MaxGrit
Beloved
- Mar 21, 2014
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Yes, so why not allow everyone to have their own language. Why this push to insist that everyone has to say it the same way.
I think once we get that the spirit and meaning is one in harmony
or at least complementary (God as Love is not the same as God as Wisdom
or God as Source of Life) and all connect to the same Source,
then maybe we don't have to nitpick and can be at peace with
the different ways people express the same God.
The Christians I know who worry about inclusion is they don't
want people "making up" things that aren't saying the same things.
So they seem to fear it means letting some kids say 2+2=6 because
they are using 6 to mean 4. We do have to agree on the symbolism
where it otherwise causes confusion. If we get the concepts and
principles to align, the language will follow and take care of itself.
Get the spirit of agreement first, then the letter follows.
And yes, the language can get as diverse as there are souls on the planet.
It's hard to have a conversation about such topics when everyone has a completely different set of definitions for the words used in the conversation. In my experience the people who don't believe in god, define god in terms that support that belief.YES I AGREE!
What I am saying is when ALL people agree we all see and experience God
then we ALL see God in full. So the point is to reach that agreement where
we ALL understand we are talking about the same thing. Each of us sees
part.
I disagree.. I've seen god many times. When I looked into my babies eyes the first time... I saw god. When I saw my wife walking down the aisle... I saw god. When I look to the heavens I see god. ....Hi MaxGrit:
What I mean is to mediate and represent God's truth PERFECTLY as in ALL INCLUSIVE.
Of course, through Christ, all of us can connect on that level.
All of us can present our part of the truth.
But none of us is "infinite" and able to fully represent God's truth in its full form which is "infinite."
We are finite and limited, do you agree?
Heck, I only speak English, how limited is that -- to just people who can
be reached using English, and in my lifetime which is limited as well.
None of us is perfectly righteous, only Christ.
Sorry this wasn't clear Max.
I just tried to explain this to another friend who thought the Bible was contradictory
by saying some people had seen or heard God, but other parts say NOBODY has seen God.
And I said it was BOTH.
NONE of us has seen God as in the whole.
But people HAVE seen and heard God in parts.
We are only finite and cannot contain the whole of God.
Only Jesus represents God's perfect will embodied without any
condition separating that will. The rest of us have biases and conditions.
Max why do you think you and I are even discussing this
trying to resolve what we both mean? Because my way of saying it
"isn't perfect so you misunderstood and thought I meant something else."
And your way of saying it isn't perfect either, because you are not saying
what I meant. We would agree if I had said it where you understood
I was saying the same thing you said that only God is perfect.
We can be perfect as in collectively as a WHOLE,
but each of us by ourselves is imperfect and needs to
be kept in check by others. We all help each other stay
in line with God's will which is perfect while we are not.
Hope this helps.
My friend did not understand how some people can see
God and yet no one has seen God.
Just like Justice. Some people have seen things that are Justice.
But nobody has seen Justice established in full for all humanity.
None of us has seen equal justice or there would be peace on earth right now.
We are still in process, and in the meantime we can see
Some Truth and Justice or some of God and Jesus revealed.
But for all people to see the whole thing, we'd all have to
receive in agreement at the same time. Hasn't happened yet.
Thanks Max!
This is the concept you have wrong, Emily. It is not true that only Jesus can speak for God directly.
God is the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. One in essence, three in persons.
All three persons speak as God. The Holy Spirit speak as God.
Jesus taught the same truth to the apostles.
John 14 (ESV)
“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way to where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
“These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe. I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me, but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here.
Emily, we're not saying the same thing. That's why defining words for common usage is critical. I see it like you say 6 when you mean 4. Confusing. If you want to communicate well, you need to use a common language, with pre-established definition for words.
Emily, I do know what you are saying. The way you think is very clear to me. Therefore, I understand what you say. I understand your concepts and your definition of those concepts.
""If we get the concepts and principles to align, the language will follow and take care of itself." My language has specific meanings for certain words, which is widely known in the field of Biblical studies. When I use certain words, they come with prebuilt meanings. When you use those words to mean differently concepts intentionally, you are fallacious, a wolf in sheep clothing.
Here's an example which has been annoying me for a long time:
God's Justice is Holy Justice. There's only one definition of Justice. Justice is perfect, infinite, and unchanging.
Your definition of Justice is wrong. It is not Justice, but Injustice. Let me show you why. I will use the small justice to differentiate from Holy Justice. Your justice has two forms, retributive justice and restorative justice. Therefore, justice is different, not infinite, and changes. What is Injustice? It is false justice since it is changing and different.
I know your thinking and your doctrines. Therefore, from that knowledge, I am telling you that you're misunderstanding what I'm telling you. Please note that whenever I correct you, I'm trying my best to point out what the differences are between what I think and what you think. Please do not say that my correction is the same as your error.
This might make it for you to understand. All of these teaches false doctrines: Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, Mormons, 7th day Adventist.
Exaggerating to the extreme, so you can understand why I'm stern and uncompromising, to me you are saying evil is good. Then you ask me to agree with you that we both want good. It was very obvious to me from the start that you're trying to do just that. Same word with different meaning is simply unacceptable to me. It is the kind of relativist trickery that Satan knows best.
"Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.” Genesis 3
What Satan did was convinced Eve that God really didn't say what Eve understood God said, but that God said it with this other meaning. Eve knew God is truth and immortal. Therefore, Satan tricked Eve using Eve's own thinking. Satan tricked her into thinking God was simply saying Eve will die if Eve was human, but since Eve will be like God, she won't die at that time.
Paraphrasing what Satan said, "Eve, after eating the fruit, knowing good and evil, you will be like God. When God said you will die after eating the fruit, He meant if you were still human you would die. You know that God is immortal, and after eating the fruit, you will be like God and you will be immortal. Therefore, you will not surely die."
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