Why did so many Germans support Hitler?

[bigrebnc1775]

So that's all you got out of the OP:
(Here's the original - just incase you missed it).

Why did so many Germans support Hitler?
I thought this might be a good topic of discussion

I was trying hard this time not to slam dunk your stupid ass again but I see you're just a glutton for punishment. You are the perfect example of a waisted education as evidenced by the fact that as a leftist hack you are no different from those on the right you so vehemently decry, i.e. no objective reasoning functions.

When you make your first attempt please let me know. A gnat like you is only a bother when they fly around your face. One quick swat and they're gone. What in the hell are you talking about? I asked a question if the responses are making America look like the beginning of 1929 Germany, there could very well be some similarities to both. It would be you who is being subjective; your protection of the "ONE" with any hint of a description of Nazi Germany is very reveling.

 

[strollingbones]

the us is not in a pre nazi state....one only has to look at history to determine that. the nazis had clear targets...the morally bankrupt...gays....the lesser of races...gypsies....and the jews were their major targets of oppression...show me one clear cut example of anyone being targetted like these groups were?

Many on here have no concept of history. that is a shame. history is much more than dates....its all kinds of movements ...social and economically intregrated into one timeline

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I thought this might be a good topic of discussion

this question is far broader than just hitler and the nazis

the real question is;

why are there SOOOO many stupid, ignorant people upon whom hate, lies and fear work so well!?

Consider the fact that lies and fear mongering work just as well on SMART people and there's your answer.

Plenty of smart people voted for Hitler just like plenty of smart people vote for Ds and Rs.

If you're fed a line of bullshit and you have no way of seeing that it's bullshit, that doesn't mean you're stupid.

That just makes you a dupe.

Who among us has NOT discovered that we'd been lied to and because we believed those lies, we acted upon them to our detriment?

Intelligent does NOT mean incapable of being fooled.

Very nice response

 

[strollingbones]

one has to remember the mass exodus that took place as people escaped pre nazi germany....artistians, scientist and common people fled.

Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[bigrebnc1775]

the us is not in a pre nazi state....one only has to look at history to determine that. the nazis had clear targets...the morally bankrupt...gays....the lesser of races...gypsies....and the jews were their major targets of oppression...show me one clear cut example of anyone being targetted like these groups were?

Many on here have no concept of history. that is a shame. history is much more than dates....its all kinds of movements ...social and economically intregrated into one timeline

Are you stating this as a fact or is it an opinion? I say it's an opinion because the facts remain. The left has attacked or labeled many who oppose obama as enemies of this country. And when Bush was president the same thing happened. It's just that obama agenda is going in the wrong direction. It's taking this country with the people into a government control of everything system. Less individual rights and more collectivism.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

one has to remember the mass exodus that took place as people escaped pre nazi germany....artistians, scientist and common people fled.

Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference is that real Americans don't run, we stand and fight

 

[bigrebnc1775]

NeoNational Socialists are lead by a Mulatto who espouses "White folks greed" and "Typical white behavior"

NeoNational Socialists have Eugenicists in the Ministry of Health and Healing (ObamaCare)

NeoNational Socialists have swallowed whole our Health care and financial industries and have Pay Czars to flatten out any outlying performers and make those sectors run like public schools.

Seig Heil, my little Fascist Friend, Seig Heil

Democrats Uber Alles

Well...you got half of it about right.

Now try putting down your partisan blinders and check what your favorite party has done to america in the last fifty years.

Some day you will, as I had to, wake up from your partisan delusions.

The more you study the issue from REAL sources, the more you'll understand that NOBODY is working on your behalf.

I put Dubya under Satan's ass in Dante's Inferno for betraying Conservatism.

I know the RNC is not my friend, and did you know I consider Bush41 one of the most evil, trecherous men who ever walked the face of the Earth?

Exactly the government does not care about what happens to the people.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

one has to remember the mass exodus that took place as people escaped pre nazi germany....artistians, scientist and common people fled.

Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference is that real Americans don't run, we stand and fight

These colors do not run

 

[strollingbones]

tell that to the vietnamese in sagion.....these colors dont run

it is my opinion that we are not in a 'prenazi' stage. please show me where anyone is being made a target by the government to be rounded up and held and murdered?

 

[Old Rocks]

Nationalism was present in German politics long before the Treaty of Versailles. Deutsche Vaterlandspartei. They were the pro-war party and after the German Revolution of 1918 when they were disbanded did many members form the NDSAP.

What the Nazi's did was provide a scapegoat to blame all of Germany's ill fate on. The Jews and Capitalism....THAT'S WHY they got the support they got.....they took the blame game to a whole new level.

and much like todays Democrat party...we hear the same thing.....except this time instead of the jews and capitalism it's the whites and capitalism.
The parallels are striking if one looks at the whole picture....and one has to think what the fuck is Soro's thinking and what he stands to gain from all this.

Look, you want to portray the President and the Dems as Nazis? Who invaded a small nation on the basis of lies? Where is the WMD?

The fomenting of discord that so many of you Conservatives have been doing of late, is much more reminiscent of Germany in the '30s, than anything that the Dems are doing. And has nothing at all to do with conservative values. In fact, is quite contrary to the values of such men as T. Roosevelt and Eisenhower.

 

[Old Rocks]

the us is not in a pre nazi state....one only has to look at history to determine that. the nazis had clear targets...the morally bankrupt...gays....the lesser of races...gypsies....and the jews were their major targets of oppression...show me one clear cut example of anyone being targetted like these groups were?

Many on here have no concept of history. that is a shame. history is much more than dates....its all kinds of movements ...social and economically intregrated into one timeline

Are you stating this as a fact or is it an opinion? I say it's an opinion because the facts remain. The left has attacked or labeled many who oppose obama as enemies of this country. And when Bush was president the same thing happened. It's just that obama agenda is going in the wrong direction. It's taking this country with the people into a government control of everything system. Less individual rights and more collectivism.

Damn! Look at the posts on this board. Where has anyone on liberal side talked of "eliminating" the people on the right? Yet we have seen many on the right use exactly that word to define their intentions concerning liberals and anyone else they disagree with at the moment.

I intend to work to get people that represent my point of view elected to office in local and national elections. Even though I am a gun owner, I do not feel the need to threaton those of a differant opinion with that fact, as so many on the right on this board do.

When you fellows start speaking and posting in a civil manner, without overt and covert threats, then I will respect your opinions.

 

[Madeline]

Anyone else see the movie "Judgment at Nuremburg"? The plot concerns the trial of several judges who are charged with war crimes, and the premise of the movie is that German people outside the camps and the SS knew about the Final Solution.

Germany did not just "focus" on certain ethnic groups; it went insane.

Once in power Adolf Hitler began to openly express anti-Semitic ideas. Based on his readings of how blacks were denied civil rights in the southern states in America, Hitler attempted to make life so unpleasant for Jews in Germany that they would emigrate. The campaign started on 1st April, 1933, when a one-day boycott of Jewish-owned shops took place. Members of the Sturm Abteilung (SA) picketed the shops to ensure the boycott was successful.

The hostility of towards Jews increased in Germany. This was reflected in the decision by many shops and restaurants not to serve the Jewish population. Placards saying "Jews not admitted" and "Jews enter this place at their own risk" began to appear all over Germany. In some parts of the country Jews were banned from public parks, swimming-pools and public transport.

Germans were also encouraged not to use Jewish doctors and lawyers. Jewish civil servants, teachers and those employed by the mass media were sacked. Members of the SA put pressure on people not to buy goods produced by Jewish companies. For example, the Ullstein Press, the largest publisher of newspapers, books and magazines in Germany, was forced to sell the company to the NSDAP in 1934 after the actions of the SA had made it impossible for them to make a profit.

Many Jewish people who could no longer earn a living left the country. The number of Jews emigrating increased after the passing of the Nuremberg Laws on Citizenship and Race in 1935. Under this new law Jews could no longer be citizens of Germany. It was also made illegal for Jews to marry Aryans.

The pressure on Jews to leave Germany intensified. Hitler, Joseph Goebbels and Reinhard Heydrich organized a new programme designed to encourage Jews to emigrate. Crystal Night took place on 9th-10th November, 1938. Presented as a spontaneous reaction of the German people to the news that the German diplomat, Ernst vom Rath, had been murdered by Herschel Grynszpan, a young Jewish refugee in Paris, the whole event was in fact organized by the NSDAP.

During Crystal Night over 7,500 Jewish shops were destroyed and 400 synagogues were burnt down. Ninety-one Jews were killed and an estimated 20,000 were sent to concentration camps. Up until this time these camps had been mainly for political prisoners. The only people who were punished for the crimes committed on Crystal Night were members of the Sturm Abteilung (SA) who had raped Jewish women (they had broken the Nuremberg Laws on sexual intercourse between Aryans and Jews).

After Crystal Night the numbers of Jews wishing to leave Germany increased dramatically. It has been calculated that between 1933 and 1939, approximately half the Jewish population of Germany (250,000) left the country. This included several Jewish scientists who were to play an important role in the fight against fascism during the war. A higher number of Jews would have left but anti-Semitism was not restricted to Germany and many countries were reluctant to take them.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERcrystal.htm

The movie concludes that yes, the average German was aware of the Final Solution and all Germans are partially responsible for it. When peering at any one individual, it is tempting to conclude that mebbe they did not know or felt powerless to resist. Personally, I think it was very widely known. How could it have been otherwise? There were six million corpses.

 

[Bfgrn]

I know it is conventional historical wisdom the Treaty of Versailles helped cause the rise of Hitler and though he did use resentment about the treaty to his advantage, I posit the treaty did not cause the rise of fascism because it was never actually enforced.

The UK in particular kept changing the terms over the objections of France to appease both Weimar politicians and latter Hitler.

The proscribed penalties for violations where rarely implemented.

The fact is German politicians of almost very party propagated the myth that Germany was not really defeated in WWI but was betrayed and the treaty thus was unfair.

Germany was not occupied and this re-enforced the myth, and German Weimar politicians, wanting to re-arm (this process started before Hitler) inflated their currency to pay back war debt thus hurting the middle class, but the victorious powers kept changing the terms in Germany’s favor.

If anything I think the Treaty of Versailles was too lenient. Germany did not know or feel she was a defeated.

Look at the difference between the aftermath of WWI and WWII, after WWII Germany is occupied, partitioned, her war leaders put on trial and her new government validated and dictated to by the victorious allies, and Germany never threatens European peace again.

The problem with Versailles is it caused resentment but did not punish seriously or contain a defeated enemy.

Well, now that you've dried out, we get to see the real you...a Bushie or maybe more of a Cheney...

History's neither one dimensional, nor can it be neatly defined by facts and historical events alone. History is the continuing saga of human existence and human conditions. Those human conditions, good or bad serve to fuel benign or aggressive behaviors. Actual outcomes of events, treaties and policies are determined as much by human perception as they are by fact. The Treaty of Versailles was perceived as very punitive in the eyes of the German people who anticipated Wilson's 14 Points, which was perceived as fair, a way to rebuild their economy, their country, re-enter the world community and retain some dignity. Instead they received Clemenceau's punitive ruler across the knuckles; total blame for the war, and with that total blame; reparations that would have taken until the late 20th century to repay. Add territorial clauses that would later become a rallying cry all combined to create animosity in Germany towards their 'enemies' and toward their own government that signed it.

If we are really going to get into that period of history and try to correlate events and consequences, there are MANY. Post WWI Germany saw a period of political instability. There were many factions vying for power. There was even a 'Red scare' not unlike right wing fear-mongering during our own Cold war. You seem to insinuate there was some pre-Hitler mental inevitability with your comment that Weimar politicians wanting to re-arm. It WAS the Treaty of Versailles that created the pre-Hitler mental inevitability. And it will remain in the annals of history as a leading cause that led to the rise of Hitler and ultimately WWII.

The main difference between the aftermath of WWI and WWII, the Treaty of Versailles was punitive and destructive. The Marshall Plan was not punitive, it was constructive...

These lessons will NEVER be learned by the right wing mind. They will continue to FEEL that punishment is the only way, and when it ultimately fails, it was only because the punishment was not severe enough. And they will continue to blindly follow authoritarian despots like Bush and Cheney that turned a gang of terrorists into an army of thousands.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

 

[bigrebnc1775]

the us is not in a pre nazi state....one only has to look at history to determine that. the nazis had clear targets...the morally bankrupt...gays....the lesser of races...gypsies....and the jews were their major targets of oppression...show me one clear cut example of anyone being targetted like these groups were?

Many on here have no concept of history. that is a shame. history is much more than dates....its all kinds of movements ...social and economically intregrated into one timeline

Are you stating this as a fact or is it an opinion? I say it's an opinion because the facts remain. The left has attacked or labeled many who oppose obama as enemies of this country. And when Bush was president the same thing happened. It's just that obama agenda is going in the wrong direction. It's taking this country with the people into a government control of everything system. Less individual rights and more collectivism.

Damn! Look at the posts on this board. Where has anyone on liberal side talked of "eliminating" the people on the right? Yet we have seen many on the right use exactly that word to define their intentions concerning liberals and anyone else they disagree with at the moment.

I intend to work to get people that represent my point of view elected to office in local and national elections. Even though I am a gun owner, I do not feel the need to threaton those of a differant opinion with that fact, as so many on the right on this board do.

When you fellows start speaking and posting in a civil manner, without overt and covert threats, then I will respect your opinions.

I have no control nor do I want the contol of what someone post. So tell me since you posted this comment to my last replky where have I threaten anyone woith a DIFFERANT VIEW FROM MINE?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Nationalism was present in German politics long before the Treaty of Versailles. Deutsche Vaterlandspartei. They were the pro-war party and after the German Revolution of 1918 when they were disbanded did many members form the NDSAP.

What the Nazi's did was provide a scapegoat to blame all of Germany's ill fate on. The Jews and Capitalism....THAT'S WHY they got the support they got.....they took the blame game to a whole new level.

and much like todays Democrat party...we hear the same thing.....except this time instead of the jews and capitalism it's the whites and capitalism.
The parallels are striking if one looks at the whole picture....and one has to think what the fuck is Soro's thinking and what he stands to gain from all this.

Look, you want to portray the President and the Dems as Nazis? Who invaded a small nation on the basis of lies? Where is the WMD?

The fomenting of discord that so many of you Conservatives have been doing of late, is much more reminiscent of Germany in the '30s, than anything that the Dems are doing. And has nothing at all to do with conservative values. In fact, is quite contrary to the values of such men as T. Roosevelt and Eisenhower.

Those lies as you call them were also pushed as fact by Clinton.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I know it is conventional historical wisdom the Treaty of Versailles helped cause the rise of Hitler and though he did use resentment about the treaty to his advantage, I posit the treaty did not cause the rise of fascism because it was never actually enforced.

The UK in particular kept changing the terms over the objections of France to appease both Weimar politicians and latter Hitler.

The proscribed penalties for violations where rarely implemented.

The fact is German politicians of almost very party propagated the myth that Germany was not really defeated in WWI but was betrayed and the treaty thus was unfair.

Germany was not occupied and this re-enforced the myth, and German Weimar politicians, wanting to re-arm (this process started before Hitler) inflated their currency to pay back war debt thus hurting the middle class, but the victorious powers kept changing the terms in Germany’s favor.

If anything I think the Treaty of Versailles was too lenient. Germany did not know or feel she was a defeated.

Look at the difference between the aftermath of WWI and WWII, after WWII Germany is occupied, partitioned, her war leaders put on trial and her new government validated and dictated to by the victorious allies, and Germany never threatens European peace again.

The problem with Versailles is it caused resentment but did not punish seriously or contain a defeated enemy.

Well, now that you've dried out, we get to see the real you...a Bushie or maybe more of a Cheney...

History's neither one dimensional, nor can it be neatly defined by facts and historical events alone. History is the continuing saga of human existence and human conditions. Those human conditions, good or bad serve to fuel benign or aggressive behaviors. Actual outcomes of events, treaties and policies are determined as much by human perception as they are by fact. The Treaty of Versailles was perceived as very punitive in the eyes of the German people who anticipated Wilson's 14 Points, which was perceived as fair, a way to rebuild their economy, their country, re-enter the world community and retain some dignity. Instead they received Clemenceau's punitive ruler across the knuckles; total blame for the war, and with that total blame; reparations that would have taken until the late 20th century to repay. Add territorial clauses that would later become a rallying cry all combined to create animosity in Germany towards their 'enemies' and toward their own government that signed it.

If we are really going to get into that period of history and try to correlate events and consequences, there are MANY. Post WWI Germany saw a period of political instability. There were many factions vying for power. There was even a 'Red scare' not unlike right wing fear-mongering during our own Cold war. You seem to insinuate there was some pre-Hitler mental inevitability with your comment that Weimar politicians wanting to re-arm. It WAS the Treaty of Versailles that created the pre-Hitler mental inevitability. And it will remain in the annals of history as a leading cause that led to the rise of Hitler and ultimately WWII.

The main difference between the aftermath of WWI and WWII, the Treaty of Versailles was punitive and destructive. The Marshall Plan was not punitive, it was constructive...

These lessons will NEVER be learned by the right wing mind. They will continue to FEEL that punishment is the only way, and when it ultimately fails, it was only because the punishment was not severe enough. And they will continue to blindly follow authoritarian despots like Bush and Cheney that turned a gang of terrorists into an army of thousands.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

My revised version
When the department of homeland security came for the Iraqi war vet,
I remained silent;
I was not an Iraqi war vet.

When they caame for the Tea party member
I remained silent
Because I was not a member of the TEA party

When they came for the gun owners
I remained silent
Because I owned no guns

Then they came for me
And there was no one to speak for me.

 

[Madeline]

If post WW I Germany had been divided as it was after WW II, it is unlikely that the Final Solution would have occured.

 

[Bfgrn]

Just as I thought attack the person (me) and you're not the first moron to call me right wing, or wing nut, or libtard or obamabot, etc ad nauseum.... The point i was making, if you had the ability of discernment, was his premise is to narrow in a complex study. He omits complete segments of causative factors in a vain attempt to condense the reasons behind the rise of Hitler, et al. and does so without reaching into the mind of the peoples of the time.
Yes, the Treaty of Versailles was the primary reason for the rise of a Hitleresque figure but it wasn't the only cause of Hitler's rise to power. It was, by his manipulations only one of the reasons the German people came to love or admire him early on but there where other reasons the primary being he wiped out unemployment and most Germans enjoyed the highest standards of living in the world and more importantly he brought social stability to a peoples who yearned for order. I don't dispute the influences of any of those listed by you as long as said influence is placed in it's proper perspective. Look at the bigger picture not just that which fits your chosen paradigm.

Why don't you try this next time if you have the ability of discernment. READ the original piece. Gleason was not trying to provide a comprehensive history of the rise of fascism. His premise is narrow...Mutatis mutandis. He was comparing the political environment and attitudes that led to the rise of fascism with the political environment and attitudes created by the Bush administration after 9/11. I used the piece because it concisely and totally smashes the right wing pea brain bizzaro world of morons like Jonah Goldberg.

"O con noi o contro di noi"--You're either with us or against us.
Benito Mussolini

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
George W. Bush

So that's all you got out of the OP:
(Here's the original - just incase you missed it).

Why did so many Germans support Hitler?
I thought this might be a good topic of discussion

I was trying hard this time not to slam dunk your stupid ass again but I see you're just a glutton for punishment. You are the perfect example of a waisted education as evidenced by the fact that as a leftist hack you are no different from those on the right you so vehemently decry, i.e. no objective reasoning functions.

Are you having a tough time keeping up Bugs? I'm well aware of the original OP. I was not responding directly TO the OP, I was responding TO Mad Scientist's response to the subject and addressed the genesis of his/her ignorance...that Hitler was a socialist/leftist. And BTW, Mad Scientist's claim that Hitler was elected is also false.
post56.html

 

[bigrebnc1775]

For those who claim Hitler wasn't a socialist. The best way to find out is read Mein Kampf
At about five o'clock in the morning after this meeting, I thus lay awake in my cot, watching the chase and bustle. Since I could no longer fall asleep, I suddenly remembered the past evening and my mind fell on the booklet which the worker had given me. I began to read. It was a little pamphlet in which the author, this same worker, described how he had returned to national thinking out of the Babel of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases; hence also the title: My Political Awakening.l Once I had begun, I read the little book through with interest; for it reflected a process similar to the one which I myself had gone through twelve years before. Involuntarily I saw my own development come to life before my eyes. In the course of the day I reflected a few times on the matter and was finally about to put it aside when, less than a week later, much to my surprise, I received a postcard saying that I had been accepted in the German Workers' Party; I was requested to express myself on the subject and for this purpose to attend a committee meeting of this party on the following Wednesday............
......After two days of agonized pondering and reflection, I finally came to the conviction that I had to take this step.
It was the most decisive resolve of my life. From here there was and could be no turning back.
And so I registered as a member of the German Workers' Party and received a provisional membership card with the number 7.
Mein Kampf: The 'German Workers' Party'

Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler

 

[bigrebnc1775]

For those who claim Hitler wasn't a socialist. The best way to find out is read Mein Kampf
At about five o'clock in the morning after this meeting, I thus lay awake in my cot, watching the chase and bustle. Since I could no longer fall asleep, I suddenly remembered the past evening and my mind fell on the booklet which the worker had given me. I began to read. It was a little pamphlet in which the author, this same worker, described how he had returned to national thinking out of the Babel of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases; hence also the title: My Political Awakening.l Once I had begun, I read the little book through with interest; for it reflected a process similar to the one which I myself had gone through twelve years before. Involuntarily I saw my own development come to life before my eyes. In the course of the day I reflected a few times on the matter and was finally about to put it aside when, less than a week later, much to my surprise, I received a postcard saying that I had been accepted in the German Workers' Party; I was requested to express myself on the subject and for this purpose to attend a committee meeting of this party on the following Wednesday............
......After two days of agonized pondering and reflection, I finally came to the conviction that I had to take this step.
It was the most decisive resolve of my life. From here there was and could be no turning back.
And so I registered as a member of the German Workers' Party and received a provisional membership card with the number 7.
Mein Kampf: The 'German Workers' Party'

Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler

Volume Two - The National Socialist Movement
Chapter I: Philosophy and Party
For these people change their convictions just as the soldier changes his shirt in war – when the old one is bug-eaten. In the new programme everyone gets everything he wants. The farmer is assured that the interests of agriculture will be safeguarded. The industrialist is assured of protection for his products. The consumer is assured that his interests will be protected in the market prices. Teachers are given higher salaries and civil servants will have better pensions. Widows and orphans will receive generous assistance from the State. Trade will be promoted. The tariff will be lowered and even the taxes, though they cannot be entirely abolished, will be almost abolished. It sometimes happens that one section of the public is forgotten or that one of the demands mooted among the public has not reached the ears of the party. This is also hurriedly patched on to the whole, should there be any space available for it: until finally it is felt that there are good grounds for hoping that the whole normal host of philistines, including their wives, will have their anxieties laid to rest and will beam with satisfaction once again. And so, internally armed with faith in the goodness of God and the impenetrable stupidity of the electorate, the struggle for what is called 'the reconstruction of the Reich' can now begin.
Mein Kampf - Volume II, Chapter I