why do we spend so much money on education, and have so little results

Discussion in 'Education' started by actsnoblemartin, Jul 15, 2007.

  1. actsnoblemartin
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    actsnoblemartin I love Andrea & April

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    why do college, and even some high schools, have such liberal bias?.

    Why isnt free speech, and more open debate promoted, and why arent students taught how to critically analyze/think, rather then told what to think.

    what would you do to improve education?, what do you like/dislike about education

    your thoughts?
     
  2. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    How much ws spent on you, martin? Think about it.
     
  3. BaronVonBigmeat
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    BaronVonBigmeat Senior Member

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    The reason is because government runs it, for the most part.

    And the part which is "private", is heavily regulated by the state. There is little room for innovation and so forth.
     
  4. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    Straw Man, bullshit or simple ignorance.


    Care to share where you heard that miscalculation or is it just a repetition of something you heard in a subway?

    USPS, VA, TVA and many more provide services that no private industry could provide at a fraction of the cost.

    Bullshit is bullshit. You speak bullshit.
     
  5. Doug
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    Doug Active Member

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    The Derb says it all, right here.
     
  6. BaronVonBigmeat
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    BaronVonBigmeat Senior Member

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    Err wait, you're using the postal service as an example? Surely you have heard of UPS, FedEx, DHL? Surely it would not be a stretch for them to deliver the mail? (They can't deliver regular mail, because the USPS has a legal monopoly).

    Also, TVA sucks too, because government economic planning sucks in general. Sure, you can provide Product A at a sub-market cost in one place, but everyone else will have to pay more. Here's what Ronald Reagan had to say about it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority
     
  7. Shogun
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    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

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    I think we should review why kids are not motivated to excell in education rather than throw it to the wolves of private enterprise. Ill see your UPS/USPS example and raise you with damn near EVERY NURSING HOME IN THE MIDWES. If you want to see the fruits of private enterprise in an industry that isn't profitable, like education isn't, then go take your dear old grandma down to the local private nursing home in the midwest. Really give that free trade capitalism thing a high five when you see her again and she smells like piss and bologna.



    I've said it before but it bears repeating. Instead of using new dollars to pay for outdatable computers, teachers salaries when they get M.A.'s and a union membership, high tech facilities we should prepare them for what it is like when they graduate by assimilating them into a system of positive reinforcement for their effort. Pay the kids. None of you would work if you didn't get paid to do so. You don't get off knowing that you are learning something new or getting better at what you know. Same here. This isn't an age where kids want to learn in order to get off the farm and not be a farmer. Nor is it a time where segregation makes an equal opportunity sweet. Nor is it a time where apprenticeships are around to let them know what it's like to have a master. Pay the kids. Not only will they learn to associate self sufficiency with their own effort (which will reduce a sense of entitlement) but it will also allow an opportunity to have funds saved for post-HS life. It can act as a deterrent for dropping out of school. It could pay on a scale according to effort. It's about motivating kids instead of paying a teachers salary. No Child Left Behind doesn't work because kids have a RANGE of abilities and life circumstances. Private Schools will only work for those who can AFFORD to send their kids to better schools while anyone else gets to fuck off. We need, and clearly benefit from, public schools. I think it's just a matter of coming up with new ideas that will motivate the kids to take advantage of the effort to prepare them for life in America.
     
  8. jasendorf
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    jasendorf Senior Member

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    Oh, this one's too easy.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. karlos4473
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    karlos4473 Rookie

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    As a former teacher of considerable experience I can speak with an inside
    perspective. Where the student body is good, the school is good.
    The attempt to school kids from bad homes is overwhelming. A few who
    have a strong parent will overcome and escape a crap neighborhood.
    The remainder will be fortunate to land a job at Walmart or Radio
    Shack. Many will end up in the justice system. We don't need
    Leave no Child Behind or other public relations bullshit. A better
    idea is to find a place to warehouse the uneducable. I welcome
    your responses. Peace brother and find somebode to egekate Bush.
     
  10. Gem
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    Gem BANNED

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    I think that the problem with education (and for complete disclosure: I am a teacher with a dual M.Ed. in Elementary and Special Education who is certified to teach elementary, special, middle school math and middle school English) is the giant elephant in the room that none of our politicians are talking about.

    Just listen to them. They will talk a lot about standards and testing. They will talk a lot about teacher education and training, teacher salaries, etc. They will talk about moving students from poor districts to wealthy ones...or they will talk about giving families the choice of what district their children attend. They will talk about holding teachers accountable for the success of the student. They will talk about requiring students to pass basic achievement tests in order to graduate. They will go on and on and on....

    But they will never mention that unless a parent/guardian is reinforcing the notion that education is worthwhile, important, and that their child is required to put in some effort in order to remain out of trouble at home...often all of the great intentions of the educators and administrators are in vain.

    I like to think that I am a pretty good teacher. I am young however, so I know I have a lot to learn. However, I do know that students can learn from bad teachers and good teachers alike - they just enjoy the good teachers a lot more, and tend to retain more of what they learned for longer periods of time.

    But truthfully, and I am being painfully honest here...if your parents say to you and stick to the belief that "Your job in this house is to get an education. And frankly, we don't care if you hate the teacher...you will bring home a B or better or there will be hell to pay." Your child (provided he/she is of average intelligence without any learning disabilities or emotional disabilities that may come into play - although in many cases this would apply to these students as well) will figure out a way to pass the asshole teacher's class as successfully or almost as successfully as the awesome teacher's class.

    Please understand, I think that teachers are integral to the process. I think that good educators can make all the difference in the world. I, if I do my job well, can inspire a love of learning in my students that can last a lifetime. I can awaken their minds to the joys of mathematics, English literature, world cultures, etc. I can be there for them when they need me and help to teach them trust, loyalty, responsibility, discipline, and how hard work can pay off. I can teach them to be kind, good people (who know how to do basic Algebra and value the importance of history).

    But if I don't have a parent on my side...the job is often, almost impossible.

    Politicians seem to be interested in pointing the finger everywhere else on earth...except at parents. YOU have to make school a priority in your home.
    And I do not seem that happening for many students in my class.

    Some examples:

    - After assigning a math project and giving my students a 4 day weekend to complete it...one of my students came in with a note from his mother reading: "Bobby had a busy weekend with sports and family events. We just could not get to all of his assignments. I hope you understand."

    - When calling a parent to discuss my concerns about her son not paying attention in class and not turning in work she stated "Thank you so much for calling. I have been working on the honor system here that the boys were getting their work done and I guess we'll just have to go back to the method of the boys sitting around the table while I sit there and watch them do their work." Sounds great, right? While flipping back through this students file I saw a record of a phone call from last March, when the previous teacher had called about homework concerns...Mom had said, "He's been doing his homework in his room and I've just been taking his word that its done, you know...like the honor system. From now on he and his brothers will be doing their work with me at the kitchen table."

    - When calling a parent to discuss a paper that a student hadn't turned in, a father told a fellow teacher - "Just get off his ass...you get him from 7 till 3...after that...what he wants to do is up to him...get off his ass."

    I could go on and on...but the bottom line is: I can teach my little butt off, I can come up with interesting, hands-on, amazing lessons, create assessments that are valid and worthwhile...but if I have parents who are absent, uncaring, or downright hostile to the importance of their child's education...my job has gone from damn tough to almost impossible.

    And yet...I have yet to hear a politician say much of anything other than "We need to hold teachers accountable..." I can tell you right now...I am REALLY F*CKING ACCOUNTABLE for my students' education. My school district is REALLY ACCOUNTABLE, my state is REALLY ACCOUNTABLE.

    In fact, the only people who don't seem to be accountable for my students' educations are the students themselves and their parents.
     

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