Why labor unions can't win

[RandomVariable]

Unions eventually stab you in the back.

They sell you a good game and for a while they get away with winning you unearned wages, pensions, vacations and numerous other unearned perks, but the inevitable always happens:

They negotiate and demand until you have no job left, while the union executives dine and wine with the President and pad their bank accounts.

And that is the ultimate betrayal.

Yeah, because the 1%ers will give you those things unbidden...

Unions have failed to keep up with the times, and have failed to stress their important to average working people.

That said, we are going to get to a breaking point where the wealthy have drivenwages down so far that people can't cope, even working two or three jobs.

Wages are higher now than ever. Fail.
The 1%ers (whoever they are) do not give things. No one gives things, unless it's charity, which you seem to equate with jobs. Managers pay what they need to pay in order to attract the talent they need for the job. The market forces wages, not gov't. You haven't figured that out yet because you've never done an honest day's work in your life.

And when the market provides children to fill those jobs who is the government to say otherwise?

 

[The T]

Yeah, because the 1%ers will give you those things unbidden...

Unions have failed to keep up with the times, and have failed to stress their important to average working people.

That said, we are going to get to a breaking point where the wealthy have drivenwages down so far that people can't cope, even working two or three jobs.

Wages are higher now than ever. Fail.
The 1%ers (whoever they are) do not give things. No one gives things, unless it's charity, which you seem to equate with jobs. Managers pay what they need to pay in order to attract the talent they need for the job. The market forces wages, not gov't. You haven't figured that out yet because you've never done an honest day's work in your life.

And when the market provides children to fill those jobs who is the government to say otherwise?

Nice try at distraction. There are LAWS that prohibit that. Try again.

 

[The T]

Private sector unions are fine if the workers want them. Public sector unions should be illegal.

Excerpt of a letter sent to Luther C. Steward, President of the National Federation of Federal Employees, of August 16, 1937.

_______________________________________________

My dear Mr. Steward:


As I am unable to accept your kind invitation to be present on the occasion of the Twentieth Jubilee Convention of the National Federation of Federal Employees, I am taking this method of sending greetings and a message.
Reading your letter of July 14, 1937, I was especially interested in the timeliness of your remark that the manner in which the activities of your organization have been carried on during the past two decades "has been in complete consonance with the best traditions of public employee relationships." Organizations of Government employees have a logical place in Government affairs.

The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.

All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.

Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government."

_________________________________

Agreed.

_____________________

LINK

A couple of points, T....

1. It was another Democrat who allowed unionization of public employees.

True.

2. In NYC, public unions operate under the Taylor Law. It works like this: the city collects union dues per paycheck, and sends the money to the unions.

If any strike, they forfeit this process, called 'check-off'....and would have to appeal to the members to send in their dues by themselves.
Know what that means? They don't get the dues.

There are more serious penalties, too....jail for union leaders, loss of tenure/seniority....

Interesting. Not heard/read this. Thanks.

3. Back to my premise: it is the politicians who need be held responsible for give-aways.

Agreed. Very informative. Thanks.

 

[Spiderman]

We're a nation in decline, and so of course a great amount of that decline is going to land on the doorstep of the American worker.

You like your two-earner household, where both mother and father have to work to make ends meet, where money issues are the number one family value day in and day out, where working to see that your kids do better than you did is replaced by hoping that they might do as well,

well, keep this up. Cheer it on.

Plenty of people live well and even raise a family on one income.

The problem is that doing so means sacrifice and planning; two things that most Americans refuse to do.

Your refusal to accept reality is not my concern.

btw, Unions have been declining and losing power in this country since the 1960's. My question to all of you who are so happy with that...

when does it start getting better for the American worker?

So you refuse to believe that people can live on one income when there are many who do just that and you say I do not accept reality?

I find that telling.

And the American worker is responsible for himself. i never had any trouble finding enough work to pay my bills.

The problem you people have is that you think that you should only work 40 hours a week and that that one job should be enough to buy a house put 4 kids through college and provide a pension until you die.

If that's not a denial of reality I don't know what is.

 

[NYcarbineer]

We're a nation in decline, and so of course a great amount of that decline is going to land on the doorstep of the American worker.

You like your two-earner household, where both mother and father have to work to make ends meet, where money issues are the number one family value day in and day out, where working to see that your kids do better than you did is replaced by hoping that they might do as well,

well, keep this up. Cheer it on.

Plenty of people live well and even raise a family on one income.

The problem is that doing so means sacrifice and planning; two things that most Americans refuse to do.

Plenty of people live well and even raise a family on one income.

The problem is that doing so means sacrifice and planning; two things that most Americans refuse to do.

Your refusal to accept reality is not my concern.

btw, Unions have been declining and losing power in this country since the 1960's. My question to all of you who are so happy with that...

when does it start getting better for the American worker?

So you refuse to believe that people can live on one income when there are many who do just that and you say I do not accept reality?

I find that telling.

And the American worker is responsible for himself. i never had any trouble finding enough work to pay my bills.

The problem you people have is that you think that you should only work 40 hours a week and that that one job should be enough to buy a house put 4 kids through college and provide a pension until you die.

If that's not a denial of reality I don't know what is.

Why shouldn't it? Why does life have to be a struggle (for the other guy of course) for conservatives to be happy.

Why do you denigrate the most modest and unselfish of American dreams, i.e., the dream of being able to have a reasonably happy and secure life for yourself and your family??

What is wrong with you people? Seriously...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Wages are higher now than ever. Fail.
The 1%ers (whoever they are) do not give things. No one gives things, unless it's charity, which you seem to equate with jobs. Managers pay what they need to pay in order to attract the talent they need for the job. The market forces wages, not gov't. You haven't figured that out yet because you've never done an honest day's work in your life.

And when the market provides children to fill those jobs who is the government to say otherwise?

Nice try at distraction. There are LAWS that prohibit that. Try again.

The GOVERNMENT made those laws. You people want the government out of business.

 

[RandomVariable]

Wages are higher now than ever. Fail.
The 1%ers (whoever they are) do not give things. No one gives things, unless it's charity, which you seem to equate with jobs. Managers pay what they need to pay in order to attract the talent they need for the job. The market forces wages, not gov't. You haven't figured that out yet because you've never done an honest day's work in your life.

And when the market provides children to fill those jobs who is the government to say otherwise?

Nice try at distraction. There are LAWS that prohibit that. Try again.

Oh, that was such a good try. I'll give you a little help here. The word begins with an 'r' but is definitely NOT republican.

 

[Chris]

The Germans build twice as many cars as the U.S. and pay their workers twice as much because German auto workers are almost 100% unionized.

The secret is to build better cars. Detroit built inferior cars for decades.

It is amazing how brainwashed the right is against anything that will help workers or ordinary people.

How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much - Forbes

 

[The Rabbi]

Wages are higher now than ever. Fail.
The 1%ers (whoever they are) do not give things. No one gives things, unless it's charity, which you seem to equate with jobs. Managers pay what they need to pay in order to attract the talent they need for the job. The market forces wages, not gov't. You haven't figured that out yet because you've never done an honest day's work in your life.

And when the market provides children to fill those jobs who is the government to say otherwise?

Nice try at distraction. There are LAWS that prohibit that. Try again.

Red herring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The Rabbi]

The Germans build twice as many cars as the U.S. and pay their workers twice as much because German auto workers are almost 100% unionized.

The secret is to build better cars. Detroit built inferior cars for decades.

It is amazing how brainwashed the right is against anything that will help workers or ordinary people.

How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much - Forbes

Dunce. They get paid more because they are more efficient. The union has nothing to do with that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

 

[RandomVariable]

And when the market provides children to fill those jobs who is the government to say otherwise?

Nice try at distraction. There are LAWS that prohibit that. Try again.

Red herring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't believe you took all that effort to make that reply. Then again... just when things are getting good I have to run out. Keep that thought, you might not have another one.

 

[The Rabbi]

Nice try at distraction. There are LAWS that prohibit that. Try again.

Red herring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't believe you took all that effort to make that reply. Then again... just when things are getting good I have to run out. Keep that thought, you might not have another one.

It's a non issue for all sorts of reasons. Do you really think parents would rush to put their kids in dangerous factories to earn $2/day if there weren't laws against it?

 

[The T]

Red herring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't believe you took all that effort to make that reply. Then again... just when things are getting good I have to run out. Keep that thought, you might not have another one.

It's a non issue for all sorts of reasons. Do you really think parents would rush to put their kids in dangerous factories to earn $2/day if there weren't laws against it?

Boggles the mind, doesn't it? Some people live in the past.

 

[The Rabbi]

I can't believe you took all that effort to make that reply. Then again... just when things are getting good I have to run out. Keep that thought, you might not have another one.

It's a non issue for all sorts of reasons. Do you really think parents would rush to put their kids in dangerous factories to earn $2/day if there weren't laws against it?

Boggles the mind, doesn't it? Some people live in the past.

They think if there weren't restrictive laws suddenly society would revert to the 1600s, like the last 300+ years never happened.

 

[The T]

It's a non issue for all sorts of reasons. Do you really think parents would rush to put their kids in dangerous factories to earn $2/day if there weren't laws against it?

Boggles the mind, doesn't it? Some people live in the past.

They think if there weren't restrictive laws suddenly society would revert to the 1600s, like the last 300+ years never happened.

What they LACK is a sense of responsibility, personal responsibility. They are control freaks and just can't let people run their own lives. Arrogance is their deep-seated friend.

 

[1776]

Uh, the unions made the workers lazy thus inferior cars. High school dropouts making $50,000/year to build a car aren't going to put out a good product when they know they can't get fired.

The Germans build twice as many cars as the U.S. and pay their workers twice as much because German auto workers are almost 100% unionized.

The secret is to build better cars. Detroit built inferior cars for decades.

It is amazing how brainwashed the right is against anything that will help workers or ordinary people.

How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much - Forbes

 

[ClosedCaption]

Is it just a coincidence that those graphs in the OP are eerily similar to wage stagnation and income mobility graphs for the same period. The Oligarchs are the only ones winning. Pitting the middle class against each other while they enjoy massive proffits.

There is no wage stagnation. It is a canard invented by the left to feed class warfare.

Is that the way you deal with everything that disrupts your preconceived ideas? Just pretend it doesnt exist?

 

[The Rabbi]

Is it just a coincidence that those graphs in the OP are eerily similar to wage stagnation and income mobility graphs for the same period. The Oligarchs are the only ones winning. Pitting the middle class against each other while they enjoy massive proffits.

There is no wage stagnation. It is a canard invented by the left to feed class warfare.

Is that the way you deal with everything that disrupts your preconceived ideas? Just pretend it doesnt exist?

Unlike you I dont have to pretend. It is pretty well established that the idea of a "stagnant middle class" is a myth propounded by the Left to feed class envy. There is really no reliable evidence for it.

 

[Bombur]

There is no wage stagnation. It is a canard invented by the left to feed class warfare.

Is that the way you deal with everything that disrupts your preconceived ideas? Just pretend it doesnt exist?

Unlike you I dont have to pretend. It is pretty well established that the idea of a "stagnant middle class" is a myth propounded by the Left to feed class envy. There is really no reliable evidence for it.