CDZ Why do some people feel threatened by Gay marriage & equality for Gays

[JoeMoma]

Not threatened by gays......I know it will be used to attack churches the same way it is now used to attack bakers, photographers and wedding planners.......

so make your stand as "they have a right to marry or whatever, they don't have a right to force others to work for them , take part in their weddings or otherwise be nice to them" rather than "marriage is for a man and a woman only"

In the Catholic church it is.....and they should be allowed that belief. I believe in civil unions for all, religious ceremonies for the religious.......

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

 

[Hossfly]

Not threatened by gays......I know it will be used to attack churches the same way it is now used to attack bakers, photographers and wedding planners.......

so make your stand as "they have a right to marry or whatever, they don't have a right to force others to work for them , take part in their weddings or otherwise be nice to them" rather than "marriage is for a man and a woman only"

In the Catholic church it is.....and they should be allowed that belief. I believe in civil unions for all, religious ceremonies for the religious.......

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

 

[phoenyx]

I suspect that there might be a few answers.

Perhaps its a hangover from a previous age where homosexuality was illegal and frowned upon ?

Possibly due to ignorance.

Possibly due to their religious teachings.

Maybe something in their own psyche that drives it.

I say all of the above .

My own view is quite simplistic. Its none of my business who people want to shag. And it doesnt affect me in any way if two people of the same sex want to get hitched. Good luck to them, we need more love in the world.

Amen.

I would suggest that my view is a conservative one and is shared by the majority of decent conservatives.

In our lifetime homosexual activity could get you arrested, and it still could in some of the more backward countries of the world. Do you want to see us make common cause with the likes of Saudi Arabia ?

Some clearly do...

 

[phoenyx]

so make your stand as "they have a right to marry or whatever, they don't have a right to force others to work for them , take part in their weddings or otherwise be nice to them" rather than "marriage is for a man and a woman only"

In the Catholic church it is.....and they should be allowed that belief. I believe in civil unions for all, religious ceremonies for the religious.......

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

Personally, I like the types of stories that can be verified myself. That's not to say that the bible isn't a very interesting book. I have read books and seen a film that have brought up points in it that I found to be quite intriguing. What began to get my interest was when I read a book called "The Da Vinci Code". After seeing the movie of the same name, I was even more interested. One day, while checking out a bookstore, I found one of the books it was based on, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"- unlike The Da Vinci Code, Holy Blood, Holy Grail was not a book of fiction, but an investigative work by 3 authors. I've since read other books discussing the bible. What they all have in common is that they don't see the bible as a book written by God, but instead a book written by men. The difference is a large one.

 

[Hossfly]

In the Catholic church it is.....and they should be allowed that belief. I believe in civil unions for all, religious ceremonies for the religious.......

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

Personally, I like the types of stories that can be verified myself. That's not to say that the bible isn't a very interesting book. I have read books and seen a film that have brought up points in it that I found to be quite intriguing. What began to get my interest was when I read a book called "The Da Vinci Code". After seeing the movie of the same name, I was even more interested. One day, while checking out a bookstore, I found one of the books it was based on, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"- unlike The Da Vinci Code, Holy Blood, Holy Grail was not a book of fiction, but an investigative work by 3 authors. I've since read other books discussing the bible. What they all have in common is that they don't see the bible as a book written by God, but instead a book written by men. The difference is a large one.

The Bible was written by men who were inspired by God. That's the difference.

 

[phoenyx]

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

Personally, I like the types of stories that can be verified myself. That's not to say that the bible isn't a very interesting book. I have read books and seen a film that have brought up points in it that I found to be quite intriguing. What began to get my interest was when I read a book called "The Da Vinci Code". After seeing the movie of the same name, I was even more interested. One day, while checking out a bookstore, I found one of the books it was based on, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"- unlike The Da Vinci Code, Holy Blood, Holy Grail was not a book of fiction, but an investigative work by 3 authors. I've since read other books discussing the bible. What they all have in common is that they don't see the bible as a book written by God, but instead a book written by men. The difference is a large one.

The Bible was written by men who were inspired by God. That's the difference.

Or atleast by men who thought they were inspired by God. Or perhaps it's just men who claimed they thought they were inspired by God. And then there were the men who decided what would be in the bible, and what wouldn't. Few if any of the writers in the final book were women. Sounds like politics was involved. Just sayin'...

 

[320 Years of History]

The Bible was written by men who were inspired by God. That's the difference.

So some of them said...God has yet to corroborate their claim.

 

[phoenyx]

The Bible was written by men who were inspired by God. That's the difference.

So some of them said...God has yet to corroborate their claim.

Lol

 

[JoeMoma]

so make your stand as "they have a right to marry or whatever, they don't have a right to force others to work for them , take part in their weddings or otherwise be nice to them" rather than "marriage is for a man and a woman only"

In the Catholic church it is.....and they should be allowed that belief. I believe in civil unions for all, religious ceremonies for the religious.......

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

I have many times. There is no mention of a wedding, so if they were husband and wife it's simply because they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

 

[Holos]

In the Catholic church it is.....and they should be allowed that belief. I believe in civil unions for all, religious ceremonies for the religious.......

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

Personally, I like the types of stories that can be verified myself. That's not to say that the bible isn't a very interesting book. I have read books and seen a film that have brought up points in it that I found to be quite intriguing. What began to get my interest was when I read a book called "The Da Vinci Code". After seeing the movie of the same name, I was even more interested. One day, while checking out a bookstore, I found one of the books it was based on, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"- unlike The Da Vinci Code, Holy Blood, Holy Grail was not a book of fiction, but an investigative work by 3 authors. I've since read other books discussing the bible. What they all have in common is that they don't see the bible as a book written by God, but instead a book written by men. The difference is a large one.

I confess I have not read much of the Bible, but in my continuing readings I have not found any excerpt declaring the words were written by God, generally omitting singular authorship. Many references are made to scribes, and also to the various forms words take (spoken, written, thought of, numbered, codified, categorized, and all the more complex). The translated versions generally have the academic team who worked on producing that specific version in the introduction, either informing further on what version it was translated from or at least from what language, so that you can continue your study unto established knowledge (in the final form of the book's total content, whatever version or language it may be in).

Compare, for example, the first passage of the whole collection with the first passage of the book of John (after 30 and more books within the Bible):

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

and

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The work is colossal, but there is nothing lacking in it, and it comes to be especially complex because it compresses so much of its full range and procedures. Only about 1000 pages total, but then thousands upon thousands of separate works referring to it, from books, paintings and songs to complete architectural buildings intricately decorated with all kinds of materials and made to be comfortable and welcoming to any interested party.

There is nothing about the Biblical story that cannot be verified by you. It's not simply interesting, it's educational.

 

[Holos]

In the Catholic church it is.....and they should be allowed that belief. I believe in civil unions for all, religious ceremonies for the religious.......

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

I have many times. There is no mention of a wedding, so if they were husband and wife it's simply because they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

Genesis 2:24.

Not sure what you consider a family to be, that would be arguable parting from Genesis chapter 4 and chapter 5 I think, if husband and wife are not sufficient to be a family in your comprehension.

 

[JoeMoma]

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

I have many times. There is no mention of a wedding, so if they were husband and wife it's simply because they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

Genesis 2:24.

Not sure what you consider a family to be, that would be arguable parting from Genesis chapter 4 and chapter 5 I think, if husband and wife are not sufficient to be a family in your comprehension.

Thanks for backing me up. There was no wedding ceremony. They "became one flesh" figuratively by living together and having sex. Hence, they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

 

[Holos]

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

I have many times. There is no mention of a wedding, so if they were husband and wife it's simply because they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

Genesis 2:24.

Not sure what you consider a family to be, that would be arguable parting from Genesis chapter 4 and chapter 5 I think, if husband and wife are not sufficient to be a family in your comprehension.

Thanks for backing me up. There was no wedding ceremony. They "became one flesh" figuratively by living together and having sex. Hence, they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

Yes, there was a ceremony, and it concerned the man leaving his father and mother.

After the ceremony, your interpretation is just as valid as mine, whatever it may be, since you are one flesh and I am another.

 

[Holos]

they shacked up and started a family

Also, that assertion would not pertain directly to Adam and Eve, but would already be reaching their descendants through the descendants of Cain, more specifically the descendants of Jabal (sixth generation of Cain's descendants).

Before Cain all indication is that Adam and Eve were nomads.

 

[phoenyx]

Government marriage licenses are NOT religious. That's just a fact.

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

Personally, I like the types of stories that can be verified myself. That's not to say that the bible isn't a very interesting book. I have read books and seen a film that have brought up points in it that I found to be quite intriguing. What began to get my interest was when I read a book called "The Da Vinci Code". After seeing the movie of the same name, I was even more interested. One day, while checking out a bookstore, I found one of the books it was based on, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"- unlike The Da Vinci Code, Holy Blood, Holy Grail was not a book of fiction, but an investigative work by 3 authors. I've since read other books discussing the bible. What they all have in common is that they don't see the bible as a book written by God, but instead a book written by men. The difference is a large one.

I confess I have not read much of the Bible, but in my continuing readings I have not found any excerpt declaring the words were written by God, generally omitting singular authorship. Many references are made to scribes, and also to the various forms words take (spoken, written, thought of, numbered, codified, categorized, and all the more complex). The translated versions generally have the academic team who worked on producing that specific version in the introduction, either informing further on what version it was translated from or at least from what language, so that you can continue your study unto established knowledge (in the final form of the book's total content, whatever version or language it may be in).

Compare, for example, the first passage of the whole collection with the first passage of the book of John (after 30 and more books within the Bible):

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

and

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The work is colossal, but there is nothing lacking in it, and it comes to be especially complex because it compresses so much of its full range and procedures. Only about 1000 pages total, but then thousands upon thousands of separate works referring to it, from books, paintings and songs to complete architectural buildings intricately decorated with all kinds of materials and made to be comfortable and welcoming to any interested party.

There is nothing about the Biblical story that cannot be verified by you. It's not simply interesting, it's educational.

I'm not sure if we're actually disagreeing on anything here. I think the issue is how you're defining verification. What I mean is that I don't trust the bible to be historically accurate in a lot of cases. Do you?

 

[JoeMoma]

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

I have many times. There is no mention of a wedding, so if they were husband and wife it's simply because they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

Genesis 2:24.

Not sure what you consider a family to be, that would be arguable parting from Genesis chapter 4 and chapter 5 I think, if husband and wife are not sufficient to be a family in your comprehension.

Thanks for backing me up. There was no wedding ceremony. They "became one flesh" figuratively by living together and having sex. Hence, they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

Yes, there was a ceremony, and it concerned the man leaving his father and mother.

After the ceremony, your interpretation is just as valid as mine, whatever it may be, since you are one flesh and I am another.

Adam and Eve did not leave their mother and father.

 

[320 Years of History]

Read the story.

I have many times. There is no mention of a wedding, so if they were husband and wife it's simply because they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

Genesis 2:24.

Not sure what you consider a family to be, that would be arguable parting from Genesis chapter 4 and chapter 5 I think, if husband and wife are not sufficient to be a family in your comprehension.

Thanks for backing me up. There was no wedding ceremony. They "became one flesh" figuratively by living together and having sex. Hence, they shacked up and started a family -- common law marriage.

Yes, there was a ceremony, and it concerned the man leaving his father and mother.

After the ceremony, your interpretation is just as valid as mine, whatever it may be, since you are one flesh and I am another.

Adam and Eve did not leave their mother and father.

Yes, and Mary's was not the only immaculate conception. What's most striking, however, is not that there apparently were earlier immaculate conceptions, but that as one reads the Bible, they happened to men. That or Adam was the world's first magician to have mastered the "rib" trick.

Adam and Eve's Family Tree​

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I suspect that there might be a few answers.

Perhaps its a hangover from a previous age where homosexuality was illegal and frowned upon ?

Possibly due to ignorance.

Possibly due to their religious teachings.

Maybe something in their own psyche that drives it.

My own view is quite simplistic. Its none of my business who people want to shag. And it doesnt affect me in any way if two people of the same sex want to get hitched. Good luck to them, we need more love in the world.

I would suggest that my view is a conservative one and is shared by the majority of decent conservatives.

In our lifetime homosexual activity could get you arrested, and it still could in some of the more backward countries of the world. Do you want to see us make common cause with the likes of Saudi Arabia ?

Actually we look upon them as being filthy and carriers of germs, bacteria, and disease. I don't feel particularly at ease around anything that is unclean.

And this would be an example of the fear, ignorance, bigotry, and hate common to most on the right, and why conservatives seek to disadvantage gay Americans through force of law, in violation of the Constitution.

Strange to me that at the Navy Yard here in Pensacola, they had a guy in a shop to die from AIDS. The Navy had already held meetings telling all the employees there was absolutely nothing at all to fear. Amazingly, they sent a team of medical folks all covered with biological suits that covered their entire bodies to retrieve his tools and personal belongings.

You are aware that the anus carries a lot of very bad bacteria and that real damage to ones rectum can occur from gay sex. I also know you are aware that the life expectancy of gay males has been dropped well below the life expectancy of heterosexual males. But you go ahead and enjoy yourself. Just please stay away from me.

I believe the average life span of sodomites to be about 40 years of age. The reasons: death by suicide, disease,untimely accidents, murder, and so on.. That is terribly young. 40 years of age is terribly young when you consider that most men in our society live to 80 - 90 years old and beyond. Clearly it is something that God condemns.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What is being denied to gays? They can still have sex and live together. Just should not be allowed to call themselves husband and husband. It goes against human nature. Oh, and stop with the parades they are exhibitions in perversion.

What is being denied to gays? To answer your question, based on your own comments: Respect for their natural rights as human beings to express their funadamental nature and disposition; protection under the law for a life-long commitment which promotes stability and gives social validity to the union. Why you feel you have the right to take that away from others, I don't understand.

Why do you have a right to take it away from me? By allowing the watering down of traditional marraige it erodes society. The heterosexual family unit is the rock upon which our nation was built. By attacking traditional marraige you Attack the very fabric of my nation. I respect their right to love who ever they want. But your not entitled to weaken my society and hence my nation by destroying its very foundation. A doctor gets a license to practice because the social contract and the law allows it because it is a good thing. Same applies to marriage. When voters in California go to the polls and declare marraige is between a man and a woman for legal purposes...then socialist federal courts should not be allowed to usurp the will of the people and the social contract.

Besides hurting your tender feelings and delicate constitution, how has gay marriage personally effected your marriage?

Because now liberals are pushing it into schools as a legitimate product of a healthy society. It is not. All I'm saying is to each their own, but we must draw a line somewhere. I agree with Ronald Reagan:" Do what you want in your own bedroom, but leave the kids and the animals alone."

The Bible tells us to warn the wicked but we cannot "make them" obey the Lord and so the only thing we can do is warn them and then pray for them and let them know that there is help in Jesus Christ. Because in Christ they can be delivered from that spirit of perversity. Many sodomites have come to Christ and been delivered of that spirit and today are happily married to women. A lot of these people were sexually molested by homosexual / lesbian predators because that is part of the spirit of perversity.

The reason sodomites want to indoctrinate school children into believing this is normal behavior is simple. They cannot pro-create. They must recruit and this is how they do it. There was a very well done teaching on this subject by Lester Sumrall. I will see if I can find it. He shows how this began and the turning point which started with Anita Bryant speaking out.

I found this one from 1987. I'm still looking for the other one. It may be gone. About this video here: Lester Sumrall was a missionary to Manila and lived there for many years. The Lord called Sumrall to go back to America and warn them that there was a time coming where homosexuality would be openly celebrated and where Baal worship (satanists) would become prevalent throughout the land of America. Sumrall could hardly believe it! God told him a spirit of rebellion was coming upon America - We see this today everywhere - God told him there would be anarchy among the youth - in the streets, on the campus, in the homes - everywhere - everything the Lord told him in the 1980's is now happening today right before our eyes. Sadly this is leading to the judgment of God being poured out on America (one reason - there are other reasons too).


Dr. Sumrall died some years ago but his message on this video is still timely today.

 

[Holos]

Marriage is designed by God. God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. That is the only fact you need to know. If it had not been that way, we would not be having this discussion right now. Because there wouldn't have been pro-creation. Two men cannot have a child. Two women cannot have a child. The human race would die out.

When did Adam and Eve marry? Was their marriage of the common law variety?

Read the story.

Personally, I like the types of stories that can be verified myself. That's not to say that the bible isn't a very interesting book. I have read books and seen a film that have brought up points in it that I found to be quite intriguing. What began to get my interest was when I read a book called "The Da Vinci Code". After seeing the movie of the same name, I was even more interested. One day, while checking out a bookstore, I found one of the books it was based on, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"- unlike The Da Vinci Code, Holy Blood, Holy Grail was not a book of fiction, but an investigative work by 3 authors. I've since read other books discussing the bible. What they all have in common is that they don't see the bible as a book written by God, but instead a book written by men. The difference is a large one.

I confess I have not read much of the Bible, but in my continuing readings I have not found any excerpt declaring the words were written by God, generally omitting singular authorship. Many references are made to scribes, and also to the various forms words take (spoken, written, thought of, numbered, codified, categorized, and all the more complex). The translated versions generally have the academic team who worked on producing that specific version in the introduction, either informing further on what version it was translated from or at least from what language, so that you can continue your study unto established knowledge (in the final form of the book's total content, whatever version or language it may be in).

Compare, for example, the first passage of the whole collection with the first passage of the book of John (after 30 and more books within the Bible):

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

and

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The work is colossal, but there is nothing lacking in it, and it comes to be especially complex because it compresses so much of its full range and procedures. Only about 1000 pages total, but then thousands upon thousands of separate works referring to it, from books, paintings and songs to complete architectural buildings intricately decorated with all kinds of materials and made to be comfortable and welcoming to any interested party.

There is nothing about the Biblical story that cannot be verified by you. It's not simply interesting, it's educational.

I'm not sure if we're actually disagreeing on anything here. I think the issue is how you're defining verification. What I mean is that I don't trust the bible to be historically accurate in a lot of cases. Do you?

No disagreement, only unique perspectives.

What do you mean as historically accurate? Literately cohesive?

Historical accuracy (the work of a historian) is nothing other than literary cohesion in describing their researches. The Bible is no different. Although the original author is not explicitly disclosed as you would have contemporary scholar work, it still is a historian's compendium, and therefore it relates mainly to that undisclosed historian's researches.

It's scholarly work, and as an academic interested in History you must comprehend each Historian has a different perspective allocated to their personal studies, according to their personal experiences. The accuracy of any historical scholarly work cannot be anything other than present, therefore, as history is primarily related to the historian/historical author.

There is no reason for you to distrust a book.