Why are we ignoring simple, painless debt solution?

[Google]

The media has reminded the American people several times throughout this debt limit debate that the national debt currently stands at $14 trillion, of which conservatively $1 trillion is held by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve obtained that debt through its complicated quantitative easing programs (Quantitative easing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) –more specifically QE2-- but it is debt that the government essentially owes itself.

Why?

“The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.” (Debt Ceiling: Could Ron Paul's Plan Save Us From Disaster, twice? - The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com)

Neither Republican, Democrat nor the media, despite all telling Americans that Armageddon will occur if something isn’t done, have brought up the fact that Congress could simply tell the Federal Reserve to dissolve the Treasury Bills it currently holds, effectively reducing the national debt by $1 trillion.

Unlike all other proposals this one doesn’t endanger anyone’s retirement or pension because it is money that was literally fabricated from thin air.

I believe we can all agree, from right to left, that this debt is in fact phony debt. Even the progressive/leftist ‘The New Republic’ (Ron Paul) agrees that this is a painless solution that would reduce the debt by $1 trillion and would give Congress needed time to address this issue.

Of course this isn’t my idea—I wish I were so clever—it is the proposal that Congressman Ron Paul has been pushing since the beginning of this whole debt ceiling debate.

 

[Charles_Main]

The media has reminded the American people several times throughout this debt limit debate that the national debt currently stands at $14 trillion, of which conservatively $1 trillion is held by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve obtained that debt through its complicated quantitative easing programs (Quantitative easing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) –more specifically QE2-- but it is debt that the government essentially owes itself.

Why?

“The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.” (Debt Ceiling: Could Ron Paul's Plan Save Us From Disaster, twice? - The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com)

Neither Republican, Democrat nor the media, despite all telling Americans that Armageddon will occur if something isn’t done, have brought up the fact that Congress could simply tell the Federal Reserve to dissolve the Treasury Bills it currently holds, effectively reducing the national debt by $1 trillion.

Unlike all other proposals this one doesn’t endanger anyone’s retirement or pension because it is money that was literally fabricated from thin air.

I believe we can all agree, from right to left, that this debt is in fact phony debt. Even the progressive/leftist ‘The New Republic’ (Ron Paul) agrees that this is a painless solution that would reduce the debt by $1 trillion and would give Congress needed time to address this issue.

Of course this isn’t my idea—I wish I were so clever—it is the proposal that Congressman Ron Paul has been pushing since the beginning of this whole debt ceiling debate.

What you are implying would have a very Negative effect on the value of our Currency. QE2 Was simply Printing money out of thin air. What you are suggesting is we do not back up that printing. Which could only drive the Value of the Dollar down even further.

I would also point out that you seem to lack a basic understanding of how it works. You Implied that the Government essentially owes it to it's self. The Truth is the Federal Reserve is independent. Not Honoring 1 Trillion in Debt to the Fed would come with all the same negative Credit Issues not honoring any other debt would, with the added Bonus of Devaluing our money some More.

If this so called simple, Painless Solution were Viable, Obama and the Dems would most certainly be pushing for it.

 

[Google]

The media has reminded the American people several times throughout this debt limit debate that the national debt currently stands at $14 trillion, of which conservatively $1 trillion is held by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve obtained that debt through its complicated quantitative easing programs (Quantitative easing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) –more specifically QE2-- but it is debt that the government essentially owes itself.

Why?

“The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.” (Debt Ceiling: Could Ron Paul's Plan Save Us From Disaster, twice? - The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com)

Neither Republican, Democrat nor the media, despite all telling Americans that Armageddon will occur if something isn’t done, have brought up the fact that Congress could simply tell the Federal Reserve to dissolve the Treasury Bills it currently holds, effectively reducing the national debt by $1 trillion.

Unlike all other proposals this one doesn’t endanger anyone’s retirement or pension because it is money that was literally fabricated from thin air.

I believe we can all agree, from right to left, that this debt is in fact phony debt. Even the progressive/leftist ‘The New Republic’ (Ron Paul) agrees that this is a painless solution that would reduce the debt by $1 trillion and would give Congress needed time to address this issue.

Of course this isn’t my idea—I wish I were so clever—it is the proposal that Congressman Ron Paul has been pushing since the beginning of this whole debt ceiling debate.

What you are implying would have a very Negative effect on the value of our Currency. QE2 Was simply Printing money out of thin air. What you are suggesting is we do not back up that printing. Which could only drive the Value of the Dollar down even further.

I would also point out that you seem to lack a basic understanding of how it works. You Implied that the Government essentially owes it to it's self. The Truth is the Federal Reserve is independent. Not Honoring 1 Trillion in Debt to the Fed would come with all the same negative Credit Issues not honoring any other debt would, with the added Bonus of Devaluing our money some More.

If this so called simple, Painless Solution were Viable, Obama and the Dems would most certainly be pushing for it.

No, I understand very well that the Federal Reserve is an independent agency.

I'm not implying that dissolving that artificial debt wouldn't have any negative impact I'm stating it pretty clearly. The negative impact and devaluing of the dollar came from the actual QE program, it's called inflation.

"Paul's plan starts with the Federal Reserve. In the last year or two the Fed has been buying up U.S. Treasury bonds in an effort to lower interest rates and boost the economy. The most recent round of that buying has been dubbed QE2, and has come under a good deal of criticism, though most economists agree that it was a generally helpful policy. The result is that the Fed now holds nearly $1.7 trillion in U.S. debt. But that is really phony debt. The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.

"Paul's plan: Get the Fed and the Treasury to rip up that debt. It's fake debt anyway. And the Fed is legally allowed to return the debt to the Treasury to be destroyed. A trillion and a half dollars is currently about what spending is expected to exceed tax revenue in 2011."

 

[Charles_Main]

The media has reminded the American people several times throughout this debt limit debate that the national debt currently stands at $14 trillion, of which conservatively $1 trillion is held by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve obtained that debt through its complicated quantitative easing programs (Quantitative easing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) –more specifically QE2-- but it is debt that the government essentially owes itself.

Why?

“The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.” (Debt Ceiling: Could Ron Paul's Plan Save Us From Disaster, twice? - The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com)

Neither Republican, Democrat nor the media, despite all telling Americans that Armageddon will occur if something isn’t done, have brought up the fact that Congress could simply tell the Federal Reserve to dissolve the Treasury Bills it currently holds, effectively reducing the national debt by $1 trillion.

Unlike all other proposals this one doesn’t endanger anyone’s retirement or pension because it is money that was literally fabricated from thin air.

I believe we can all agree, from right to left, that this debt is in fact phony debt. Even the progressive/leftist ‘The New Republic’ (Ron Paul) agrees that this is a painless solution that would reduce the debt by $1 trillion and would give Congress needed time to address this issue.

Of course this isn’t my idea—I wish I were so clever—it is the proposal that Congressman Ron Paul has been pushing since the beginning of this whole debt ceiling debate.

What you are implying would have a very Negative effect on the value of our Currency. QE2 Was simply Printing money out of thin air. What you are suggesting is we do not back up that printing. Which could only drive the Value of the Dollar down even further.

I would also point out that you seem to lack a basic understanding of how it works. You Implied that the Government essentially owes it to it's self. The Truth is the Federal Reserve is independent. Not Honoring 1 Trillion in Debt to the Fed would come with all the same negative Credit Issues not honoring any other debt would, with the added Bonus of Devaluing our money some More.

If this so called simple, Painless Solution were Viable, Obama and the Dems would most certainly be pushing for it.

No, I understand very well that the Federal Reserve is an independent agency.

I'm not implying that dissolving that artificial debt wouldn't have any negative impact I'm stating it pretty clearly. The negative impact and devaluing of the dollar came from the actual QE program, it's called inflation.

"Paul's plan starts with the Federal Reserve. In the last year or two the Fed has been buying up U.S. Treasury bonds in an effort to lower interest rates and boost the economy. The most recent round of that buying has been dubbed QE2, and has come under a good deal of criticism, though most economists agree that it was a generally helpful policy. The result is that the Fed now holds nearly $1.7 trillion in U.S. debt. But that is really phony debt. The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.

"Paul's plan: Get the Fed and the Treasury to rip up that debt. It's fake debt anyway. And the Fed is legally allowed to return the debt to the Treasury to be destroyed. A trillion and a half dollars is currently about what spending is expected to exceed tax revenue in 2011."

Yes, and that inflation and further devaluing of the Dollar would be made worse if the Government dissolved the Debt it owes the Fed. Basically they printed money out of thin air on the promise that the Gov owed 1 Trillion to the Fed. So what we would be doing is saying, ah never mind. We just going to admit that what we did was invent phony Money out of thin air. Not backing it up means all the money out there is devalued as the total value is spread out over the additional 1 plus Trillion in Printed and not backed up Money.

So Basically we would be deliberately hurting our Economy more for what? To buy some time and not have this debate until next year?

I for one believe we need to have this Debate now, not later.

 

[8537]

I'm sure the member-owner banks of the Fed would be thrilled!

 

[Stashman]

The media has reminded the American people several times throughout this debt limit debate that the national debt currently stands at $14 trillion, of which conservatively $1 trillion is held by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve obtained that debt through its complicated quantitative easing programs (Quantitative easing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) –more specifically QE2-- but it is debt that the government essentially owes itself.

Why?

“The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.” (Debt Ceiling: Could Ron Paul's Plan Save Us From Disaster, twice? - The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com)

Neither Republican, Democrat nor the media, despite all telling Americans that Armageddon will occur if something isn’t done, have brought up the fact that Congress could simply tell the Federal Reserve to dissolve the Treasury Bills it currently holds, effectively reducing the national debt by $1 trillion.

Unlike all other proposals this one doesn’t endanger anyone’s retirement or pension because it is money that was literally fabricated from thin air.

I believe we can all agree, from right to left, that this debt is in fact phony debt. Even the progressive/leftist ‘The New Republic’ (Ron Paul) agrees that this is a painless solution that would reduce the debt by $1 trillion and would give Congress needed time to address this issue.

Of course this isn’t my idea—I wish I were so clever—it is the proposal that Congressman Ron Paul has been pushing since the beginning of this whole debt ceiling debate.

What you are implying would have a very Negative effect on the value of our Currency. QE2 Was simply Printing money out of thin air. What you are suggesting is we do not back up that printing. Which could only drive the Value of the Dollar down even further.

I would also point out that you seem to lack a basic understanding of how it works. You Implied that the Government essentially owes it to it's self. The Truth is the Federal Reserve is independent. Not Honoring 1 Trillion in Debt to the Fed would come with all the same negative Credit Issues not honoring any other debt would, with the added Bonus of Devaluing our money some More.

If this so called simple, Painless Solution were Viable, Obama and the Dems would most certainly be pushing for it.

Better yet just end the FED. Why do we need them?

 

[Google]

What you are implying would have a very Negative effect on the value of our Currency. QE2 Was simply Printing money out of thin air. What you are suggesting is we do not back up that printing. Which could only drive the Value of the Dollar down even further.

I would also point out that you seem to lack a basic understanding of how it works. You Implied that the Government essentially owes it to it's self. The Truth is the Federal Reserve is independent. Not Honoring 1 Trillion in Debt to the Fed would come with all the same negative Credit Issues not honoring any other debt would, with the added Bonus of Devaluing our money some More.

If this so called simple, Painless Solution were Viable, Obama and the Dems would most certainly be pushing for it.

No, I understand very well that the Federal Reserve is an independent agency.

I'm not implying that dissolving that artificial debt wouldn't have any negative impact I'm stating it pretty clearly. The negative impact and devaluing of the dollar came from the actual QE program, it's called inflation.

"Paul's plan starts with the Federal Reserve. In the last year or two the Fed has been buying up U.S. Treasury bonds in an effort to lower interest rates and boost the economy. The most recent round of that buying has been dubbed QE2, and has come under a good deal of criticism, though most economists agree that it was a generally helpful policy. The result is that the Fed now holds nearly $1.7 trillion in U.S. debt. But that is really phony debt. The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.

"Paul's plan: Get the Fed and the Treasury to rip up that debt. It's fake debt anyway. And the Fed is legally allowed to return the debt to the Treasury to be destroyed. A trillion and a half dollars is currently about what spending is expected to exceed tax revenue in 2011."

Yes, and that inflation and further devaluing of the Dollar would be made worse if the Government dissolved the Debt it owes the Fed. Basically they printed money out of thin air on the promise that the Gov owed 1 Trillion to the Fed. So what we would be doing is saying, ah never mind. We just going to admit that what we did was invent phony Money out of thin air. Not backing it up means all the money out there is devalued as the total value is spread out over the additional 1 plus Trillion in Printed and not backed up Money.

So Basically we would be deliberately hurting our Economy more for what? To buy some time and not have this debate until next year?

I for one believe we need to have this Debate now, not later.

How?

The Treasury pays that interest on that debt and the Fed returns 90% back. You fail to grasp that it simply doesn't exist.

How would this devalue the dollar? All of a sudden the national debt is $1 trillion lower and that is supposed to spook foreign investors?

Where were you telling everyone the economic dangers of the QE2 program, which had a much more detrimental effect than this would have.

 

[Charles_Main]

No, I understand very well that the Federal Reserve is an independent agency.

I'm not implying that dissolving that artificial debt wouldn't have any negative impact I'm stating it pretty clearly. The negative impact and devaluing of the dollar came from the actual QE program, it's called inflation.

"Paul's plan starts with the Federal Reserve. In the last year or two the Fed has been buying up U.S. Treasury bonds in an effort to lower interest rates and boost the economy. The most recent round of that buying has been dubbed QE2, and has come under a good deal of criticism, though most economists agree that it was a generally helpful policy. The result is that the Fed now holds nearly $1.7 trillion in U.S. debt. But that is really phony debt. The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.

"Paul's plan: Get the Fed and the Treasury to rip up that debt. It's fake debt anyway. And the Fed is legally allowed to return the debt to the Treasury to be destroyed. A trillion and a half dollars is currently about what spending is expected to exceed tax revenue in 2011."

Yes, and that inflation and further devaluing of the Dollar would be made worse if the Government dissolved the Debt it owes the Fed. Basically they printed money out of thin air on the promise that the Gov owed 1 Trillion to the Fed. So what we would be doing is saying, ah never mind. We just going to admit that what we did was invent phony Money out of thin air. Not backing it up means all the money out there is devalued as the total value is spread out over the additional 1 plus Trillion in Printed and not backed up Money.

So Basically we would be deliberately hurting our Economy more for what? To buy some time and not have this debate until next year?

I for one believe we need to have this Debate now, not later.

How?

The Treasury pays that interest on that debt and the Fed returns 90% back. You fail to grasp that it simply doesn't exist.

How would this devalue the dollar? All of a sudden the national deficit is $1 trillion lower and that is supposed to spook foreign investors?

Where were you telling everyone the economic dangers of the QE2 program, which had a much more detrimental effect than this would have.

All that matters is what the Markets and Credit Rating People would think of it my friend. Real or Imagined it would have a very Negative Impact.

 

[8537]

On the other hand, it's an intriguing idea.

 

[Charles_Main]

No, I understand very well that the Federal Reserve is an independent agency.

I'm not implying that dissolving that artificial debt wouldn't have any negative impact I'm stating it pretty clearly. The negative impact and devaluing of the dollar came from the actual QE program, it's called inflation.

"Paul's plan starts with the Federal Reserve. In the last year or two the Fed has been buying up U.S. Treasury bonds in an effort to lower interest rates and boost the economy. The most recent round of that buying has been dubbed QE2, and has come under a good deal of criticism, though most economists agree that it was a generally helpful policy. The result is that the Fed now holds nearly $1.7 trillion in U.S. debt. But that is really phony debt. The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.

"Paul's plan: Get the Fed and the Treasury to rip up that debt. It's fake debt anyway. And the Fed is legally allowed to return the debt to the Treasury to be destroyed. A trillion and a half dollars is currently about what spending is expected to exceed tax revenue in 2011."

Yes, and that inflation and further devaluing of the Dollar would be made worse if the Government dissolved the Debt it owes the Fed. Basically they printed money out of thin air on the promise that the Gov owed 1 Trillion to the Fed. So what we would be doing is saying, ah never mind. We just going to admit that what we did was invent phony Money out of thin air. Not backing it up means all the money out there is devalued as the total value is spread out over the additional 1 plus Trillion in Printed and not backed up Money.

So Basically we would be deliberately hurting our Economy more for what? To buy some time and not have this debate until next year?

I for one believe we need to have this Debate now, not later.

Where were you telling everyone the economic dangers of the QE2 program, which had a much more detrimental effect than this would have.

Um With all due Respect. I was screaming at the top of my lungs. DON'T DO IT. I have been chastising everyone involved for creating money out of thin air ever since they first suggested it.

To Me this shit brings back learning about Pre WWII Germany and the collapse of the wymark republic, and I have been saying so for ever, so please don't ask me where I was on it. I was there.

 

[Google]

I'm sure the member-owner banks of the Fed would be thrilled!

And who are the stake holders of the federal reserve?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I believe we can all agree, from right to left, that this debt is in fact phony debt. Even the progressive/leftist ‘The New Republic’ (Ron Paul) agrees that this is a painless solution that would reduce the debt by $1 trillion and would give Congress needed time to address this issue.

Agreed.

In fact, much of this ‘crisis’ is political contrivance.

 

[8537]

I'm sure the member-owner banks of the Fed would be thrilled!

And who are the stake holders of the federal reserve?

All of the member banks. as shareholders, they get a portion of interest earned.

 

[Google]

Yes, and that inflation and further devaluing of the Dollar would be made worse if the Government dissolved the Debt it owes the Fed. Basically they printed money out of thin air on the promise that the Gov owed 1 Trillion to the Fed. So what we would be doing is saying, ah never mind. We just going to admit that what we did was invent phony Money out of thin air. Not backing it up means all the money out there is devalued as the total value is spread out over the additional 1 plus Trillion in Printed and not backed up Money.

So Basically we would be deliberately hurting our Economy more for what? To buy some time and not have this debate until next year?

I for one believe we need to have this Debate now, not later.

Where were you telling everyone the economic dangers of the QE2 program, which had a much more detrimental effect than this would have.

Um With all due Respect. I was screaming at the top of my lungs. DON'T DO IT. I have been chastising everyone involved for creating money out of thin air ever since they first suggested it.

To Me this shit brings back learning about Pre WWII Germany and the collapse of the wymark republic, and I have been saying so for ever, so please don't ask me where I was on it. I was there.

Okay, that was a poor question on my part.

What I'm failing to understand is how this action would cause the economic effects you say it will. How will it devalue the dollar?

 

[Richard-H]

The media has reminded the American people several times throughout this debt limit debate that the national debt currently stands at $14 trillion, of which conservatively $1 trillion is held by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve obtained that debt through its complicated quantitative easing programs (Quantitative easing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) –more specifically QE2-- but it is debt that the government essentially owes itself.

Why?

“The Treasury pays the interest on the debt on behalf of the U.S. government to the Fed, which in turn returns 90 percent of the payments it gets back to the Treasury. Nonetheless, that $1.7 trillion in U.S. bonds that the Fed owns, despite the shell game of payments, is still counted in the debt ceiling number, which caps that amount of total federal debt at $14.3 trillion.” (Debt Ceiling: Could Ron Paul's Plan Save Us From Disaster, twice? - The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com)

Neither Republican, Democrat nor the media, despite all telling Americans that Armageddon will occur if something isn’t done, have brought up the fact that Congress could simply tell the Federal Reserve to dissolve the Treasury Bills it currently holds, effectively reducing the national debt by $1 trillion.

Unlike all other proposals this one doesn’t endanger anyone’s retirement or pension because it is money that was literally fabricated from thin air.

I believe we can all agree, from right to left, that this debt is in fact phony debt. Even the progressive/leftist ‘The New Republic’ (Ron Paul) agrees that this is a painless solution that would reduce the debt by $1 trillion and would give Congress needed time to address this issue.

Of course this isn’t my idea—I wish I were so clever—it is the proposal that Congressman Ron Paul has been pushing since the beginning of this whole debt ceiling debate.

We do not have a debt crisis - it's all a wingnut fabrication:

The U.S. Is Not Drowning In Debt | Moneyland | TIME.com

We do have a very real debt ceiling crisis - also created by the wingnuts.

 

[Google]

I'm sure the member-owner banks of the Fed would be thrilled!

And who are the stake holders of the federal reserve?

All of the member banks. as shareholders, they get a portion of interest earned.

Listen, if you believe taking this action would have a detrimental effect on the shareholders you are incorrect.

Say the interest on those T-bills are paid--with made up money--do those shareholders benefit?

You never did say who those shareholders are?

 

[8537]

And who are the stake holders of the federal reserve?

All of the member banks. as shareholders, they get a portion of interest earned.

Listen, if you believe taking this action would have a detrimental effect on the shareholders you are incorrect.

Say the interest on those T-bills are paid--with made up money--do those shareholders benefit?

You never did say who those shareholders are?

I said who the shareholders are. Read my post again.

It would have a detrimental effect on the shareholders b/c they would not receive their portion of the interest payments, nor would they have access to the securities held by the Fed.

Would that be worth it? I don't know.

 

[percysunshine]

There was a time when Time was a respectable publication. I think they lost it when Al Gore invented the internet.

 

[uscitizen]

The fact is there are no simple painless solutions to debt.
Just one solution, pay what you owe.

 

[percysunshine]

The fact is there are no simple painless solutions to debt.
Just one solution, pay what you owe.

I keep thinking of that song from the movie 'M*A*S*H'...."Suicide is painless...it brings on many changes....."

Obamas 2012 campaign theme song, I'm sure.