Why I don't believe in God

[Weatherman2020]

How many millions will fudge on their taxes and the government won't catch them?

How many commit adultry and never get caught?

I don't have the delusion I can trick God.

I see your dodging every single one of my statements. Do you support capitalism? Do you feel someone who commits adultery needs to go to jail? What's the more meaningfull giving?

No, it's you who continue to ignore moral relativism is grossly flawed and always leads to what I know as evil.

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

Then answer the damn questions. Do you believe in Capitalism? Is adultry a crime? is slavery morally right? And here's the most important one do you feel your interpretation of the bible Trumps secular law?None of those questions are about me, I've answered your questions to what I believe, just so you could equate them to the beliefs of some of the most unetical ppl who ever walked the earth.But you can't show me the same courtesy.

I believe in Capitalism, adultry is legal, and slavery as you define it is morally wrong.
The Bible is the document above mans.

So?

So if German Christians had a clue that was the case they would have ignored German laws and not rounded up Jews.

Got a problem with that?

Now back to my original question from days ago - what's the downside to believing in Jesus?

 

[ChrisL]

I see your dodging every single one of my statements. Do you support capitalism? Do you feel someone who commits adultery needs to go to jail? What's the more meaningfull giving?

No, it's you who continue to ignore moral relativism is grossly flawed and always leads to what I know as evil.

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

Then answer the damn questions. Do you believe in Capitalism? Is adultry a crime? is slavery morally right? And here's the most important one do you feel your interpretation of the bible Trumps secular law?None of those questions are about me, I've answered your questions to what I believe, just so you could equate them to the beliefs of some of the most unetical ppl who ever walked the earth.But you can't show me the same courtesy.

I believe in Capitalism, adultry is legal, and slavery as you define it is morally wrong.
The Bible is the document above mans.

So?

So if German Christians had a clue that was the case they would have ignored German laws and not rounded up Jews.

Got a problem with that?

Now back to my original question from days ago - what's the downside to believing in Jesus?

I believe in Jesus. He was a man who existed thousands of years ago. Lol. He had some good ideas. Doesn't mean he was "divine."

 

[forkup]

I see your dodging every single one of my statements. Do you support capitalism? Do you feel someone who commits adultery needs to go to jail? What's the more meaningfull giving?

No, it's you who continue to ignore moral relativism is grossly flawed and always leads to what I know as evil.

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

Then answer the damn questions. Do you believe in Capitalism? Is adultry a crime? is slavery morally right? And here's the most important one do you feel your interpretation of the bible Trumps secular law?None of those questions are about me, I've answered your questions to what I believe, just so you could equate them to the beliefs of some of the most unetical ppl who ever walked the earth.But you can't show me the same courtesy.

I believe in Capitalism, adultry is legal, and slavery as you define it is morally wrong.
The Bible is the document above mans.

So?

So if German Christians had a clue that was the case they would have ignored German laws and not rounded up Jews.

Got a problem with that?

Now back to my original question from days ago - what's the downside to believing in Jesus?

First of,thank you I've been waiting a while now for a straight answer. As you can imaging theres obvious room to try to find logic holes but by all means let's stay on topic. I'll give you the same answer as I gave in my first post and I'll illustrate where needed. just not the part where we talked about morals, since i think we covered that part as good as we are going to.
"
I don't hate God personally. I can't hate what I feel doesn't exist. I hate how being religious means that your view of morality and even truth has to take presedence above all others. You have ppl blowing themselves up in the name of god. Ppl killing doctors because they feel those doctors do immoral thing. Religious ppl trying to decide what knowledge is disbursed to our children even if that knowledge completly falls out of the realm of religion. If a person can be religious and are content in keeping that in their own personal space, there's nothing wrong with it. But nearly all organised religions in history have made attemps and most of the time succeeded in imposing their will on the populace they where imbedded in, most of the time with dissastrous consequences for those who didn't believe how they did."
Obviously there are plenty of examples of Religiously inspired wars, but I want to illustrate another thing. The reason the dark ages lasted so long was because of religion. All knowledge in the dark ages had to be viewed first and foremost trough a religious prism. There was no way to be a secular sholar. All schools where religious and so all knowledge that in ANY way contradicted scripture was avoided or violently suppressed. Examples are numerous. Praying was considered an intregal part of medicine. Kowledge of anatomy was non existent since disecting cadavers was a crime. Personal hygiene was considered ungodly. Now that's history, but in the US there is a growing movement to like you just stated put god before man, resulting among other things in the supressing of science in area's where it contradicts scripture.

 

[Weatherman2020]

No, it's you who continue to ignore moral relativism is grossly flawed and always leads to what I know as evil.

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

Then answer the damn questions. Do you believe in Capitalism? Is adultry a crime? is slavery morally right? And here's the most important one do you feel your interpretation of the bible Trumps secular law?None of those questions are about me, I've answered your questions to what I believe, just so you could equate them to the beliefs of some of the most unetical ppl who ever walked the earth.But you can't show me the same courtesy.

I believe in Capitalism, adultry is legal, and slavery as you define it is morally wrong.
The Bible is the document above mans.

So?

So if German Christians had a clue that was the case they would have ignored German laws and not rounded up Jews.

Got a problem with that?

Now back to my original question from days ago - what's the downside to believing in Jesus?

First of,thank you I've been waiting a while now for a straight answer. As you can imaging theres obvious room to try to find logic holes but by all means let's stay on topic. I'll give you the same answer as I gave in my first post and I'll illustrate where needed. just not the part where we talked about morals, since i think we covered that part as good as we are going to.
"
I don't hate God personally. I can't hate what I feel doesn't exist. I hate how being religious means that your view of morality and even truth has to take presedence above all others. You have ppl blowing themselves up in the name of god. Ppl killing doctors because they feel those doctors do immoral thing. Religious ppl trying to decide what knowledge is disbursed to our children even if that knowledge completly falls out of the realm of religion. If a person can be religious and are content in keeping that in their own personal space, there's nothing wrong with it. But nearly all organised religions in history have made attemps and most of the time succeeded in imposing their will on the populace they where imbedded in, most of the time with dissastrous consequences for those who didn't believe how they did."
Obviously there are plenty of examples of Religiously inspired wars, but I want to illustrate another thing. The reason the dark ages lasted so long was because of religion. All knowledge in the dark ages had to be viewed first and foremost trough a religious prism. There was no way to be a secular sholar. All schools where religious and so all knowledge that in ANY way contradicted scripture was avoided or violently suppressed. Examples are numerous. Praying was considered an intregal part of medicine. Kowledge of anatomy was non existent since disecting cadavers was a crime. Personal hygiene was considered ungodly. Now that's history, but in the US there is a growing movement to like you just stated put god before man, resulting among other things in the supressing of science in area's where it contradicts scripture.

You're rambling all around the question. It is not about what you believe or what others do to gain personal power. I can bring up the 160 million murdered by their own Godless governments in just the past century if you want, but that's not my question.

What is the downside of believing what Jesus taught?

 

[Slyhunter]

I see your dodging every single one of my statements. Do you support capitalism? Do you feel someone who commits adultery needs to go to jail? What's the more meaningfull giving?

No, it's you who continue to ignore moral relativism is grossly flawed and always leads to what I know as evil.

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

Then answer the damn questions. Do you believe in Capitalism? Is adultry a crime? is slavery morally right? And here's the most important one do you feel your interpretation of the bible Trumps secular law?None of those questions are about me, I've answered your questions to what I believe, just so you could equate them to the beliefs of some of the most unetical ppl who ever walked the earth.But you can't show me the same courtesy.

I believe in Capitalism, adultry is legal, and slavery as you define it is morally wrong.
The Bible is the document above mans.

So?

So if German Christians had a clue that was the case they would have ignored German laws and not rounded up Jews.

Got a problem with that?

Now back to my original question from days ago - what's the downside to believing in Jesus?

You have two paths, you can sit back and wait for Jesus to do it or you can figure it out for yourself. It's a dangerous choice to sit back and do nothing waiting for Jesus to do it.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

Then answer the damn questions. Do you believe in Capitalism? Is adultry a crime? is slavery morally right? And here's the most important one do you feel your interpretation of the bible Trumps secular law?None of those questions are about me, I've answered your questions to what I believe, just so you could equate them to the beliefs of some of the most unetical ppl who ever walked the earth.But you can't show me the same courtesy.

I believe in Capitalism, adultry is legal, and slavery as you define it is morally wrong.
The Bible is the document above mans.

So?

So if German Christians had a clue that was the case they would have ignored German laws and not rounded up Jews.

Got a problem with that?

Now back to my original question from days ago - what's the downside to believing in Jesus?

First of,thank you I've been waiting a while now for a straight answer. As you can imaging theres obvious room to try to find logic holes but by all means let's stay on topic. I'll give you the same answer as I gave in my first post and I'll illustrate where needed. just not the part where we talked about morals, since i think we covered that part as good as we are going to.
"
I don't hate God personally. I can't hate what I feel doesn't exist. I hate how being religious means that your view of morality and even truth has to take presedence above all others. You have ppl blowing themselves up in the name of god. Ppl killing doctors because they feel those doctors do immoral thing. Religious ppl trying to decide what knowledge is disbursed to our children even if that knowledge completly falls out of the realm of religion. If a person can be religious and are content in keeping that in their own personal space, there's nothing wrong with it. But nearly all organised religions in history have made attemps and most of the time succeeded in imposing their will on the populace they where imbedded in, most of the time with dissastrous consequences for those who didn't believe how they did."
Obviously there are plenty of examples of Religiously inspired wars, but I want to illustrate another thing. The reason the dark ages lasted so long was because of religion. All knowledge in the dark ages had to be viewed first and foremost trough a religious prism. There was no way to be a secular sholar. All schools where religious and so all knowledge that in ANY way contradicted scripture was avoided or violently suppressed. Examples are numerous. Praying was considered an intregal part of medicine. Kowledge of anatomy was non existent since disecting cadavers was a crime. Personal hygiene was considered ungodly. Now that's history, but in the US there is a growing movement to like you just stated put god before man, resulting among other things in the supressing of science in area's where it contradicts scripture.

You're rambling all around the question. It is not about what you believe or what others do to gain personal power. I can bring up the 160 million murdered by their own Godless governments in just the past century if you want, but that's not my question.

What is the downside of believing what Jesus taught?

What do you follow that Jesus taught? Probably not much.

 

[emilynghiem]

1+1=2. You lose.

No, you lose. As I said, you're not smart enough to grasp this.

"1+1=2" is simply an equation we use to determine a result we believe. Many things have to be assumed. You've not defined absolutely what "one" is... what "two" is... what is meant by "equal" or what is meant by "plus." All of these have to be defined as we believe we know them. Does 1+1 always equal 2, or sometimes, can 2x1=2? Or 3-1=2? Or 1.5+.5? -- As you can see, 2 may not always equal 1+1. And again... One what? How about an electron? What if I told you, at the subatomic level, 1 electron + 1 electron could = 3 electrons? Or 1 electron? Or no electrons? And it might only depend on whether you are observing them.

You want to throw out another example of something we THINK we know?

Dear Mudda and Boss
I would say that defining GOD to be something that exists
is like assigning the term 4 to the quantity: * * * *
It is the TERM people AGREE to use for * * * *

Religions are like arguing is GOD arrived at by stating
2+2=4
2X2=4
1+1+1+1=4
2^2=4
etc. (NOTE: even though all these are correct, they are NOT THE SAME.
adding 1+1+1+1 to get 4 is NOT the same as taking 2^2 to get to 4.
And a lot of fights in religion are because there are differences,
and people argue you can't just treat all these ways as the same because they aren't.)

All these are right ways of saying * * * *
but they are all different ways of expressing the relationships
between different components that all add up to * * * *
defined as 4.

Someone else using Binary may express 4 differently.
Or someone may use marks in the sand | | | |

What we could do to avoid bickering over terms and analogies
is try to stick to the Principles Concepts Relations or Essence of
what we MEAN by "God" "Jesus" "sin" etc.spell these out in
natural terms what we are trying to talk about, and then we might
be able to discuss those things, and if we agree or not on the
NATURE of life, love, truth, wisdom, justice, universal laws, good will
or whatever else we mean by GOD in a specific context.

Good day and please focus on nitpicking for the purpose of
resolution and reaching agreement, not for the purpose of rejection
and obstruction. Criticism and correction is good, and much needed,
if we are going to pinpoint where we can actually communicate and agree. And not just play Devil's advocate to discredit or strike someone down. Why not focus on the universal points we want to build up upon?

I guess you haven't figured out by now that Boss is a retard.

NO, not at ALL.
Boss is a highly discerning very sensitive and intelligent articulate contributor in these discussions. May have a bit of an edge or ego that rubs against others with the same. That comes with the territory when you think for yourself and push for higher discernment and understanding among peers, it's going to get aggressive and pushy, defensive and a bit emotional where toes and turf are stepped on.

That's normal when discussing religion and politics!

I respect Boss and can forgive that slightly negative rejecting edge.
I can still work with Boss to the degree that Boss will work with me.

Being pushy and standing for what is consistent and what makes sense to you is absolutely necessary to carry these discussions and debates to their rightful conclusion.

I say go for it, we need more people willing to push like Boss is.
And just be okay with the process and not freak out and call names to release the pressure it creates throwing everyone's beliefs and opinions in one huge stew to sort out. Of course it's going to look crazy, but as long as the people involved are committed to making sense and resolving every last conflict or objection, hey, we can hash it all out!

I say Hooray for people like Boss sealybobo Derideo_Te numan orogenicman Inevitable M.D. Rawlings willing to push the envelope and keep asking questions until we pinpoint specific answers. If we are going to disagree, let's find out where and why instead of just calling the other person shortsighted, ignorant or wrong and leaving the issues unsettled.

 

[emilynghiem]

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

Then answer the damn questions. Do you believe in Capitalism? Is adultry a crime? is slavery morally right? And here's the most important one do you feel your interpretation of the bible Trumps secular law?None of those questions are about me, I've answered your questions to what I believe, just so you could equate them to the beliefs of some of the most unetical ppl who ever walked the earth.But you can't show me the same courtesy.

I believe in Capitalism, adultry is legal, and slavery as you define it is morally wrong.
The Bible is the document above mans.

So?

So if German Christians had a clue that was the case they would have ignored German laws and not rounded up Jews.

Got a problem with that?

Now back to my original question from days ago - what's the downside to believing in Jesus?

First of,thank you I've been waiting a while now for a straight answer. As you can imaging theres obvious room to try to find logic holes but by all means let's stay on topic. I'll give you the same answer as I gave in my first post and I'll illustrate where needed. just not the part where we talked about morals, since i think we covered that part as good as we are going to.
"
I don't hate God personally. I can't hate what I feel doesn't exist. I hate how being religious means that your view of morality and even truth has to take presedence above all others. You have ppl blowing themselves up in the name of god. Ppl killing doctors because they feel those doctors do immoral thing. Religious ppl trying to decide what knowledge is disbursed to our children even if that knowledge completly falls out of the realm of religion. If a person can be religious and are content in keeping that in their own personal space, there's nothing wrong with it. But nearly all organised religions in history have made attemps and most of the time succeeded in imposing their will on the populace they where imbedded in, most of the time with dissastrous consequences for those who didn't believe how they did."
Obviously there are plenty of examples of Religiously inspired wars, but I want to illustrate another thing. The reason the dark ages lasted so long was because of religion. All knowledge in the dark ages had to be viewed first and foremost trough a religious prism. There was no way to be a secular sholar. All schools where religious and so all knowledge that in ANY way contradicted scripture was avoided or violently suppressed. Examples are numerous. Praying was considered an intregal part of medicine. Kowledge of anatomy was non existent since disecting cadavers was a crime. Personal hygiene was considered ungodly. Now that's history, but in the US there is a growing movement to like you just stated put god before man, resulting among other things in the supressing of science in area's where it contradicts scripture.

You're rambling all around the question. It is not about what you believe or what others do to gain personal power. I can bring up the 160 million murdered by their own Godless governments in just the past century if you want, but that's not my question.

What is the downside of believing what Jesus taught?

What do you follow that Jesus taught? Probably not much.

Dear ChrisL everyone I know follows their CONSCIENCE and wants peace and justice on THEIR terms. In order to do this consistently, and in harmony with everyone else seeking and following the same, we end up having to correct, agree and synchronize in the spirit of truth, which we determine by conscience, by mutually correcting each other until we hash out what we agree to be true and just.

What determines our faith is how far into this process we give up,
and how much we forgive each other's flaws, faults or biases and how difficult that makes it on everyone, and keep hashing it out anyway.

Very few people have faith this process can be done peacefully.
But everyone I know wants truth and justice and wants to be free from suffering and conflict caused by falsehood, ill will and negative motivations. People want to be free, at peace and secure in having their will and consent respected. So underneath, we all want the same thing.

We just don't all agree how to get there, and thus people fight for control instead of working together, step by step, and agreeing how to proceed.

 

[sealybobo]

1+1=2. You lose.

No, you lose. As I said, you're not smart enough to grasp this.

"1+1=2" is simply an equation we use to determine a result we believe. Many things have to be assumed. You've not defined absolutely what "one" is... what "two" is... what is meant by "equal" or what is meant by "plus." All of these have to be defined as we believe we know them. Does 1+1 always equal 2, or sometimes, can 2x1=2? Or 3-1=2? Or 1.5+.5? -- As you can see, 2 may not always equal 1+1. And again... One what? How about an electron? What if I told you, at the subatomic level, 1 electron + 1 electron could = 3 electrons? Or 1 electron? Or no electrons? And it might only depend on whether you are observing them.

You want to throw out another example of something we THINK we know?

Dear Mudda and Boss
I would say that defining GOD to be something that exists
is like assigning the term 4 to the quantity: * * * *
It is the TERM people AGREE to use for * * * *

Religions are like arguing is GOD arrived at by stating
2+2=4
2X2=4
1+1+1+1=4
2^2=4
etc. (NOTE: even though all these are correct, they are NOT THE SAME.
adding 1+1+1+1 to get 4 is NOT the same as taking 2^2 to get to 4.
And a lot of fights in religion are because there are differences,
and people argue you can't just treat all these ways as the same because they aren't.)

All these are right ways of saying * * * *
but they are all different ways of expressing the relationships
between different components that all add up to * * * *
defined as 4.

Someone else using Binary may express 4 differently.
Or someone may use marks in the sand | | | |

What we could do to avoid bickering over terms and analogies
is try to stick to the Principles Concepts Relations or Essence of
what we MEAN by "God" "Jesus" "sin" etc.spell these out in
natural terms what we are trying to talk about, and then we might
be able to discuss those things, and if we agree or not on the
NATURE of life, love, truth, wisdom, justice, universal laws, good will
or whatever else we mean by GOD in a specific context.

Good day and please focus on nitpicking for the purpose of
resolution and reaching agreement, not for the purpose of rejection
and obstruction. Criticism and correction is good, and much needed,
if we are going to pinpoint where we can actually communicate and agree. And not just play Devil's advocate to discredit or strike someone down. Why not focus on the universal points we want to build up upon?

I guess you haven't figured out by now that Boss is a retard.

NO, not at ALL.
Boss is a highly discerning very sensitive and intelligent articulate contributor in these discussions. May have a bit of an edge or ego that rubs against others with the same. That comes with the territory when you think for yourself and push for higher discernment and understanding among peers, it's going to get aggressive and pushy, defensive and a bit emotional where toes and turf are stepped on.

That's normal when discussing religion and politics!

I respect Boss and can forgive that slightly negative rejecting edge.
I can still work with Boss to the degree that Boss will work with me.

Being pushy and standing for what is consistent and what makes sense to you is absolutely necessary to carry these discussions and debates to their rightful conclusion.

I say go for it, we need more people willing to push like Boss is.
And just be okay with the process and not freak out and call names to release the pressure it creates throwing everyone's beliefs and opinions in one huge stew to sort out. Of course it's going to look crazy, but as long as the people involved are committed to making sense and resolving every last conflict or objection, hey, we can hash it all out!

I say Hooray for people like Boss sealybobo Derideo_Te numan orogenicman Inevitable M.D. Rawlings willing to push the envelope and keep asking questions until we pinpoint specific answers. If we are going to disagree, let's find out where and why instead of just calling the other person shortsighted, ignorant or wrong and leaving the issues unsettled.

I guess one of the points I try to make about the God hypothesis is so what? It doesn't bother me that a lot of my friends and family are Jewish Muslims Christians or Jews but it would bother a lot of them that would get real upset.

And that's why God makes people crazy. That and the virgin birth thing.

Boss believes in God but agrees with me on organized religions. If not he'd be a member.

 

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

Then answer the damn questions. Do you believe in Capitalism? Is adultry a crime? is slavery morally right? And here's the most important one do you feel your interpretation of the bible Trumps secular law?None of those questions are about me, I've answered your questions to what I believe, just so you could equate them to the beliefs of some of the most unetical ppl who ever walked the earth.But you can't show me the same courtesy.

I believe in Capitalism, adultry is legal, and slavery as you define it is morally wrong.
The Bible is the document above mans.

So?

So if German Christians had a clue that was the case they would have ignored German laws and not rounded up Jews.

Got a problem with that?

Now back to my original question from days ago - what's the downside to believing in Jesus?

First of,thank you I've been waiting a while now for a straight answer. As you can imaging theres obvious room to try to find logic holes but by all means let's stay on topic. I'll give you the same answer as I gave in my first post and I'll illustrate where needed. just not the part where we talked about morals, since i think we covered that part as good as we are going to.
"
I don't hate God personally. I can't hate what I feel doesn't exist. I hate how being religious means that your view of morality and even truth has to take presedence above all others. You have ppl blowing themselves up in the name of god. Ppl killing doctors because they feel those doctors do immoral thing. Religious ppl trying to decide what knowledge is disbursed to our children even if that knowledge completly falls out of the realm of religion. If a person can be religious and are content in keeping that in their own personal space, there's nothing wrong with it. But nearly all organised religions in history have made attemps and most of the time succeeded in imposing their will on the populace they where imbedded in, most of the time with dissastrous consequences for those who didn't believe how they did."
Obviously there are plenty of examples of Religiously inspired wars, but I want to illustrate another thing. The reason the dark ages lasted so long was because of religion. All knowledge in the dark ages had to be viewed first and foremost trough a religious prism. There was no way to be a secular sholar. All schools where religious and so all knowledge that in ANY way contradicted scripture was avoided or violently suppressed. Examples are numerous. Praying was considered an intregal part of medicine. Kowledge of anatomy was non existent since disecting cadavers was a crime. Personal hygiene was considered ungodly. Now that's history, but in the US there is a growing movement to like you just stated put god before man, resulting among other things in the supressing of science in area's where it contradicts scripture.

You're rambling all around the question. It is not about what you believe or what others do to gain personal power. I can bring up the 160 million murdered by their own Godless governments in just the past century if you want, but that's not my question.

What is the downside of believing what Jesus taught?

What do you follow that Jesus taught? Probably not much.

Dear ChrisL everyone I know follows their CONSCIENCE and wants peace and justice on THEIR terms. In order to do this consistently, and in harmony with everyone else seeking and following the same, we end up having to correct, agree and synchronize in the spirit of truth, which we determine by conscience, by mutually correcting each other until we hash out what we agree to be true and just.

What determines our faith is how far into this process we give up,
and how much we forgive each other's flaws, faults or biases and how difficult that makes it on everyone, and keep hashing it out anyway.

Very few people have faith this process can be done peacefully.
But everyone I know wants truth and justice and wants to be free from suffering and conflict caused by falsehood, ill will and negative motivations. People want to be free, at peace and secure in having their will and consent respected. So underneath, we all want the same thing.

We just don't all agree how to get there, and thus people fight for control instead of working together, step by step, and agreeing how to proceed.

Hi Emily,

As this is a religion section I think that there are just some people who are evil-natured as the Bible says (Romans 9:22.)

Romans 9:22
English Standard Version (ESV)
(22)What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

 

[sealybobo]

You don't think a secular law books aren't documented guidelines? They aren't just guidelines they are designed to leave as little room for interpretation as words can make them. They also adjust with the times, all advantages the bible doesn't have. That's also the answer to the second question. I condemn slavery but that's besides the point. The LAW forbids slavery. And as long as the law isn't completly oposed to my beliefs I will follow i
Ah and here we are again with the original point. Being religious makes you feel like your moral compass is the only moral compass. If you feel that adultry is an actual crime, fine that's your right. It is thank god not the law of the land. Because society deemed matters of the heart out of his purview and certainly not worthy of arrest. Greed is the basis of american capitalism, unless you can now say you are a Bernie supporter, you are in violation of that moral law you say you cling to. As to the last one being generous is something you are not something you are because the bible told you to be. What's more meaningfull? Giving because it's the right thing to do, or giving because it's a way to heaven?

How many millions will fudge on their taxes and the government won't catch them?

How many commit adultry and never get caught?

I don't have the delusion I can trick God.

I see your dodging every single one of my statements. Do you support capitalism? Do you feel someone who commits adultery needs to go to jail? What's the more meaningfull giving?

No, it's you who continue to ignore moral relativism is grossly flawed and always leads to what I know as evil.

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

There were 999 other religions that came before and after Christianity. Christianity just happens to be our societies main religion. Are ethics much different in Israel? Did the Jews have ethics morals and laws before Christianity was born?

 

[Weatherman2020]

How many millions will fudge on their taxes and the government won't catch them?

How many commit adultry and never get caught?

I don't have the delusion I can trick God.

I see your dodging every single one of my statements. Do you support capitalism? Do you feel someone who commits adultery needs to go to jail? What's the more meaningfull giving?

No, it's you who continue to ignore moral relativism is grossly flawed and always leads to what I know as evil.

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

There were 999 other religions that came before and after Christianity. Christianity just happens to be our societies main religion. Are ethics much different in Israel? Did the Jews have ethics morals and laws before Christianity was born?

I chose Christianity because that is what the haters hate the most. They are terrified of Islam so give it a wide berth, Buddhism, Hinduism and all the other claptrap are widely accepted by them. I have my theory as to why, but that's a different topic.

What I'm waiting for is an answer from the haters what's the problem of believing in the delusion of Christianity.

 

[sealybobo]

I see your dodging every single one of my statements. Do you support capitalism? Do you feel someone who commits adultery needs to go to jail? What's the more meaningfull giving?

No, it's you who continue to ignore moral relativism is grossly flawed and always leads to what I know as evil.

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

There were 999 other religions that came before and after Christianity. Christianity just happens to be our societies main religion. Are ethics much different in Israel? Did the Jews have ethics morals and laws before Christianity was born?

I chose Christianity because that is what the haters hate the most. They are terrified of Islam so give it a wide berth, Buddhism, Hinduism and all the other claptrap are widely accepted by them. I have my theory as to why, but that's a different topic.

What I'm waiting for is an answer from the haters what's the problem of believing in the delusion of Christianity.

Let me know when being an atheist stops bothering you theists.

It shouldn't bother you if a politician or your child believes. If it does, that's the problem.

 

[sealybobo]

Lol. Family guy is doing an episode on this. Brian admitted he's an athiest and the whole towns against him

 

[Weatherman2020]

No, it's you who continue to ignore moral relativism is grossly flawed and always leads to what I know as evil.

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

There were 999 other religions that came before and after Christianity. Christianity just happens to be our societies main religion. Are ethics much different in Israel? Did the Jews have ethics morals and laws before Christianity was born?

I chose Christianity because that is what the haters hate the most. They are terrified of Islam so give it a wide berth, Buddhism, Hinduism and all the other claptrap are widely accepted by them. I have my theory as to why, but that's a different topic.

What I'm waiting for is an answer from the haters what's the problem of believing in the delusion of Christianity.

Let me know when being an atheist stops bothering you theists.

It shouldn't bother you if a politician or your child believes. If it does, that's the problem.

Who says your beliefs bothers anyone? Your beliefs are yours to decide. It's the haters who try to crush Christianity.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Lol. Family guy is doing an episode on this. Brian admitted he's an athiest and the whole towns against him

So you get your wisdom from Family Guy. Figures.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm kinda getting bored with this. I've had the courage to state my ethical world to you. I've been civil altough you have compared me to everybody but the devil himself.You have given me alot of direct question I've given you a direct answer to most of those questions. Now so far you have been very very eager to judge every single aspect of my morals, on the other hand you have given me precious little to your own ethical believes. Now I think there's some quote saying something like don't judge unless you'dd be judged so if you are not willing to go out on a limb and keep on contenting yourself to try to find little holes in my logic I see no point in continuing.

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

There were 999 other religions that came before and after Christianity. Christianity just happens to be our societies main religion. Are ethics much different in Israel? Did the Jews have ethics morals and laws before Christianity was born?

I chose Christianity because that is what the haters hate the most. They are terrified of Islam so give it a wide berth, Buddhism, Hinduism and all the other claptrap are widely accepted by them. I have my theory as to why, but that's a different topic.

What I'm waiting for is an answer from the haters what's the problem of believing in the delusion of Christianity.

Let me know when being an atheist stops bothering you theists.

It shouldn't bother you if a politician or your child believes. If it does, that's the problem.

Who says your beliefs bothers anyone? Your beliefs are yours to decide. It's the haters who try to crush Christianity.

Oh it does. If not why have the discussion?

And if I feel your religion is a lie and bad for people, I'm going to let everyone know.

Shouldn't potential members hear all the facts?

Don't say our beliefs don't bother you people. You don't want us telling people they're being scammed. If your books make sense it would be easy to show why we are wrong but we're ruining your scam.
Not just Christianity all organized religions. I want us to evolve beyond that bullshit

 

[sealybobo]

Lol. Family guy is doing an episode on this. Brian admitted he's an athiest and the whole towns against him

So you get your wisdom from Family Guy. Figures.

That and the internet

 

[emilynghiem]

1+1=2. You lose.

No, you lose. As I said, you're not smart enough to grasp this.

"1+1=2" is simply an equation we use to determine a result we believe. Many things have to be assumed. You've not defined absolutely what "one" is... what "two" is... what is meant by "equal" or what is meant by "plus." All of these have to be defined as we believe we know them. Does 1+1 always equal 2, or sometimes, can 2x1=2? Or 3-1=2? Or 1.5+.5? -- As you can see, 2 may not always equal 1+1. And again... One what? How about an electron? What if I told you, at the subatomic level, 1 electron + 1 electron could = 3 electrons? Or 1 electron? Or no electrons? And it might only depend on whether you are observing them.

You want to throw out another example of something we THINK we know?

Dear Mudda and Boss
I would say that defining GOD to be something that exists
is like assigning the term 4 to the quantity: * * * *
It is the TERM people AGREE to use for * * * *

Religions are like arguing is GOD arrived at by stating
2+2=4
2X2=4
1+1+1+1=4
2^2=4
etc. (NOTE: even though all these are correct, they are NOT THE SAME.
adding 1+1+1+1 to get 4 is NOT the same as taking 2^2 to get to 4.
And a lot of fights in religion are because there are differences,
and people argue you can't just treat all these ways as the same because they aren't.)

All these are right ways of saying * * * *
but they are all different ways of expressing the relationships
between different components that all add up to * * * *
defined as 4.

Someone else using Binary may express 4 differently.
Or someone may use marks in the sand | | | |

What we could do to avoid bickering over terms and analogies
is try to stick to the Principles Concepts Relations or Essence of
what we MEAN by "God" "Jesus" "sin" etc.spell these out in
natural terms what we are trying to talk about, and then we might
be able to discuss those things, and if we agree or not on the
NATURE of life, love, truth, wisdom, justice, universal laws, good will
or whatever else we mean by GOD in a specific context.

Good day and please focus on nitpicking for the purpose of
resolution and reaching agreement, not for the purpose of rejection
and obstruction. Criticism and correction is good, and much needed,
if we are going to pinpoint where we can actually communicate and agree. And not just play Devil's advocate to discredit or strike someone down. Why not focus on the universal points we want to build up upon?

I guess you haven't figured out by now that Boss is a retard.

NO, not at ALL.
Boss is a highly discerning very sensitive and intelligent articulate contributor in these discussions. May have a bit of an edge or ego that rubs against others with the same. That comes with the territory when you think for yourself and push for higher discernment and understanding among peers, it's going to get aggressive and pushy, defensive and a bit emotional where toes and turf are stepped on.

That's normal when discussing religion and politics!

I respect Boss and can forgive that slightly negative rejecting edge.
I can still work with Boss to the degree that Boss will work with me.

Being pushy and standing for what is consistent and what makes sense to you is absolutely necessary to carry these discussions and debates to their rightful conclusion.

I say go for it, we need more people willing to push like Boss is.
And just be okay with the process and not freak out and call names to release the pressure it creates throwing everyone's beliefs and opinions in one huge stew to sort out. Of course it's going to look crazy, but as long as the people involved are committed to making sense and resolving every last conflict or objection, hey, we can hash it all out!

I say Hooray for people like Boss sealybobo Derideo_Te numan orogenicman Inevitable M.D. Rawlings willing to push the envelope and keep asking questions until we pinpoint specific answers. If we are going to disagree, let's find out where and why instead of just calling the other person shortsighted, ignorant or wrong and leaving the issues unsettled.

I guess one of the points I try to make about the God hypothesis is so what? It doesn't bother me that a lot of my friends and family are Jewish Muslims Christians or Jews but it would bother a lot of them that would get real upset.

And that's why God makes people crazy. That and the virgin birth thing.

Boss believes in God but agrees with me on organized religions. If not he'd be a member.

Hi sealybobo and thanks again for sharing wherever you can get a word in edgewise!

I find the common factor when it comes to that bullying and control issue,
is FEAR, and UNFORGIVENESS. if people start getting divided against another
person or group, they start projecting and controlling.

so that's where the Christian message of healing and transforming by grace, comes in.
of letting go and renouncing our old ways, and agreeing to look at the world and
each other through the eyes of children, and see the good and not just the bad.

people and relations can change dramatically, be completely reborn and made new.
but it takes a CONSCIOUS choice to forgive the past, and that takes strength
and humility that people usually draw on a "higher power" to rise above their
own will which is to resist change, fear control of others, and continue to fight in conflict.

We don't have to be a member of this group or that group
to play an equal part in this transformation process
that all humanity must undergo at some point
if we are going to reach maturity.

We are not all in the same stages of development,
and that's another reason why it looks so crazy.
Life is a like a one-room school where the 2 year olds
and 12 year olds are thrown in with the college level interns
and professor level scholars. We have to learn to organize
and help each other to grow, not fight over control to
kick people out of the class who are causing problems.
We need to solve those problems that aren't going to
go away just by getting rid of people. The problems still
carry from one generation to the next, so we need to
work smarter and figure out how to make the most of
each person and each group's and culture's best strong points.

it's too easy to get caught up in the blame game.
When we are ready, we'll move forward and ask how
can we correct things and improve and build instead of
abolish, divide and destroy. how do we work together
to rebuild relations and direct our energies and talents
in the maximum way to achieve the greatest sustainable good.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You continue to make this about you and I, despite me driving home it is about ethical systems, one based upon the Bible, the other based upon an individual's feelings at the moment. If you can ever get past this is not about you, let me know.
Have a good day.

There were 999 other religions that came before and after Christianity. Christianity just happens to be our societies main religion. Are ethics much different in Israel? Did the Jews have ethics morals and laws before Christianity was born?

I chose Christianity because that is what the haters hate the most. They are terrified of Islam so give it a wide berth, Buddhism, Hinduism and all the other claptrap are widely accepted by them. I have my theory as to why, but that's a different topic.

What I'm waiting for is an answer from the haters what's the problem of believing in the delusion of Christianity.

Let me know when being an atheist stops bothering you theists.

It shouldn't bother you if a politician or your child believes. If it does, that's the problem.

Who says your beliefs bothers anyone? Your beliefs are yours to decide. It's the haters who try to crush Christianity.

Oh it does. If not why have the discussion?

And if I feel your religion is a lie and bad for people, I'm going to let everyone know.

Shouldn't potential members hear all the facts?

Don't say our beliefs don't bother you people. You don't want us telling people they're being scammed. If your books make sense it would be easy to show why we are wrong but we're ruining your scam.
Not just Christianity all organized religions. I want us to evolve beyond that bullshit

Figures you avoid the question too and go into the typical hater rant.