Why Not Legalize Organ Selling?

[Pop23]

And all your snarkiness is supposed to justify a system that currently lets nearly 5,000 people die in the US each year?

I don't think so.

Its not the 'system' that lets people die. Its the selfishness of people who refuse to become organ donors. Change the rules, make the system opt out instead of opt in. Problem solved.

Nope, I think the constitution would be a problem

Opt in, the individual remains in control

Opt out, the government takes control

 

[JimBowie1958]

And all your snarkiness is supposed to justify a system that currently lets nearly 5,000 people die in the US each year?

I don't think so.

Its not the 'system' that lets people die. Its the selfishness of people who refuse to become organ donors. Change the rules, make the system opt out instead of opt in. Problem solved.

Lol, except that this gives an incentive for the hospital to harvest you faster and not check all options first.

There have been people that have awakened as the doctors began harvesting their organs, woops!

not me, babe.

 

[JimBowie1958]

And all your snarkiness is supposed to justify a system that currently lets nearly 5,000 people die in the US each year?

I don't think so.

Its not the 'system' that lets people die. Its the selfishness of people who refuse to become organ donors. Change the rules, make the system opt out instead of opt in. Problem solved.

do you know that it is mostly the affluent people who are organ donors?

and the vast majority of organ donors are either white or asian - almost NEVER black.
Latino - rare.

I suspect you are right, but do you have a link to a source or is this just your personal experience?

 

[HenryBHough]

I've had that little heart symbol on my driving license for about 40 years. These days, should the opportunity arise for anyone to take it to heart, they'd die laughing. Age is a bitch until you consider the alternatives.

 

[Vox]

Its not the 'system' that lets people die. Its the selfishness of people who refuse to become organ donors. Change the rules, make the system opt out instead of opt in. Problem solved.

do you know that it is mostly the affluent people who are organ donors?

and the vast majority of organ donors are either white or asian - almost NEVER black.
Latino - rare.

I suspect you are right, but do you have a link to a source or is this just your personal experience?

organdonor.gov | Why Minority Donors Are Needed

For example, African Americans, Asians and Pacific Islanders, and Hispanics/Latinos are three times more likely than Caucasians to suffer from end-stage renal (kidney) disease, often as the result of high blood pressure and other conditions that can damage the kidneys. Almost 35 percent of the more than 95,000 people on the national waiting list for a kidney transplant are African American.

Although organs are not matched according to race/ethnicity, and people of different races frequently match one another, all individuals waiting for an organ transplant will have a better chance of receiving one if there are large numbers of donors from their racial/ethnic background. This is because compatible blood types and tissue markers—critical qualities for donor/recipient matching—are more likely to be found among members of the same ethnicity. A greater diversity of donors may potentially increase access to transplantation for everyone.

iti's well known issue and for a long time:
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/NNBCZH.pdf
Racial Disparities in Preferences and Perceptions Regarding Organ Donation
Lower consent rates for organ donation found among racial and ethnic minorities and older donors | Agency for Healthcare Research & Quality (AHRQ)

et cetera et cetera et ceteera.

It is a widely known problem.

 

[Noomi]

And all your snarkiness is supposed to justify a system that currently lets nearly 5,000 people die in the US each year?

I don't think so.

Its not the 'system' that lets people die. Its the selfishness of people who refuse to become organ donors. Change the rules, make the system opt out instead of opt in. Problem solved.

Lol, except that this gives an incentive for the hospital to harvest you faster and not check all options first.

There have been people that have awakened as the doctors began harvesting their organs, woops!

not me, babe.

The hospital won't do that. Only the paranoid conservatives would think they would.

 

[Politico]

Oh hell yeah they would. And why should I be forced into a system where I have no control over how they are used? I don't want my lungs ending up in a trash can because they tried to wedge them in a 10 year old.

 

[Noomi]

Oh hell yeah they would. And why should I be forced into a system where I have no control over how they are used? I don't want my lungs ending up in a trash can because they tried to wedge them in a 10 year old.

I think that each organ donor should have the right to decide where their organs go - for example, you should be able to dictate if they go to a smoker, or an alcoholic. Your organs, your choice, even after death, I say.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Its not the 'system' that lets people die. Its the selfishness of people who refuse to become organ donors. Change the rules, make the system opt out instead of opt in. Problem solved.

Lol, except that this gives an incentive for the hospital to harvest you faster and not check all options first.

There have been people that have awakened as the doctors began harvesting their organs, woops!

not me, babe.

The hospital won't do that. Only the paranoid conservatives would think they would.

roflmao, are you ever niave

Horror as patient wakes up in NY hospital with doctors trying to harvest her organs for transplant profits

A woman named Colleen Burns recently opened her eyes to find herself on an operating table in a hospital in Syracuse, NY. Looking around, she noticed that she was the subject of the operation. It turns out doctors were about to harvest her organs and send them to other waiting surgeons who would transplant them into other patients.

This isn't fiction. It was covered by ABC News and several other news sources. It really happened.

And how did it happen? Doctors falsely pronounced her dead by fraudulently claiming she had suffered "cardiopulmonary arrest" and "irreversible brain damage." This gave them the medical justification to start slicing away even while the woman's heart was still beating.

This is a big "holy crap I didn't know that" fact about organ donations: Doctors don't wait until you're really dead. At least not by any normal definition of "dead."

Just Before Organ Harvesting, Comatose Patient Recovers | Daily News | NCRegister.com

AARHUS, Denmark — Carina Melchior is a 20-year-old Danish woman who was plunged in the middle of controversy by two close encounters with death — the first in a car crash last year that put her in a coma; the second in a hospital, where doctors persuaded her parents to donate her organs and shut off her life support.

But Carina recovered, and she now is at the center of a storm of questions about the criteria for brain death, over-aggressive transplant agencies and the commodification of the human body.

What might have been played out quietly in an obscure Danish civil-law courtroom became a national cause célèbre with the airing early in October of a TV documentary called Pigen Der Ikke Ville Do (The Girl Who Refused to Die) that was viewed by 1.7 million people.

The documentary follows the Melchior family as they learn of the seriousness of Carina’s injuries, are told she cannot recover because her brain is dead, and are asked to donate her organs to people who need them.

Carina’s father, Kim Melchior, asks if there is any chance of “a small miracle anywhere.” None, the medical staff at Aarhus University Hospital reply.

But a few days after being taken off her respirator, while hospital attendants are waiting for her body to shut down, Carina began to move her legs and open her eyes.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Dad rescues ?brain dead? son from doctors wishing to harvest his organs ? boy recovers completely

Dad rescues ‘brain dead’ son from doctors wishing to harvest his organs – boy recovers completely

Although a team of four physicians insisted that his son was “brain-dead” following the wreck, Thorpe’s father enlisted the help of a general practitioner and a neurologist, who demonstrated that his son still had brain wave activity. The doctors agreed to bring him out of the coma, and five weeks later Thorpe left the hospital, having almost completely recovered.

Today, the 21-year-old with “brain damage” is studying accounting at a local university. “‘My impression is maybe the hospital weren’t very happy that my father wanted a second opinion,” he told the Mail...

The case is similar to dozens of others LifeSiteNews has reported in recent years, in which comatose or otherwise unconscious patients are declared to be “brain dead,” or hopelessly incurable. In many cases, aggressive doctors seek the organs of the patient for harvesting.

In 2011, the Quebec Hospital Sainte Croix de Drummondville sought permission to extract the eyes of a patient who had choked on hospital food in the absence of a nurse, claiming she was “brain dead.” After the family demanded proof from physicians of her alleged condition, she regained consciousness, and recovered most of her faculties. The family declared its intention to sue the hospital.

In 2008, a 45-year-old Frenchman revived on the operating table as doctors prepared to “harvest” his organs for donation, following cardiac arrest. In the subsequent investigation by the hospital’s ethics committee, a number of doctors admitted that such cases, while rare, were well known to them.

That same year, a “brain dead” 21-year-old American, Zack Dunlap, was about to have his organs harvested when his two sisters, both nurses, decided to test the hospital’s theory that his brain was no longer functioning. Family members poked his feet with a knife and dug their fingernails under his nails, provoking strong reactions by Dunlap and proving he was conscious. He recovered completely. He later related that he was conscious and aware as doctors discussed harvesting his organs in his presence.

The term “brain death” was invented in 1968 to accommodate the need to acquire vital organs in their “freshest” state from a donor who some argue is still very much alive.

While death had previously been defined as lack of respiration and heart activity, “brain death” was judged as compatible with an otherwise living patient. “Brain death” has never been rigorously defined, and there are no standardized tests to determine if the condition exists.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2008/may/08052709

A Virginia family was shocked but relieved when their mother, Val Thomas, woke up after doctors said she was dead. 59 year-old Mrs. Thomas, while being kept breathing artificially, had no detectable brain waves for more than 17 hours. The family were discussing organ donation options for their mother when she suddenly woke up and started speaking to nurses. Ethicists have strongly criticized developments in organ donation criteria that would have made Mrs. Thomas a candidate for having her organs removed before she woke up.

Guess these were all paranoid rightwing extremists, lol.

Oh and to pile ghoulishness on top of ghoulishness, not only are you not necessarily dead, you are not necessarily even unconscious.

Geoffrey Lean: I was in a coma but I could hear every word - Commentators - Voices - The Independent

And since you are legally DEAD, the doctors do not give the donor a sedative while harvesting their organs, lol. You could be in a low level coma, still breathing with very low brain activity, the doctors declare you dead, and then they harvest your organs as you feel every slice of their knives and all the time you cannot even scream.

Now that is a real horror tale, roflmao.

What do you give up when you decide to donate your organs in most states?

What You Lose When You Sign That Organ-Donor Card - WSJ.com

But what are you giving up when you check the donor box on your license? Your organs, of course—but much more. You're also giving up your right to informed consent. Doctors don't have to tell you or your relatives what they will do to your body during an organ harvest operation because you'll be dead, with no legal rights.

The most likely donors are victims of head trauma (from, say, a car or motorcycle accident), spontaneous bleeding in the head, or an aneurysm—patients who can be ruled dead based on brain-death criteria. But brain deaths are estimated to be just around 1% of the total. Everyone else dies from failure of the heart, circulation and breathing, which leads the organs to deteriorate quickly....

The exam for brain death is simple. A doctor splashes ice water in your ears (to look for shivering in the eyes), pokes your eyes with a cotton swab and checks for any gag reflex, among other rudimentary tests. It takes less time than a standard eye exam. Finally, in what's called the apnea test, the ventilator is disconnected to see if you can breathe unassisted. If not, you are brain dead. (Some or all of the above tests are repeated hours later for confirmation.)

Here's the weird part. If you fail the apnea test, your respirator is reconnected. You will begin to breathe again, your heart pumping blood, keeping the organs fresh. Doctors like to say that, at this point, the "person" has departed the body. You will now be called a BHC, or beating-heart cadaver.

Still, you will have more in common biologically with a living person than with a person whose heart has stopped. Your vital organs will function, you'll maintain your body temperature, and your wounds will continue to heal. You can still get bedsores, have heart attacks and get fever from infections.

"I like my dead people cold, stiff, gray and not breathing," says Dr. Michael A. DeVita of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. "The brain dead are warm, pink and breathing."

You might also be emitting brainwaves. Most people are surprised to learn that many people who are declared brain dead are never actually tested for higher-brain activity. The 1968 Harvard committee recommended that doctors use electroencephalography (EEG) to make sure the patient has flat brain waves. Today's tests concentrate on the stalk-like brain stem, in charge of basics such as breathing, sleeping and waking. The EEG would alert doctors if the cortex, the thinking part of your brain, is still active.

But various researchers decided that this test was unnecessary, so it was eliminated from the mandatory criteria in 1971. They reasoned that, if the brain stem is dead, the higher centers of the brain are also probably dead.

But in at least two studies before the 1981 Uniform Determination of Death Act, some "brain-dead" patients were found to be emitting brain waves. One, from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke in the 1970s, found that out of 503 patients who met the usual criteria of brain death, 17 showed activity in an EEG.

I hope you enjoy donating your organs, Noomi.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Oh hell yeah they would. And why should I be forced into a system where I have no control over how they are used? I don't want my lungs ending up in a trash can because they tried to wedge them in a 10 year old.

I think that each organ donor should have the right to decide where their organs go - for example, you should be able to dictate if they go to a smoker, or an alcoholic. Your organs, your choice, even after death, I say.

roflmao

They don't even pay you what your organs are worth while they make millions in the transplant system off those organs.

What in the name of beating-heart cadavers makes you think you could get a choice on who gets them? lol, they cut you up in less than five minutes and within two days all your vitals are in other people.

But then again, most libtards are beating-heart cadavers anyway.

 

[Spiderman]

If a guy wants to sell a kidney to the highest bidder he should be able to. It is his property after all.

 

[Politico]

Oh hell yeah they would. And why should I be forced into a system where I have no control over how they are used? I don't want my lungs ending up in a trash can because they tried to wedge them in a 10 year old.

I think that each organ donor should have the right to decide where their organs go - for example, you should be able to dictate if they go to a smoker, or an alcoholic. Your organs, your choice, even after death, I say.

roflmao

They don't even pay you what your organs are worth while they make millions in the transplant system off those organs.

What in the name of beating-heart cadavers makes you think you could get a choice on who gets them? lol, they cut you up in less than five minutes and within two days all your vitals are in other people.

But then again, most libtards are beating-heart cadavers anyway.

No one with a brain thinks there is a choice. The fact two sets of lungs were wasted on a child proves that. That is why there aren't more donors. But we will all live forever soon so there's no need to worry am I right Bowie?

 

[JimBowie1958]

I think that each organ donor should have the right to decide where their organs go - for example, you should be able to dictate if they go to a smoker, or an alcoholic. Your organs, your choice, even after death, I say.

roflmao

They don't even pay you what your organs are worth while they make millions in the transplant system off those organs.

What in the name of beating-heart cadavers makes you think you could get a choice on who gets them? lol, they cut you up in less than five minutes and within two days all your vitals are in other people.

But then again, most libtards are beating-heart cadavers anyway.

No one with a brain thinks there is a choice. The fact two sets of lungs were wasted on a child proves that. That is why there aren't more donors. But we will all live forever soon so there's no need to worry am I right Bowie?

No, within a ten year or maybe twenty year period we may have achieved indefinite life spans, but everyone will still eventually die. But it might take multiple centuries for most to find that accident that will knock them off.

Eventually we will all still stand before God in Judgement.

 

[MarkyMark]

How can we keep these outdated laws in place? Politicians need to man up and address this issue. A legal market for selling human kidneys could save thousands of lives per year. All parties benefit; an individual in need of money can get the money he needs (to support his family, himself, etc.), and an individual in need of of a life-saving kidney could receive one. With increasing safely of surgery and a constant need of kidney transplant, we need to seriously address the possibilities of a kidney market.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm of the mind that if I want to sell a kidney I should be able to. It is my kidney after all.

 

[MarkyMark]

Oh hell yeah they would. And why should I be forced into a system where I have no control over how they are used? I don't want my lungs ending up in a trash can because they tried to wedge them in a 10 year old.

I think that each organ donor should have the right to decide where their organs go - for example, you should be able to dictate if they go to a smoker, or an alcoholic. Your organs, your choice, even after death, I say.

It sounds like you're endorsing an unfairly quick judge of character. Does a smoker with a family not receive a transplant just because you check a box that says "Not for smokers"?

 

[Katzndogz]

Why not legalize organ theft and sale. Just think of the lives that would be saved.

 

[Chuckt]

And all your snarkiness is supposed to justify a system that currently lets nearly 5,000 people die in the US each year?

I don't think so.

Its not the 'system' that lets people die. Its the selfishness of people who refuse to become organ donors. Change the rules, make the system opt out instead of opt in. Problem solved.

My Father In Law was an organ donor. When he died, they took the organs and there wasn't much body left for a funeral that anyone would want to look at because they took the corneas and tissues.

 

[Chuckt]

If a guy wants to sell a kidney to the highest bidder he should be able to. It is his property after all.

How would you be able to distinguish between legitimate organ donation and co-coerced organ donation?

There was an all female prison in the United States and I remember the guards were having sex with all of the inmates. There is a lot of room for manipulation and coercion of people behind bars and they could essentially sell someone's kidney.

Inmates and Prison Officers in Sex Pandemic in U.S. Jails / Sunday World

Sex trafficking exists in the United States. Making kidney sales legal would only encourage the trafficking in the United States.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Why not legalize organ theft and sale. Just think of the lives that would be saved.

Well, the theft thingy could be a bit of a big deal, you know?