Why Judaism and Christianity reject Koran

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Bigmo, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. Bigmo
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    Bigmo Member

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    Its all about Jesus

    There has been many discussions by Jews and Christians regarding the Koran. In recent times there has been an emphasis on Koran and violence and Koran and freedom and Koran and women. Although I have dealt with the issue of violence and freedom in my other posts, I will talk about another issue which I think is absolutely crucial in understanding why the Jews and Christians can never accept the Koran. There are of cource many other reasons why people question the Koran, and certainly in the history and current reality of many adherents of the so called Islamic faith do raise issues regarding frredom and women and violence. But my main concern is about these two religious traditions and why the real issues that seperate them from the Koran are rarely highlited.

    Though these two religions reject each other and are odds with one another but they do have one thing in common regarding the Koran. My purpose here is to explain the role of Jesus in shaping the attitude these two religioons have regarding the Koran.

    Those who pay attention can notice that there is constant attempt by Christians, and here I mean the orthodoxy, to paint Islam as somehow different from either Christianity or even Judaism. Muhammad is never compared with any of the prophets you read in the Bible. There is always an attempt even to distance themselves from the God of the Koran. The reality is these differences they try to propagate are fakes. Because the real difference and point of contention between the Koran and these two religions is on what they believe about Jesus and what the Koran says about Jesus. Both these religious traditions could never accept the Jesus reality as presented in the Koran. Once again these are not the only issues, but as a Koranist who does not confirm to Sunni/Shia sectarianism, my intention is to highlight their rejection of the Koran. I will show how regardless of any other issues, the Jesus of the Koran stand in stark contradiction to the central theological core of these two faiths, Judaism and Christianity as practiced and understood by the orthodoxies.

    The Koran says it came to confirm the previous scriptures:

    5.46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.

    "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).

    2.41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

    2.89 And when there comes to them a Book from God, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognized, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of God is on those without Faith.

    If the Koran came to confirm the Torah and Gospel and speaks of them as Divine revelations, why would both the Jews and Christians have a serious problem with the Koran? The answer is Jesus.

    The Christian orthodoxy is built around the divinity of Jesus, and the Jewsih orthodoxy is built on the awaiting of the Messiah and their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah and indeed of his miraculous birth. Although these are not the only issues the orthodoxies are structured around, without them the orthodoxy can not maintain itself as it is.

    So what does the Koran say about Jesus?

    When the angel said, "Mary, God gives you a good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, -high honoured shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be, "lord" said Mary "How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has touched me? "Even so, he said "God creates what He will". When he decrees a thing He but say to it, "Be", and it is. (Al-Imran 3:45-47)

    "Then she brought the child to her folk, carrying him, and they said, "Mary, you have surely committed a monstrous thing. Sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, nor your mother a woman unchaste. Mary pointed to the child; but they said, 'Hoe shall we speak to one who still in the cradle, a little child. And he said, 'Lo, I am God's servant, God has given me the Book and made me a Prophet Blessed He has made me ,wherever/may be; and He has enjoined me to prayer, and to give the alms so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not made me arrogant and wicked. Peace be upon me, the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised up alive. "Maryam 19:29-33)

    5.110.Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

    This will be absolutely rejected by the Jewish Rabbis. This not only confirms the miraculous birth of Jesus but also confirms he was the awaited messiah as promised in the Hebrew Bible. The Jews rejected Jesus and still do and these verses alone are more than enough to convince the Judaic orthodoxy to reject the Koran outright. Nothing stands against the Judaic orthodoxy more than these verses.

    As far as the Christian orthodoxy:


    "And they say, The All-Merciful has taken unto Himself a son. You have indeed advanced something hideous. As if the skies are about to burst, the earth to split asunder and its mountain to fall down in the utter ruin for that they have attributed to the All-merciful a son; and behaves not the All-merciful to take a son. None there in the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant" (Maryam 19:88-93)

    Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then He said upon him, 'Be' and he was. (Al-Imran 3:59)

    People of the Book, do not go beyond the bounds in your religion, and say nought as to God but the Truth. The messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the messenger of God, and his word that he committed to Mary, and a spirit originating from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not 'Three'. Refrain, better is for you. God is only one God. Glory be to him-that He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the Heavens and in the Earth; God suffices for a guardian.(4.171)

    This is of course in stark contrast and indeed a denounciation of the Christian orthodoxy which is structured on the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity. These verses alone completely nullifies that orthodoxy in its core theological understanding.

    So both these religions can not accept that Jesus was the awaited Messiah born of a miraculous nature but yet human and completely unassociated physically with the Almighty. Yet these issues are never discussed and distractions are usually presented. of course these are not the only issues since Islam has a sectarian component as represented by the Sunni/Shia religions which rely on oral traditions, known as hadiths, that dominate their religions and in many cases contradict the Koran. But the verses I presented today I am sure will clearly indicate that the verses about Jesus in the Koran by itself is enough for the Judiac and Christian orthodoxy to reject the Koran outright.

    So there you have it.
     
  2. Mr.Fitnah
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    Mr.Fitnah Dreamcrusher

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    Im not going to waste my time refuting this garbage with Islamic Scripture unless I am specifically asked to.
     
  3. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Religions do not reject each other.

    People of faith reject religions other than their own.
     
  4. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    You have just demonstrated your massive ignorance. I do not even need to think to prove you wrong, anyone over the age of 2 could do it.

    The Jews do not believe Jesus was a prophet, which is why they reject Christianity entirely. Jews and Christians do not believe Muhammad was a prophet, which is why they reject Islam.

    It is not about Jesus, it is about Muhammad.

    Children should be seen and not heard.
     
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  5. Hister
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    Why Judaism and Christianity reject Koran: They prefer to use toilet paper.
     
  6. rhet 2
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    rhet 2 Member

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    Point well taken, IMO.

    Except that I think it IS about Jesus AND about Mo AND about the rabbis who wrote Oral Torah in contradiction to Written Torah -- Jewish traditions dictated by the Sanhedrin and men who claimed the authority of priests vs. the written text itself: who do we believe? Three sets of claimed authority -- and they DO contradict each other -- so which one of those claims do we accept and adhere to?

    When Christ asked Peter, Who do you say I am, the answer to that question is the ROCK upon which all Christians must stand. That is the chasm that separates us as surely as the uncrossable chasm between the Bosom of Abraham and the waterless desert of despair in Sheol.

    I can no more accept Mo as a prophet -- because he contradicts Christ's own self-proclaimed deity AND His humanity -- commanding that which is FORBIDDEN by Christ WHO IS GOD -- than I could fall on my face and worship Satan.

    I can no more accept the teachings of the rabbis -- which DO contradict Written Torah -- than I can accept the teachings of Mo.

    From Gen. 1:1 through the last jot and tittle on the last page of Malachi, that is the Word of God Himself. God is not a liar, not a cheat, not a deceiver and not a trickster, nor a con artist -- nor is he a weakling that just cannot stop crap from happening. He MUST be the Truth -- because what GOD says BECOMES the Truth -- and He must have the power to open human eyes and REVEAL His Truth to all mankind so that we CAN understand enough of the truth to accept and submit to His Supremacy.

    No contradictions in the Word of GOD. Because what HE speaks happens, what HE speaks IS THE TRUTH.

    So, the question then is how do I come to understand HIS TRUTH?

    Everything from Gen.1:1 to Malachi 4:3 speaks to a single TRUTH -- there will be a King of Judea -- he must be GOD Himself (for example, Zephaniah 3:15, "The LORD has taken away your judgments, he has cast out your enemy, the King of Israel, the LORD, in the midst of you: you shall not see evil any more") and he MUST be a direct blood heir of David at one and the same time. Because that is His Claim to the Throne of God, to rule over all humanity and all things physical in this universe.

    The second Mo proclaimed himself a greater prophet than the WORD of GOD HIMSELF, he proclaimed himself a liar, a cheat, a manipulator and twister of the truth to deceive men into worshiping that which is FALSE and condemned by the God Who spoke to Abraham and gave Moses TRUTH written -- WRITTEN -- by the Hand of the ONE Who IS, WAS, and ever SHALL BE the Almighty Creator and Ruler over the reality of this universe.

    "I am the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life: no man comes unto the Father except through Me." This is the divider between Judaism and Islam and Christianity.

    Who do we say Jesus is?
     
  7. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    Jesus has nothing to do with judaism at all.

    (yes, i'm agreeing with you).
     
  8. rhet 2
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    rhet 2 Member

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    Disagree respectfully.

    Jesus is the fulfillment and completion -- the perfection of Judaism.

    Because He IS, Judaism is no longer required, no longer relevant in the real world, post-Resurrection.

    He completes the Law, fulfills the Law, IS the Law, ergo the Law is completed, it's purpose achieved -- past tense, over and done with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
  9. jillian
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    not to us, he doesn't. he didn't fulfill the prophesies.

    the reasons for judaism rejecting islam have nothing to do with your own religious beliefs.

    judaism doesn't need perfecting by what YOU believe.

    you don't see a problem with what you just said?

    see.,... this is why i have no patience for your brand of christian.
     
  10. rhet 2
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    rhet 2 Member

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    Those who reject, reject. It is their choice, protected by the ONE Who Is.

    It is not what I believe that Judaism rejects. Judaism rejects the claims of Jesus. Regardless of my acceptance or my rejection. My acceptance does NOT affect others. And acceptance does not validate the claims of Jesus. Rejection does not invalidate the claims of Jesus, either.

    If it were a matter of personal acceptance or rejection, so that popularity -- the numbers of people who accept or reject -- COULD dethrone the Christ, then He is NOT the Christ at all.

    It is NOT the word of man that puts Christ on His Throne. It is the Word of God that validates or invalidates the word of man -- and it is HIS WORD that puts Him on that Throne. My acceptance or rejection CANNOT affect HIS WORD at all.

    Because my acceptance or rejection is a non-issue.

    The issue is HIS acceptance or rejection of me -- not mine of Him.

    Shall I center my existence on the words of men -- or shall I center my existence on the WORD of the LORD?

    Shall I trust in men -- or shall I trust in the LORD?

    "What is man that YOU are mindful of him?"

    And WHAT is beyond the Will of GOD that whatever He SPEAKS shall not become as HE wills?

    If I am wrong, is HE not able and willing to correct me and lead me to the Paths of Righteousness which I seek?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010

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