Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

[Moonglow]

Don't tell these people that Abe Lincoln was a progressive...as was Taft, T. Roosevelt and The ProgressiveGOP Club in Brooklyn that shall advance the interests of the black and Hispanic communities within the Republican Party
PROGRESSIVE GOP CLUB

 

[Votto]

I think the term collectivist should be used instead of progressive.

Collectivists are a dime a dozen and go back to the dawn of man.

It used to be that the collectivist convinced us that he was a God, then when that no longer worked he convinced us that he spoke for God, then when that no longer worked he convinced us that there was no God, thus making himself the ultimate authority.

 

[idb]

Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

I know conservatives and libertarians who are atheists and some of them really, really despise religion and religionists.

That's a bit difficult to fit onto a bumper sticker.
"Liberals Are Evil" is much easier...and easier to spell as well.

 

[Darkwind]

Thread after thread after thread started by USMB Libs and their socks has made me ask Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

Because religion makes people ignorant

See The Religion of Liberalism.

You were saying something about religion making people ignorant. Quod erat demonstrandum

Whatever buddy. Because we have talking points just like you, that makes it a religion?

I hope you aren't denying that there is a Religion of Conservativism, are you?

And our religions says feed the poor, don't be greedy, don't go to war for oil, don't give the rich more tax breaks and the middle class' life harder, make energy, college and healthcare affordable, etc.

You righties talk about how you'd be fine on your own and we need big government. You are wrong. You do need a good government. Great example is Mexico. They have a bad government and good luck being successful there.

It turns out America is no longer the greatest place on the planet. All over the world other countries are now better places to live. Vancouver vs. Seattle for example. 30 years ago they wanted to come here. Now we want to go there and live. They're booming, we are not. Upward mobility, affordable healthcare, standard of living, savings, jobs.

America was the shining example and the rich undid half of what made us great.

Half? Yes half. It is still the best country if you are rich. They didn't undo that, YET. Because their way doesn't work and can't last. They put 90% of the money in 10% of the people's hand. The 90% with no money will revolt or at least unionize, organize and vote...I hope. I wish actually, because American's aren't even smart enough to vote in midterms. That's how the rich keep in power. They win ever 4 years because voters only show up for General elections. Hell, not even enough Americans vote in the General Elections. So they get what they deserve. Unfortunately they're dragging me with them.

Anyone who says "you need government and I don't" obviously already has his and isn't worried that the system is broke. As long as it's working for them. And many of "them" it isn't working for but they are brainwashed so they'll never vote for a "LIBERAL".

This reply here, is what real greed looks like. The use of envy to promote greed is the bottom line.

 

[emilynghiem]

Thread after thread after thread started by USMB Libs and their socks has made me ask Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

The key in Christianity is Forgiveness and the key in Buddhism is letting go
in order to be spiritually liberated, enlightened and/or saved from suffering.
If people understand this, you don't fear other people or groups as having more control than you do.

But for people who do NOT understand Christianity, and think it is a bunch of conservatives pushing their agenda on people through govt, if they do not FORGIVE, then of course they will continue to fear, hate and/or act against this agenda.

It becomes a vicious cycle. Where the lack of faith and understanding in the good in religion causes the very fear of it that robs people of empowerment, and becomes self-defeating.

The first step is to forgive there are past abuses, conflicts and issues/differences.

After the fear is overcome, then the real differences can be understood and embraced
WITHOUT demonizing one side or the other over religious or political affiliation.

Until then, there has been too much backlash either way
* liberals blaming conservatives or conservatives blaming liberals
* atheists blaming theists or theists blaming atheists
Both sides would have to agree to forgive to stop the fear and division perpetuating the mutual rejection.

My friends who are liberals and literally FEAR Christian Conservatives
do not have the same sense of invoking equal authority of law or govt directly by the laws/Constitution,
as how Christians invoke authority directly using the Scriptures.

So if you do not have equal sense of authority as the people under law,
it is natural to FEAR people who DO invoke this authority directly and appear to have more power
they can abuse to oppress others.

This is why I found people fear Christians and Constitutionalists, who come across as abusing power.

The natural reaction is to cling to counter groups and form equal numbers against these feared groups.

So that is why the liberals who fear Christians, conservatives and Constitutionalists
flock to the Democrat Party to seek political power to counteract groups they think are abusive of power
and cannot be stopped any other way.

I have friends who have specifically explained to me that is why they vote Democrat
as their only way of objecting and saying no to what they see as oppressive politics and religious imposition. They cannot forgive but FEAR these people, and seek any means of defending themselves against imposition and attack. So it goes in a vicious circle!

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear @sealybobo
I don't mind you blaming ALL Americans for not taking responsibility;
but I see it as unfair to "blame the rich" equally as it is wrongful to "blame the poor."
There are corrupt abusers in both the corporate and social welfare classes.
Both kinds of wrongdoers should be held equally accountable to stop this class war of
blaming all one group or another.

I agree with you that if the liberal or Democrat principles are recognized as "political beliefs"
so should the Constitutional and Conservative agenda be recognized as such.

If so, maybe we COULD start holding people accountable for their own beliefs and quit
trying to pass all the blame on the "other group." Both have their costs of corruption to answer to.

I agree we need EFFECTIVE and Constitutional/'ethical govt.
Instead of blaming one party or another, if we stick to the principles and policies we AGREE are effective
(and where we don't agree, allow EQUAL Freedom for parties to fund their OWN policies)
then everything would be held into account -- by those who b elieve in that policy and agree to pay for it.

Only places that are so efficient and general that ALL people agree to pay for would remain as centralized policy.

I think I would likely agree with 98% of what you point as good here or problematic there.
The main difference is not to argue about blaming the right more than the left, the rich more than the poor,
but address all govt waste, abuse and corruption wherever it occurs, and redress those grievances
instead of batting the ball back and forth into the other court, passing the buck around and around
where nobody ever resolves the actual causes of the conflicts or problems that both sides are yelling about.

Thread after thread after thread started by USMB Libs and their socks has made me ask Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

Because religion makes people ignorant

See The Religion of Liberalism.

You were saying something about religion making people ignorant. Quod erat demonstrandum

Whatever buddy. Because we have talking points just like you, that makes it a religion?

I hope you aren't denying that there is a Religion of Conservativism, are you?

And our religions says feed the poor, don't be greedy, don't go to war for oil, don't give the rich more tax breaks and the middle class' life harder, make energy, college and healthcare affordable, etc.

You righties talk about how you'd be fine on your own and we need big government. You are wrong. You do need a good government. Great example is Mexico. They have a bad government and good luck being successful there.

It turns out America is no longer the greatest place on the planet. All over the world other countries are now better places to live. Vancouver vs. Seattle for example. 30 years ago they wanted to come here. Now we want to go there and live. They're booming, we are not. Upward mobility, affordable healthcare, standard of living, savings, jobs.

America was the shining example and the rich undid half of what made us great.

Half? Yes half. It is still the best country if you are rich. They didn't undo that, YET. Because their way doesn't work and can't last. They put 90% of the money in 10% of the people's hand. The 90% with no money will revolt or at least unionize, organize and vote...I hope. I wish actually, because American's aren't even smart enough to vote in midterms. That's how the rich keep in power. They win ever 4 years because voters only show up for General elections. Hell, not even enough Americans vote in the General Elections. So they get what they deserve. Unfortunately they're dragging me with them.

Anyone who says "you need government and I don't" obviously already has his and isn't worried that the system is broke. As long as it's working for them. And many of "them" it isn't working for but they are brainwashed so they'll never vote for a "LIBERAL".

 

[sealybobo]

Thread after thread after thread started by USMB Libs and their socks has made me ask Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

Because religion makes people ignorant

See The Religion of Liberalism.

You were saying something about religion making people ignorant. Quod erat demonstrandum

Whatever buddy. Because we have talking points just like you, that makes it a religion?

I hope you aren't denying that there is a Religion of Conservativism, are you?

And our religions says feed the poor, don't be greedy, don't go to war for oil, don't give the rich more tax breaks and the middle class' life harder, make energy, college and healthcare affordable, etc.

You righties talk about how you'd be fine on your own and we need big government. You are wrong. You do need a good government. Great example is Mexico. They have a bad government and good luck being successful there.

It turns out America is no longer the greatest place on the planet. All over the world other countries are now better places to live. Vancouver vs. Seattle for example. 30 years ago they wanted to come here. Now we want to go there and live. They're booming, we are not. Upward mobility, affordable healthcare, standard of living, savings, jobs.

America was the shining example and the rich undid half of what made us great.

Half? Yes half. It is still the best country if you are rich. They didn't undo that, YET. Because their way doesn't work and can't last. They put 90% of the money in 10% of the people's hand. The 90% with no money will revolt or at least unionize, organize and vote...I hope. I wish actually, because American's aren't even smart enough to vote in midterms. That's how the rich keep in power. They win ever 4 years because voters only show up for General elections. Hell, not even enough Americans vote in the General Elections. So they get what they deserve. Unfortunately they're dragging me with them.

Anyone who says "you need government and I don't" obviously already has his and isn't worried that the system is broke. As long as it's working for them. And many of "them" it isn't working for but they are brainwashed so they'll never vote for a "LIBERAL".

This reply here, is what real greed looks like. The use of envy to promote greed is the bottom line.

What an ignorant fuck.

 

[Darkwind]

What an ignorant fuck.

Define greed and envy.

Then get back to Me.

 

[sealybobo]

Dear @sealybobo
I don't mind you blaming ALL Americans for not taking responsibility;
but I see it as unfair to "blame the rich" equally as it is wrongful to "blame the poor."
There are corrupt abusers in both the corporate and social welfare classes.
Both kinds of wrongdoers should be held equally accountable to stop this class war of
blaming all one group or another.

I agree with you that if the liberal or Democrat principles are recognized as "political beliefs"
so should the Constitutional and Conservative agenda be recognized as such.

If so, maybe we COULD start holding people accountable for their own beliefs and quit
trying to pass all the blame on the "other group." Both have their costs of corruption to answer to.

I agree we need EFFECTIVE and Constitutional/'ethical govt.
Instead of blaming one party or another, if we stick to the principles and policies we AGREE are effective
(and where we don't agree, allow EQUAL Freedom for parties to fund their OWN policies)
then everything would be held into account -- by those who b elieve in that policy and agree to pay for it.

Only places that are so efficient and general that ALL people agree to pay for would remain as centralized policy.

I think I would likely agree with 98% of what you point as good here or problematic there.
The main difference is not to argue about blaming the right more than the left, the rich more than the poor,
but address all govt waste, abuse and corruption wherever it occurs, and redress those grievances
instead of batting the ball back and forth into the other court, passing the buck around and around
where nobody ever resolves the actual causes of the conflicts or problems that both sides are yelling about.

Thread after thread after thread started by USMB Libs and their socks has made me ask Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

Because religion makes people ignorant

See The Religion of Liberalism.

You were saying something about religion making people ignorant. Quod erat demonstrandum

Whatever buddy. Because we have talking points just like you, that makes it a religion?

I hope you aren't denying that there is a Religion of Conservativism, are you?

And our religions says feed the poor, don't be greedy, don't go to war for oil, don't give the rich more tax breaks and the middle class' life harder, make energy, college and healthcare affordable, etc.

You righties talk about how you'd be fine on your own and we need big government. You are wrong. You do need a good government. Great example is Mexico. They have a bad government and good luck being successful there.

It turns out America is no longer the greatest place on the planet. All over the world other countries are now better places to live. Vancouver vs. Seattle for example. 30 years ago they wanted to come here. Now we want to go there and live. They're booming, we are not. Upward mobility, affordable healthcare, standard of living, savings, jobs.

America was the shining example and the rich undid half of what made us great.

Half? Yes half. It is still the best country if you are rich. They didn't undo that, YET. Because their way doesn't work and can't last. They put 90% of the money in 10% of the people's hand. The 90% with no money will revolt or at least unionize, organize and vote...I hope. I wish actually, because American's aren't even smart enough to vote in midterms. That's how the rich keep in power. They win ever 4 years because voters only show up for General elections. Hell, not even enough Americans vote in the General Elections. So they get what they deserve. Unfortunately they're dragging me with them.

Anyone who says "you need government and I don't" obviously already has his and isn't worried that the system is broke. As long as it's working for them. And many of "them" it isn't working for but they are brainwashed so they'll never vote for a "LIBERAL".

Here is the problem. When the tea baggers got in, they went right away to attacking social security, food stamps, welfare and every other social program that help the poor & middle class.

They didn't cut ANY corporate waste, fraud or welfare.

And so they cut stuff that the poor and middle class benefit from, and they used those cuts to give themselves massive tax breaks.

LOOOONG story short, America is broken. We have 90% of the money going to 10% of the population. America doesn't work that way.

The right will cry class envy and class warfare and socialism and communism but the fact is they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Stop crying about what's fair. What works is what you should be asking. The rich took all the money not only when Bush was president but afterward. Do you not believe that was by design? They purposely crashed the economy and then benefited from it GREATLY! Renigged on pensions, cut salaries and number of employees, shipped jobs overseas, broke unions, lowered wages, etc.

Why weren't the rich happy in the 90's? Because the American workers made too much $, that's why. No other reason. They were rich back then but it wasn't enough. They got Clinton to sign NAFTA and they really fucked the American workers.

 

[sealybobo]

What an ignorant fuck.

Define greed and envy.

Then get back to Me.

A winner take all, darwin, Ayn Rand, Libertarian, Tea bagging right wing conservative government survival of the fittest.

If you argue for a government like this you are greedy and the rich didn't like the middle class doing so well. Why? Were they envious of us?

We didn't begrudge them for being rich. In fact we liked America because it as a place where anyone could get rich. The fact is, America ain't what it use to be.

I could go on and on but why explain it to a cock sucker? I'll tell you this. The rich removed the safety nets they had in place when they made it big in America. With those safety nets gone, it isn't as easy to start a new business or go to college like it was when they were coming up.

And for that they are greedy fucks and that's why we need to be represented by a government, not greedy corporations.

When I went to school it cost $5K a year. How much does it cost today? You right wingers don't know what you have done. And when your kids have a $100K college loan and are bagging at Walmart, you can blame the Liberals. Dumb fuckers.

 

[Dot Com]

Thread after thread after thread started by USMB Libs and their socks has made me ask Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

what religion? You rw people's religion?

 

[emilynghiem]

OK @sealybobo
So why not let the Greens pursue the accounting on both Democrat and Republican corporate welfare fraud?
Why not let the Libertarians check the Drug War abuses of tax money and authority.
Let the Liberals go after all the corrupt war spending. etc. etc.
And sure, if the Democrats are also not checking welfare or health/immigration fraud, then let
Republicans or others go after that. Until All taxpayers are paid back for All cases of fraud and abuse!

Why argue about one over the other? Why not go after them all, and delegate responsibility
to the parties that Specialize in researching and correcting these areas?

I have no problem with what you are saying. I want to take it a step further,
unite all the groups and go after payback of debts to the public and solutions!

Dear @sealybobo
I don't mind you blaming ALL Americans for not taking responsibility;
but I see it as unfair to "blame the rich" equally as it is wrongful to "blame the poor."
There are corrupt abusers in both the corporate and social welfare classes.
Both kinds of wrongdoers should be held equally accountable to stop this class war of
blaming all one group or another.

I agree with you that if the liberal or Democrat principles are recognized as "political beliefs"
so should the Constitutional and Conservative agenda be recognized as such.

If so, maybe we COULD start holding people accountable for their own beliefs and quit
trying to pass all the blame on the "other group." Both have their costs of corruption to answer to.

I agree we need EFFECTIVE and Constitutional/'ethical govt.
Instead of blaming one party or another, if we stick to the principles and policies we AGREE are effective
(and where we don't agree, allow EQUAL Freedom for parties to fund their OWN policies)
then everything would be held into account -- by those who b elieve in that policy and agree to pay for it.

Only places that are so efficient and general that ALL people agree to pay for would remain as centralized policy.

I think I would likely agree with 98% of what you point as good here or problematic there.
The main difference is not to argue about blaming the right more than the left, the rich more than the poor,
but address all govt waste, abuse and corruption wherever it occurs, and redress those grievances
instead of batting the ball back and forth into the other court, passing the buck around and around
where nobody ever resolves the actual causes of the conflicts or problems that both sides are yelling about.

Thread after thread after thread started by USMB Libs and their socks has made me ask Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

Because religion makes people ignorant

See The Religion of Liberalism.

You were saying something about religion making people ignorant. Quod erat demonstrandum

Whatever buddy. Because we have talking points just like you, that makes it a religion?

I hope you aren't denying that there is a Religion of Conservativism, are you?

And our religions says feed the poor, don't be greedy, don't go to war for oil, don't give the rich more tax breaks and the middle class' life harder, make energy, college and healthcare affordable, etc.

You righties talk about how you'd be fine on your own and we need big government. You are wrong. You do need a good government. Great example is Mexico. They have a bad government and good luck being successful there.

It turns out America is no longer the greatest place on the planet. All over the world other countries are now better places to live. Vancouver vs. Seattle for example. 30 years ago they wanted to come here. Now we want to go there and live. They're booming, we are not. Upward mobility, affordable healthcare, standard of living, savings, jobs.

America was the shining example and the rich undid half of what made us great.

Half? Yes half. It is still the best country if you are rich. They didn't undo that, YET. Because their way doesn't work and can't last. They put 90% of the money in 10% of the people's hand. The 90% with no money will revolt or at least unionize, organize and vote...I hope. I wish actually, because American's aren't even smart enough to vote in midterms. That's how the rich keep in power. They win ever 4 years because voters only show up for General elections. Hell, not even enough Americans vote in the General Elections. So they get what they deserve. Unfortunately they're dragging me with them.

Anyone who says "you need government and I don't" obviously already has his and isn't worried that the system is broke. As long as it's working for them. And many of "them" it isn't working for but they are brainwashed so they'll never vote for a "LIBERAL".

Here is the problem. When the tea baggers got in, they went right away to attacking social security, food stamps, welfare and every other social program that help the poor & middle class.

They didn't cut ANY corporate waste, fraud or welfare.

And so they cut stuff that the poor and middle class benefit from, and they used those cuts to give themselves massive tax breaks.

LOOOONG story short, America is broken. We have 90% of the money going to 10% of the population. America doesn't work that way.

The right will cry class envy and class warfare and socialism and communism but the fact is they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Stop crying about what's fair. What works is what you should be asking. The rich took all the money not only when Bush was president but afterward. Do you not believe that was by design? They purposely crashed the economy and then benefited from it GREATLY! Renigged on pensions, cut salaries and number of employees, shipped jobs overseas, broke unions, lowered wages, etc.

Why weren't the rich happy in the 90's? Because the American workers made too much $, that's why. No other reason. They were rich back then but it wasn't enough. They got Clinton to sign NAFTA and they really fucked the American workers.

 

[sealybobo]

OK @sealybobo
So why not let the Greens pursue the accounting on both Democrat and Republican corporate welfare fraud?
Why not let the Libertarians check the Drug War abuses of tax money and authority.
Let the Liberals go after all the corrupt war spending. etc. etc.
And sure, if the Democrats are also not checking welfare or health/immigration fraud, then let
Republicans or others go after that. Until All taxpayers are paid back for All cases of fraud and abuse!

Why argue about one over the other? Why not go after them all, and delegate responsibility
to the parties that Specialize in researching and correcting these areas?

I have no problem with what you are saying. I want to take it a step further,
unite all the groups and go after payback of debts to the public and solutions!

Dear @sealybobo
I don't mind you blaming ALL Americans for not taking responsibility;
but I see it as unfair to "blame the rich" equally as it is wrongful to "blame the poor."
There are corrupt abusers in both the corporate and social welfare classes.
Both kinds of wrongdoers should be held equally accountable to stop this class war of
blaming all one group or another.

I agree with you that if the liberal or Democrat principles are recognized as "political beliefs"
so should the Constitutional and Conservative agenda be recognized as such.

If so, maybe we COULD start holding people accountable for their own beliefs and quit
trying to pass all the blame on the "other group." Both have their costs of corruption to answer to.

I agree we need EFFECTIVE and Constitutional/'ethical govt.
Instead of blaming one party or another, if we stick to the principles and policies we AGREE are effective
(and where we don't agree, allow EQUAL Freedom for parties to fund their OWN policies)
then everything would be held into account -- by those who b elieve in that policy and agree to pay for it.

Only places that are so efficient and general that ALL people agree to pay for would remain as centralized policy.

I think I would likely agree with 98% of what you point as good here or problematic there.
The main difference is not to argue about blaming the right more than the left, the rich more than the poor,
but address all govt waste, abuse and corruption wherever it occurs, and redress those grievances
instead of batting the ball back and forth into the other court, passing the buck around and around
where nobody ever resolves the actual causes of the conflicts or problems that both sides are yelling about.

Thread after thread after thread started by USMB Libs and their socks has made me ask Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

Because religion makes people ignorant

See The Religion of Liberalism.

You were saying something about religion making people ignorant. Quod erat demonstrandum

Whatever buddy. Because we have talking points just like you, that makes it a religion?

I hope you aren't denying that there is a Religion of Conservativism, are you?

And our religions says feed the poor, don't be greedy, don't go to war for oil, don't give the rich more tax breaks and the middle class' life harder, make energy, college and healthcare affordable, etc.

You righties talk about how you'd be fine on your own and we need big government. You are wrong. You do need a good government. Great example is Mexico. They have a bad government and good luck being successful there.

It turns out America is no longer the greatest place on the planet. All over the world other countries are now better places to live. Vancouver vs. Seattle for example. 30 years ago they wanted to come here. Now we want to go there and live. They're booming, we are not. Upward mobility, affordable healthcare, standard of living, savings, jobs.

America was the shining example and the rich undid half of what made us great.

Half? Yes half. It is still the best country if you are rich. They didn't undo that, YET. Because their way doesn't work and can't last. They put 90% of the money in 10% of the people's hand. The 90% with no money will revolt or at least unionize, organize and vote...I hope. I wish actually, because American's aren't even smart enough to vote in midterms. That's how the rich keep in power. They win ever 4 years because voters only show up for General elections. Hell, not even enough Americans vote in the General Elections. So they get what they deserve. Unfortunately they're dragging me with them.

Anyone who says "you need government and I don't" obviously already has his and isn't worried that the system is broke. As long as it's working for them. And many of "them" it isn't working for but they are brainwashed so they'll never vote for a "LIBERAL".

Here is the problem. When the tea baggers got in, they went right away to attacking social security, food stamps, welfare and every other social program that help the poor & middle class.

They didn't cut ANY corporate waste, fraud or welfare.

And so they cut stuff that the poor and middle class benefit from, and they used those cuts to give themselves massive tax breaks.

LOOOONG story short, America is broken. We have 90% of the money going to 10% of the population. America doesn't work that way.

The right will cry class envy and class warfare and socialism and communism but the fact is they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Stop crying about what's fair. What works is what you should be asking. The rich took all the money not only when Bush was president but afterward. Do you not believe that was by design? They purposely crashed the economy and then benefited from it GREATLY! Renigged on pensions, cut salaries and number of employees, shipped jobs overseas, broke unions, lowered wages, etc.

Why weren't the rich happy in the 90's? Because the American workers made too much $, that's why. No other reason. They were rich back then but it wasn't enough. They got Clinton to sign NAFTA and they really fucked the American workers.

I agree. But they won't go after the real fraud and abuse. The wasteful war/pentagon spending. The corporate welfare. The tax loopholes.

And the GOP, even with Obama as President and the Dems controlling the Senate, have gotten major cuts pushed through or passed. All their cuts came from the social safety nets.

SO it seems we have given the other sides what they wanted. Now lets see if they give us anything we want. They won't? I didn't think so.

PS. It is impossible to get the middle class to unite so we can take back our government. Half the middle class thinks the word Democrat is a dirty word. So instead of joining us they get suckered into joining the tea baggers who are Koch funded or the Libertarians who want a every man for himself survival of the fittest type society. Or they are conned into voting GOP over wedge issues like god, gays, guns and racism.

In the 90's we were doing so well we had the luxury of voting because of wedge issues. For example, how many union factory workers might have voted GOP because of Guns or abortion? Today we see that the GOP cut their pensions, sent their jobs overseas and broke their unions and made them pay more for healthcare. Not only did they do this but Governor Snyder in Michigan tax Seniors pensions and raised their property taxes. SO, if any of them vote for Snyder in November, I guess they get what they deserve.

 

[sameech]

Thread after thread after thread started by USMB Libs and their socks has made me ask Why do Progressives Hate Religion?

I am fairly progressive though not particularly partisan toward the democrats, and I have no problem with religion or religion in politics or people disagreeing with me for religious reasons. Some of my guiding principles are religious in nature. Life just takes us all in different directions. My view on the world might vary greatly from my neighbors. No big deal.

 

[JoeB131]

Well this thread turned into an Emily verbal diarrhea thread. Unwatch

 

[G.T.]

Who said that "Tebowing" wasn't okay?

I mean, I don't care, but I'd have serious reservations about a God who won't end famine but has a vested interest in how football games turn out.

My brother believes Tebow was picked on and not playing because of his Christianity.

He says, "he got Denver into the playoffs and even won a playoff game and they still got rid of him?"

So basically no matter how good Tebow did, it was never going to be good enough.

I can see his point. I don't think they picked on him because of his religion seeing as how 90% of the NFL are religious and so is the country, but I can see Tebow supporters points on why they think he's being picked on. I too think he proved his critics wrong but they still say he is not built for being a QB in the NFL. Sure seemed to do alright as far as I could tell.

Matthew Stafford has yet to win a playoff game in Detroit yet he is still starting.

He didn't "do alright, his numbers were absolutely terrible.

 

[emilynghiem]

I agree. But they won't go after the real fraud and abuse. The wasteful war/pentagon spending. The corporate welfare. The tax loopholes.

That's what I'm saying: let the people go after the fraud and abuse who DO specialize in policing that! There are plenty of advocacy groups on ALL sides that have invested resources in researching the wrongs of one group or another.
Let's organize a coalition and work with law schools, form teams around each case, and set up a system of restitution for taxpayers to get paid back. If one school or law firm only goes after environmental/corporate cases, and another only goes after corrupt war spending, etc. that's good enough! Delegate out the work; don't try to force the wrong groups to do what they are not motivated to do, listen to the grievances they ARE willing to pursue and fix them ALL.

Don't you know the opponents of liberal abuses are the "only ones" willing to point out corruption by Democrats?
So why not go after ALL of these? I think the Libertarians, Greens, and others would welcome holding all Parties accountable instead of taking turns trying to blame one or the other for political points. What about real corrections?

PS. It is impossible to get the middle class to unite so we can take back our government. Half the middle class thinks the word Democrat is a dirty word. So instead of joining us they get suckered into joining the tea baggers who are Koch funded or the Libertarians who want a every man for himself survival of the fittest type society. Or they are conned into voting GOP over wedge issues like god, gays, guns and racism.

In the 90's we were doing so well we had the luxury of voting because of wedge issues. For example, how many union factory workers might have voted GOP because of Guns or abortion? Today we see that the GOP cut their pensions, sent their jobs overseas and broke their unions and made them pay more for healthcare. Not only did they do this but Governor Snyder in Michigan tax Seniors pensions and raised their property taxes. SO, if any of them vote for Snyder in November, I guess they get what they deserve.

I'd say it is hard to get people to SEE the need and benefit in uniting.
But it is necessary and may be INEVITABLE in order to correct the current situation.

One key is to make it clear that people DO NOT need to "change their views to the other side" in order to unite against common problems and focus on points of common solutions.

For example, I have friends who are Atheist, Muslim, Jewish-Christian who do not agree with each other's religions and never will. But they agree on peace and justice, and just focus on steps to take they do agree on.

And that's enough.

When people quit thinking and fearing that to work on common solutions means to compromise one's views for the "other side" maybe we can start finding and taking those steps we can agree will work to fix problems.

So the hardest part is overcoming the fear of manipulation or compromise.
Why not just accept the fact we have differences and find where we agree DESPITE those.

Those few areas are enough to keep us plenty busy and solve the key root of most problems.
We don't want corruption and abuse/waste of govt power, policy and taxdollars.

If we agree on solutions, we can agree to invest there either publicly or privately whatever works best.
if we do not agree, we can agree to build privately, just like religions practice separate ways and don't
have to compete to make one way the only right way for everyone else, to each his own, and you just
practice and develop the community and culture around your way of doing things and let others have their way.

If we can even get that understanding in place, the rest can be worked out.

Everyone from every party I see, has solutions in different areas. Why not organize them all
and start taking on the tasks of troubleshooting and solving these problems and paying back taxpayers
for whatever abuse was going on. If there is no money to replace what was wasted, issue credits and work off the debts. If investors lend the money against the debt, let communities and businesses buy back local land and schools as collateral and invest in rebuilding localized govt that they have ownership in so there is not outside abuse going on by political groups exploiting and controlling others. Reward taxpayers for fixing govt ourselves by giving the option to lend or buy back districts against the debts owed to taxpayers for corruption and abuses.

All people want control and representation in whatever policies affect them, and want a choice if they are going to give power to other groups; nobody wants to be controlled or abused by some outside group they cannot check.

We set up mutual respect, regardless of people's political or religious views, and we can organize around each issue that needs to be resolved and get something done, instead of dividing and fighting each other wasting energy, time, attention and resources while our country is going downhill. instead of arguing who let the house catch on fire and burn, let's work on identifying the areas of the fires and put them out. We can figure out how to rebuild from there, but let's not argue while the house is burning down.

 

[sealybobo]

I agree. But they won't go after the real fraud and abuse. The wasteful war/pentagon spending. The corporate welfare. The tax loopholes.

That's what I'm saying: let the people go after the fraud and abuse who DO specialize in policing that! There are plenty of advocacy groups on ALL sides that have invested resources in researching the wrongs of one group or another.
Let's organize a coalition and work with law schools, form teams around each case, and set up a system of restitution for taxpayers to get paid back. If one school or law firm only goes after environmental/corporate cases, and another only goes after corrupt war spending, etc. that's good enough! Delegate out the work; don't try to force the wrong groups to do what they are not motivated to do, listen to the grievances they ARE willing to pursue and fix them ALL.

Don't you know the opponents of liberal abuses are the "only ones" willing to point out corruption by Democrats?
So why not go after ALL of these? I think the Libertarians, Greens, and others would welcome holding all Parties accountable instead of taking turns trying to blame one or the other for political points. What about real corrections?

PS. It is impossible to get the middle class to unite so we can take back our government. Half the middle class thinks the word Democrat is a dirty word. So instead of joining us they get suckered into joining the tea baggers who are Koch funded or the Libertarians who want a every man for himself survival of the fittest type society. Or they are conned into voting GOP over wedge issues like god, gays, guns and racism.

In the 90's we were doing so well we had the luxury of voting because of wedge issues. For example, how many union factory workers might have voted GOP because of Guns or abortion? Today we see that the GOP cut their pensions, sent their jobs overseas and broke their unions and made them pay more for healthcare. Not only did they do this but Governor Snyder in Michigan tax Seniors pensions and raised their property taxes. SO, if any of them vote for Snyder in November, I guess they get what they deserve.

I'd say it is hard to get people to SEE the need and benefit in uniting.
But it is necessary and may be INEVITABLE in order to correct the current situation.

One key is to make it clear that people DO NOT need to "change their views to the other side" in order to unite against common problems and focus on points of common solutions.

For example, I have friends who are Atheist, Muslim, Jewish-Christian who do not agree with each other's religions and never will. But they agree on peace and justice, and just focus on steps to take they do agree on.

And that's enough.

When people quit thinking and fearing that to work on common solutions means to compromise one's views for the "other side" maybe we can start finding and taking those steps we can agree will work to fix problems.

So the hardest part is overcoming the fear of manipulation or compromise.
Why not just accept the fact we have differences and find where we agree DESPITE those.

Those few areas are enough to keep us plenty busy and solve the key root of most problems.
We don't want corruption and abuse/waste of govt power, policy and taxdollars.

If we agree on solutions, we can agree to invest there either publicly or privately whatever works best.
if we do not agree, we can agree to build privately, just like religions practice separate ways and don't
have to compete to make one way the only right way for everyone else, to each his own, and you just
practice and develop the community and culture around your way of doing things and let others have their way.

If we can even get that understanding in place, the rest can be worked out.

Everyone from every party I see, has solutions in different areas. Why not organize them all
and start taking on the tasks of troubleshooting and solving these problems and paying back taxpayers
for whatever abuse was going on. If there is no money to replace what was wasted, issue credits and work off the debts. If investors lend the money against the debt, let communities and businesses buy back local land and schools as collateral and invest in rebuilding localized govt that they have ownership in so there is not outside abuse going on by political groups exploiting and controlling others. Reward taxpayers for fixing govt ourselves by giving the option to lend or buy back districts against the debts owed to taxpayers for corruption and abuses.

All people want control and representation in whatever policies affect them, and want a choice if they are going to give power to other groups; nobody wants to be controlled or abused by some outside group they cannot check.

We set up mutual respect, regardless of people's political or religious views, and we can organize around each issue that needs to be resolved and get something done, instead of dividing and fighting each other wasting energy, time, attention and resources while our country is going downhill. instead of arguing who let the house catch on fire and burn, let's work on identifying the areas of the fires and put them out. We can figure out how to rebuild from there, but let's not argue while the house is burning down.

A great opportunity would have been when the Wall Street Protesters protested but then the corporate media started calling all those people slackers and hippies and takers.

Any question Wall Street fucked us?

Did you notice how quietly the corporate media was on this? Did you get the money they stole from you back? I didn't. I never will because I'm not in over my head on my mortgage thank god, but I still got fucked by these criminals. Did anyone go to jail? NOPE.

The truth behind the 17 billion Bank of America settlement MSNBC

“This historic resolution—the largest such settlement on record

The settlement’s $7 billion consumer relief package accompanies nearly $10 billion in fines, as well as a formal admission from the bank that it knowingly misled the government and the public about the value of toxic mortgage securities.

Key word KNOWINGLY! Us liberals were screaming at the righties in 2007 that not only did the bankers fuck us, they KNOWINGLY did it. I even think they did it on purpose. They got to renig on pensions, move jobs overseas, let employees go, use the crisis to push for tax breaks, break unions, etc. I could go on and on.

Anyways, notice the right argued with us. It was Freddy Macks fault they said. It was Harry Reeds fault. It was Nancy Pelosi. Then Obama took over, they gave him about a month and it was his fault.

And the GOP fought him every step of the way. And the dumb ass American people didn't show up in 2010 and the GOP were rewarded. And people won't show up this midterm and the GOP will be rewarded again.

The American people are stupid. This is why I try not to talk politics with them because they infuriate me. Even you because you want us to play nice with the enemy. Yes, the ENEMY. This is class warfare. They waged it and we're losing. But a lot of Americans are content to be losers. They still think they live in the greatest country on earth. Not anymore unless they are rich or upper middle class. If they are middle class, lower middle class or poor they could do better in Canada now a days. Sad but true. Want to be able to afford college and be able to retire with dignity? If you stay in America you better do real well. If you do not do REAL well then you'll have better luck in Canada or Australia with free healthcare. Right now healthcare and food are eating up the middle class' disposable income. That's what they buy things with and that is what they save for retirement.

Check out how much Americans are saving and how much they are in debt. PATHETIC!

 

[sealybobo]

Who said that "Tebowing" wasn't okay?

I mean, I don't care, but I'd have serious reservations about a God who won't end famine but has a vested interest in how football games turn out.

My brother believes Tebow was picked on and not playing because of his Christianity.

He says, "he got Denver into the playoffs and even won a playoff game and they still got rid of him?"

So basically no matter how good Tebow did, it was never going to be good enough.

I can see his point. I don't think they picked on him because of his religion seeing as how 90% of the NFL are religious and so is the country, but I can see Tebow supporters points on why they think he's being picked on. I too think he proved his critics wrong but they still say he is not built for being a QB in the NFL. Sure seemed to do alright as far as I could tell.

Matthew Stafford has yet to win a playoff game in Detroit yet he is still starting.

He didn't "do alright, his numbers were absolutely terrible.

He won enough games to get the Bronco's into the playoffs and they won 1 playoff game. I'm just saying that's better than Matthew Stafford has done.

It may even be true that he isn't built for the NFL. BUT, he did prove you wrong when he made the playoffs and won a game. What more would he have to do to prove you wrong? You can say all you want, no one gave him a chance. If you made him the starter for 1 year and he failed, then I'd agree he got his chance and failed, but that never happened. What happened is he got his chance and he did a good job. Hater. LOL.

PS. I don't love Tebow. I'm just calling it like I saw it. I know, the coaches and scouts all say he's not built for it. Neither was Doug Flute.

 

[G.T.]

Who said that "Tebowing" wasn't okay?

I mean, I don't care, but I'd have serious reservations about a God who won't end famine but has a vested interest in how football games turn out.

My brother believes Tebow was picked on and not playing because of his Christianity.

He says, "he got Denver into the playoffs and even won a playoff game and they still got rid of him?"

So basically no matter how good Tebow did, it was never going to be good enough.

I can see his point. I don't think they picked on him because of his religion seeing as how 90% of the NFL are religious and so is the country, but I can see Tebow supporters points on why they think he's being picked on. I too think he proved his critics wrong but they still say he is not built for being a QB in the NFL. Sure seemed to do alright as far as I could tell.

Matthew Stafford has yet to win a playoff game in Detroit yet he is still starting.

He didn't "do alright, his numbers were absolutely terrible.

He won enough games to get the Bronco's into the playoffs and they won 1 playoff game. I'm just saying that's better than Matthew Stafford has done.

It may even be true that he isn't built for the NFL. BUT, he did prove you wrong when he made the playoffs and won a game. What more would he have to do to prove you wrong? You can say all you want, no one gave him a chance. If you made him the starter for 1 year and he failed, then I'd agree he got his chance and failed, but that never happened. What happened is he got his chance and he did a good job. Hater. LOL.

PS. I don't love Tebow. I'm just calling it like I saw it. I know, the coaches and scouts all say he's not built for it. Neither was Doug Flute.

When he went on his mini 6 game win streak, all 6 teams were under .500 and zero of them made the playoffs, and even how bad they WERE, each game came down to within seconds.

And Denver aside from Tebow was a solid team.

Added a great qb, got to the superbowl.

Then he won the 1 playoff game against a qb who had a sprained ankle and the top running back was out, along with a number of defensive injuries on that steelers team.

Tebow was like 3rd from the bottom for qb rating that year. Don't let a win streak fool you, he was horrific. Play the games back.