Who Pays the Taxes? Who Should?

[syrenn]

Look, I'm not really sure who you think you're arguing with, but I'd appriciated it you'd stop assigning me positions I haven't taken. I don't want to redistribute wealth, and I don't want Swedens tax rate.

Creating an environment that doesn't hinder success is part of governments responsibly. Hence why taxes, regulation, and education are part of government. Currently we are 10th in upward mobility. It's great to say hard work is the key to success, but that hard work is more likely to lead to success if you live in Germany.

I started off in favor of a flat tax, however after having don't some research, it doesn't seem to work well in real life.

I'd say eliminate federal taxes altogether, and have the fed assess a yearly fee to each state, then allow the state to tax how they see fit. That way we can eliminate the power that comes with giving the rich loopholes, and the poor credits, and each state can decide what type of tax structure they want.

higher taxes will hinder my success....so were does that fit into your logic? Paying for someone else health insurance and education.... will hinder my success... again..where does that fit into your logic?


Flat tax works for me..... If the "poor" think its fair to take say...20% from anyone "richer" then themselves.... why isnt it fair to take the same 20% off of them?

20% is 20%...and hurts everyone the same regardless if you are rich or poor. Or are you saying its alright to hurt some..and not others?

20% doesn't hurt everyone the same.

It's the same number, not the same hurt.

oh?

i am pretty sure the "rich" would just as pissed off as the poor

 

[Wry Catcher]

higher taxes will hinder my success....so were does that fit into your logic? Paying for someone else health insurance and education.... will hinder my success... again..where does that fit into your logic?


Flat tax works for me..... If the "poor" think its fair to take say...20% from anyone "richer" then themselves.... why isnt it fair to take the same 20% off of them?

20% is 20%...and hurts everyone the same regardless if you are rich or poor. Or are you saying its alright to hurt some..and not others?

20% doesn't hurt everyone the same.

It's the same number, not the same hurt.

oh?

i am pretty sure the "rich" would just as pissed off as the poor

Yeah, having to buy a MBZ and not a Rolls Royce Phantom would really piss me off. Screw those people who have to walk 'cause the cost to ride public transportation has gotten to expensive. What's wrong with you, born without an ounce of empathy?

 

[syrenn]

20% doesn't hurt everyone the same.

It's the same number, not the same hurt.

oh?

i am pretty sure the "rich" would just as pissed off as the poor

Yeah, having to buy a MBZ and not a Rolls Royce Phantom would really piss me off. Screw those people who have to walk 'cause the cost to ride public transportation has gotten to expensive. What's wrong with you, born without an ounce of empathy?

i was born with far to much empathy.......

and got sick to death of that very empathy being played by the users in this world. I wised up, and realized "helping" people is not always helping them. I realized that giving people what they "need" is not always what they really need.

Life sucks.... its shitty to be poor, i get that. The government should not in the business of mandating morality to force the wealthy to take care of the poor.

If the government IS in the business of forcing that morality...then the "poor" should be taxed MORE so our government can spend that money on the "poor" in other countries in the form of aid for them.... you know...pass that giving to the poor morality on to everyone.

 

[syrenn]

Look, I'm not really sure who you think you're arguing with, but I'd appriciated it you'd stop assigning me positions I haven't taken. I don't want to redistribute wealth, and I don't want Swedens tax rate.

Creating an environment that doesn't hinder success is part of governments responsibly. Hence why taxes, regulation, and education are part of government. Currently we are 10th in upward mobility. It's great to say hard work is the key to success, but that hard work is more likely to lead to success if you live in Germany.

I started off in favor of a flat tax, however after having don't some research, it doesn't seem to work well in real life.

I'd say eliminate federal taxes altogether, and have the fed assess a yearly fee to each state, then allow the state to tax how they see fit. That way we can eliminate the power that comes with giving the rich loopholes, and the poor credits, and each state can decide what type of tax structure they want.

higher taxes will hinder my success....so were does that fit into your logic? Paying for someone else health insurance and education.... will hinder my success... again..where does that fit into your logic?


Flat tax works for me..... If the "poor" think its fair to take say...20% from anyone "richer" then themselves.... why isnt it fair to take the same 20% off of them?

20% is 20%...and hurts everyone the same regardless if you are rich or poor. Or are you saying its alright to hurt some..and not others?

Can no one argue with me without assigning me positions I haven't taken?

Who said I was in favor of tax increases on the wealthy?

Taxes are the price you pay for living in America. You pay taxes, I pay taxes. The state and fed take and I'm sorry if you don't like how they spend it. I dont get the option to pay for only the things I want or use, and neither do you.

You like the flat tax. Ok.

Like I said, I was forthe flat tax, but it doesn't seem like it actually works well when put into practice. So why not let the states decide, take the fed out of it completely.

Federal taxes are what only 50% of us pay. So not everyone "pays" taxes.

I agree.... taxes are the price you pay to live in this country....so everyone should pay the same.

How would you know it does not work well in practice? As far as i know...we have never been on a flat tax here in this country.

 

[AmyNation]

higher taxes will hinder my success....so were does that fit into your logic? Paying for someone else health insurance and education.... will hinder my success... again..where does that fit into your logic?


Flat tax works for me..... If the "poor" think its fair to take say...20% from anyone "richer" then themselves.... why isnt it fair to take the same 20% off of them?

20% is 20%...and hurts everyone the same regardless if you are rich or poor. Or are you saying its alright to hurt some..and not others?

Can no one argue with me without assigning me positions I haven't taken?

Who said I was in favor of tax increases on the wealthy?

Taxes are the price you pay for living in America. You pay taxes, I pay taxes. The state and fed take and I'm sorry if you don't like how they spend it. I dont get the option to pay for only the things I want or use, and neither do you.

You like the flat tax. Ok.

Like I said, I was forthe flat tax, but it doesn't seem like it actually works well when put into practice. So why not let the states decide, take the fed out of it completely.

Federal taxes are what only 50% of us pay. So not everyone "pays" taxes.

I agree.... taxes are the price you pay to live in this country....so everyone should pay the same.

How would you know it does not work well in practice? As far as i know...we have never been on a flat tax here in this country.

Personally, I don't begrudge the rich their wealth or their tax loopholes, and I dont begrudge the poor their tax credits or any aid the state may give them. Clearly you dont agree. I'd suggest perhaps taking some time and volunteering at a food bank, or homeless shelter because it seems like you've let the stereotype of the welfare queen cloud your judgement.

 

[syrenn]

Can no one argue with me without assigning me positions I haven't taken?

Who said I was in favor of tax increases on the wealthy?

Taxes are the price you pay for living in America. You pay taxes, I pay taxes. The state and fed take and I'm sorry if you don't like how they spend it. I dont get the option to pay for only the things I want or use, and neither do you.

You like the flat tax. Ok.

Like I said, I was forthe flat tax, but it doesn't seem like it actually works well when put into practice. So why not let the states decide, take the fed out of it completely.

Federal taxes are what only 50% of us pay. So not everyone "pays" taxes.

I agree.... taxes are the price you pay to live in this country....so everyone should pay the same.

How would you know it does not work well in practice? As far as i know...we have never been on a flat tax here in this country.

Personally, I don't begrudge the rich their wealth or their tax loopholes, and I dont begrudge the poor their tax credits or any aid the state may give them. Clearly you dont agree. I'd suggest perhaps taking some time and volunteering at a food bank, or homeless shelter because it seems like you've let the stereotype of the welfare queen cloud your judgement.

I begrudge ALL loopholes and credits.... as it means they are not paying their fair share of federal taxes.

i do quite enough for food banks... and do far more then your average person with the homeless, thank you very much.

 

[AmyNation]

Federal taxes are what only 50% of us pay. So not everyone "pays" taxes.

I agree.... taxes are the price you pay to live in this country....so everyone should pay the same.

How would you know it does not work well in practice? As far as i know...we have never been on a flat tax here in this country.

Personally, I don't begrudge the rich their wealth or their tax loopholes, and I dont begrudge the poor their tax credits or any aid the state may give them. Clearly you dont agree. I'd suggest perhaps taking some time and volunteering at a food bank, or homeless shelter because it seems like you've let the stereotype of the welfare queen cloud your judgement.

I begrudge ALL loopholes and credits.... as it means they are not paying their fair share of federal taxes.

i do quite enough for food banks... and do far more then your average person with the homeless, thank you very much.

There is a difference in saying the system is broken, and blaming the people who abide by it.

I think our tax system is too bloated, and perhaps the best thing for our nation is to scrap it, and try a new system entirely.

 

[syrenn]

Personally, I don't begrudge the rich their wealth or their tax loopholes, and I dont begrudge the poor their tax credits or any aid the state may give them. Clearly you dont agree. I'd suggest perhaps taking some time and volunteering at a food bank, or homeless shelter because it seems like you've let the stereotype of the welfare queen cloud your judgement.

I begrudge ALL loopholes and credits.... as it means they are not paying their fair share of federal taxes.

i do quite enough for food banks... and do far more then your average person with the homeless, thank you very much.

There is a difference in saying the system is broken, and blaming the people who abide by it.

I think our tax system is too bloated, and perhaps the best thing for our nation is to scrap it, and try a new system entirely.

i agree.... scrap it


the system that i believe is fair ...is a flat federal tax for everyone.

 

[Foxfyre]

Name calling already? The problem is you're not very bright or too lazy to consider the full consequences of what my post suggests. Mr. Koch will have enough disposable income to influence and to impact legislation and elections, all by himself. Citizens United has given him the ability to fund SuperPAC's not accountable to any controls, and influence voters using lies, half-truths and character assassination by innuendo and rumor.

So are you suggesting that the Koch brothers should have their wealth confiscated so that they cannot influence elections? How about George Soros? Do you feel the same way about him? How about Jeffrey Inmelt,Obama's 'jobs czar'? Estimated annual income $22 million. Net worth not available but substantial. How about Michael Moore with a net worth of an estimated $50 million who swears up and down that he is not part of the 1% that Obama is going after?

How much wealth do you believe a person should be allowed to acquire?

No I don't advocate the Koch brothers should have their wealth confiscated; I do advocate that limits to campaign be imposed to level the playing field. BTW, another nice try to 'put words in my mouth' and build a straw man to burn.

I put no words in your mouth. I asked you a question as to your intent re what you posted. You obviously have a very low opinion of the Koch Brothers. Do you have a higher opinion of the others I mentioned who also have the wherewithal to greatly influence an election? Even buy one if they were so inclined? Is Koch the only one you see as misusing his wealth?

So again are you willing to limit the amount of all contributions from everybody? The Supreme Court has already ruled that restricting the amount of money that individuals can give to private groups would be an infringeent of free speech. And there are ways around the contribution problem too by giving away money to legal recipients who you know will turn around and contribute that money to a cause/candidate in their own name.

Wouldn't it be better simply to limit how politicians use the people's money and control the problem that way? And then short of electing a would be dictator, it really wouldn't be all that important who we elected so far as the national economy is concerned.

 

[Wry Catcher]

oh?

i am pretty sure the "rich" would just as pissed off as the poor

Yeah, having to buy a MBZ and not a Rolls Royce Phantom would really piss me off. Screw those people who have to walk 'cause the cost to ride public transportation has gotten to expensive. What's wrong with you, born without an ounce of empathy?

i was born with far to much empathy.......

and got sick to death of that very empathy being played by the users in this world. I wised up, and realized "helping" people is not always helping them. I realized that giving people what they "need" is not always what they really need.

Life sucks.... its shitty to be poor, i get that. The government should not in the business of mandating morality to force the wealthy to take care of the poor.

If the government IS in the business of forcing that morality...then the "poor" should be taxed MORE so our government can spend that money on the "poor" in other countries in the form of aid for them.... you know...pass that giving to the poor morality on to everyone.

Have you ever traveled outside of the US? Have you seen real poverty, cripples begging on the street, with bent and shriveled legs, the blind and mentally retarded? You see there's no profit in providing for them, no company will aid them and there are too few resources available to nonprofits. Here, in our country, what they get in donations only supplements what they get from government grants; grants Romney and Ryan will, cut suggesting such are entitlements and not the responsibility of government.

Frankly callous conservatives disgust me.

 

[syrenn]

Yeah, having to buy a MBZ and not a Rolls Royce Phantom would really piss me off. Screw those people who have to walk 'cause the cost to ride public transportation has gotten to expensive. What's wrong with you, born without an ounce of empathy?

i was born with far to much empathy.......

and got sick to death of that very empathy being played by the users in this world. I wised up, and realized "helping" people is not always helping them. I realized that giving people what they "need" is not always what they really need.

Life sucks.... its shitty to be poor, i get that. The government should not in the business of mandating morality to force the wealthy to take care of the poor.

If the government IS in the business of forcing that morality...then the "poor" should be taxed MORE so our government can spend that money on the "poor" in other countries in the form of aid for them.... you know...pass that giving to the poor morality on to everyone.

Have you ever traveled outside of the US? Have you seen real poverty, cripples begging on the street, with bent and shriveled legs, the blind and mentally retarded? You see there's no profit in providing for them, no company will aid them and there are too few resources available to nonprofits. What they get in donations only supplements what they get from government grants; grants Romney and Ryan will cut suggesting such entitlements are not the responsibility of government.

Frankly callous conservatives disgust me.

i agree... but if our government feel that it is its place to take from the "rich" and give to the poor....

lets DO just that.

Our poor.....are quite wealthy compared to the ones you just painted so well for us.... lets tax our poor... take a bit more from them along with everyone else...to give to the truly poor.... I am very sure more tax dollars would go far in foreign aid.

see how that works?

 

[Wry Catcher]

So are you suggesting that the Koch brothers should have their wealth confiscated so that they cannot influence elections? How about George Soros? Do you feel the same way about him? How about Jeffrey Inmelt,Obama's 'jobs czar'? Estimated annual income $22 million. Net worth not available but substantial. How about Michael Moore with a net worth of an estimated $50 million who swears up and down that he is not part of the 1% that Obama is going after?

How much wealth do you believe a person should be allowed to acquire?

No I don't advocate the Koch brothers should have their wealth confiscated; I do advocate that limits to campaign be imposed to level the playing field. BTW, another nice try to 'put words in my mouth' and build a straw man to burn.

I put no words in your mouth. BULLSHIT! I asked you a question as to your intent re what you posted. You obviously have a very low opinion of the Koch Brothers. Do you have a higher opinion of the others I mentioned who also have the wherewithal to greatly influence an election? Even buy one if they were so inclined? Is Koch the only one you see as misusing his wealth?

My opinion of the Koch Brothers is based on their behavior and collusion with Supreme Court Justices. I'm opposed to Plutocracy, and sadly that is what our country has become.

So again are you willing to limit the amount of all contributions from everybody? YEP The Supreme Court has already ruled that restricting the amount of money that individuals can give to private groups would be an infringeent of free speech. THAT TOO IS BULLSHIT, IN FACT ONLY FIVE MEMBERS VOTED FOR CU V. FEC; FOUR DID NOT. And there are ways around the contribution problem too by giving away money to legal recipients who you know will turn around and contribute that money to a cause/candidate in their own name. WHICH SHOULD BE A FELONY
Wouldn't it be better simply to limit how politicians use the people's money and control the problem that way? And then short of electing a would be dictator, it really wouldn't be all that important who we elected so far as the national economy is concerned.

What would be better if pols didn't lie, accept bribes and vote in their own self interest, but in the interests of those they are supposed to represent!

I've got a plane to catch; catch ya'll from Boston in a few hours.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yeah, having to buy a MBZ and not a Rolls Royce Phantom would really piss me off. Screw those people who have to walk 'cause the cost to ride public transportation has gotten to expensive. What's wrong with you, born without an ounce of empathy?

i was born with far to much empathy.......

and got sick to death of that very empathy being played by the users in this world. I wised up, and realized "helping" people is not always helping them. I realized that giving people what they "need" is not always what they really need.

Life sucks.... its shitty to be poor, i get that. The government should not in the business of mandating morality to force the wealthy to take care of the poor.

If the government IS in the business of forcing that morality...then the "poor" should be taxed MORE so our government can spend that money on the "poor" in other countries in the form of aid for them.... you know...pass that giving to the poor morality on to everyone.

Have you ever traveled outside of the US? Have you seen real poverty, cripples begging on the street, with bent and shriveled legs, the blind and mentally retarded? You see there's no profit in providing for them, no company will aid them and there are too few resources available to nonprofits. Here, in our country, what they get in donations only supplements what they get from government grants; grants Romney and Ryan will, cut suggesting such are entitlements and not the responsibility of government.

Frankly callous conservatives disgust me.

Well a whole bunch of us 'callous conservatives' are giving of our time, talent, and resources to help a lot of those poor and cripplied in a number of countries. Right now I am helping put together the resources for a group of about 100 who will leave here in a few weeks to deliver donated wheelchairs, walkers, crutches,and other important help to some of the poorest people of Peru. They will spend eight days there, at their own expense, to help fit those chairs, etc. to people who will be really mobile for the first time in their lives. And we all contribute to other ministries that are also helping.

I have a hard time thinking that people really care when they feel the moral superiority to judge me but they feel righteous when our country sends money to other countries that mostly props up unethical governments who receive it but rarely get it to anybody who really needs it. It is like pulling teeth to get through all the red tape to get to those people in Peru, but we have been doing it continuously for more than 20 years now. And we are 100% sure that 100% of our efforts are getting to those who need it.

So what are you doing to help others, Wry?

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the fucking government is going to institute a tax then no one should be exempt.

Can you buy gas and not pay state and federal gas taxes? No.

Therefore if there is going to be an income tax then everyone with an income should pay it. Period.

So I assume you are adamantly against extending the bush tax cuts that are set to expire at the end of the year?

I want the current tax code scrapped completely.

Everyone and I mean everyone with an income, regardless of its source, should pay the same rate.

I have suggested 10% of gross income. That would result in a net increase of revenue and a savings of billions each year from gutting the IRS. Not to mention the billions in annual savings from the public not having to hire tax attorneys and accountants to figure out their returns.

Asking some people to pay 20% or more of their income in federal income taxes taxes while allowing others to pay nothing is unjust.

 

[Skull Pilot]

i voted flat tax

everyone has skin in the game...and everyone bleeds the same.

False. Not the same.

Not FEELING the same does not mean it is not the same...

10% of your dollar is the same as 10% of my dollar and 10% of Joe Crackhead's dollar

Actually they are the same.

10% of a dollar is 10 cents no matter where that dollar comes from.

 

[Skull Pilot]

False. Feeling has nothing to do with it. We've been through this before and you lose everytime.

Hardly.. everything of yours is based on the feeling of how tough it is on someone... PERIOD.... While individual situation, impact, and circumstance due to their own earning is their own personal plight... not the plight of government, and not the plight of society

The flat tax without exemption, without exception, without deduction, and without floor or ceiling on every dollar earned by every citizen no matter the source is BY DEFINITION EQUALITY IN TREATMENT... A.K.A. THE SAME

You have been bitch slapped on this so many times it is laughable

If your idea is so amazing why can't you name a single politician who supports it? Not one.

Remind me who has bitch slapped who when you can't give me an answer.

So now your standard for a good idea is whether or not some corrupt scum sucking motherfucking politician approves of it?

Baaaaa Baaaaaa

 

[Skull Pilot]

False. Not the same.

Not FEELING the same does not mean it is not the same...

10% of your dollar is the same as 10% of my dollar and 10% of Joe Crackhead's dollar

Yep, simple huh? Not so simple is 10% of your dollar leaves you $45,000; 10% of my dollar leaves me with $90,000 and 10% of David Koch leaves him with (my best guess) $90,000,000

You should post in green to symbolize your envy

 

[RDD_1210]

If the fucking government is going to institute a tax then no one should be exempt.

Can you buy gas and not pay state and federal gas taxes? No.

Therefore if there is going to be an income tax then everyone with an income should pay it. Period.

So I assume you are adamantly against extending the bush tax cuts that are set to expire at the end of the year?

I want the current tax code scrapped completely.

Everyone and I mean everyone with an income, regardless of its source, should pay the same rate.

I have suggested 10% of gross income. That would result in a net increase of revenue and a savings of billions each year from gutting the IRS. Not to mention the billions in annual savings from the public not having to hire tax attorneys and accountants to figure out their returns.

Asking some people to pay 20% or more of their income in federal income taxes taxes while allowing others to pay nothing is unjust.

That's great but now what I asked. Since that obviously isn't going to happen anytime soon I wanted to hear your opinion on a real world situation.

So I assume you are adamantly against extending the bush tax cuts that are set to expire at the end of the year?

 

[RDD_1210]

Hardly.. everything of yours is based on the feeling of how tough it is on someone... PERIOD.... While individual situation, impact, and circumstance due to their own earning is their own personal plight... not the plight of government, and not the plight of society

The flat tax without exemption, without exception, without deduction, and without floor or ceiling on every dollar earned by every citizen no matter the source is BY DEFINITION EQUALITY IN TREATMENT... A.K.A. THE SAME

You have been bitch slapped on this so many times it is laughable

If your idea is so amazing why can't you name a single politician who supports it? Not one.

Remind me who has bitch slapped who when you can't give me an answer.

So now your standard for a good idea is whether or not some corrupt scum sucking motherfucking politician approves of it?

Baaaaa Baaaaaa

Good point, EVERY politician is corrupt throughout the history of time. Remind me who you are supporting in this upcoming election? Remind me who you decided was worth voting for in the last election or the one before that.

 

[RDD_1210]

Not FEELING the same does not mean it is not the same...

10% of your dollar is the same as 10% of my dollar and 10% of Joe Crackhead's dollar

Yep, simple huh? Not so simple is 10% of your dollar leaves you $45,000; 10% of my dollar leaves me with $90,000 and 10% of David Koch leaves him with (my best guess) $90,000,000

You should post in green to symbolize your envy

Says the idiot who is jealous of poor people. Some life you must have that it looks like poor people have it too good to you.