Why did so many Germans support Hitler?

[westwall]

What in the hell was hitler card number? Do you realize just how stupid you sound, hitler joined because he wanted to take over the workes socialist party? You don't join a group of people you don't like. That would be as me saying I am going to become a liberal democrat to take over the party.

I fear Bfgrn has been talked at a lot, and told what to think but I doubt he has done much serious reading on the subject. As evidenced by the above post.

i did mucho serious reading on the subject. bfgrn has it dead right, and you and fatboyrebel et al are seriously out of sync with reality and history.

I too have done some pretty serious reading and lived in Germany for two years and actually talked to a lot of the folks involved as well as a ton of combat soldiers, (I am a member of a couple of their kameradschafts) and the people absolutely DID support Hitler for almost the whole time he was in power.

The whole goal of the NAZI's was to develop a "volksgemeinschaft" (look it up, it will mean more to you that way). But they were successful in developing a "frontgemeinschaft" and that was why the Deutsche soldaten were able to accomplish so much with so little. One of my German friends was captured at Anzio and even after being captured was certain the Germans would win...till he got to North Africa and saw 7 miles of fuel containers.

As he told me "had we had that amount of supply there would have been no stopping us, we never had anything approaching that amount...amazing!"

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Funny how a debate about german history easily gets the furor into you Yanks.

What most here do is to view at this question while only seeing your own agenda.

The Germans did not support Hitler-
In 1933 he came to power as head of a multi-party coalition, brought to office by the far-right, a half-senile President (who definitely was not a friend of the republic, but notwithstanding took his oath to the constitution serious).

He certainly had a mandate in 1933 to end partisanship, economic crisis and the fear of bolshevism.
That he had a mandate to start a war, to lay Europe in ruins and to kill more than 50 million people was not the case. The end of 1945 was not easily foreseen in 1933.

And:

Hitler was no socialist. All this crap about Obama as a Nazi or Socialism equals Nazism is not getting the point.

As Goebbels once stated:

We do not want low bread prices, we do not want high bread prices, we want National Socialist bread prices.

The Nazis mostly gave a shit about ideology.
How to get Himmlers germanic mystizism, with his believe in astrology, Hitlers religious belief in Wagner etc. into one ideology ?
Just tell everybody what he wants to hear.

Interestingly, if you look at the respective ideological groups, the Nazis in general did not succeed with their ideology.
To the conservatives, especially the old-fashioned ones, Hitler was just an upstart, a corporal in the War.
To a lot of workers the Nazis were no Socialists. There were enough workers quarters in Germany, where being out azt night in a Party uniform was a very stupid idea.
So, with the proclaimed best supporters of the Nazis, the far right and the Socialists, Hitlers "ideology" did not work.

So, did the Germans support him ? All and in every aspect ? I really doubt it.

regards
ze germanguy

What does nazi mean. Have you by chance read his book? Oh and by the way mr. German guy I lived in Germany for two years. I have talked with the older Germans who were alive when Hitler took control. I call you post BS

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I fear Bfgrn has been talked at a lot, and told what to think but I doubt he has done much serious reading on the subject. As evidenced by the above post.

i did mucho serious reading on the subject. bfgrn has it dead right, and you and fatboyrebel et al are seriously out of sync with reality and history.

I too have done some pretty serious reading and lived in Germany for two years and actually talked to a lot of the folks involved as well as a ton of combat soldiers, (I am a member of a couple of their kameradschafts) and the people absolutely DID support Hitler for almost the whole time he was in power.

The whole goal of the NAZI's was to develop a "volksgemeinschaft" (look it up, it will mean more to you that way). But they were successful in developing a "frontgemeinschaft" and that was why the Deutsche soldaten were able to accomplish so much with so little. One of my German friends was captured at Anzio and even after being captured was certain the Germans would win...till he got to North Africa and saw 7 miles of fuel containers.

As he told me "had we had that amount of supply there would have been no stopping us, we never had anything approaching that amount...amazing!"

edgar is a little moron who thinks he knows what he is talking about. I too have lived in Germany and have some of the same exprinces as you. I lived in the efile region in Spangdalhem. I went to Bastogne Belgum seeing the sights and had this elderly Gentlman looking at a sherman tank, with a hole in the rear with a memorial to General McAuliffe in the middle of town square. He had this very angry look on his face and state with German accent that shouldn't be here. I turned around and walked away. He looked to be about late 60's early 70's and that was back in 1983

 

[westwall]

i did mucho serious reading on the subject. bfgrn has it dead right, and you and fatboyrebel et al are seriously out of sync with reality and history.

I too have done some pretty serious reading and lived in Germany for two years and actually talked to a lot of the folks involved as well as a ton of combat soldiers, (I am a member of a couple of their kameradschafts) and the people absolutely DID support Hitler for almost the whole time he was in power.

The whole goal of the NAZI's was to develop a "volksgemeinschaft" (look it up, it will mean more to you that way). But they were successful in developing a "frontgemeinschaft" and that was why the Deutsche soldaten were able to accomplish so much with so little. One of my German friends was captured at Anzio and even after being captured was certain the Germans would win...till he got to North Africa and saw 7 miles of fuel containers.

As he told me "had we had that amount of supply there would have been no stopping us, we never had anything approaching that amount...amazing!"

edgar is a little moron who thinks he knows what he is talking about. I too have lived in Germany and have some of the same exprinces as you. I lived in the efile region in Spangdalhem. I went to Bastogne Belgum seeing the sights and had this elderly Gentlman looking at a sherman tank, with a hole in the rear with a memorial to General McAuliffe in the middle of town square. He had this very angry look on his face and state with German accent that shouldn't be here. I turned around and walked away. He looked to be about late 60's early 70's and that was back in 1983

Spangdahlem is near Trier isn't it? I lived in Bad Kissingen for the vast majority of my time there. Beautiful country.

 

[Bfgrn]

My God bigrebnc, why don't you READ what Hitler says, instead of continuing to make a total ass out of yourself. It is not someone's interpretation of Hitler's beliefs, it IS Hitler's beliefs.

He TELLS you that he didn't join because he embraced ANY of their beliefs...he calls their beliefs " their absurd philistinism" (absurd barbarism), he says the people in the room are "chiefly from the lower classes of the population'. He says they spewed "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases; hence also the title" (hence the title German Workers' Party)

He brags how he couldn't sit and listen to one of them talk about "peace...and more similar nonsense. At this point I could not help demanding the floor and giving the learned gentleman my opinion on this point-with the result that the previous speaker, even before I was finished, left the hall like a wet poodle."

He describes the reaction he got from the gathering: "As I spoke, the audience had listened with astonished faces, and only as I was beginning to say good night to the assemblage and go away did a man come leaping after me, introduce himself (I had not quite understood his name), and press a little booklet into my hand, apparently a political pamphlet, with the urgent request that I read it."

That "political pamphlet" leads us to YOUR first out of context misinterpretation. Hitler says "It was a little pamphlet in which the author, this same worker, described how he had returned to national thinking" (NATIONALISM)...NOT "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases".

Hitler TELLS you when he received a postcard saying he had been accepted in the German Workers' Party: "I didn't know whether to be angry or to laugh. I had no intention of joining a ready-made party, but wanted to found one of my own. What they asked of me was presumptuous and out of the question."

If you continue to READ on, you will see him go through a process of self rationalization: although he wanted to "found a party of his own", he would never be accepted by a major party because they would look down on him for his "lack of schooling". He rationalizes that he wouldn't really want to be accepted because they were the "'intelligentsia'...these 'educated' people the biggest empty-head, if he is wrapped in enough diplomas, is worth more than the brightest boy who happens to lick these costly envelopes. And so it was easy for me to imagine how this ' educated ' world would confront me"

SO, he confronts the reality of how to start his OWN party...he can't take over a major party of elites and he didn't have any people for his own party.

SO...Hitler decides the best way to HAVE his own party is to start it by enlisting these barbarians, the German Workers' Party. "Even then I had an instinctive revulsion toward men who start everything and never carry anything out These jacks-of-all-trades were loathsome to me. I regarded the activity of such people as worse than doing nothing."

What in the hell was hitler card number? Do you realize just how stupid you sound, hitler joined because he wanted to take over the workes socialist party? You don't join a group of people you don't like. That would be as me saying I am going to become a liberal democrat to take over the party.

I fear Bfgrn has been talked at a lot, and told what to think but I doubt he has done much serious reading on the subject. As evidenced by the above post.

TOLD what to think? WOW. I READ the chapter of Mein Kampf we are discussing and gave a synopsis. Hey westfall, do me a favor. Read the chapter from Mein Kampf we are discussing and give me YOUR synopsis.

I'll be waiting...

Mein Kampf: The 'German Workers' Party'

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I too have done some pretty serious reading and lived in Germany for two years and actually talked to a lot of the folks involved as well as a ton of combat soldiers, (I am a member of a couple of their kameradschafts) and the people absolutely DID support Hitler for almost the whole time he was in power.

The whole goal of the NAZI's was to develop a "volksgemeinschaft" (look it up, it will mean more to you that way). But they were successful in developing a "frontgemeinschaft" and that was why the Deutsche soldaten were able to accomplish so much with so little. One of my German friends was captured at Anzio and even after being captured was certain the Germans would win...till he got to North Africa and saw 7 miles of fuel containers.

As he told me "had we had that amount of supply there would have been no stopping us, we never had anything approaching that amount...amazing!"

edgar is a little moron who thinks he knows what he is talking about. I too have lived in Germany and have some of the same exprinces as you. I lived in the efile region in Spangdalhem. I went to Bastogne Belgum seeing the sights and had this elderly Gentlman looking at a sherman tank, with a hole in the rear with a memorial to General McAuliffe in the middle of town square. He had this very angry look on his face and state with German accent that shouldn't be here. I turned around and walked away. He looked to be about late 60's early 70's and that was back in 1983

Spangdahlem is near Trier isn't it? I lived in Bad Kissingen for the vast majority of my time there. Beautiful country.

Yes Spang is about 45 minutes north of Trier traveling on B-51

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What in the hell was hitler card number? Do you realize just how stupid you sound, hitler joined because he wanted to take over the workes socialist party? You don't join a group of people you don't like. That would be as me saying I am going to become a liberal democrat to take over the party.

I fear Bfgrn has been talked at a lot, and told what to think but I doubt he has done much serious reading on the subject. As evidenced by the above post.

TOLD what to think? WOW. I READ the chapter of Mein Kampf we are discussing and gave a synopsis. Hey westfall, do me a favor. Read the chapter from Mein Kampf we are discussing and give me YOUR synopsis.

I'll be waiting...

Mein Kampf: The 'German Workers' Party'

I'll clean up the last reply I made to you
What in the hell was Hitler’s card number? Do you realize just how stupid you sound, Hitler joined because he wanted to take over the worker's socialist party? You don't join a group of people you don't like. That would be like me saying I am going to become a liberal democrat to take over the party. My knowledge of the views of the German people towards Hitler did not come from any books it came from meeting some of the people that actually heard hitler speak in person.
So your opinion is to moronic for it to be plausible

 

[Bfgrn]

I fear Bfgrn has been talked at a lot, and told what to think but I doubt he has done much serious reading on the subject. As evidenced by the above post.

TOLD what to think? WOW. I READ the chapter of Mein Kampf we are discussing and gave a synopsis. Hey westfall, do me a favor. Read the chapter from Mein Kampf we are discussing and give me YOUR synopsis.

I'll be waiting...

Mein Kampf: The 'German Workers' Party'

I'll clean up the last reply I made to you
What in the hell was Hitler’s card number? Do you realize just how stupid you sound, Hitler joined because he wanted to take over the worker's socialist party? You don't join a group of people you don't like. That would be like me saying I am going to become a liberal democrat to take over the party. My knowledge of the views of the German people towards Hitler did not come from any books it came from meeting some of the people that actually heard hitler speak in person.
So your opinion is to moronic for it to be plausible

My view of Hitler and the German Workers' Party come from a guy named ADOLPH HITLER.

READ the fucking thing YOU posted!!! Give me YOUR synopsis...I will be waiting...

Mein Kampf: The 'German Workers' Party'


Hitler wasn't looking to join a glee club. He didn't CARE what they believed because he thought they were useful idiots. He believed that HIS views would become theirs.

Adolf Hitler, then a corporal in the German army, was ordered to spy on the DAP in September 12, 1919 during one of its meetings at the Sterneckerbräu, a beer hall in the center of the city.[3] While there, he got into a violent argument with one guest. Following this incident, Anton Drexler was impressed with Hitler's oratory skills and invited him to join the party. After some thinking, Hitler left the army and accepted the invitation, joining in late September. At the time when Hitler joined the party there were no membership numbers or cards. It was on January 1920 when a numeration was issued for the first time: listed in alphabetical order, Hitler received the number 555. In reality he had been the 55th member, but the counting started at the number 501 in order to make the party appear larger. Also, his claim that he was party member number 7, which would make him one of the founding members, is refuted. However, in his work Mein Kampf, Hitler states that he received a membership card with the number 7. After giving his first speech for the Party on October 16 in the Hofbräukeller,Hitler quickly rose up to become a leading figure in the DAP.
wiki

 

[bigrebnc1775]

TOLD what to think? WOW. I READ the chapter of Mein Kampf we are discussing and gave a synopsis. Hey westfall, do me a favor. Read the chapter from Mein Kampf we are discussing and give me YOUR synopsis.

I'll be waiting...

Mein Kampf: The 'German Workers' Party'

I'll clean up the last reply I made to you
What in the hell was Hitler’s card number? Do you realize just how stupid you sound, Hitler joined because he wanted to take over the worker's socialist party? You don't join a group of people you don't like. That would be like me saying I am going to become a liberal democrat to take over the party. My knowledge of the views of the German people towards Hitler did not come from any books it came from meeting some of the people that actually heard hitler speak in person.
So your opinion is to moronic for it to be plausible

My view of Hitler and the German Workers' Party come from a guy named ADOLPH HITLER.

READ the fucking thing YOU posted!!! Give me YOUR synopsis...I will be waiting...

Mein Kampf: The 'German Workers' Party'


Hitler wasn't looking to join a glee club. He didn't CARE what they believed because he thought they were useful idiots. He believed that HIS views would become theirs.

Adolf Hitler, then a corporal in the German army, was ordered to spy on the DAP in September 12, 1919 during one of its meetings at the Sterneckerbräu, a beer hall in the center of the city.[3] While there, he got into a violent argument with one guest. Following this incident, Anton Drexler was impressed with Hitler's oratory skills and invited him to join the party. After some thinking, Hitler left the army and accepted the invitation, joining in late September. At the time when Hitler joined the party there were no membership numbers or cards. It was on January 1920 when a numeration was issued for the first time: listed in alphabetical order, Hitler received the number 555. In reality he had been the 55th member, but the counting started at the number 501 in order to make the party appear larger. Also, his claim that he was party member number 7, which would make him one of the founding members, is refuted. However, in his work Mein Kampf, Hitler states that he received a membership card with the number 7. After giving his first speech for the Party on October 16 in the Hofbräukeller,Hitler quickly rose up to become a leading figure in the DAP.
wiki

What you posted is not in that chapter.
Its starts like this.

He goes to spy on the newly formed group.
ONE DAY I received orders from my headquarters to find out what was behind an apparently political organization which was planning to hold a meeting within th next few days under the name of 'German Workers' Party'-with Gottfried Feder as one of the speakers. I was told to go and take a look at the organization and then make a report.

Second paragraph
Brief description as to why the army wanted the group investigated.
Not until the moment when the Center and the Social Democracy were forced to recognize, to their own grief, that the sympathies of the soldiers were beginning to turn away from the revolutionary parties toward the national movement and reawakening, did they see fit to deprive the troops of suffrage again and prohibit their political activity.

Hitler stated in the beginning of the 3rd paragraph:
It was illuminating that the Center and the Marxists should have taken this measure,

In the middle of the chapter Hitler states
My impression was neither good nor bad; a new organization like so many others. This was a time in which anyone who was not satisfied with developments and no longer had any confidence in the existing parties felt called upon to found a new party. Everywhere these organizations sprang out of the ground, only to vanish silently after a time. The founders for the most part had no idea what it means to make a party-let alone a movement out of a club. And so these organizations nearly always stifle automatically in their absurd philistinism.


Hitler continues with the feeling that he is happy with what he heard

I judged the 'German Workers' Party' no differently. When Feder finally stopped talking, I was happy. I had seen enough and wanted to leave when the free discussion period, which was now announced, moved me to remain, after all. But here, too everything seemed to run along insignificantly until suddenly a 'professor' took the floor; he first questioned the soundness of Feder's arguments and then-after Feder replied very well- suddenly appealed to 'the facts,' but not without recommending most urgently that the young party take up the 'separation' of Bavaria from 'Prussia' as a particularly important programmatic point.

Hitler was defending Feder
With bold effrontery the man maintained that in this case German-Austria would at once join Bavaria, that the peace would then become much better, and more similar nonsense. At this point I could not help demanding the floor and giving the learned gentleman my opinion on this point-with the result that the previous speaker, even before I was finished, left the hall like a wet poodle.


No fight but was given a booklet to read
As I spoke, the audience had listened with astonished faces, and only as I was beginning to say good night to the assemblage and go away did a man come leaping after me, introduce himself (I had not quite understood his name), and press a little booklet into my hand, apparently a political pamphlet, with the urgent request that I read it.

Hitler found the pamlet to be agreeable even though he did not hold themn in a high regard at the time the man left a good impression on Hitler
This was very agreeable to me, for now I had reason to hope that I might become acquainted with this dull organization in a simpler way, without having to attend any more such interesting meetings. Incidentally this apparent worker had made a good impression on me. And with this I left the hall.

Hitler stated in this paragraph and does give his intent
Once I had begun, I read the little book through with interest; for it reflected a process similar to the one which I myself had gone through twelve years before. Involuntarily I saw my own development come to life before my eyes. In the course of the day I reflected a few times on the matter and was finally about to put it aside when, less than a week later, much to my surprise, I received a postcard saying that I had been accepted in the German Workers' Party; I was requested to express myself on the subject and for this purpose to attend a committee meeting of this party on the following Wednesday.

Hitler starts to question himself about joining the party
I was facing the hardest question of my life: should I join or should I decline?
Reason could advise me only to decline, but my feeling left me no rest, and as often as I tried to remember the absurdity of this whole club, my feeling argued for it.


Sounds like he is going to join the party
The longer I tried to think it over, the more the conviction grew in me that through just such a little movement the rise of the nation could some day be organized, but never through the political parliamentary parties which clung far too greatly to the old conceptions or even shared in the profits of the new regime. For it was a new philosophy and not a new election slogan that had to be proclaimed.
Truly a very grave decision-to begin transforming this intention into reality!
What prerequisites did I myself bring to this task?

In no way does this sound like the way you discribed it

After two days of agonized pondering and reflection, I finally came to the conviction that I had to take this step.
It was the most decisive resolve of my life. From here there was and could be no turning back.
And so I registered as a member of the German Workers' Party and received a provisional membership card with the number 7.
WHEN YOU CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING MORE CONVINCING I WILL BE WAITING

 

[L.K.Eder]

I fear Bfgrn has been talked at a lot, and told what to think but I doubt he has done much serious reading on the subject. As evidenced by the above post.

i did mucho serious reading on the subject. bfgrn has it dead right, and you and fatboyrebel et al are seriously out of sync with reality and history.

I too have done some pretty serious reading and lived in Germany for two years and actually talked to a lot of the folks involved as well as a ton of combat soldiers, (I am a member of a couple of their kameradschafts) and the people absolutely DID support Hitler for almost the whole time he was in power.

The whole goal of the NAZI's was to develop a "volksgemeinschaft" (look it up, it will mean more to you that way). But they were successful in developing a "frontgemeinschaft" and that was why the Deutsche soldaten were able to accomplish so much with so little. One of my German friends was captured at Anzio and even after being captured was certain the Germans would win...till he got to North Africa and saw 7 miles of fuel containers.

As he told me "had we had that amount of supply there would have been no stopping us, we never had anything approaching that amount...amazing!"

ah, so living in germany and talking to germans makes you an expert. lol.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

i did mucho serious reading on the subject. bfgrn has it dead right, and you and fatboyrebel et al are seriously out of sync with reality and history.

I too have done some pretty serious reading and lived in Germany for two years and actually talked to a lot of the folks involved as well as a ton of combat soldiers, (I am a member of a couple of their kameradschafts) and the people absolutely DID support Hitler for almost the whole time he was in power.

The whole goal of the NAZI's was to develop a "volksgemeinschaft" (look it up, it will mean more to you that way). But they were successful in developing a "frontgemeinschaft" and that was why the Deutsche soldaten were able to accomplish so much with so little. One of my German friends was captured at Anzio and even after being captured was certain the Germans would win...till he got to North Africa and saw 7 miles of fuel containers.

As he told me "had we had that amount of supply there would have been no stopping us, we never had anything approaching that amount...amazing!"

ah, so living in germany and talking to germans makes you an expert. lol.

More so then you.

 

[L.K.Eder]

I too have done some pretty serious reading and lived in Germany for two years and actually talked to a lot of the folks involved as well as a ton of combat soldiers, (I am a member of a couple of their kameradschafts) and the people absolutely DID support Hitler for almost the whole time he was in power.

The whole goal of the NAZI's was to develop a "volksgemeinschaft" (look it up, it will mean more to you that way). But they were successful in developing a "frontgemeinschaft" and that was why the Deutsche soldaten were able to accomplish so much with so little. One of my German friends was captured at Anzio and even after being captured was certain the Germans would win...till he got to North Africa and saw 7 miles of fuel containers.

As he told me "had we had that amount of supply there would have been no stopping us, we never had anything approaching that amount...amazing!"

ah, so living in germany and talking to germans makes you an expert. lol.

More so then you.

remember, i am on ignore, as you stated. you fool. and it is "than", expert at fail.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

ah, so living in germany and talking to germans makes you an expert. lol.

More so then you.

remember, i am on ignore, as you stated. you fool. and it is "than", expert at fail.

Yes you are on ignore but when I need a laugh I will click on the view post. And I don't give a shit what it is. I'll use any word that I damn well please.

 

[L.K.Eder]

More so then you.

remember, i am on ignore, as you stated. you fool. and it is "than", expert at fail.

Yes you are on ignore but when I need a laugh I will click on the view post. And I don't give a shit what it is. I'll use any word that I damn well please.

you do that, failrebel.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

remember, i am on ignore, as you stated. you fool. and it is "than", expert at fail.

Yes you are on ignore but when I need a laugh I will click on the view post. And I don't give a shit what it is. I'll use any word that I damn well please.

you do that, failrebel.

Thanks for the laugh. I'm doing a good job busting your chops. It's funny that someone you think is stuipd is busting your chops.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Yes you are on ignore but when I need a laugh I will click on the view post. And I don't give a shit what it is. I'll use any word that I damn well please.

you do that, failrebel.

Thanks for the laugh. I'm doing a good job busting your chops. It's funny that someone you think is stuipd is busting your chops.

yes, you are speshial.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

you do that, failrebel.

Thanks for the laugh. I'm doing a good job busting your chops. It's funny that someone you think is stuipd is busting your chops.

yes, you are speshial.

I think you mean special. Nevertheless, when you have had the chance to speak in person to people who were alive at the time you might get a better understanding of what westwall and I are talking about. Sure you can read a book but you are only getting the opinion of the authors.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Thanks for the laugh. I'm doing a good job busting your chops. It's funny that someone you think is stuipd is busting your chops.

yes, you are speshial.

I think you mean special. Nevertheless, when you have had the chance to speak in person to people who were alive at the time you might get a better understanding of what westwall and I are talking about. Sure you can read a book but you are only getting the opinion of the authors.

no, i meant speshial. as in retaaaaarded. and stoopit. now, when will you announce your next "i will ignore you" flailing, fatrebel?

PS. let's just say that if spending time in germany and talking with germans about hitler makes one an expert, then l o l. reading and comprehension ability is not optional, btw.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

yes, you are speshial.

I think you mean special. Nevertheless, when you have had the chance to speak in person to people who were alive at the time you might get a better understanding of what westwall and I are talking about. Sure you can read a book but you are only getting the opinion of the authors.

no, i meant speshial. as in retaaaaarded. and stoopit. now, when will you announce your next "i will ignore you" flailing, fatrebel?

PS. let's just say that if spending time in germany and talking with germans about hitler makes one an expert, then l o l. reading and comprehension ability is not optional, btw.

I said it made westwall more of an expert then you. It will with anyone. How do you think the experts became experts on a certain subject? By reading books, or talking with people who were alive during that time period? By reading books you are only getting the opinion of the author. By talking with People from that period of tim,e you are getting more then one opinion. You lose.

 

[L.K.Eder]

I think you mean special. Nevertheless, when you have had the chance to speak in person to people who were alive at the time you might get a better understanding of what westwall and I are talking about. Sure you can read a book but you are only getting the opinion of the authors.

no, i meant speshial. as in retaaaaarded. and stoopit. now, when will you announce your next "i will ignore you" flailing, fatrebel?

PS. let's just say that if spending time in germany and talking with germans about hitler makes one an expert, then l o l. reading and comprehension ability is not optional, btw.

I said it made westwall more of an expert then you. It will with anyone. How do you think the experts became experts on a certain subject? By reading books, or talking with people who were alive during that time period? By reading books you are only getting the opinion of the author. By talking with People from that period of tim,e you are getting more then one opinion. You lose.

i win by default. think about it.