Why labor unions can't win

[Spiderman]

We're a nation in decline, and so of course a great amount of that decline is going to land on the doorstep of the American worker.

You like your two-earner household, where both mother and father have to work to make ends meet, where money issues are the number one family value day in and day out, where working to see that your kids do better than you did is replaced by hoping that they might do as well,

well, keep this up. Cheer it on.

Plenty of people live well and even raise a family on one income.

The problem is that doing so means sacrifice and planning; two things that most Americans refuse to do.

Your refusal to accept reality is not my concern.

btw, Unions have been declining and losing power in this country since the 1960's. My question to all of you who are so happy with that...

when does it start getting better for the American worker?

So you refuse to believe that people can live on one income when there are many who do just that and you say I do not accept reality?

I find that telling.

And the American worker is responsible for himself. i never had any trouble finding enough work to pay my bills.

The problem you people have is that you think that you should only work 40 hours a week and that that one job should be enough to buy a house put 4 kids through college and provide a pension until you die.

If that's not a denial of reality I don't know what is.

Why shouldn't it? Why does life have to be a struggle (for the other guy of course) for conservatives to be happy.

Life is a struggle. It's the struggle that makes us strong. Instead of running from it you should embrace it.

Why do you denigrate the most modest and unselfish of American dreams, i.e., the dream of being able to have a reasonably happy and secure life for yourself and your family??

Where did I denigrate anything? If you think you can buy a house raise a family have 3 cars 4 cell phones a TV in every room put kids through college AND save enough for retirement on one 40 hour a week job screwing in 2 nuts and a bolt on an assembly line you are delusional.

You can have whatever you want and as much of whatever you want but the catch is you have to sacrifice and plan to do it. And let's face the reality here most people do not sacrifice and they do not plan.

In fact most people spend more time planning their 2 week vacation that they can't afford than they do planning their budgets. They reap what they sow and it's no one's fault but their own.

It's a recipe for disaster but it's the favorite of Americans.

What is wrong with you people? Seriously...

There's nothing wrong with me what's wrong with you that you want more than you are willing to work for?

 

[ClosedCaption]

There is no wage stagnation. It is a canard invented by the left to feed class warfare.

Is that the way you deal with everything that disrupts your preconceived ideas? Just pretend it doesnt exist?

Unlike you I dont have to pretend. It is pretty well established that the idea of a "stagnant middle class" is a myth propounded by the Left to feed class envy. There is really no reliable evidence for it.

Is it established or not? "pretty well" doesnt work when the choices are true and false. Link?

 

[The Rabbi]

Is that the way you deal with everything that disrupts your preconceived ideas? Just pretend it doesnt exist?

Unlike you I dont have to pretend. It is pretty well established that the idea of a "stagnant middle class" is a myth propounded by the Left to feed class envy. There is really no reliable evidence for it.

Is it established or not? "pretty well" doesnt work when the choices are true and false. Link?

It's true. I'm not here to do your homework, sonny. Besides, no matter what I posted you'd deflect or misread it. Because you're dumb as a sack of shit.

 

[Bombur]

unlike you i dont have to pretend. It is pretty well established that the idea of a "stagnant middle class" is a myth propounded by the left to feed class envy. There is really no reliable evidence for it.

is it established or not? "pretty well" doesnt work when the choices are true and false. Link?

it's true. I'm not here to do your homework, sonny. Besides, no matter what i posted you'd deflect or misread it. Because you're dumb as a sack of shit.

lol

 

[initforme]

When I owned my construction company I made sure that my workers started out at $20 an hour and after 3 months they got a raise, albeit only 50 cents per hour, but a raise nonetheless. After 3 months I also added 2 extra sick days to the 10 they started off with. They weren't union but I did demand they had a building trades certification from a college otherwise as a college educated worker is unequaled in the business I was in. Now my kid runs it. He has continued on proudly. I had very little turnover due to constant incentives. If you don't do this, you don't deserve to hang onto your best workers. High turnover seeking lowest labor costs = bad bad business practice except in the case of big retail who take advantage of their workers but hey the products are dirt cheap.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Uh, the unions made the workers lazy thus inferior cars. High school dropouts making $50,000/year to build a car aren't going to put out a good product when they know they can't get fired.

The Germans build twice as many cars as the U.S. and pay their workers twice as much because German auto workers are almost 100% unionized.

The secret is to build better cars. Detroit built inferior cars for decades.

It is amazing how brainwashed the right is against anything that will help workers or ordinary people.

How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much - Forbes

There was plenty of sloppy, uncaring work by people who knew they wouldn't get called on it...and more than a little out and out SABOTAGE! (Like having to repaint a few dozen cars after a worker pissed in a paint vat!)

 

[RandomVariable]

The Germans build twice as many cars as the U.S. and pay their workers twice as much because German auto workers are almost 100% unionized.

The secret is to build better cars. Detroit built inferior cars for decades.

It is amazing how brainwashed the right is against anything that will help workers or ordinary people.

How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much - Forbes

Dunce. They get paid more because they are more efficient. The union has nothing to do with that.

This is pretty much what it comes down to. The American worker is not as good as workers in other countries. They don't need protections because they don't deserve them. The American worker is low class and deserves low wages. It is "fair" when one gets what one deserves so obviously the income inequality is "fair". This is what it comes down to, a belief in the American worker, in the American citizen.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Germans build twice as many cars as the U.S. and pay their workers twice as much because German auto workers are almost 100% unionized.

The secret is to build better cars. Detroit built inferior cars for decades.

It is amazing how brainwashed the right is against anything that will help workers or ordinary people.

How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much - Forbes

Dunce. They get paid more because they are more efficient. The union has nothing to do with that.

This is pretty much what it comes down to. The American worker is not as good as workers in other countries. They don't need protections because they don't deserve them. The American worker is low class and deserves low wages. It is "fair" when one gets what one deserves so obviously the income inequality is "fair". This is what it comes down to, a belief in the American worker, in the American citizen.

Sorry not to share your contempt for Americans.
The American worker makes more than workers in most other countries precisely because he is more efficient. They dont need protection because the market will naturally reward them. Of course when gov't steps in and screws with the market then workers gte screwed. But since you dont give a shit about workers or Americans it wont make any difference to you.

 

[RandomVariable]

Dunce. They get paid more because they are more efficient. The union has nothing to do with that.

This is pretty much what it comes down to. The American worker is not as good as workers in other countries. They don't need protections because they don't deserve them. The American worker is low class and deserves low wages. It is "fair" when one gets what one deserves so obviously the income inequality is "fair". This is what it comes down to, a belief in the American worker, in the American citizen.

Sorry not to share your contempt for Americans.
The American worker makes more than workers in most other countries precisely because he is more efficient. They dont need protection because the market will naturally reward them. Of course when gov't steps in and screws with the market then workers gte screwed. But since you dont give a shit about workers or Americans it wont make any difference to you.

If one wants to read a really good book about economics in America they should try, How to Win Friends & Influence People, by Dale Carnegie.

 

[The Rabbi]

This is pretty much what it comes down to. The American worker is not as good as workers in other countries. They don't need protections because they don't deserve them. The American worker is low class and deserves low wages. It is "fair" when one gets what one deserves so obviously the income inequality is "fair". This is what it comes down to, a belief in the American worker, in the American citizen.

Sorry not to share your contempt for Americans.
The American worker makes more than workers in most other countries precisely because he is more efficient. They dont need protection because the market will naturally reward them. Of course when gov't steps in and screws with the market then workers gte screwed. But since you dont give a shit about workers or Americans it wont make any difference to you.

If one wants to read a really good book about economics in America they should try, How to Win Friends & Influence People, by Dale Carnegie.

Aha! I think I see the problem here.

 

[RandomVariable]

Sorry not to share your contempt for Americans.
The American worker makes more than workers in most other countries precisely because he is more efficient. They dont need protection because the market will naturally reward them. Of course when gov't steps in and screws with the market then workers gte screwed. But since you dont give a shit about workers or Americans it wont make any difference to you.

If one wants to read a really good book about economics in America they should try, How to Win Friends & Influence People, by Dale Carnegie.

Aha! I think I see the problem here.

Oh Goodie! You going to let me know what it is?

 

[The Rabbi]

If one wants to read a really good book about economics in America they should try, How to Win Friends & Influence People, by Dale Carnegie.

Aha! I think I see the problem here.

Oh Goodie! You going to let me know what it is?

Yeah, you don't know what economics is, much less anything about it.

 

[RandomVariable]

Aha! I think I see the problem here.

Oh Goodie! You going to let me know what it is?

Yeah, you don't know what economics is, much less anything about it.

Economics where some asshole takes credit for someone else's hard work and gets promoted, right?

 

[Katzndogz]

World wide the American worker is getting a terrible reputation. Not just getting HAS a terrible reputation. The American worker is perceived as being a fat, lazy drug addict or alcoholic who takes a job solely to find a reason to sue the employer.

 

[Katzndogz]

The American worker

Chrysler Forced to Take Back 13 Union Workers Caught Drinking, Seemingly Getting High During Lunch | Video | TheBlaze.com

Remember back in 2010 when 13 Chrysler auto workers got busted drinking and smoking what appeared to be marijuana on the job? Sure you do, it was all over the news.

Unsurprisingly, once news of their “extracurricular” activities made headlines, they were promptly fired by the embarrassed automaker for violating company policy.

But here’s something new: Chrysler has been forced to reinstate all 13 of the disgraced employees. As it turns out, the 13 kicked back against the company’s decision and filed a grievance and entered arbitration.

TSA agent arrested for allegedly stealing $5,000 from passenger's jacket | Fox News

NEW YORK – A Transportation Security Administration agent stole $5,000 in cash from a passenger's jacket as he was going through security at John F. Kennedy International Airport, authorities said Thursday, the latest in a string of thefts that has embarrassed the agency.

Alexandra Schmid took the cash from a Bangladeshi passenger's jacket as it went along an X-ray conveyor belt Wednesday night in Terminal 4, said Al Della Fave, spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey's police force.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh Goodie! You going to let me know what it is?

Yeah, you don't know what economics is, much less anything about it.

Economics where some asshole takes credit for someone else's hard work and gets promoted, right?

Proving my point. Again.

 

[Plasmaball]

Is it just a coincidence that those graphs in the OP are eerily similar to wage stagnation and income mobility graphs for the same period. The Oligarchs are the only ones winning. Pitting the middle class against each other while they enjoy massive proffits.

There is no wage stagnation. It is a canard invented by the left to feed class warfare.

Oh how you lie constantly for your side

 

[Ame®icano]

And that's proof that one is caused by the other?

You know, back in 40's, scientist noticed higher number of polio cases in summer and since consumption of ice cream was also higher in summer, guess what was the verdict? That polio is caused by ice cream...

Let's add another line to your chart and it will be easy to prove that lower union membership causes global warming. Oops sorry, climate change. Good enough reason for lefties to fight it.

 

[RandomVariable]

Yeah, you don't know what economics is, much less anything about it.

Economics where some asshole takes credit for someone else's hard work and gets promoted, right?

Proving my point. Again.

You can quote me all yor book learnin' ya want but the truth is where the rubber meets the road. There are two divisions in a company, production and sales. Putting all the money into production but not sales will get a loading dock full of great product. Putting all the money in sales and there is a line at the front door for a product that does not exist. Right now this is a country of sales, of the banks. We are not putting profits, i.e. taxes, back into the business but rather just paying sales commission, tax breaks to banks. Another aspect of sales is pay. Some salespeople work for pure commission. For those who have the Carnegie touch the world is their oyster. For those who can not Death of a Salesman is their fate. The shop floor does not work that way. People start at the bottom and they work long and hard at their skill, working their way up on skill and taking responsibility. Through good times and bad they are protected. It is easy enough to teach a new sales person how to sell a different widget but a good production person might take two decades to hone. Production requires tools and training. America used to be the greatest nation in the world. For a while we could still sell that image. People are beginning to see we let our production go a long time ago. Or at least so says the ghost of Christmas future.

 

[dannyboys]

The US is headed towards complete economic collapse.
The Chinese will come in and pick up the pieces. And the 'middle class' won't be.
Hourly wages will be based on what you are worth to your master. Just like it is now in China.
The Chinese will have conquered the entire economy of the world within fifty years without spending money on a single bullet.
Look who basically owns all of Africa's resources today. The Africans are back in slavery only it's called a different name now. That slavery is the American workers destiny. Nothing will prevent this from happening. It's already started.
Imagine if 'Mr. Lee' from China came knocking on Obama's door today: I'm here to pick up a certified cheque for the 1.6 Trillion dollars you owe China. You say it's already in the mail? OK. I'll just wait here until it arrives back home and they give me a call".
When 'Mr. Lee' comes calling in twenty years it will be for the keys to the White house.
There is only one single reason why America is doomed financially hence socially. Read the following phrase very slowly so it will sink in: "The Culture of Entitlement" AKA too many Americans honestly believe that by the virtue of being an 'American' they are 'entitled' to live beyond their means and some one will bail them out.
The days when a grade nine could drop out of school and go work at a union run factory making over priced blue jeans and afford to buy a house and juggle a dozen credit cards. 'Take out' every Friday night. Two cars. A family holiday. 'His and her' toys. Union guaranteed full family dental and medical and full retirement pension and if the old man kicks off the surviving wife keeps getting the full pension until she kicks off are as they say OVER. Forever and ever amen.
In a decade: "Daddy. What was a 'credit card'? What's a home? What was 'take-out? Did you ever own a new car? Was there a place called Disneyland?".
CULTURE OF ENTITLEMENT > 100% guaranteed financial/social collapse.
If you want a 'heads-up' about what your average 'workers'(plural b/c everyone in the family will be designated as 'worker') will be living like in Boise in fifty years go visit the town of Dacitan.