. They are both about process. Capitalism isn't concerned with which products a people want. It's about the best way for the population to get them.

Why would I debate this with you ?

You just said what I did.

"The best way for the population to get the products they want" is about process. You said capitalism is not about process.

You really don't know what you're saying, do you?

I said America was about process.

Capitalism is about process....until people start violating it's basic principles.

...which they always will unless socialism makes it fair, and with a safety net. NOT COMMUNISM, dupes.

Fair ????

That's rich.

 

[bripat9643]

Is Social Security socialism?

Yes.

That would mean insurance is Socialism.

That's like saying a robbery is the same as a purchase.

 

[bripat9643]

Is Social Security socialism?

Yes.

That would mean insurance is Socialism.

gov't insurance, yes. duh

It isn't insurance, and it isn't a retirement program.

 

[dblack]

Of course, there are many reasons why socialism is an anathema for many Americans....mostly in the right wing political sphere.

First, we are a nation that spews the rhetoric that we "love peace", but the reality is that we are neo-colonists (the euphemistic term for regime changers) we spend an inordinate amount of tax dollars on defense/offense (just listen to Carly Fiorina's speeches) and any country that has succeeded with socialism seldom indulges in war.

Second, we are so multicultural and multi-ethnical that most middle class (and poorer class) white skinned folks openly state, "I will NEVER be willing to give my hard earned money to those mooching darkies.)

But most of all, we could never easily become "socialists" (although many morons on the right think that Obama has already made us such)...because the term is hugely misunderstood by the uneducated masses who would willingly pay huge amounts of money to some private entity for a particular service, and bitch and moan when taxed by the federal government for that same service.

I can't make heads or tails of your post, but I hope you're right, and that socialism won't be adopted in the US.

 

[francoHFW]

Of course, there are many reasons why socialism is an anathema for many Americans....mostly in the right wing political sphere.

First, we are a nation that spews the rhetoric that we "love peace", but the reality is that we are neo-colonists (the euphemistic term for regime changers) we spend an inordinate amount of tax dollars on defense/offense (just listen to Carly Fiorina's speeches) and any country that has succeeded with socialism seldom indulges in war.

Second, we are so multicultural and multi-ethnical that most middle class (and poorer class) white skinned folks openly state, "I will NEVER be willing to give my hard earned money to those mooching darkies.)

But most of all, we could never easily become "socialists" (although many morons on the right think that Obama has already made us such)...because the term is hugely misunderstood by the uneducated masses who would willingly pay huge amounts of money to some private entity for a particular service, and bitch and moan when taxed by the federal government for that same service.

I can't make heads or tails of your post, but I hope you're right, and that socialism won't be adopted in the US.

We already have socialism, but crap socialism corrupted by the greedy idiot billionaire GOP and their chumps.

 

[dblack]

Of course, there are many reasons why socialism is an anathema for many Americans....mostly in the right wing political sphere.

First, we are a nation that spews the rhetoric that we "love peace", but the reality is that we are neo-colonists (the euphemistic term for regime changers) we spend an inordinate amount of tax dollars on defense/offense (just listen to Carly Fiorina's speeches) and any country that has succeeded with socialism seldom indulges in war.

Second, we are so multicultural and multi-ethnical that most middle class (and poorer class) white skinned folks openly state, "I will NEVER be willing to give my hard earned money to those mooching darkies.)

But most of all, we could never easily become "socialists" (although many morons on the right think that Obama has already made us such)...because the term is hugely misunderstood by the uneducated masses who would willingly pay huge amounts of money to some private entity for a particular service, and bitch and moan when taxed by the federal government for that same service.

I can't make heads or tails of your post, but I hope you're right, and that socialism won't be adopted in the US.

We already have socialism, but crap socialism corrupted by the greedy idiot billionaire GOP and their chumps.

Sad but true. We need to get rid of that.

 

[The Rabbi]

Of course, there are many reasons why socialism is an anathema for many Americans....mostly in the right wing political sphere.

First, we are a nation that spews the rhetoric that we "love peace", but the reality is that we are neo-colonists (the euphemistic term for regime changers) we spend an inordinate amount of tax dollars on defense/offense (just listen to Carly Fiorina's speeches) and any country that has succeeded with socialism seldom indulges in war.

Second, we are so multicultural and multi-ethnical that most middle class (and poorer class) white skinned folks openly state, "I will NEVER be willing to give my hard earned money to those mooching darkies.)

But most of all, we could never easily become "socialists" (although many morons on the right think that Obama has already made us such)...because the term is hugely misunderstood by the uneducated masses who would willingly pay huge amounts of money to some private entity for a particular service, and bitch and moan when taxed by the federal government for that same service.

Is France socialist?
Yes.
Does France intervene in other countries, esp Africa?
Yes.
QED. You are an ill informed moron.

 

[nat4900]

Is France socialist?
Yes.
Does France intervene in other countries, esp Africa?
Yes.
QED. You are an ill informed moron.

Just for fun (and this is not a defense of France because that country too was and is a colonist one)....compare what France spends on armaments vis-a-vis the U.S.

 

[bripat9643]

Yep, the meanings and applications of various words change over time, socialism isn't what it used to be, it is now applied differently. The red scare still affects the idiots though.

What you mean is that commiemscumbags like you are trying to change socialism's image by lying about it.

Err, it doesn't matter what a word used to mean or how you want to apply it to make a point, socialism, in the first world, is used to reference things like universal healthcare, publicly owned railways, etc.. This is how it is applied, if you can't understand that, what a shame. Keep living in fear.

What you mean is that I don't give a damn about socialist propaganda. How words are used determine what they mean, and socialism is an economic term that refers to government control of productive enterprises.

 

[Disir]

Of course, there are many reasons why socialism is an anathema for many Americans....mostly in the right wing political sphere.

First, we are a nation that spews the rhetoric that we "love peace", but the reality is that we are neo-colonists (the euphemistic term for regime changers) we spend an inordinate amount of tax dollars on defense/offense (just listen to Carly Fiorina's speeches) and any country that has succeeded with socialism seldom indulges in war.

Second, we are so multicultural and multi-ethnical that most middle class (and poorer class) white skinned folks openly state, "I will NEVER be willing to give my hard earned money to those mooching darkies.)

But most of all, we could never easily become "socialists" (although many morons on the right think that Obama has already made us such)...because the term is hugely misunderstood by the uneducated masses who would willingly pay huge amounts of money to some private entity for a particular service, and bitch and moan when taxed by the federal government for that same service.

Don't forget that it would be anathema for the Democrats that are corporate whores.

 

[The Rabbi]

Is France socialist?
Yes.
Does France intervene in other countries, esp Africa?
Yes.
QED. You are an ill informed moron.

Just for fun (and this is not a defense of France because that country too was and is a colonist one)....compare what France spends on armaments vis-a-vis the U.S.

Irrelevant. Why not compare what they spend on cheese?
Your thesis is wrong. I just showed that.

 

[nat4900]

Irrelevant. Why not compare what they spend on cheese?
Your thesis is wrong. I just showed that.

You are certainly welcome to stay just as dumb as you are; after all, someone has to set the low bar.