Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

[MaxGrit]

Yes, so why not allow everyone to have their own language. Why this push to insist that everyone has to say it the same way.

I think once we get that the spirit and meaning is one in harmony
or at least complementary (God as Love is not the same as God as Wisdom
or God as Source of Life) and all connect to the same Source,
then maybe we don't have to nitpick and can be at peace with
the different ways people express the same God.

The Christians I know who worry about inclusion is they don't
want people "making up" things that aren't saying the same things.

So they seem to fear it means letting some kids say 2+2=6 because
they are using 6 to mean 4. We do have to agree on the symbolism
where it otherwise causes confusion. If we get the concepts and
principles to align, the language will follow and take care of itself.

Get the spirit of agreement first, then the letter follows.
And yes, the language can get as diverse as there are souls on the planet.

YES I AGREE!
What I am saying is when ALL people agree we all see and experience God
then we ALL see God in full. So the point is to reach that agreement where
we ALL understand we are talking about the same thing. Each of us sees
part.

Hi MaxGrit:
What I mean is to mediate and represent God's truth PERFECTLY as in ALL INCLUSIVE.

Of course, through Christ, all of us can connect on that level.
All of us can present our part of the truth.

But none of us is "infinite" and able to fully represent God's truth in its full form which is "infinite."

We are finite and limited, do you agree?
Heck, I only speak English, how limited is that -- to just people who can
be reached using English, and in my lifetime which is limited as well.

None of us is perfectly righteous, only Christ.

Sorry this wasn't clear Max.

I just tried to explain this to another friend who thought the Bible was contradictory
by saying some people had seen or heard God, but other parts say NOBODY has seen God.

And I said it was BOTH.

NONE of us has seen God as in the whole.
But people HAVE seen and heard God in parts.

We are only finite and cannot contain the whole of God.

Only Jesus represents God's perfect will embodied without any
condition separating that will. The rest of us have biases and conditions.

Max why do you think you and I are even discussing this
trying to resolve what we both mean? Because my way of saying it
"isn't perfect so you misunderstood and thought I meant something else."

And your way of saying it isn't perfect either, because you are not saying
what I meant. We would agree if I had said it where you understood
I was saying the same thing you said that only God is perfect.

We can be perfect as in collectively as a WHOLE,
but each of us by ourselves is imperfect and needs to
be kept in check by others. We all help each other stay
in line with God's will which is perfect while we are not.

Hope this helps.

My friend did not understand how some people can see
God and yet no one has seen God.

Just like Justice. Some people have seen things that are Justice.
But nobody has seen Justice established in full for all humanity.
None of us has seen equal justice or there would be peace on earth right now.

We are still in process, and in the meantime we can see
Some Truth and Justice or some of God and Jesus revealed.

But for all people to see the whole thing, we'd all have to
receive in agreement at the same time. Hasn't happened yet.

Thanks Max!

This is the concept you have wrong, Emily. It is not true that only Jesus can speak for God directly.

God is the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. One in essence, three in persons.

All three persons speak as God. The Holy Spirit speak as God.

Jesus taught the same truth to the apostles.

John 14 (ESV)

“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way to where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.

“These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe. I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me, but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here.

I disagree.. I've seen god many times. When I looked into my babies eyes the first time... I saw god. When I saw my wife walking down the aisle... I saw god. When I look to the heavens I see god. ....

It's hard to have a conversation about such topics when everyone has a completely different set of definitions for the words used in the conversation. In my experience the people who don't believe in god, define god in terms that support that belief.

Emily, we're not saying the same thing. That's why defining words for common usage is critical. I see it like you say 6 when you mean 4. Confusing. If you want to communicate well, you need to use a common language, with pre-established definition for words.

Emily, I do know what you are saying. The way you think is very clear to me. Therefore, I understand what you say. I understand your concepts and your definition of those concepts.

""If we get the concepts and principles to align, the language will follow and take care of itself." My language has specific meanings for certain words, which is widely known in the field of Biblical studies. When I use certain words, they come with prebuilt meanings. When you use those words to mean differently concepts intentionally, you are fallacious, a wolf in sheep clothing.

Here's an example which has been annoying me for a long time:

God's Justice is Holy Justice. There's only one definition of Justice. Justice is perfect, infinite, and unchanging.

Your definition of Justice is wrong. It is not Justice, but Injustice. Let me show you why. I will use the small justice to differentiate from Holy Justice. Your justice has two forms, retributive justice and restorative justice. Therefore, justice is different, not infinite, and changes. What is Injustice? It is false justice since it is changing and different.

I know your thinking and your doctrines. Therefore, from that knowledge, I am telling you that you're misunderstanding what I'm telling you. Please note that whenever I correct you, I'm trying my best to point out what the differences are between what I think and what you think. Please do not say that my correction is the same as your error.

This might make it for you to understand. All of these teaches false doctrines: Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, Mormons, 7th day Adventist.

Exaggerating to the extreme, so you can understand why I'm stern and uncompromising, to me you are saying evil is good. Then you ask me to agree with you that we both want good. It was very obvious to me from the start that you're trying to do just that. Same word with different meaning is simply unacceptable to me. It is the kind of relativist trickery that Satan knows best.

"Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.” Genesis 3

What Satan did was convinced Eve that God really didn't say what Eve understood God said, but that God said it with this other meaning. Eve knew God is truth and immortal. Therefore, Satan tricked Eve using Eve's own thinking. Satan tricked her into thinking God was simply saying Eve will die if Eve was human, but since Eve will be like God, she won't die at that time.

Paraphrasing what Satan said, "Eve, after eating the fruit, knowing good and evil, you will be like God. When God said you will die after eating the fruit, He meant if you were still human you would die. You know that God is immortal, and after eating the fruit, you will be like God and you will be immortal. Therefore, you will not surely die."

 

[MaxGrit]

"So why not allow everyone to have their own language?" "And yes, the language can get as diverse as there are souls on the planet."

Unacceptable nonsense. What does that even mean to me? You to use the same words with different meanings. For example, let say you mean evil and says good.
Should I agree with you? No. There's no way to know the meanings since there is no way to know what kind of language is being used. What word means what in whose language? Everyone with their own language is insane.

Relativism is insanity. Absolute truth is of God and is sane. Relative truth is of Satan and is insane.

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
-Matthew 12:30

Do you understand Emily? That's God telling you that Truth is Truth, and truth means truth. There can be no compromise on the Word of God and its meaning.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
-Romans 1:18

 

[emilynghiem]

All are sinners and prone to sins. There is none righteous, not even one. Our good deeds are like filthy rags.

Dear Max: To those who do not understand this focus on human "sin" as separating "man from God"
I make an analogy with how we are all BIASED.

We will each love our families more than people we do not know.
There are some people and groups we will never understand the way God does.

So compared with God's universal knowledge and understanding of man, both collectively and individually,
our knowledge and compassion for others is still limited.

I understand God's love is greater, and able to overcome all these faults and limitations.

One difference I see between you and me,
is that you still look at things in terms of going to hell
and I look at them as all "being used for God's purpose" to get to heaven.

See Romans 8:28 that all things can be used for good
for those who love the Lord and live by his purposes.

So if the purpose of Christ Jesus is to SAVE the world not condemn it,
then those who love God can use all things to achieve THAT goal.

That will of God is greater than the obstacles to stop it that
can only go so far. Eventually man has to give up these ways
that come to an end because human ways are FINITE.

God's will, grace, truth and love are INFINITE.
So in the end, the Good that is Infinite and Eternal
outlasts the evil that cannot withstand in the presence of God.
The memory and lessons from it can last as part of God's truth,
but the experience of it will be no more.

somehow I do not teach this the same as the
forms of "universal atonement" you and I have both seen before
which tend to diminish hell and not work out the process of NOT going there.

The Jehovah's Witness teach there is no hell, and some
universal salvation teachings act like hell is not real instead
of teaching that it is, and the point of the Salvation process is NOT going there!

MG I will start a thread to discuss with you the Salvation process
of reaching out to all people. I believe in inclusion but understand
you still fear this mean diluting the process instead of teaching it consistently.

This is not about changing or distorting the rules to fit more people in, but teaching
the universal laws already in place where all people can understand it is natural.
I want to make sure you and I especially are on the same page.
And hope Irishram, Jeremiah, GISMYS and others will join in.
As for others from the Atheist discussions, I trust that sealybobo, PratchettFan, Asaratis,
Derideo_Te will join in giving their honest feedback if we are making or missing the points.
And Hollie and Huggy, maybe even Luddly Neddite will let us know if the explanations
and descriptions of the Salvation and spiritual healing process makes sense to them in secular terms.

Thanks, Max!

Sorry Emily I can't agree with you. I look at people and love all. All are forgiven and there is no hatred. This is in accordance with the Holy Spirit indwelling. The Saints eventually understand and think this as well. One example is Lincoln when he stated truthfully, "With malice toward none, with charity for all . . ."

God wants me to teach others, by the Holy Spirit of Truth, the Word of God, who is revealed in the Bible. My teacher and guide is God the Holy Spirit. Thus for me to live is Christ, to die is gain.

Hi MaxGrit:
As long as you are SEPARATING yourself from the Atheists that you made that list about.
This is from not fully understanding, forgiving or resolving issues you have with others.

I agree with you that we are to love our neighbors as Christ Jesus loves us,
which is by letting God's unconditional love and truth flow through us.

You seem to fear that Atheists will go to hell more than
you have faith that God's truth and salvation will include them.

Perfect love casts out all fear.

So when you have perfect love you do not keep having
this fear about Atheists.

The real issue is whether ANYONE, theist or nontheist/atheist.
has UNFORGIVENESS for one another.

But that's GREAT Max if you truly love and include Atheists
in Salvation with full faith that all people will become as
little children and all receive the truth that brings Salvation by grace.

If you do have this love and faith, then
of course, we do not need to argue because you already
know that all will be worked out and all will be saved.

No fear, no unforgiven issues, but all will be healed,
resolved and corrected in Christ Jesus to save the world not condemn it.

That's wonderful, and I support you in sharing
this faith so it grows and multiplies all around.

Thanks, Max!

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Max Grit: OK Thanks for explaining.

A. Wrongful way of abusing laws that bring destruction and death:
Do you agree that if man tries to live by the laws WITHOUT the spirit of Christ
then the justice of man comes out flawed, it gets politically corrupted as Antichrist.

So abusing power and Retributive Justice to have material control for "man's greed"
is NOT the same as God's Justice that is in Christ Jesus.

This is like the difference between following Mammon and following God.

When we seek to take Retributive Justice "into our own hands" out of ILL WILL
then this is Antichrist.

B. Rightful ways of living by and enforcing laws by invoking the spirit of Christ and Justice:
When we submit to God's will and allow Restorative Justice through Christ Jesus
to govern, then this allows God's will to be done by agreement in Christ.

So you and I agree on B, that the point is to align ourselves with God's Justice with
Mercy by receiving and joining in Christ Jesus.

You are right this is NOT to be confused with the abuse of laws/authority
as in A.

To "reconcile" man's laws with God's laws means B corrects A.
It does NOT mean to keep using A and trying to act like God or B: that is Antichrist.

So I think you are still worried about that.
I agree with you that God's Justice in Christ (B- Restorative Justice)
should be used to CORRECT and overcome the evil caused by
man's abuse of authority by greed and corruption and selfish material desire
(A-Retributive Justice that is the broad path of destruction and war leading peopel to hell)

Is this more clear?
I think we are very close, so thanks for clarifying
and sorry for any miscommunication or misunderstanding
in these msgs. I appreciate your help to get on the same page and stay there!

Yes, so why not allow everyone to have their own language. Why this push to insist that everyone has to say it the same way.

I think once we get that the spirit and meaning is one in harmony
or at least complementary (God as Love is not the same as God as Wisdom
or God as Source of Life) and all connect to the same Source,
then maybe we don't have to nitpick and can be at peace with
the different ways people express the same God.

The Christians I know who worry about inclusion is they don't
want people "making up" things that aren't saying the same things.

So they seem to fear it means letting some kids say 2+2=6 because
they are using 6 to mean 4. We do have to agree on the symbolism
where it otherwise causes confusion. If we get the concepts and
principles to align, the language will follow and take care of itself.

Get the spirit of agreement first, then the letter follows.
And yes, the language can get as diverse as there are souls on the planet.

YES I AGREE!
What I am saying is when ALL people agree we all see and experience God
then we ALL see God in full. So the point is to reach that agreement where
we ALL understand we are talking about the same thing. Each of us sees
part.

Hi MaxGrit:
What I mean is to mediate and represent God's truth PERFECTLY as in ALL INCLUSIVE.

Of course, through Christ, all of us can connect on that level.
All of us can present our part of the truth.

But none of us is "infinite" and able to fully represent God's truth in its full form which is "infinite."

We are finite and limited, do you agree?
Heck, I only speak English, how limited is that -- to just people who can
be reached using English, and in my lifetime which is limited as well.

None of us is perfectly righteous, only Christ.

Sorry this wasn't clear Max.

I just tried to explain this to another friend who thought the Bible was contradictory
by saying some people had seen or heard God, but other parts say NOBODY has seen God.

And I said it was BOTH.

NONE of us has seen God as in the whole.
But people HAVE seen and heard God in parts.

We are only finite and cannot contain the whole of God.

Only Jesus represents God's perfect will embodied without any
condition separating that will. The rest of us have biases and conditions.

Max why do you think you and I are even discussing this
trying to resolve what we both mean? Because my way of saying it
"isn't perfect so you misunderstood and thought I meant something else."

And your way of saying it isn't perfect either, because you are not saying
what I meant. We would agree if I had said it where you understood
I was saying the same thing you said that only God is perfect.

We can be perfect as in collectively as a WHOLE,
but each of us by ourselves is imperfect and needs to
be kept in check by others. We all help each other stay
in line with God's will which is perfect while we are not.

Hope this helps.

My friend did not understand how some people can see
God and yet no one has seen God.

Just like Justice. Some people have seen things that are Justice.
But nobody has seen Justice established in full for all humanity.
None of us has seen equal justice or there would be peace on earth right now.

We are still in process, and in the meantime we can see
Some Truth and Justice or some of God and Jesus revealed.

But for all people to see the whole thing, we'd all have to
receive in agreement at the same time. Hasn't happened yet.

Thanks Max!

I disagree.. I've seen god many times. When I looked into my babies eyes the first time... I saw god. When I saw my wife walking down the aisle... I saw god. When I look to the heavens I see god. ....

It's hard to have a conversation about such topics when everyone has a completely different set of definitions for the words used in the conversation. In my experience the people who don't believe in god, define god in terms that support that belief.

Emily, we're not saying the same thing. That's why defining words for common usage is critical. I see it like you say 6 when you mean 4. Confusing. If you want to communicate well, you need to use a common language, with pre-established definition for words.

Emily, I do know what you are saying. The way you think is very clear to me. Therefore, I understand what you say. I understand your concepts and your definition of those concepts.

""If we get the concepts and principles to align, the language will follow and take care of itself." My language has specific meanings for certain words, which is widely known in the field of Biblical studies. When I use certain words, they come with prebuilt meanings. When you use those words to mean differently concepts intentionally, you are fallacious, a wolf in sheep clothing.

Here's an example which has been annoying me for a long time:

God's Justice is Holy Justice. There's only one definition of Justice. Justice is perfect, infinite, and unchanging.

Your definition of Justice is wrong. It is not Justice, but Injustice. Let me show you why. I will use the small justice to differentiate from Holy Justice. Your justice has two forms, retributive justice and restorative justice. Therefore, justice is different, not infinite, and changes. What is Injustice? It is false justice since it is changing and different.

I know your thinking and your doctrines. Therefore, from that knowledge, I am telling you that you're misunderstanding what I'm telling you. Please note that whenever I correct you, I'm trying my best to point out what the differences are between what I think and what you think. Please do not say that my correction is the same as your error.

This might make it for you to understand. All of these teaches false doctrines: Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, Mormons, 7th day Adventist.

Exaggerating to the extreme, so you can understand why I'm stern and uncompromising, to me you are saying evil is good. Then you ask me to agree with you that we both want good. It was very obvious to me from the start that you're trying to do just that. Same word with different meaning is simply unacceptable to me. It is the kind of relativist trickery that Satan knows best.

"Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.” Genesis 3

What Satan did was convinced Eve that God really didn't say what Eve understood God said, but that God said it with this other meaning. Eve knew God is truth and immortal. Therefore, Satan tricked Eve using Eve's own thinking. Satan tricked her into thinking God was simply saying Eve will die if Eve was human, but since Eve will be like God, she won't die at that time.

Paraphrasing what Satan said, "Eve, after eating the fruit, knowing good and evil, you will be like God. When God said you will die after eating the fruit, He meant if you were still human you would die. You know that God is immortal, and after eating the fruit, you will be like God and you will be immortal. Therefore, you will not surely die."

 

[MaxGrit]

It's clear your justice is not God's Holy Justice.

"restorative justice is about the idea that because crime hurts, justice should heal." It is based on a theory of justice that considers crime and wrongdoing to be an offence against an individual or community, rather than the state.

Sin is offense against an infinite God and His laws. God is never harmed by sin. It's impossible for work to repay the punishment for sin. Therefore, Holy Justice must be Retributive.

Looking at the Scriptures, the Bible reveals that Holy Justice is Retributive. Read 23 Minutes in Hell. It's really good description of Hell. Accurate and scriptural.

Hell is real. There is eternal punishment for sins in Hell.

23 Minutes In Hell One Man s Story About What He Saw Heard and Felt in that Place of Torment Bill Wiese 9781591858829 Amazon.com Books

Therefore, Emily, I will say again,

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
-Matthew 12:30

 

[MaxGrit]

Get the book. It's a lot better than this video because of the scriptures. The interesting part of the book when I read it is how he felt after coming back from Hell. He knows Hell exists. I know Hell exists.

His feelings mirrors mine in the frustration and angry at the disbelief in Hell. Christians that love man more than God, being arrogant, and prideful to not believe in Word of God?

Ultimately, there's nothing I can do to change man's heart. Only the Holy Spirit can change the heart.

 

[MaxGrit]

All are sinners and prone to sins. There is none righteous, not even one. Our good deeds are like filthy rags.

Dear Max: To those who do not understand this focus on human "sin" as separating "man from God"
I make an analogy with how we are all BIASED.

We will each love our families more than people we do not know.
There are some people and groups we will never understand the way God does.

So compared with God's universal knowledge and understanding of man, both collectively and individually,
our knowledge and compassion for others is still limited.

I understand God's love is greater, and able to overcome all these faults and limitations.

One difference I see between you and me,
is that you still look at things in terms of going to hell
and I look at them as all "being used for God's purpose" to get to heaven.

See Romans 8:28 that all things can be used for good
for those who love the Lord and live by his purposes.

So if the purpose of Christ Jesus is to SAVE the world not condemn it,
then those who love God can use all things to achieve THAT goal.

That will of God is greater than the obstacles to stop it that
can only go so far. Eventually man has to give up these ways
that come to an end because human ways are FINITE.

God's will, grace, truth and love are INFINITE.
So in the end, the Good that is Infinite and Eternal
outlasts the evil that cannot withstand in the presence of God.
The memory and lessons from it can last as part of God's truth,
but the experience of it will be no more.

somehow I do not teach this the same as the
forms of "universal atonement" you and I have both seen before
which tend to diminish hell and not work out the process of NOT going there.

The Jehovah's Witness teach there is no hell, and some
universal salvation teachings act like hell is not real instead
of teaching that it is, and the point of the Salvation process is NOT going there!

MG I will start a thread to discuss with you the Salvation process
of reaching out to all people. I believe in inclusion but understand
you still fear this mean diluting the process instead of teaching it consistently.

This is not about changing or distorting the rules to fit more people in, but teaching
the universal laws already in place where all people can understand it is natural.
I want to make sure you and I especially are on the same page.
And hope Irishram, Jeremiah, GISMYS and others will join in.
As for others from the Atheist discussions, I trust that sealybobo, PratchettFan, Asaratis,
Derideo_Te will join in giving their honest feedback if we are making or missing the points.
And Hollie and Huggy, maybe even Luddly Neddite will let us know if the explanations
and descriptions of the Salvation and spiritual healing process makes sense to them in secular terms.

Thanks, Max!

Sorry Emily I can't agree with you. I look at people and love all. All are forgiven and there is no hatred. This is in accordance with the Holy Spirit indwelling. The Saints eventually understand and think this as well. One example is Lincoln when he stated truthfully, "With malice toward none, with charity for all . . ."

God wants me to teach others, by the Holy Spirit of Truth, the Word of God, who is revealed in the Bible. My teacher and guide is God the Holy Spirit. Thus for me to live is Christ, to die is gain.

Hi MaxGrit:
As long as you are SEPARATING yourself from the Atheists that you made that list about.
This is from not fully understanding, forgiving or resolving issues you have with others.

I agree with you that we are to love our neighbors as Christ Jesus loves us,
which is by letting God's unconditional love and truth flow through us.

You seem to fear that Atheists will go to hell more than
you have faith that God's truth and salvation will include them.

Perfect love casts out all fear.

So when you have perfect love you do not keep having
this fear about Atheists.

The real issue is whether ANYONE, theist or nontheist/atheist.
has UNFORGIVENESS for one another.

But that's GREAT Max if you truly love and include Atheists
in Salvation with full faith that all people will become as
little children and all receive the truth that brings Salvation by grace.

If you do have this love and faith, then
of course, we do not need to argue because you already
know that all will be worked out and all will be saved.

No fear, no unforgiven issues, but all will be healed,
resolved and corrected in Christ Jesus to save the world not condemn it.

That's wonderful, and I support you in sharing
this faith so it grows and multiplies all around.

Thanks, Max!

Universal Salvation is a false doctrine. It's because you think God's love is greater than God's justice. Let me tell you that God is all in all and none of his characteristics is greater or lesser than any other. God's characteristics are not separate from one another because God is most simple. Therefore, God have for ex. Infinite Holy Love and Infinite Holy Justice and Infinite Holy Joy and Infinite Holy Anger, etc.

God is the most simple existence. Do you understand what is meant by that phrase?

Or written like this, God is I AM: Omnipotent Eternal Omniscient Holy Love Justice Wrath Joy Life etc.

 

[Dot Com]

believing in sky pixies is fine as long as you don't try to shove it down other people's throats via the gov't.

 

[MaxGrit]

Hi MaxGrit:
As long as you are SEPARATING yourself from the Atheists that you made that list about.
This is from not fully understanding, forgiving or resolving issues you have with others.

I agree with you that we are to love our neighbors as Christ Jesus loves us,
which is by letting God's unconditional love and truth flow through us.

You seem to fear that Atheists will go to hell more than
you have faith that God's truth and salvation will include them.

Perfect love casts out all fear.

So when you have perfect love you do not keep having
this fear about Atheists.

The real issue is whether ANYONE, theist or nontheist/atheist.
has UNFORGIVENESS for one another.

But that's GREAT Max if you truly love and include Atheists
in Salvation with full faith that all people will become as
little children and all receive the truth that brings Salvation by grace.

If you do have this love and faith, then
of course, we do not need to argue because you already
know that all will be worked out and all will be saved.

No fear, no unforgiven issues, but all will be healed,
resolved and corrected in Christ Jesus to save the world not condemn it.

That's wonderful, and I support you in sharing
this faith so it grows and multiplies all around.

Thanks, Max!

Emily. You do not understand anything about what I'm saying or how I feel. That's why you think in terms of fear, unforgiveness, judging, etc.

I do not hate, nor live in fear, nor live in unforgiveness.

I feel love, frustration, anger, and sorrow. You would too if you know, KNOW, with absolute 100% certainty, that rejection of Jesus Christ as Savior means eternal punishment in Hell.

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV

 

[CrusaderFrank]

believing in sky pixies is fine as long as you don't try to shove it down other people's throats via the gov't.

Sounds like you're describing Radical Atheism, the only approved State Religion of Progressive

 

[MaxGrit]

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.
-Matthew 22:36-38 (ESV)

He spoke us from non-existence into life. Without God we would not exist. God has given this life to us, a gift. With our gift of life and knowledge of good and evil, we learned that we had duty to follow the law. Our primary duty is to love and honor God as the eternal God, our Creator.

Sin is crime against our Creator's law. Sinners are committing crimes against an infinite God. Therefore, the punishment for sins is infinite in nature, which means eternal punishment.

God, in his love for us, took the punishment for sins by sending his only begotton Son, who is also God, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross. Jesus, the Son of God, was innocent of sins, yet he took the punishment of sins for all who have faith in Him to be their Lord and Savior. He infinitely satisfied God righteous justice, which requires God to punish crimes against God.

Punishment for sin is eternal punishment in Hell.

 

[Dot Com]

Its like pro sports, the opiate of the masses who don't want to think about what really needs to be addressed

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful

.~Seneca the Younger

 

[emilynghiem]

Sorry Max if I misunderstand you.
If it's isn't caused by unforgiveness, denial or projection,
* what is causing you to see the problem with Atheists is all one sided and only they need to change not you?
* do you honestly see them and yourself equally as having just as many issues preventing truth from being established

If you are judging them differently from yourself,
that's fine if you are fair and judge yourself by the standards where they see YOU as falling short.

As long as both sides acknowledge equal strengths in some areas of understanding,
but weakness in others, we can still help correct each other as equals in Christ as children of God.

But if you keep projecting more of the responsibility for change on Atheists,
that is where I am seeing some kind of bias. And they do the same which is equally faulty.

So if that isn't caused by unforgiveness, but some emotional attachment of negative judgement
due to past conflicts or issues not resolved yet,
what do YOU CALL it when you judge another person without judging yourself?

it may not be the same system: for example a good mathematician with the right answers in math
can discern when someone else has inconsistent answers in math and can correct the process.
So not all people can be judged in math as equally -- that is NOT what I mean,
but I can tell this is what you are trying to say that these people ARE missing the ability to perceive spiritual
knowledge process or understanding of people who have experienced this and can understand the language.

What I mean is that each person is designed to use their skills and abilities in a way only they can master,
and we are not going to be as good at that as they are.

So we are equal in that each of us can be the best we can be at what we are given to do in life,
and likewise others.

Do you see the benefits of Atheists in having objective views without the distraction of spiritual realms coming into play?

As long as you can see that God creates nontheists for a reason, and there is benefit
as long as they do not REJECT and DIVIDE, but work together with theists and others,
then we can ALL see that God's purpose is still working through our different ways of being.

Do you see nontheists as equally included as long as we agree on the truth,
and it can still be that some of those saved in Christ just like believers
are still not able to see the world in terms of a personified God and Jesus?
they can still receive the message and meaning of God and Salvation by Grace through Christ
but not call it that.

So I agree with you they cannot REJECT the spirit and message,
but I see no problem with people remaining NONTHEIST if God created them with secular objective minds
that don't see or experience life on that level.

Max what do you call the difference between my way and your way if it isn't a matter of forgiving, or a matter of
fear that people will go to hell instead of truth overcoming all paths to hell.

is it because I have seen spiritual healing and forgiveness bring people to Christ without making them change from being nontheist? is that why our thinking is different?

Usually I see people reject because of unresolved conflicts they still attach fear or blame to,
so if they can't figure out how to fix it,
they assume the problem has to be the other person, not them, or they would have fixed it if it was just their own issue.

Sorry if this doesn't apply to you. Can you explain where your fear is coming from that I don't have
because I have seen even Anti-theist Anti-Christian people receive spiritual healing and get cured of their addiction
and still not convert. And I have an atheist friend who teaches healing grace by forgiveness and still remains nontheist.

so this tells me it is more important to focus on the spiritual healing, and let people change or not change
as the spiritual process and path in life leads them. If God created nontheists to live by secular natural laws,
it makes sense to me this serves a purpose that complements if not completes the spiritual laws and does not
need to reject, negate or conflict in any way. Yet even when we reconcile in truth, people may remain secular nontheists.

Hi MaxGrit:
As long as you are SEPARATING yourself from the Atheists that you made that list about.
This is from not fully understanding, forgiving or resolving issues you have with others.

I agree with you that we are to love our neighbors as Christ Jesus loves us,
which is by letting God's unconditional love and truth flow through us.

You seem to fear that Atheists will go to hell more than
you have faith that God's truth and salvation will include them.

Perfect love casts out all fear.

So when you have perfect love you do not keep having
this fear about Atheists.

The real issue is whether ANYONE, theist or nontheist/atheist.
has UNFORGIVENESS for one another.

But that's GREAT Max if you truly love and include Atheists
in Salvation with full faith that all people will become as
little children and all receive the truth that brings Salvation by grace.

If you do have this love and faith, then
of course, we do not need to argue because you already
know that all will be worked out and all will be saved.

No fear, no unforgiven issues, but all will be healed,
resolved and corrected in Christ Jesus to save the world not condemn it.

That's wonderful, and I support you in sharing
this faith so it grows and multiplies all around.

Thanks, Max!

Emily. You do not understand anything about what I'm saying or how I feel. That's why you think in terms of fear, unforgiveness, judging, etc.

I do not hate, nor live in fear, nor live in unforgiveness.

I feel love, frustration, anger, and sorrow. You would too if you know, KNOW, with absolute 100% certainty, that rejection of Jesus Christ as Savior means eternal punishment in Hell.

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV

 

[Uncensored2008]

In the Bible, Jesus said that a man cannot serve two masters.

This is the foundation of the hatred the left has for Christianity. A man who sees god as the highest authority, will not view the King, Dictator, or President as the ultimate authority. This is intolerable to the left. Progressives cannot allow anyone to question what party rulers dictate. A Christian may find the arbitrary and capricious orders of a Barack Obama to conflict with what they believe god has told them.

I specify Christianity, because of the personal responsibility and liberty elements of the religion. The basic premise of the Pauline doctrine is that man is free, and answerable only to god. This is clearly an issue to the left, who view people as property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Leftism is about totalitarianism - absolute power in the state. Leftists claim that they seize power on behalf of the collective, that individuals must submit to the will of the "people." This is 180° from what Christianity teaches about the individual standing alone before his creator. The two views cannot coexist. Thus leftism fights a perpetual war to subvert and ultimately prohibit, Christianity.

Islam is totalitarian in nature, so compatible with the goals of progressives. There was no Calvin, or Locke in Islam to promote the concepts of individualism. Progressives are at war to eradicate Christianity, not religion. Islam is actually a major ally of the left.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Uncensored
I would take your point and interpret it further.
It is not only the "Left" that can act with ill will to rejection punish and blame the other.
The Right is criticized when they go overboard with the hatred, and this is equally dividing Conservatives,
so they know it is happening and not just the Left saying it.

It is the SPIRIT of being retributive in rejection instead of restorative in relation.

So one is Antichrist based on material desire for power using ill will to motivate action -- at the EXPENSE of others;
the other is Christ based on including all people by conscience with compassion and GOOD WILL to motivate change
in a positive way that all people AGREE with so it is unifying and healing not hateful.

One is material greed and personal retribution out of ill will.
The other is spiritual inclusion and restorative of good faith relations and good will.

Ill will is not compatible with good will.

So both the Left and Right can express bad will towards the other.
It is not so simple black and white, left vs. right, or we'd be done by now.
the problem is both sides points teh finger at the other as being the cause of the ill will.

So that is wy the Bible warns this path of destruction is broad and most people go that way.
Most people take the approach my/our group is correct, that other person/group is the problem.
This brings death and destruction by killing relations.

The way to life and truth is the NARROW gate that finds where people can agree in truth without fear
or compromise. A narrow path indeed, that is hard to find but saves us all from ruin.

In the Bible, Jesus said that a man cannot serve two masters.

This is the foundation of the hatred the left has for Christianity. A man who sees god as the highest authority, will not view the King, Dictator, or President as the ultimate authority. This is intolerable to the left. Progressives cannot allow anyone to question what party rulers dictate. A Christian may find the arbitrary and capricious orders of a Barack Obama to conflict with what they believe god has told them.

I specify Christianity, because of the personal responsibility and liberty elements of the religion. The basic premise of the Pauline doctrine is that man is free, and answerable only to god. This is clearly an issue to the left, who view people as property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Leftism is about totalitarianism - absolute power in the state. Leftists claim that they seize power on behalf of the collective, that individuals must submit to the will of the "people." This is 180° from what Christianity teaches about the individual standing alone before his creator. The two views cannot coexist. Thus leftism fights a perpetual war to subvert and ultimately prohibit, Christianity.

Islam is totalitarian in nature, so compatible with the goals of progressives. There was no Calvin, or Locke in Islam to promote the concepts of individualism. Progressives are at war to eradicate Christianity, not religion. Islam is actually a major ally of the left.

 

[sealybobo]

In the Bible, Jesus said that a man cannot serve two masters.

This is the foundation of the hatred the left has for Christianity. A man who sees god as the highest authority, will not view the King, Dictator, or President as the ultimate authority. This is intolerable to the left. Progressives cannot allow anyone to question what party rulers dictate. A Christian may find the arbitrary and capricious orders of a Barack Obama to conflict with what they believe god has told them.

I specify Christianity, because of the personal responsibility and liberty elements of the religion. The basic premise of the Pauline doctrine is that man is free, and answerable only to god. This is clearly an issue to the left, who view people as property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Leftism is about totalitarianism - absolute power in the state. Leftists claim that they seize power on behalf of the collective, that individuals must submit to the will of the "people." This is 180° from what Christianity teaches about the individual standing alone before his creator. The two views cannot coexist. Thus leftism fights a perpetual war to subvert and ultimately prohibit, Christianity.

Islam is totalitarian in nature, so compatible with the goals of progressives. There was no Calvin, or Locke in Islam to promote the concepts of individualism. Progressives are at war to eradicate Christianity, not religion. Islam is actually a major ally of the left.

I realized if people are dumb enough they can be convinced that virgin births, talking snakes, people living 350 years, people living in a whales belly for 3 days or people rising from the dead after being dead for 3 days, then they can be convinced of anything.

This is why I hate all organized religions, not just christianity. They use it to keep the masses dumb and in line. Look at you? They have you hating your own government that use to represent We The People. You talk about that kind of government like it's evil. What you really want is a government that has no power and can do nothing when it comes to corporate greed.

See, I don't expect you to understand it, but basically your reply is the perfect example of how they use religion to manipulate the stupid masses. You, for example, argue against a government that can protect your sorry middle class ass. I don't want to get into politics but your post is the best example of how "they" have used god gays and guns to manipulate our dumbest voters.

 

[sealybobo]

In the Bible, Jesus said that a man cannot serve two masters.

This is the foundation of the hatred the left has for Christianity. A man who sees god as the highest authority, will not view the King, Dictator, or President as the ultimate authority. This is intolerable to the left. Progressives cannot allow anyone to question what party rulers dictate. A Christian may find the arbitrary and capricious orders of a Barack Obama to conflict with what they believe god has told them.

I specify Christianity, because of the personal responsibility and liberty elements of the religion. The basic premise of the Pauline doctrine is that man is free, and answerable only to god. This is clearly an issue to the left, who view people as property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Leftism is about totalitarianism - absolute power in the state. Leftists claim that they seize power on behalf of the collective, that individuals must submit to the will of the "people." This is 180° from what Christianity teaches about the individual standing alone before his creator. The two views cannot coexist. Thus leftism fights a perpetual war to subvert and ultimately prohibit, Christianity.

Islam is totalitarian in nature, so compatible with the goals of progressives. There was no Calvin, or Locke in Islam to promote the concepts of individualism. Progressives are at war to eradicate Christianity, not religion. Islam is actually a major ally of the left.

When I say they use religion to control the dumb masses, this is the perfect post illustrating that stupidity I'm talking about. Look, for example, at how they assume we want to worship government when we just want a government that represents all of it's citizens, not just the rich.

Oh but they even have a word for that! If the government protects all of us, is that communism or socialism or class warfare?

See how they prey on the ignorant theists and lie to them? The GOP is the party of God because without God the GOP would have nothing else to offer middle class and poor Americans.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi sealybobo: May I remind you that the SAME can be said of the Liberal Left?
Examples:
* Convincing people that it is NOT okay to impose religiously held beliefs about creation or God,
but it IS okay to impose beliefs about evolution and Global Warming, Why is one okay and one is not
if people equally disagree which has or has not been proven? All FOUR are neither proveable or disproveable without
relying on faith.

* Convincing themselves and others that the Democrat Party stands for "prochoice" and freedom from govt
interfering with personal health decisions, yet inserting Govt legislation and MANDATES into health care.

This is like having sex then complaining when you end up with an unwanted pregnancy.
Why were you having sex if there was a risk of consequences that went beyond your intent?

* Convincing themselves that just because some reparative therapy is harmful for people when forced,
then it should be BANNED for ALL PEOPLE; but when people make the argument that abortion is harmful
when forced on teenagers or minorities, then it should still be a protected CHOICE not punished by govt.

Sealybobo, the same way I would ask people on the Right complaining about the Left to be CONSISTENT
I ask the same of you.

Surely you are honest and transparent, and can recognize when the Liberal left goes too far with their politics,
similar to the Religious Right.

This is like how both Atheists and Theists can go off to such an extreme, they become Anti-each other.
Surely you can see that.

It goes both ways. And both sides can only fix their part of the problems.

Just because I point out the Left is equally biased and taking advantage politically
DOES NOT EXCUSE or REDUCE the fact the Right does it.

It just shows the damage is DOUBLE, coming from BOTH sides.

It isn't "one side right and the other wrong" -- both sides re equally wrong when they do this.
And both sides are RIGHT to correct and check the other when they go off on some tangent and override the other.

So I give credit to both for correcting the other, as I blame both when they shirk responsibility
and just say the other is doing it.

The fairest way I have heard it, is that both are corrupted but the Democrats are worse about skirting over it
to keep their voters behind their candidates. The Republicans in being honest and unable to side with hypocrisy
within their own party get divided as they are now with the Tea Party insisting on principle to the point people fear they are not workable with, vs. the RINO's trying to play the same game as Democrats to win elections and just backing
whoever is popular and saying whatever to get votes.

Sealybobo, as for the Religious Right, the one thing I will say to their credit
is they are right about people spiritual healing, which may seem miraculous, but is in keeping with natural science.

So as long as that knowledge is denied and falsely dismissed,
then there is REASON for the Right to reject the Left for rejecting them.
That goes in a circle, but the Christian Right is correct that spiritual healing is real.

What they do wrong, which is equal on both sides,
is reject one another: the science and religious community,
the Atheists and Theists. The blame is mutual when BOTH sides "blame the
other" instead of focusing on what EACH side can do to correct their own biases,
otherwise blocking information, resources and solutions from going through faster.

We all have biases, the trick is recognizing we all have biases.
And forgiving and correcting others, equally as ourselves, so we
quit fighting and share responsibility for fixing problems equally as a team.

In the Bible, Jesus said that a man cannot serve two masters.

This is the foundation of the hatred the left has for Christianity. A man who sees god as the highest authority, will not view the King, Dictator, or President as the ultimate authority. This is intolerable to the left. Progressives cannot allow anyone to question what party rulers dictate. A Christian may find the arbitrary and capricious orders of a Barack Obama to conflict with what they believe god has told them.

I specify Christianity, because of the personal responsibility and liberty elements of the religion. The basic premise of the Pauline doctrine is that man is free, and answerable only to god. This is clearly an issue to the left, who view people as property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Leftism is about totalitarianism - absolute power in the state. Leftists claim that they seize power on behalf of the collective, that individuals must submit to the will of the "people." This is 180° from what Christianity teaches about the individual standing alone before his creator. The two views cannot coexist. Thus leftism fights a perpetual war to subvert and ultimately prohibit, Christianity.

Islam is totalitarian in nature, so compatible with the goals of progressives. There was no Calvin, or Locke in Islam to promote the concepts of individualism. Progressives are at war to eradicate Christianity, not religion. Islam is actually a major ally of the left.

I realized if people are dumb enough they can be convinced that virgin births, talking snakes, people living 350 years, people living in a whales belly for 3 days or people rising from the dead after being dead for 3 days, then they can be convinced of anything.

This is why I hate all organized religions, not just christianity. They use it to keep the masses dumb and in line. Look at you? They have you hating your own government that use to represent We The People. You talk about that kind of government like it's evil. What you really want is a government that has no power and can do nothing when it comes to corporate greed.

See, I don't expect you to understand it, but basically your reply is the perfect example of how they use religion to manipulate the stupid masses. You, for example, argue against a government that can protect your sorry middle class ass. I don't want to get into politics but your post is the best example of how "they" have used god gays and guns to manipulate our dumbest voters.

 

[sealybobo]

Hi sealybobo: May I remind you that the SAME can be said of the Liberal Left?
Examples:
* Convincing people that it is NOT okay to impose religiously held beliefs about creation or God,
but it IS okay to impose beliefs about evolution and Global Warming, Why is one okay and one is not
if people equally disagree which has or has not been proven? All FOUR are neither proveable or disproveable without
relying on faith.

* Convincing themselves and others that the Democrat Party stands for "prochoice" and freedom from govt
interfering with personal health decisions, yet inserting Govt legislation and MANDATES into health care.

This is like having sex then complaining when you end up with an unwanted pregnancy.
Why were you having sex if there was a risk of consequences that went beyond your intent?

* Convincing themselves that just because some reparative therapy is harmful for people when forced,
then it should be BANNED for ALL PEOPLE; but when people make the argument that abortion is harmful
when forced on teenagers or minorities, then it should still be a protected CHOICE not punished by govt.

Sealybobo, the same way I would ask people on the Right complaining about the Left to be CONSISTENT
I ask the same of you.

Surely you are honest and transparent, and can recognize when the Liberal left goes too far with their politics,
similar to the Religious Right.

This is like how both Atheists and Theists can go off to such an extreme, they become Anti-each other.
Surely you can see that.

It goes both ways. And both sides can only fix their part of the problems.

Just because I point out the Left is equally biased and taking advantage politically
DOES NOT EXCUSE or REDUCE the fact the Right does it.

It just shows the damage is DOUBLE, coming from BOTH sides.

It isn't "one side right and the other wrong" -- both sides re equally wrong when they do this.
And both sides are RIGHT to correct and check the other when they go off on some tangent and override the other.

So I give credit to both for correcting the other, as I blame both when they shirk responsibility
and just say the other is doing it.

The fairest way I have heard it, is that both are corrupted but the Democrats are worse about skirting over it
to keep their voters behind their candidates. The Republicans in being honest and unable to side with hypocrisy
within their own party get divided as they are now with the Tea Party insisting on principle to the point people fear they are not workable with, vs. the RINO's trying to play the same game as Democrats to win elections and just backing
whoever is popular and saying whatever to get votes.

Sealybobo, as for the Religious Right, the one thing I will say to their credit
is they are right about people spiritual healing, which may seem miraculous, but is in keeping with natural science.

So as long as that knowledge is denied and falsely dismissed,
then there is REASON for the Right to reject the Left for rejecting them.
That goes in a circle, but the Christian Right is correct that spiritual healing is real.

What they do wrong, which is equal on both sides,
is reject one another: the science and religious community,
the Atheists and Theists. The blame is mutual when BOTH sides "blame the
other" instead of focusing on what EACH side can do to correct their own biases,
otherwise blocking information, resources and solutions from going through faster.

We all have biases, the trick is recognizing we all have biases.
And forgiving and correcting others, equally as ourselves, so we
quit fighting and share responsibility for fixing problems equally as a team.

In the Bible, Jesus said that a man cannot serve two masters.

This is the foundation of the hatred the left has for Christianity. A man who sees god as the highest authority, will not view the King, Dictator, or President as the ultimate authority. This is intolerable to the left. Progressives cannot allow anyone to question what party rulers dictate. A Christian may find the arbitrary and capricious orders of a Barack Obama to conflict with what they believe god has told them.

I specify Christianity, because of the personal responsibility and liberty elements of the religion. The basic premise of the Pauline doctrine is that man is free, and answerable only to god. This is clearly an issue to the left, who view people as property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Leftism is about totalitarianism - absolute power in the state. Leftists claim that they seize power on behalf of the collective, that individuals must submit to the will of the "people." This is 180° from what Christianity teaches about the individual standing alone before his creator. The two views cannot coexist. Thus leftism fights a perpetual war to subvert and ultimately prohibit, Christianity.

Islam is totalitarian in nature, so compatible with the goals of progressives. There was no Calvin, or Locke in Islam to promote the concepts of individualism. Progressives are at war to eradicate Christianity, not religion. Islam is actually a major ally of the left.

I realized if people are dumb enough they can be convinced that virgin births, talking snakes, people living 350 years, people living in a whales belly for 3 days or people rising from the dead after being dead for 3 days, then they can be convinced of anything.

This is why I hate all organized religions, not just christianity. They use it to keep the masses dumb and in line. Look at you? They have you hating your own government that use to represent We The People. You talk about that kind of government like it's evil. What you really want is a government that has no power and can do nothing when it comes to corporate greed.

See, I don't expect you to understand it, but basically your reply is the perfect example of how they use religion to manipulate the stupid masses. You, for example, argue against a government that can protect your sorry middle class ass. I don't want to get into politics but your post is the best example of how "they" have used god gays and guns to manipulate our dumbest voters.

Because Evolution & Global Warming are scientific facts.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I realized if people are dumb enough they can be convinced that virgin births, talking snakes, people living 350 years, people living in a whales belly for 3 days or people rising from the dead after being dead for 3 days, then they can be convinced of anything.

Perhaps, but the issue here is that Christians - at least Protestants, hold that the individual is directly answerable to god. This creates a bit of a problem for Kings and Dictators. it brought about the Renaissance in Europe and the collapse of Feudalism. It gave rise to the United States and the idea of a representative Republic.

For democrats, this is a serious problem. Consider that once the smoke is cleared, the goal of the modern, radical left democrats is to reestablish feudalism - where a privileged elite - George Soros, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, et al - rule over a dependent peasantry that is kept in a perpetual hand to mouth existence, begging the ruling nobility for medical care, their welfare check, and SNAP. The idea that a man should turn to his creator for the strength to care for himself is what caused the Feudal structure to fall in the first place. Clearly the modern progressive must react violently - as all collectivists have, against such an openly individualist belief system.

This is why I hate all organized religions, not just christianity. They use it to keep the masses dumb and in line. Look at you? They have you hating your own government that use to represent We The People. You talk about that kind of government like it's evil. What you really want is a government that has no power and can do nothing when it comes to corporate greed.

See, I don't expect you to understand it, but basically your reply is the perfect example of how they use religion to manipulate the stupid masses. You, for example, argue against a government that can protect your sorry middle class ass. I don't want to get into politics but your post is the best example of how "they" have used god gays and guns to manipulate our dumbest voters.

While I have never seen you criticize any faith other than Christians, I have seen you defend and promote Islam on many occasions. I understand, the left and Islam have a common enemy, the United States Constitution.

You progressive - let's be honest - you Communists, hate Christianity because it is an impediment to the establishment of the collectivist dictatorship you seek to establish. It impedes the notion that the elite are the rightful shepherds of the masses who all live at the pleasure of our rulers.

While myths of giant fish may be good for a chuckle, they will not spawn the hatred you display. That hatred is founded on the conflict of individualism vs. collectivism. Christians believe they are answerable to god, where you see the state as god.