Zone1 WHUUUUUT??!$!#! corrupt mr Zelensky wants to take back crimea?

[Tom Paine 1949]

If the war stalemates, Zelensky’s tough talk about not settling without Crimea will change. The history of Crimea is rather unique, not worth going into again here. Suffice it to say it is an issue that many Ukrainians could be willing to negotiate away to achieve peace. If things go very bad for Russia, then another “self-determination” referendum (supervised by the UN) may actually become part of a future settlement. An early cease fire need not try to resolve this issue completely. The tougher issue is the new lands taken in 2020 by the Russian state (and officially now part of the Russian Federation). To win back those lands the Ukrainians will fight harder and longer.

Also Zelensky is no fool. His original “peace program” envisioned working a deal with the Russians to refine and implement a version of the Minsk Agreements. This was vetoed not by the Americans and not by Europeans, but by the Ukrainian military already involved in the Donbas fighting. Internal political forces in Ukraine should not be ignored in re-telling this sad story.

 

[AZrailwhale]

you're comparing apples to oranges.
the Spanish native speakers in California came to the US for better living conditions than they'd get in Mexico.
they're happy to integrate.

the native Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea have voiced their opinion in Russian-organized referendums : they want to join the Russian Federation or Russia.
those referendum results were subsequently dismissed as irrelevant by NATO and the EU!
PROOF THAT WE'VE HAD A SECRET PLAN SINCE AT LEAST THE 2000s TO TAKE UKRAINE AND THE BLACK SEA FROM RUSSIA.

and eh, what you're suggesting here is nothing short of oppression, did you know that?

No, most of the ones supporting partition are the immigrants Russia sent into Ukraine. The Native Ukranian Russian speakers are fighting on the Ukranian side now. Of course, real, neutral countries disregarded the RUSSIAN administered referendums, they were held by RUSSIA, the votes were counted by RUSSIANS and no independent monitors were allowed. In other words, typical "elections" held by tyrannical governments all over the world with predetermined results.

 

[peacefan]

If the war stalemates, Zelensky’s tough talk about not settling without Crimea will change. The history of Crimea is rather unique, not worth going into again here. Suffice it to say it is an issue that many Ukrainians could be willing to negotiate away to achieve peace. If things go very bad for Russia, then another “self-determination” referendum (supervised by the UN) may actually become part of a future settlement. An early cease fire need not try to resolve this issue completely. The tougher issue is the new lands taken in 2020 by the Russian state (and officially now part of the Russian Federation). To win back those lands the Ukrainians will fight harder and longer.

Also Zelensky is no fool. His original “peace program” envisioned working a deal with the Russians to refine and implement a version of the Minsk Agreements. This was vetoed not by the Americans and not by Europeans, but by the Ukrainian military already involved in the Donbas fighting. Internal political forces in Ukraine should not be ignored in re-telling this sad story.

No, most of the ones supporting partition are the immigrants Russia sent into Ukraine. The Native Ukranian Russian speakers are fighting on the Ukranian side now. Of course, real, neutral countries disregarded the RUSSIAN administered referendums, they were held by RUSSIA, the votes were counted by RUSSIANS and no independent monitors were allowed. In other words, typical "elections" held by tyrannical governments all over the world with predetermined results.

then i'd like to see that UN-supervised referendum happen, even for the Donbass regions.
and i'd like Zelensky and Putin to follow the outcome of that referendum.

 

[sartre play]

OK….what is your solution?

Putin is occupying Ukraine territory, has destroyed critical Infrastructure, slaughtered civilians.


Where do we go from here?

GOOD QUESTION.

 

[AZrailwhale]

better to give some land away to demanding yet powerful fellow humans from nearby those lands,
than almost-perpetual war.

yeah, surpriiiiiise! another piece of evidence that the US and EU administrations were on a corrupt path in Ukraine from 2000 onwards.
maybe even from the 1990s or 1980s (when the Berlin wall fell).

You obviously never had to deal with a bully in school. Giving a bully like Putin what he demands just emboldens him to demand more and more.

 

[AZrailwhale]

ok, i know when to yield, and do so permanently. but i'm not sure yet if i should do so on this "campaign" of mine..
(i'm keeping reader levels for my ideas quite reasonably low, i only post them here and on my own fb timeline with subsequent emailing, posting and linking to official US and Dutch political parties and news organisations)

Putin and his cronies (modern-day failed protectors of the Russian homeland, failed at the diplomatic-skills level) are all a-holes and biatches (i've heard the Navalsky stories in detail on CNN-US) towards all that oppose them,
and they deserves to have Crimea taken from them.

or : is the EU so welcoming that they invite any freedom-loving people to sign over their country to them?
and does the EU and NATO use dirty diplomatic and business strategies with that?
are the EU and NATO simply more skilled at warfare in general, and -more importantly!- are they abusing that in greedy expansionistic efforts, like the creation of Israel, and "the liberation of Vietnam", and in so so many other spots around the world since at least the end of WW2, but also before that, even in the 1400s-1600s (de-Inca-fication of South America by Europeans that arrived by ship with guns)..?


is it any wonder the rest of the world hates us?
i don't think so.
but here's the crux of my argumentation, and a loop back right to the start of it : should we anger a population size that outnumbers us 3:1 any more than we already have, as Westerners (capitalist democracies)?

So now you are equating modern countries defending themseves with the Conquistadores. here’s a newsflash for you. The Spanish didn’t conquer either the Inca or Aztecs. Hernando Cortes only had two hundred men in his force that engaged Montezuma’s Aztecs. It was all the other local Indians that defeated the Incas and Aztecs, NOT the Spanish. The Incas and Aztecs were the Russians in that scenario, conquering and looting their neighbors, enslaving them and sacrificing thousands of them every month to their gods in bloody ceremonies.

 

[peacefan]

You obviously never had to deal with a bully in school. Giving a bully like Putin what he demands just emboldens him to demand more and more.

actually i've had to deal with 3 persistent bullies in highschool and even some in grammar school.
but drawing a line in the sand should be done with care; don't go demanding too much from the bullies, and not too little either.

to just "take" the Baltic zone and the Black Sea, is not drawing a line with care.
it's drawing the line in the spirit of greed.

 

[peacefan]

So now you are equating modern countries defending themseves with the Conquistadores. here’s a newsflash for you. The Spanish didn’t conquer either the Inca or Aztecs. Hernando Cortes only had two hundred men in his force that engaged Montezuma’s Aztecs. It was all the other local Indians that defeated the Incas and Aztecs, NOT the Spanish. The Incas and Aztecs were the Russians in that scenario, conquering and looting their neighbors, enslaving them and sacrificing thousands of them every month to their gods in bloody ceremonies.

the Russians can not be compared to the Aztecs.

 

[Couchpotato]

Somebody needs to explain that to Putin

He seems to be defending what he’s taken fairly well so far.

 

[sartre play]

FOR DICTORS THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH LAND OR POWER.
Russian people are hurting due to dictator, dictators are selfish self serving people.
Only interested in power or money.

 

[AZrailwhale]

the Russians can not be compared to the Aztecs.

Other than the human sacrifice part they can.

 

[otto105]

Zelensky is an insane hobbit.
He's the court jester for the NWO.
Ukraine can't even retake the territory they have already lost unless NATO escalates this to WWIII

Sooooo, you lika the pootin boi.


You kiss two rings everyday.