Why Emphasizing Manufacturing Jobs is a Mistake

The problem with Toro's logic is that he assumes that every American has the potential to become a white collar employee AND he assumes, like a giant punchline, that white collar jobs are not just as, if not easier, easy to outsource than blue collar jobs. While no parent wants their kid to grow up and become a factory worker it's nothing but a lesson in complete fail to assume that the entire population, across the board, is equally capable of performing the same type of job as everyone else. Ironic position too, btw.

Every time you silly little guys find yourselves out in the REAL world and get frustrated with slow drivers, shitty service, slow turnaround, dull stimulus, etc, go ahead and ask yourself if the people frustrating you are REALLY capable of being a fucking JAVA PROGRAMMER. And then ask yourself what a white collar MANAGER will do with no blue collar workers to MANAGE. and THEN ask yourself why all those call centers that we heard about in the 90s always seem to be staffed by "Tom Smiths" with a heavy Indian accent. Lord fucking knows that our AMERICAN, rural small towns that historically USED TO produce the majority of our FORMER SCOPE OF AMERICAN PRODUCTS sure the fuck could use another generation of Wal Mart managers and Insurance Salesmen.




Indeed, it's this kind of hip shot aiming that causes the believers of FMC to become quite the laughing stock and excuses machine after we find out, AND WE ALWAYS DO FIND OUT, that the dangled carrot they offer is rotten to the core while bait and switching their cult-like dogma for cheap labor inducing rhetoric.



Crazy, really.
 
Oh man. In my estimation, that is one of the dumbest, most ridiculous articles ever. It's difficult to know where to start.

Farming - increased production comes at a cost, fertilizer and pesticides and their overuse are ruining our drinking water, streams, rivers and oceans. Information is so easy to find on that, I will continue.

Not everyone can be an engineer. What about all those Republicans who live in poor states in trailers? With no manufacturing jobs, what are they going to do? Not everyone can work at a McDonald's. Those people already vote against their own self-interests in everything from health care and education to taxes and security.

Only 6% of scientists are Republican.

-----------------------

Consider your TV, car, refrigerator, stove, and calculator in the 1970s compared to what you have today. They are better, faster, safer, and more effective.

------------------------

Yea, and NOT made here. If only a few people can afford those things, only a few will be sold. That doesn't take a rocket scientist. Plus, you need people to FIX the machines that make the machines. Without a "liberal elitists education in science or engineering", what will those Republicans do?

------------------------

In the United States, the increase in white collar labor means that we are becoming a nation of thinkers -- web designers, engineers, marketers, IP lawyers, deal guys, inventors, dreamers, and mavericks.

-------------------------

Engineers, inventors, thinkers? Does that sound even remotely Republican? We're talking "Tea baggers" here.

Losing manufacturing is bad enough for the Democrats, but it's even more devastating for the country because now you have all those loony ARMED Republicans, angry and with nothing to do.

You are a complete lunkhead. If I doubted it earlier, you have it proved right here.
All our improvements in farming are due solely to fertilizer run off? WTF? Do you have a clue what you are talking about?
Have you ever met a Republican? I mean really. I doubt it personally as your descriptions hardly mesh with anything I know for a fact. Besides, I thought the Republicans were the party of the rich? Remember that one? Only rich people were Republicans so they could exploit the poor factory workers, the ones making only $100k with full benefits.
Oops, maybe that stereotype outlived its usefulness as the truth became known.

In fact the Democrats are the ones destroying this country. There is not a major school system that has not been under control of the Democrats in this country for 40 years. And the results are dismal. There is not a major welfare program that has not been designed and administrered by a Democrat in 50 years. And look a tthe results of that. Family structres blown apart, rampant alcohol and drug abuse, physical violence etc. There is not a major city that has not been under Democratic dominance for 30+ years and in every one there is crime, poverty, and hopelessness. So tell me again how Republicans are destroying this country. Tell me how Republicans don't beleive in education. Tell me how Republicans are against the family and working people.
No, the enemy here is the Democrats, the Party of Fuck You.



:rofl:


YEA! because EVERY FAMILY was just like BEAVER CLEAVER'S when republicans held office! NO ONE TOOK DRUGS OR EVEN DRANK ALCOHOL! WIFE BEATING? :rofl:


Take your fucking ass to israel, shlomo, if you want to cry foul. THIS is not your country.
 
All anyone needs in a college degree and he whill get an above average job?

That is the grand irony here... Watch as the usual proponents of Supply and Demand all of a sudden forget how the value of higher education declines WHEN EVERYONE HAS A FUCKING B.A.


but, again, this isn't a movement based on logic. These people hold the same kind of blind fanaticism that Jim Jones depended on when offering grape flavor aid.
 
Oh man. In my estimation, that is one of the dumbest, most ridiculous articles ever. It's difficult to know where to start.

Farming - increased production comes at a cost, fertilizer and pesticides and their overuse are ruining our drinking water, streams, rivers and oceans. Information is so easy to find on that, I will continue.

Not everyone can be an engineer. What about all those Republicans who live in poor states in trailers? With no manufacturing jobs, what are they going to do? Not everyone can work at a McDonald's. Those people already vote against their own self-interests in everything from health care and education to taxes and security.

Only 6% of scientists are Republican.

-----------------------

Consider your TV, car, refrigerator, stove, and calculator in the 1970s compared to what you have today. They are better, faster, safer, and more effective.

------------------------

Yea, and NOT made here. If only a few people can afford those things, only a few will be sold. That doesn't take a rocket scientist. Plus, you need people to FIX the machines that make the machines. Without a "liberal elitists education in science or engineering", what will those Republicans do?

------------------------

In the United States, the increase in white collar labor means that we are becoming a nation of thinkers -- web designers, engineers, marketers, IP lawyers, deal guys, inventors, dreamers, and mavericks.

-------------------------

Engineers, inventors, thinkers? Does that sound even remotely Republican? We're talking "Tea baggers" here.

Losing manufacturing is bad enough for the Democrats, but it's even more devastating for the country because now you have all those loony ARMED Republicans, angry and with nothing to do.
What kind of manufacturing plant do you want your child to work in?

The reason America led the world in productivity is because of what we produce. The products in the world market-place that we sell brings money into our economy.

How hard is that to understand????:cuckoo:

It doesn't matter how menial the job is...it is essential to our economy. Too bad that it seems beneath you to ever work in a factory of your kids work in a factory.

Problem is we have a trade imbalance because other countries produce more goods then we do and we buy them and the result is they have growing economies and we don't. Example: China and India.
 
Last edited:
All anyone needs in a college degree and he whill get an above average job?

That is the grand irony here... Watch as the usual proponents of Supply and Demand all of a sudden forget how the value of higher education declines WHEN EVERYONE HAS A FUCKING B.A.


but, again, this isn't a movement based on logic. These people hold the same kind of blind fanaticism that Jim Jones depended on when offering grape flavor aid.

I will say I am glad to see that:
1) You can post on topics that have nothing to do with Jews;
2) You still sound like an idiot, no matter what topic you post on.

Now you can go back on iggy where you belong.
 
Oh man. In my estimation, that is one of the dumbest, most ridiculous articles ever. It's difficult to know where to start.

Farming - increased production comes at a cost, fertilizer and pesticides and their overuse are ruining our drinking water, streams, rivers and oceans. Information is so easy to find on that, I will continue.

Not everyone can be an engineer. What about all those Republicans who live in poor states in trailers? With no manufacturing jobs, what are they going to do? Not everyone can work at a McDonald's. Those people already vote against their own self-interests in everything from health care and education to taxes and security.

Only 6% of scientists are Republican.

-----------------------

Consider your TV, car, refrigerator, stove, and calculator in the 1970s compared to what you have today. They are better, faster, safer, and more effective.

------------------------

Yea, and NOT made here. If only a few people can afford those things, only a few will be sold. That doesn't take a rocket scientist. Plus, you need people to FIX the machines that make the machines. Without a "liberal elitists education in science or engineering", what will those Republicans do?

------------------------

In the United States, the increase in white collar labor means that we are becoming a nation of thinkers -- web designers, engineers, marketers, IP lawyers, deal guys, inventors, dreamers, and mavericks.

-------------------------

Engineers, inventors, thinkers? Does that sound even remotely Republican? We're talking "Tea baggers" here.

Losing manufacturing is bad enough for the Democrats, but it's even more devastating for the country because now you have all those loony ARMED Republicans, angry and with nothing to do.
What kind of manufacturing plant do you want your child to work in?

The reason America led the world in productivity is because of what we produce. The products in the world market-place that we sell brings money into our economy.

How hard is that to understand????:cuckoo:

It doesn't matter how menial the job is...it is essential to our economy. Too bad that it seems beneath you to ever work in a factory of your kids work in a factory.

Problem is we have a trade imbalance because other countries produce more goods then we do and we buy them and the result is they have growing economies and we don't. Example: China and India.

I thought AG products were our best exports now?
 
The problem with Toro's logic is that he assumes that every American has the potential to become a white collar employee AND he assumes, like a giant punchline, that white collar jobs are not just as, if not easier, easy to outsource than blue collar jobs. While no parent wants their kid to grow up and become a factory worker it's nothing but a lesson in complete fail to assume that the entire population, across the board, is equally capable of performing the same type of job as everyone else. Ironic position too, btw.

Nobody is making any of these assumptions. Simply because someone is good on a production line does not mean that someone is good in an office. But likewise, just because someone is good in the office does not mean they are good on the production line. It has never been like that. Technological progress ALWAYS displaces jobs.

I read this last night, and I can't link this, but this from Grant's Interest Rate Observer, dated October 30,2009, on a report by the US Commissioner of Labor.

n his report for 1886, he discussed the alarming speed with which new machinery was displacing human labor in American factories. In the previous 15 or 20 years, he reported, in the case of one industry alone - agriculture - machinery had pushed aside "fully 50% of the muscular labor formerly employed; as, for instance, hammers and dies have done away with the most particular labor on a plow."


That is 1886.

As you can see, he had the same concerns you do. Yet, America is far richer and produces far more jobs, and far different jobs, than it did 125 years ago.

Today, a quarter of all Americans work in jobs that the Census Bureau didn't even list as occupations in 1967.
 
Last edited:
All anyone needs in a college degree and he whill get an above average job?

That is the grand irony here... Watch as the usual proponents of Supply and Demand all of a sudden forget how the value of higher education declines WHEN EVERYONE HAS A FUCKING B.A.


but, again, this isn't a movement based on logic. These people hold the same kind of blind fanaticism that Jim Jones depended on when offering grape flavor aid.

I will say I am glad to see that:
1) You can post on topics that have nothing to do with Jews;
2) You still sound like an idiot, no matter what topic you post on.

Now you can go back on iggy where you belong.

Aren't you supposed to have me blocked like you'd claimed to do time and again, killer? Go ahead and leave the shit talking to those of us who are good at it and I'll go ahead and leave the blood drinking to your special kind of zionistic jew, m'kay?
 
Nobody is making any of these assumptions. Simply because someone is good on a production line does not mean that someone is good in an office. But likewise, just because someone is good in the office does not mean they are good on the production line. It has never been like that. Technological progress ALWAYS displaces jobs.

Indeed, we probably don't have as many candle makers as we did in 1776. However, this nation has NEVER tried to purge itself of blue collar employment until capitalistas came along insisting that globalization nullifies out necessity to produce a domestic product. And, again, there will ALWAYS be a vast range of ability across any nation which dictates that we must retain production for the sake of those who will never become JAVA PROGRAMMERS. Think about it, Toro, The Greatest Generation wasn't trying to fool itself with the bullshit assumption that everyone in America can just get a white collar job while we export blue collar to cheap labor slave nations.

and, again, it's not as if there is ANY real reason white collar jobs can't be outsources like production HAS BEEN. Tried to call a tech support line lately, Toro? Have any language barriers become as obvious as the day is long?
 
What kind of manufacturing plant do you want your child to work in?

The reason America led the world in productivity is because of what we produce. The products in the world market-place that we sell brings money into our economy.

How hard is that to understand????:cuckoo:

It doesn't matter how menial the job is...it is essential to our economy. Too bad that it seems beneath you to ever work in a factory of your kids work in a factory.

Problem is we have a trade imbalance because other countries produce more goods then we do and we buy them and the result is they have growing economies and we don't. Example: China and India.

I thought AG products were our best exports now?

I wouldn't mind sending a few bullets and missiles down range. But the recipients may not want to buy them.
 
Nobody is making any of these assumptions. Simply because someone is good on a production line does not mean that someone is good in an office. But likewise, just because someone is good in the office does not mean they are good on the production line. It has never been like that. Technological progress ALWAYS displaces jobs.

Indeed, we probably don't have as many candle makers as we did in 1776. However, this nation has NEVER tried to purge itself of blue collar employment until capitalistas came along insisting that globalization nullifies out necessity to produce a domestic product. And, again, there will ALWAYS be a vast range of ability across any nation which dictates that we must retain production for the sake of those who will never become JAVA PROGRAMMERS. Think about it, Toro, The Greatest Generation wasn't trying to fool itself with the bullshit assumption that everyone in America can just get a white collar job while we export blue collar to cheap labor slave nations.

and, again, it's not as if there is ANY real reason white collar jobs can't be outsources like production HAS BEEN. Tried to call a tech support line lately, Toro? Have any language barriers become as obvious as the day is long?

They made the same argument about agriculture 100 years ago when agriculture was the biggest employer in this country.

I'm extremely aware that white collar jobs are outsourced. But that's not the point. Its not a blue collar / white collar thing. Its about higher productivity jobs. When lower productivity jobs get commoditized, including white collar jobs, they are going to leave. The new jobs will be in industries which are higher productivity than what is being replaced.
 
The problem with Toro's logic is that he assumes that every American has the potential to become a white collar employee AND he assumes, like a giant punchline, that white collar jobs are not just as, if not easier, easy to outsource than blue collar jobs. While no parent wants their kid to grow up and become a factory worker it's nothing but a lesson in complete fail to assume that the entire population, across the board, is equally capable of performing the same type of job as everyone else. Ironic position too, btw.

Nobody is making any of these assumptions. Simply because someone is good on a production line does not mean that someone is good in an office. But likewise, just because someone is good in the office does not mean they are good on the production line. It has never been like that. Technological progress ALWAYS displaces jobs.

I read this last night, and I can't link this, but this from Grant's Interest Rate Observer, dated October 30,2009, on a report by the US Commissioner of Labor.

n his report for 1886, he discussed the alarming speed with which new machinery was displacing human labor in American factories. In the previous 15 or 20 years, he reported, in the case of one industry alone - agriculture - machinery had pushed aside "fully 50% of the muscular labor formerly employed; as, for instance, hammers and dies have done away with the most particular labor on a plow."


That is 1886.

As you can see, he had the same concerns you do. Yet, America is far richer and produces far more jobs, and far different jobs, than it did 125 years ago.

Today, a quarter of all Americans work in jobs that the Census Bureau didn't even list as occupations in 1967.


Yeah I don't think political punditry was a job back then.
 
Nobody is making any of these assumptions. Simply because someone is good on a production line does not mean that someone is good in an office. But likewise, just because someone is good in the office does not mean they are good on the production line. It has never been like that. Technological progress ALWAYS displaces jobs.

Indeed, we probably don't have as many candle makers as we did in 1776. However, this nation has NEVER tried to purge itself of blue collar employment until capitalistas came along insisting that globalization nullifies out necessity to produce a domestic product. And, again, there will ALWAYS be a vast range of ability across any nation which dictates that we must retain production for the sake of those who will never become JAVA PROGRAMMERS. Think about it, Toro, The Greatest Generation wasn't trying to fool itself with the bullshit assumption that everyone in America can just get a white collar job while we export blue collar to cheap labor slave nations.

and, again, it's not as if there is ANY real reason white collar jobs can't be outsources like production HAS BEEN. Tried to call a tech support line lately, Toro? Have any language barriers become as obvious as the day is long?

They made the same argument about agriculture 100 years ago when agriculture was the biggest employer in this country.

I'm extremely aware that white collar jobs are outsourced. But that's not the point. Its not a blue collar / white collar thing. Its about higher productivity jobs. When lower productivity jobs get commoditized, including white collar jobs, they are going to leave. The new jobs will be in industries which are higher productivity than what is being replaced.

Did you try to purposefully walk into that? Hey Toro.... WE STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AND NECESSARY AGRICULTURE SECTOR.

No, dude, it IS the point. If you have no will to retain domestic opportunity in the blue then why the hell should we expect you to do so for white? REGARDLESS of the productivity. The FACTOR that you don't want to admit is that, to FMC, any kind of drastic reduction in the price of labor, blue OR white, is defined as "more efficient" and thereby "More Efficient" in your silly little econ logic. Thus, there is absolutely no way that the US could possibly retain it's comparatively high SOL when EVERY employment opportunity can be jettisoned to India. do you want to see an America that looks as widely class scaled as INDIA, Toro? It's not a matter of "they are going to leave" when Americans still want them, dude. It really has nothing to do with a static location (America) as long as your criteria remains mere productivity. Who do you think makes more shoes faster, Toro: Shoe factories in America where we have things like OSHA standards or sweat shops in China where the SOL is so fucking meager than ANY opportunity, for pennies on the dollar, is better than starving on the street?
 
Last edited:
Did you try to purposefully walk into that? Hey Toro.... WE STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AND NECESSARY AGRICULTURE SECTOR.

Yes, we produce many, many times more agricultural products than we did 100 years ago in an industry that employs far fewer people. Food is far less a proportion of our family budgets than it was in the past because food production has become far more efficient because of technological progress. Yet, we have, what, 100 million more jobs than we did back then?

That is the point.
 
Did you try to purposefully walk into that? Hey Toro.... WE STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AND NECESSARY AGRICULTURE SECTOR.

Yes, we produce many, many times more agricultural products than we did 100 years ago in an industry that employs far fewer people. Food is far less a proportion of our family budgets than it was in the past because food production has become far more efficient because of technological progress. Yet, we have, what, 100 million more jobs than we did back then?

That is the point.

food is actually a higher portion of our family budget.
This is due to the fact that we mostly eat out and eat heat em eatum foods instead or preparing our own from basic AG products.
 
Did you try to purposefully walk into that? Hey Toro.... WE STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AND NECESSARY AGRICULTURE SECTOR.

Yes, we produce many, many times more agricultural products than we did 100 years ago in an industry that employs far fewer people. Food is far less a proportion of our family budgets than it was in the past because food production has become far more efficient because of technological progress. Yet, we have, what, 100 million more jobs than we did back then?

That is the point.

food is actually a higher portion of our family budget.
This is due to the fact that we mostly eat out and eat heat em eatum foods instead or preparing our own from basic AG products.

It may be a higher proportion of your budget but that isn't the case for the nation as a whole. We spend less on essentials such as food relative to income than we have in the past.
 
Did you try to purposefully walk into that? Hey Toro.... WE STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AND NECESSARY AGRICULTURE SECTOR.

Yes, we produce many, many times more agricultural products than we did 100 years ago in an industry that employs far fewer people. Food is far less a proportion of our family budgets than it was in the past because food production has become far more efficient because of technological progress. Yet, we have, what, 100 million more jobs than we did back then?

That is the point.

Clearly, You are not a fan of Farm Aid. Hear any good stories about windfall farmers over the last 40 years, dude? Are those AMERICAN FARMERS not worth your time? Do you think our food is BETTER for us now or WORSE for us after it becomes processed into efficiency?

go tell it to Willie Nelson when he performs another year for the benefit of ANOTHER Farm Aid.
 
Yes, we produce many, many times more agricultural products than we did 100 years ago in an industry that employs far fewer people. Food is far less a proportion of our family budgets than it was in the past because food production has become far more efficient because of technological progress. Yet, we have, what, 100 million more jobs than we did back then?

That is the point.

food is actually a higher portion of our family budget.
This is due to the fact that we mostly eat out and eat heat em eatum foods instead or preparing our own from basic AG products.

It may be a higher proportion of your budget but that isn't the case for the nation as a whole. We spend less on essentials such as food relative to income than we have in the past.

those stats are misleading, they only track grocery store purchases. Not those at McDonalds, pizza hut, etc.

We spend less on essientials such as gas and energy?

Note that our 2 most expensive items food and energy are generally left out of published CPI figures.
 
Last edited:
Did you try to purposefully walk into that? Hey Toro.... WE STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AND NECESSARY AGRICULTURE SECTOR.

Yes, we produce many, many times more agricultural products than we did 100 years ago in an industry that employs far fewer people. Food is far less a proportion of our family budgets than it was in the past because food production has become far more efficient because of technological progress. Yet, we have, what, 100 million more jobs than we did back then?

That is the point.

Clearly, You are not a fan of Farm Aid. Hear any good stories about windfall farmers over the last 40 years, dude? Are those AMERICAN FARMERS not worth your time? Do you think our food is BETTER for us now or WORSE for us after it becomes processed into efficiency?

go tell it to Willie Nelson when he performs another year for the benefit of ANOTHER Farm Aid.

That has what to do with the amount of food that is produced in America compared to the past?

In 2008, farm income was at an all-time high as wheat, corn, soybeans, sugar, all hit or approached record levels.

valueofcroplivestock7009.jpg


Payments_nfi7009.jpg
 

Forum List

Back
Top