Why Did The South Secede?

[JakeStarkey]

Justify Lincoln's appropriate response to preserve constitutional, electoral process, which the traitors were bent on destroying? Why, yes, sensible and responsible and moral Americans support what he did. Of course they do

 

[Samson]

This thread was interesting 500 threads ago.

How's your math? Your post is #328. 500 - 328 = ???

I said THREADS, moron.



As usual, making you look like an idiot is just too easy.

Mea culpa, I'm not perfect, but only an asshole calls someone a moron for a simple mistake. Don't you agree, asshole?

Tissue?

I hope you like "Hello Kitty."

It seemed to be the best choice for one with your delicate sensibilities.

Hope you recover,
Samson

 

[rightwinger]

Gip, traitors fired on Old Glory flying above Ft Sumter.

Traitors....that is foolish.

So now Lincoln was justified in murdering thousands of southerns, because they were traitors. If that be the case, every state in all of history has the right to kill anyone who opposes it....

Are you a totalitarian or just ignorant?

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

 

[gipper]

Gip, traitors fired on Old Glory flying above Ft Sumter.

Traitors....that is foolish.

So now Lincoln was justified in murdering thousands of southerns, because they were traitors. If that be the case, every state in all of history has the right to kill anyone who opposes it....

Are you a totalitarian or just ignorant?

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

 

[rightwinger]

Gip, traitors fired on Old Glory flying above Ft Sumter.

Traitors....that is foolish.

So now Lincoln was justified in murdering thousands of southerns, because they were traitors. If that be the case, every state in all of history has the right to kill anyone who opposes it....

Are you a totalitarian or just ignorant?

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

Yea.....that is about right

Any person who fights to the death for the right to enslave other humans deserves no consideration

 

[JakeStarkey]

Anybody in revolt against We the People with arms in hands need no summary tribunal, simply put against the wall and dispatched.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Traitors....that is foolish.

So now Lincoln was justified in murdering thousands of southerns, because they were traitors. If that be the case, every state in all of history has the right to kill anyone who opposes it....

Are you a totalitarian or just ignorant?

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

Yea.....that is about right

Any person who fights to the death for the right to enslave other humans deserves no consideration

Yepp.

In the 21st century, I find it hard to believe that anyone in their right mind would want to try to relitigate the "why's" of the Civil War, and make no doubt about it, the secession of the South is what sparked that war.

It's just plain old stupid to try to find more reasons other than the 45 ton elephant sitting in the room.

Gawd.

 

[longly]

Gip, traitors fired on Old Glory flying above Ft Sumter.

Traitors....that is foolish.

So now Lincoln was justified in murdering thousands of southerns, because they were traitors. If that be the case, every state in all of history has the right to kill anyone who opposes it....

Are you a totalitarian or just ignorant?

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

What about Jane Fonda?

 

[longly]

Gip, traitors fired on Old Glory flying above Ft Sumter.

Traitors....that is foolish.

So now Lincoln was justified in murdering thousands of southerns, because they were traitors. If that be the case, every state in all of history has the right to kill anyone who opposes it....

Are you a totalitarian or just ignorant?

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

Gip, traitors fired on Old Glory flying above Ft Sumter.

Traitors....that is foolish.

So now Lincoln was justified in murdering thousands of southerns, because they were traitors. If that be the case, every state in all of history has the right to kill anyone who opposes it....

Are you a totalitarian or just ignorant?

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

What about Jane Fonda?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why Did The South Secede?

It didn't:


“The Court held that individual states could not unilaterally secede from the Union and that the acts of the insurgent Texas legislature--even if ratified by a majority of Texans--were "absolutely null." Even during the period of rebellion, however, the Court found that Texas continued to be a state.”


Texas v. White The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of Law

 

[JakeStarkey]

States had no right to secede, so they didn't regardless of what they said.

 

[rightwinger]

Traitors....that is foolish.

So now Lincoln was justified in murdering thousands of southerns, because they were traitors. If that be the case, every state in all of history has the right to kill anyone who opposes it....

Are you a totalitarian or just ignorant?

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

Traitors....that is foolish.

So now Lincoln was justified in murdering thousands of southerns, because they were traitors. If that be the case, every state in all of history has the right to kill anyone who opposes it....

Are you a totalitarian or just ignorant?

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

What about Jane Fonda?

She never took up arms against our country. She tried to stop a senseless war

 

[gipper]

States had no right to secede, so they didn't regardless of what they said.

Yes...the State MUST live for perpetuity...so thinks the statists.

Good thing Scotland did not secede. Cause if the Brits believe as you guys do, the Scots would be murdered and the property destroyed. You guys would nuke the Scots...right?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Derivative analogies fall apart quickly, and yours did not even get off the ground.

The South simply had to keep slavery within the South (and if slavery was disappearing, why notkeept it there), obey constitutional and electoral process, and respect federal property.

 

[longly]

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

What about Jane Fonda?

She never took up arms against our country. She tried to stop a senseless war

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

Call it want you want

Traitors, slavers, tyrants

And they are all worthy of DEATH by the State...because a few of them fired a few cannonballs on a state owned fort...in which no one died or was injured.

Seems like a most tyrannical intolerant statist opinion to me...but the Lincoln Cult has turned many Americans into mindless statist drones.

I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor

You forgot to complete your sentence. Let me do it for you.

"I consider any American who takes up arms against my country and fires upon my flag to be a traitor
worthy of death, suffering, and complete destruction."

You are so kind.

What about Jane Fonda?

She never took up arms against our country. She tried to stop a senseless war

She provided aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war. In war propaganda can be as deadly as bullets. You seem to want to have it both ways; by the Constitution, it is Congress that decides what is and what is not a senseless war.

 

[JakeStarkey]

longly, if we declared war, then perhaps you would have a legal case.

We did not, and you do not.

 

[longly]

longly, if we declared war, then perhaps you would have a legal case.

We did not, and you do not.

I have no interest in the legal aspects what interest me are the historical facts. The facts are US soldiers were fighting and dying in Vietnam in a struggle with an evil ideology. And Jane Fonda supported the enemy. That is treason.

 

[mikegriffith1]

One question that rarely gets asked, much less answered, is, Why did Northern leaders refuse to allow the South to leave in peace? Clearly, their refusal to accept the Confederate peace offer had nothing to do with slavery, since secession settled the thorny issue of slavery in the territories in the North's favor, since the North would no longer have to worry about enforcing the Fugitive Slave Law, and since, as even John Nicolay noted, separation would have the effect of moving the Canadian border to the South's northern border. So if slavery was the real issue, Northern leaders should have been thrilled with secession.

If we read Northern newspapers from the time South Carolina seceded until the announcement of the low Confederate tariff, we see a number of editorials in favor of allowing the South to leave in peace. But many newspapers changed their tune very quickly after the Confederacy announced its low tariff. In a matter of days, some Northern newspapers began to warn of dire consequences for Northern businesses if Northern ports had to compete with Southern ports.

We see another clear hint in Lincoln's first inaugural address. He mentioned two reasons that he would invade: to enforce federal authority in the seceded states and to collect the tariff (to collect "duties and imposts"). Interesting. Not one word about invading to free any slaves. In fact, in that same speech, Lincoln mentioned his support for the Corwin Amendment, which would have forever prohibited the federal government from abolishing slavery.

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that the South did in fact secede only to protect slavery, that still leaves us with the fact that the North's refusal to allow the South to leave in peace had nothing to do with any concerns about slavery.

However, the record is clear that the South did not secede merely to protect slavery. Not only did four of the seven Deep South states mention economic complaints, especially the tariff, in their secession documents and/or addresses and speeches, but the four Upper South states initially voted against secession when slavery and the tariff were the main issues, and they only changed their minds later, after the fall of Fort Sumter, when it became obvious that Lincoln was going to launch an invasion.

For more information about the tariff as a major factor in sectional strife and secession, see
The Tariff and Secession.

 

[rightwinger]

longly, if we declared war, then perhaps you would have a legal case.

We did not, and you do not.

I have no interest in the legal aspects what interest me are the historical facts. The facts are US soldiers were fighting and dying in Vietnam in a struggle with an evil ideology. And Jane Fonda supported the enemy. That is treason.

Jane Fonda fought against an unjust and unnecessary war

The real treason was those lying to send more boys to their death

 

[JakeStarkey]

longly, if we declared war, then perhaps you would have a legal case.

We did not, and you do not.

I have no interest in the legal aspects what interest me are the historical facts. The facts are US soldiers were fighting and dying in Vietnam in a struggle with an evil ideology. And Jane Fonda supported the enemy. That is treason.

You are entitlted to your opinion but not your own definitions. It was not treason.