Why is it Necessary to Mislead

[ogibillm]

A budget is a budget you moron. The only difference in a household or business budget and the government budget is the scope.

your personal and/or business budget does not have the same relationship with the economy at large as the federal government budget.

as such each operates under different rules. they are not the same.

go read another bumper sticker.

 

[g5000]

The poor doesn't pay federal taxes. Hell 47 percent of Americans don't pay federal income tax.

You want to know the facts? In California there are damn near more people living off the government than there are people working. How long do you think that can go on?

"The poor doesn't pay federal taxes." Nice grammar.

You want to know the facts? Anyone who earns a paycheck pays federal taxes. Look at your pay stub and learn something new.

Remember all the recent bitching about Obama raising taxes on 77 percent of Americans? Isn't it hilarious that doublethink did not conflict with the piss drinkers' belief that 47% of Americans don't pay federal taxes?

I tell ya, you guys are just too easy. It's like you don't think beyond 30 seconds ago.

Typical liberal idiot.

Can't argue against the facts so lets attack the grammar.

Federal taxes that they get back at the end of the year. So are you really paying?NOOOOOOOOOO

BTW I do pay federal taxes!

Now your confusing payroll taxes that did go up on everyone with federal income tax.

Give it a break, You have no clue what your talking or even arguing about.

I'm not a liberal, I'm an old school conservative. I'm here to clean our house.

You said "federal taxes". Look, it's right there in front of you. You didn't say, "The poor doesn't pay federal income taxes."

EVERYONE who earns a paycheck pays federal taxes. Fact.

And the payroll tax returned to what it was before Obama came along. He gave you a two year tax break, and what thanks did he get from you piss drinkers when he lowered them?

None. Not a word.

But when the holiday expired, oh look at how you moaned about him increasing your taxes! BWA-HA-HA!

You use the "doesn't pay federal taxes" meme only when it suits you. 47% don't pay federal [whisper]income[/whisper] taxes. Obama raised taxes on 77% of Americans! I can see what you did there.

Hey, down here at Misinformation Central we love you guys. Keep up the good work!

 

[Skull Pilot]

The average tax burden for US citizens is misleading since nearly 50% of people with income pay no income tax and some of them actually pay a net negative tax meaning they get back all the income tax deducted from their pay plus more.

Using top marginal rates is not a good measure either.

The only true measure is the net effective taxation rate which is function of the taxes you actually pay, not your marginal tax bracket, and your gross income.

Tax Freedom Day ® | Tax Foundation

and the income tax is only ONE tax

some wealthy people pay no income tax

All taxes need to be included. I assumed that point but I should have noted it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A budget is a budget you moron. The only difference in a household or business budget and the government budget is the scope.

There is a difference of kind as well as degree. No, a government is not analogous to a family budget. That you think otherwise demonstrates you have no grasp of what is happening.

 

[NYcarbineer]

in order to support one's position? USA Today published at chart purporting to show that the U.S. top income tax rate of 35% (now 39.6%) is substantially lower than those of France and Germany (45%) or Great Britain (50%). What was conveniently omitted from this chart was that the other countries' rates include social security and health care, whereas ours does not (nor does it include state income tax rates). When ALL of our taxes are added in, we are one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world. but that fact would spoil their dishonest narrative.

What rate is the U. S. VAT tax?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The average tax burden for US citizens is misleading since nearly 50% of people with income pay no income tax and some of them actually pay a net negative tax meaning they get back all the income tax deducted from their pay plus more.

Using top marginal rates is not a good measure either.

The only true measure is the net effective taxation rate which is function of the taxes you actually pay, not your marginal tax bracket, and your gross income.

Tax Freedom Day ® | Tax Foundation

and the income tax is only ONE tax

some wealthy people pay no income tax

All taxes need to be included. I assumed that point but I should have noted it.

at USMB assume at your own risk

 

[Lonestar_logic]

you have a bumper-sticker understanding of economics.

Economics is fairly simple. You cannot spend money you do not have. You cannot keep borrowing from your grandchildren and not expect repercussions.

That is precisely what you can call a bumber-sticker understanding of economics. For example, the US government had in fact kept borrowing since 1779, and its debt was growing exponentially for the past 200 years. That never is a problem because the US economy was also growing exponentially, and faster than the debt.

So yes you can keep borrowing from your grandchildren forever. Not to mention that the government debt is owned by the very grandchildren above.

Keep thinking you can borrow and borrow and borrow.

Some idiots actually believe that but it's not the general consensus.

 

[ilia25]

Tell me whan has the private sector ever stopped spending?

Where have you been the past 5 years? The single reason the US economy is weak is because the private sector had cut on spending after the big scare in 2008. And it keeps saving as much as it can.

Four years and NO BUDGET??

Every cent that the government spend is explicitly authorized by Congress. If that is not a budget, I don't know what is.

If you want details, go ahead:
2012 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So now "cut" means "stopped"?

Read the whole thread, you moron -- nobody talked about a full stop but you.

The private sector caused the recession by reducing its spending. Ideally, the government then has to offset those cuts by increasing its own expenditures. At the very least it should not engage in the austerity on its own, like UK Conservatives did -- because it would only make matters worse.

Authorizing spending is not creating a budget, doofus!

But it does mean that the government IS on a budget -- always was and always will be.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

A budget is a budget you moron. The only difference in a household or business budget and the government budget is the scope.

your personal and/or business budget does not have the same relationship with the economy at large as the federal government budget.

as such each operates under different rules. they are not the same.

go read another bumper sticker.

It still operates under the same basic principle. I understand the constraints and the scope or not the same and I made that distinction. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Perhaps you'd be better served reading bumper stickers.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

"The poor doesn't pay federal taxes." Nice grammar.

You want to know the facts? Anyone who earns a paycheck pays federal taxes. Look at your pay stub and learn something new.

Remember all the recent bitching about Obama raising taxes on 77 percent of Americans? Isn't it hilarious that doublethink did not conflict with the piss drinkers' belief that 47% of Americans don't pay federal taxes?

I tell ya, you guys are just too easy. It's like you don't think beyond 30 seconds ago.

Typical liberal idiot.

Can't argue against the facts so lets attack the grammar.

Federal taxes that they get back at the end of the year. So are you really paying?NOOOOOOOOOO

BTW I do pay federal taxes!

Now your confusing payroll taxes that did go up on everyone with federal income tax.

Give it a break, You have no clue what your talking or even arguing about.

I'm not a liberal, I'm an old school conservative. I'm here to clean our house.

You said "federal taxes". Look, it's right there in front of you. You didn't say, "The poor doesn't pay federal income taxes."

EVERYONE who earns a paycheck pays federal taxes. Fact.

And the payroll tax returned to what it was before Obama came along. He gave you a two year tax break, and what thanks did he get from you piss drinkers when he lowered them?

None. Not a word.

But when the holiday expired, oh look at how you moaned about him increasing your taxes! BWA-HA-HA!

You use the "doesn't pay federal taxes" meme only when it suits you. 47% don't pay federal [whisper]income[/whisper] taxes. Obama raised taxes on 77% of Americans! I can see what you did there.

Hey, down here at Misinformation Central we love you guys. Keep up the good work!

No, you're a liberal. But hey I don't blame you for being too ashamed or too embarrassed to admit it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

A budget is a budget you moron. The only difference in a household or business budget and the government budget is the scope.

There is a difference of kind as well as degree. No, a government is not analogous to a family budget. That you think otherwise demonstrates you have no grasp of what is happening.

Ok once again for you idiot liberals I acknowledged a difference.

 

[Too Tall]

in order to support one's position? USA Today published at chart purporting to show that the U.S. top income tax rate of 35% (now 39.6%) is substantially lower than those of France and Germany (45%) or Great Britain (50%). What was conveniently omitted from this chart was that the other countries' rates include social security and health care, whereas ours does not (nor does it include state income tax rates). When ALL of our taxes are added in, we are one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world. but that fact would spoil their dishonest narrative.

hmmmmm..... looks like you left something out too

way too much to list here.

Most wealthy people and corporations pay so little in tax it is incredible...tax write offs and more..and citizens in America get tons of tax breaks too


and if your supposition were true...you'd have to look at what percenatge of national income is spent on what.

We have a huge defense budget. Other countries have huge social welfare systems....and the right, you included say you don't want us becoming European in that way.


So you are suffering a classic case of disconnect ...

Wrong!

We are often reminded these days that the top 1% of earners in America pay about 40% of the nations federal income taxes–nearly double the share they paid in 1980. The latest to weigh in on this factoid is billionaire-mayor Mike Bloomberg, who disputed the Buffett doctrine and said that, “A very small percentage in this country pay a big chunk of the taxes.”

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Where have you been the past 5 years? The single reason the US economy is weak is because the private sector had cut on spending after the big scare in 2008. And it keeps saving as much as it can.



Every cent that the government spend is explicitly authorized by Congress. If that is not a budget, I don't know what is.

If you want details, go ahead:
2012 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So now "cut" means "stopped"?

Read the whole thread, you moron -- nobody talked about a full stop but you.

The private sector caused the recession by reducing its spending. Ideally, the government then has to offset those cuts by increasing its own expenditures. At the very least it should not engage in the austerity on its own, like UK Conservatives did -- because it would only make matters worse.

Authorizing spending is not creating a budget, doofus!

But it does mean that the government IS on a budget -- always was and always will be.

You better go back and re-read the thread you stupid fuck!


Cause of 2008 Recession
Irrational exuberance in the housing market led many people to buy houses they couldn't afford, because everyone thought housing prices could only go up. In 2006, the bubble burst as housing prices started to decline. This caught many homeowners off guard, who had taken loans with little money down. As they realized they would lose money by selling the house for less than their mortgage, they foreclosed. An escalating foreclosure rate panicked many banks and hedge funds, who had bought mortgage-backed securities on the secondary market and now realized they were facing huge losses.

By August 2007, banks became afraid to lend to each other because they didn't want these toxic loans as collateral. This led to the $700 billion bailout, and bankruptcies or government nationalization of Bear Stearns, AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, IndyMac Bank, and Washington Mutual. By December 2008, employment was declining faster than in the 2001 recession.

In 2009, the government launched the economic stimulus plan. It was designed to spend $185 billion in 2009. And in fact, it halted a four-quarter decline in GDP by Q3 of that year, thus ending the recession. However, unemployment continued to rise to 10%, and many business leaders still expected a W-shaped recession by the end of 2010. High unemployment rates still persisted into 2011.

 

[ogibillm]

A budget is a budget you moron. The only difference in a household or business budget and the government budget is the scope.

your personal and/or business budget does not have the same relationship with the economy at large as the federal government budget.

as such each operates under different rules. they are not the same.

go read another bumper sticker.

It still operates under the same basic principle. I understand the constraints and the scope or not the same and I made that distinction. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Perhaps you'd be better served reading bumper stickers.

no, you fail to understand. it's not just scope. you don't just add or take away zeroes and everything operates the same.

if i cut back on my cable bill i don't also hurt my ability to get a raise at work - but that's how the government budget works.

 

[g5000]

Typical liberal idiot.

Can't argue against the facts so lets attack the grammar.

Federal taxes that they get back at the end of the year. So are you really paying?NOOOOOOOOOO

BTW I do pay federal taxes!

Now your confusing payroll taxes that did go up on everyone with federal income tax.

Give it a break, You have no clue what your talking or even arguing about.

I'm not a liberal, I'm an old school conservative. I'm here to clean our house.

You said "federal taxes". Look, it's right there in front of you. You didn't say, "The poor doesn't pay federal income taxes."

EVERYONE who earns a paycheck pays federal taxes. Fact.

And the payroll tax returned to what it was before Obama came along. He gave you a two year tax break, and what thanks did he get from you piss drinkers when he lowered them?

None. Not a word.

But when the holiday expired, oh look at how you moaned about him increasing your taxes! BWA-HA-HA!

You use the "doesn't pay federal taxes" meme only when it suits you. 47% don't pay federal [whisper]income[/whisper] taxes. Obama raised taxes on 77% of Americans! I can see what you did there.

Hey, down here at Misinformation Central we love you guys. Keep up the good work!

No, you're a liberal. But hey I don't blame you for being too ashamed or too embarrassed to admit it.

Don't you get embarrassed at how nuts you UnConservatives appear to everyone else?

First you sneer and spit on the 47 percent who pay no income taxes. When Obama won the election, you double down on the hate and mistakenly blame Obama's win on him giving presents to the 47 percent.

Then, when he takes away one of those presents, the payroll tax holiday, you suddenly throw your arms compassionately around the 47 percent and cry and cry and cry the evil Obama has raised their taxes!

The UnConservatives bitch and bitch and bitch about Medicare, but they threw their hands around the elderly when Obama was going to cut Medicare!

I pity you. I really do. It's very similar to an alcoholic's denial. Everyone knows you have a problem but you. The rank dishonest and hypocrisy is piling up. Soon, even you will be unable to avoid admitting the stench of your own filth.

Why don't you work on an actual conservative program with real conservative principles and then come back ready to defend it, instead of floating down a stream of piss from the bladders of your masters?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

your personal and/or business budget does not have the same relationship with the economy at large as the federal government budget.

as such each operates under different rules. they are not the same.

go read another bumper sticker.

It still operates under the same basic principle. I understand the constraints and the scope or not the same and I made that distinction. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Perhaps you'd be better served reading bumper stickers.

no, you fail to understand. it's not just scope. you don't just add or take away zeroes and everything operates the same.

if i cut back on my cable bill i don't also hurt my ability to get a raise at work - but that's how the government budget works.

scope/skoʊp/ Show Spelled [skohp] Show IPA noun, verb, scoped, scop·ing.
noun
1. extent or range of view, outlook, application, operation, effectiveness, etc.: an investigation of wide scope.
2. space for movement or activity; opportunity for operation: to give one's fancy full scope.
3. extent in space; a tract or area.
4. length: a scope of cable.
5. aim or purpose.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A budget is a budget you moron. The only difference in a household or business budget and the government budget is the scope.

There is a difference of kind as well as degree. No, a government is not analogous to a family budget. That you think otherwise demonstrates you have no grasp of what is happening.

Ok once again for you idiot liberals I acknowledged a difference.

You are not a conservative, only a mere reactionary, whose opinion is immaterial. I am not a liberal, and I make a very valid point: a family budget is a much different KIND of animal than a government budget. For that matter, so is a corporate budget.

Who informed you that you had a point on this? You are flabulating, nothing more.

 

[ogibillm]

It still operates under the same basic principle. I understand the constraints and the scope or not the same and I made that distinction. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Perhaps you'd be better served reading bumper stickers.

no, you fail to understand. it's not just scope. you don't just add or take away zeroes and everything operates the same.

if i cut back on my cable bill i don't also hurt my ability to get a raise at work - but that's how the government budget works.

scope/skoʊp/ Show Spelled [skohp] Show IPA noun, verb, scoped, scop·ing.
noun
1. extent or range of view, outlook, application, operation, effectiveness, etc.: an investigation of wide scope.
2. space for movement or activity; opportunity for operation: to give one's fancy full scope.
3. extent in space; a tract or area.
4. length: a scope of cable.
5. aim or purpose.

so... you're arguing that they are different in scope but are operating under the same rules and constraints?

or am i missing something?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I'm not a liberal, I'm an old school conservative. I'm here to clean our house.

You said "federal taxes". Look, it's right there in front of you. You didn't say, "The poor doesn't pay federal income taxes."

EVERYONE who earns a paycheck pays federal taxes. Fact.

And the payroll tax returned to what it was before Obama came along. He gave you a two year tax break, and what thanks did he get from you piss drinkers when he lowered them?

None. Not a word.

But when the holiday expired, oh look at how you moaned about him increasing your taxes! BWA-HA-HA!

You use the "doesn't pay federal taxes" meme only when it suits you. 47% don't pay federal [whisper]income[/whisper] taxes. Obama raised taxes on 77% of Americans! I can see what you did there.

Hey, down here at Misinformation Central we love you guys. Keep up the good work!

No, you're a liberal. But hey I don't blame you for being too ashamed or too embarrassed to admit it.

Don't you get embarrassed at how nuts you UnConservatives appear to everyone else?

First you sneer and spit on the 47 percent who pay no income taxes. When Obama won the election, you double down on the hate and mistakenly blame Obama's win on him giving presents to the 47 percent.

Then, when he takes away one of those presents, the payroll tax holiday, you suddenly throw your arms compassionately around the 47 percent and decry the evil Obama raising their taxes!

The UnConservatives bitch and bitch and bitch about Medicare, but they threw their hands around the elderly when Obama was going to cut Medicare!

I pity you. I really do. It's very similar to an alcoholic's denial. Everyone knows you have a problem but you. The rank dishonest and hypocrisy is piling up. Soon, even you will be unable to avoid admitting the stench of your own filth.

I wouldn't know since I've been a conservative my entire life.

But I do know that you are not a conservative and I doubt you ever have been.

When you have paid into Medicare for your entire working life, then yes it's a bitch when someone wants to take it.

Every conservative I know, knows that entitlement reform is needed. It's the Democrats, like yourself that doesn't want reform.

As for the rest of your diatribe. It's made up nonsense that I'm not going to respond to.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

There is a difference of kind as well as degree. No, a government is not analogous to a family budget. That you think otherwise demonstrates you have no grasp of what is happening.

Ok once again for you idiot liberals I acknowledged a difference.

You are not a conservative, only a mere reactionary, whose opinion is immaterial. I am not a liberal, and I make a very valid point: a family budget is a much different KIND of animal than a government budget. For that matter, so is a corporate budget.

Who informed you that you had a point on this? You are flabulating, nothing more.

Yes you're a liberal.

Deny it all you want. But you can't hide it.

I acknowledged a difference you moron!