Who is To Blame in the Debt Negotiations?

[Truthmatters]

This thread is about whos fault this mess is.

The fault lies right in the republicans hands

 

[bripat9643]

Do you actaully believe what you've posted? If so you need a reality check or phsychiatric intervention.

Obama campigned on hope and change, ending a period of fear mongering by the previous administration. Then reality smacked him in the face. Our economy crashed, not because he did anything, but because of a series of mistakes made by the Bush Administration.

The New Right doesn't have a plan, the NR has goals which is far different than having a vision. The radical Republicans (RR) want to regain the White House, that and increasing their numbers in the Congress is goal number one. Goal two also has two components - cut taxes and cut regulations; goal three is to privatize social security and medicare.

Goals are not visions, visions require considering the process (the means) and the ends, both intended and otherwise. Critical thinking is employed and input from supporters and detractors need to be considered before a mission is created. Even then events change and require modifications; adjustments made in timelines, personnel and other resources evaluated on a cost-benefit basis and changed when necessary.

The NR has done none of this, they have relied on emotion to motivate them as well as personal ambition - a role played by demagogues since the dawn of civilizaiton.

So "Hope and Change" is a "vision?"

What you really mean is that it's an hallucination.

The idea that Nazi Pelosi and Harry Reid engage in any "critical thinking" other than scheming on how to increase spending is too absurd for words.

 

[bripat9643]

This thread is about whos fault this mess is.

The fault lies right in the republicans hands

Nope.

 

[Jarhead]

Do you actaully believe what you've posted? If so you need a reality check or phsychiatric intervention.

Obama campigned on hope and change, ending a period of fear mongering by the previous administration. Then reality smacked him in the face. Our economy crashed, not because he did anything, but because of a series of mistakes made by the Bush Administration.

The New Right doesn't have a plan, the NR has goals which is far different than having a vision. The radical Republicans (RR) want to regain the White House, that and increasing their numbers in the Congress is goal number one. Goal two also has two components - cut taxes and cut regulations; goal three is to privatize social security and medicare.

Goals are not visions, visions require considering the process (the means) and the ends, both intended and otherwise. Critical thinking is employed and input from supporters and detractors need to be considered before a mission is created. Even then events change and require modifications; adjustments made in timelines, personnel and other resources evaluated on a cost-benefit basis and changed when necessary.

The NR has done none of this, they have relied on emotion to motivate them as well as personal ambition - a role played by demagogues since the dawn of civilizaiton.

So "Hope and Change" is a "vision?"

What you really mean is that it's an hallucination.

The idea that Nazi Pelosi and Harry Reid engage in any "critical thinking" other than scheming on how to increase spending is too absurd for words.

In my opinion, the driving force for Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are votes....there has been an bovious trend by the democratic party of buying votes.

Paraphrased...
'look at all the goodies I got for you...vote for me again'
'they dont want to give you free stuff, so vote for me again'

and my all time favorite....again paraphrased.....

'we are in the worst economy since the great depression. We will all have to tighten our belts. Many of you will find yourself unemployed and not able to feed your families.....so....VOTE FOR ME AND 95% OF YOU WILL GET A CHECK IN THE MAIL WHEN YOU NEED IT THE MOST.....

 

[Jarhead]

This thread is about whos fault this mess is.

The fault lies right in the republicans hands

OK.....so please back that up with something factual.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Do you actaully believe what you've posted? If so you need a reality check or phsychiatric intervention.

Obama campigned on hope and change, ending a period of fear mongering by the previous administration. Then reality smacked him in the face. Our economy crashed, not because he did anything, but because of a series of mistakes made by the Bush Administration.

The New Right doesn't have a plan, the NR has goals which is far different than having a vision. The radical Republicans (RR) want to regain the White House, that and increasing their numbers in the Congress is goal number one. Goal two also has two components - cut taxes and cut regulations; goal three is to privatize social security and medicare.

Goals are not visions, visions require considering the process (the means) and the ends, both intended and otherwise. Critical thinking is employed and input from supporters and detractors need to be considered before a mission is created. Even then events change and require modifications; adjustments made in timelines, personnel and other resources evaluated on a cost-benefit basis and changed when necessary.

The NR has done none of this, they have relied on emotion to motivate them as well as personal ambition - a role played by demagogues since the dawn of civilizaiton.

So "Hope and Change" is a "vision?"

What you really mean is that it's an hallucination.

The idea that Nazi Pelosi and Harry Reid engage in any "critical thinking" other than scheming on how to increase spending is too absurd for words.

I've made my opinion clear, on the instant issue and on your (too) many posts. You're an extreme partisan, obnoxious and seem to be of below average intelligence - certainly you have no social skills.

 

[Wiseacre]

Plenty of blame to go around IMHO. Kinda useless to say who's more to blame, the election will settle that next year. I think they'll strike a deal and it'll blow over, but I alos think our credit rating will get downgraded no matter what happens, and that's going to make a lot of people upset. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of incumbents on both sides gets voted out of office int he nxt primaries.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Do you actaully believe what you've posted? If so you need a reality check or phsychiatric intervention.

Obama campigned on hope and change, ending a period of fear mongering by the previous administration. Then reality smacked him in the face. Our economy crashed, not because he did anything, but because of a series of mistakes made by the Bush Administration.

The New Right doesn't have a plan, the NR has goals which is far different than having a vision. The radical Republicans (RR) want to regain the White House, that and increasing their numbers in the Congress is goal number one. Goal two also has two components - cut taxes and cut regulations; goal three is to privatize social security and medicare.

Goals are not visions, visions require considering the process (the means) and the ends, both intended and otherwise. Critical thinking is employed and input from supporters and detractors need to be considered before a mission is created. Even then events change and require modifications; adjustments made in timelines, personnel and other resources evaluated on a cost-benefit basis and changed when necessary.

The NR has done none of this, they have relied on emotion to motivate them as well as personal ambition - a role played by demagogues since the dawn of civilizaiton.

So "Hope and Change" is a "vision?"

What you really mean is that it's an hallucination.

The idea that Nazi Pelosi and Harry Reid engage in any "critical thinking" other than scheming on how to increase spending is too absurd for words.

I've made my opinion clear, on the instant issue and on your (too) many posts. You're an extreme partisan, obnoxious and seem to be of below average intelligence - certainly you have no social skills.

The right actually DOES have a plan, this is the 2nd plan actually.

Why does the debt bill have to have ANYTHING else in it but the debt ceiling?

1) you never answered my question

2) How do we get debt? From spending and bad budgets. What did the cut cap and balance bill do? It tries to control spending and bad budgets. The things in the bill are directly related to the debt ceiling

here, it sounds like you haven't read what the proposal was yet

The Cut, Cap, and Balance Act of 2011
CUT

Cuts total spending by $111 billion in FY 2012. The savings is divided as follows:
•Reduce non-security discretionary spending below 2008 levels, which saves $76 billion.
•$35 billion cut to non-veterans, non-Medicare, non-Social Security mandatory spending.
•Defense budget at President's level.

CAP

Total federal spending is scaled back based on the glide path for the fiscal years below:
•2012, 22.5% of GDP.
•2013, 21.7% of GDP.
•2014, 20.8% of GDP.
•2015, 20.2% of GDP.
•2016, 20.2% of GDP.
•2017, 20.0% of GDP.
•2018, 19.7% of GDP.
•2019, 19.9% of GDP.
•2020, 19.9% of GDP.
•2021, 19.9% of GDP.

BALANCE

Requires the passage of a Balanced Budget Amendment before raising the nation's debt limit.

DEBT CEILING INCREASE CONTINGENT ON BBA

Provides for the President's request for a debt ceiling increase if a qualifying Balanced Budget Amendment passes Congress and is sent to the states for ratification.

 

[Wry Catcher]

So "Hope and Change" is a "vision?"

What you really mean is that it's an hallucination.

The idea that Nazi Pelosi and Harry Reid engage in any "critical thinking" other than scheming on how to increase spending is too absurd for words.

I've made my opinion clear, on the instant issue and on your (too) many posts. You're an extreme partisan, obnoxious and seem to be of below average intelligence - certainly you have no social skills.

The right actually DOES have a plan, this is the 2nd plan actually.

Why does the debt bill have to have ANYTHING else in it but the debt ceiling?

1) you never answered my question

2) How do we get debt? From spending and bad budgets. What did the cut cap and balance bill do? It tries to control spending and bad budgets. The things in the bill are directly related to the debt ceiling

here, it sounds like you haven't read what the proposal was yet

The Cut, Cap, and Balance Act of 2011
CUT

Cuts total spending by $111 billion in FY 2012. The savings is divided as follows:
•Reduce non-security discretionary spending below 2008 levels, which saves $76 billion.
•$35 billion cut to non-veterans, non-Medicare, non-Social Security mandatory spending.
•Defense budget at President's level.

CAP

Total federal spending is scaled back based on the glide path for the fiscal years below:
•2012, 22.5% of GDP.
•2013, 21.7% of GDP.
•2014, 20.8% of GDP.
•2015, 20.2% of GDP.
•2016, 20.2% of GDP.
•2017, 20.0% of GDP.
•2018, 19.7% of GDP.
•2019, 19.9% of GDP.
•2020, 19.9% of GDP.
•2021, 19.9% of GDP.

BALANCE

Requires the passage of a Balanced Budget Amendment before raising the nation's debt limit.

DEBT CEILING INCREASE CONTINGENT ON BBA

Provides for the President's request for a debt ceiling increase if a qualifying Balanced Budget Amendment passes Congress and is sent to the states for ratification.

I disagree with your assertion, "The right actually DOES have a plan, this is the 2nd plan actually." The House offered a bill, not a plan, for it had zero possibility of passing the Senate and being signed by the president.

The radical Republicans do have a plan, the plan is to do nothing and risk default, hoping to pin the blame on the Democrats and the President. It is a classic example of the end justifies the means. However, I doubt the radicals understand they will lose the debate in the court of public opinion.

 

[Jarhead]

I've made my opinion clear, on the instant issue and on your (too) many posts. You're an extreme partisan, obnoxious and seem to be of below average intelligence - certainly you have no social skills.

The right actually DOES have a plan, this is the 2nd plan actually.

1) you never answered my question

2) How do we get debt? From spending and bad budgets. What did the cut cap and balance bill do? It tries to control spending and bad budgets. The things in the bill are directly related to the debt ceiling

here, it sounds like you haven't read what the proposal was yet

The Cut, Cap, and Balance Act of 2011
CUT

Cuts total spending by $111 billion in FY 2012. The savings is divided as follows:
•Reduce non-security discretionary spending below 2008 levels, which saves $76 billion.
•$35 billion cut to non-veterans, non-Medicare, non-Social Security mandatory spending.
•Defense budget at President's level.

CAP

Total federal spending is scaled back based on the glide path for the fiscal years below:
•2012, 22.5% of GDP.
•2013, 21.7% of GDP.
•2014, 20.8% of GDP.
•2015, 20.2% of GDP.
•2016, 20.2% of GDP.
•2017, 20.0% of GDP.
•2018, 19.7% of GDP.
•2019, 19.9% of GDP.
•2020, 19.9% of GDP.
•2021, 19.9% of GDP.

BALANCE

Requires the passage of a Balanced Budget Amendment before raising the nation's debt limit.

DEBT CEILING INCREASE CONTINGENT ON BBA

Provides for the President's request for a debt ceiling increase if a qualifying Balanced Budget Amendment passes Congress and is sent to the states for ratification.

I disagree with your assertion, "The right actually DOES have a plan, this is the 2nd plan actually." The House offered a bill, not a plan, for it had zero possibility of passing the Senate and being signed by the president.

The radical Republicans do have a plan, the plan is to do nothing and risk default, hoping to pin the blame on the Democrats and the President. It is a classic example of the end justifies the means. However, I doubt the radicals understand they will lose the debate in the court of public opinion.

OK. So you dont approve of the plan(s) the right offered.
What has the left offered?

 

[yidnar]

Obama simply doesn't have negoiation skills. Take a look back to Obamacare. He wanted to negoiate then too. It was come to the table and then a predictable pattern of a concilliatory statement followed by attacking and withdrawal. He only did this when he was in a position of weakness.

Negoiation seems to mean, caving to his position. Any negoiation should grow out of a plan, which Obama also doesn't have. When has he? It is all campaign style speeches. Predictablly, he appeals to the American people, who he quickly labels as uninformed of the issues.

the dems are starting to doubt there own policy!!!they are letting the house repubs try to straighten out there mess!!!if the repubs plan helps the dems will claim responsibility for it's success.OBAMA IS AN IDIOT WITHOUT HIS TELEPROMPTER!!!I"LL BET HE WILL NOT DEBATE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT!!!I"D LOVE TO SEE RICK PERRY TAKE HIS STUPID ASS TO SCHOOL!!!!LIBS YOUR TIME IS ALMOST OVER!!!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I've made my opinion clear, on the instant issue and on your (too) many posts. You're an extreme partisan, obnoxious and seem to be of below average intelligence - certainly you have no social skills.

The right actually DOES have a plan, this is the 2nd plan actually.

1) you never answered my question

2) How do we get debt? From spending and bad budgets. What did the cut cap and balance bill do? It tries to control spending and bad budgets. The things in the bill are directly related to the debt ceiling

here, it sounds like you haven't read what the proposal was yet

The Cut, Cap, and Balance Act of 2011
CUT

Cuts total spending by $111 billion in FY 2012. The savings is divided as follows:
•Reduce non-security discretionary spending below 2008 levels, which saves $76 billion.
•$35 billion cut to non-veterans, non-Medicare, non-Social Security mandatory spending.
•Defense budget at President's level.

CAP

Total federal spending is scaled back based on the glide path for the fiscal years below:
•2012, 22.5% of GDP.
•2013, 21.7% of GDP.
•2014, 20.8% of GDP.
•2015, 20.2% of GDP.
•2016, 20.2% of GDP.
•2017, 20.0% of GDP.
•2018, 19.7% of GDP.
•2019, 19.9% of GDP.
•2020, 19.9% of GDP.
•2021, 19.9% of GDP.

BALANCE

Requires the passage of a Balanced Budget Amendment before raising the nation's debt limit.

DEBT CEILING INCREASE CONTINGENT ON BBA

Provides for the President's request for a debt ceiling increase if a qualifying Balanced Budget Amendment passes Congress and is sent to the states for ratification.

I disagree with your assertion, "The right actually DOES have a plan, this is the 2nd plan actually." The House offered a bill, not a plan, for it had zero possibility of passing the Senate and being signed by the president.

The radical Republicans do have a plan, the plan is to do nothing and risk default, hoping to pin the blame on the Democrats and the President. It is a classic example of the end justifies the means. However, I doubt the radicals understand they will lose the debate in the court of public opinion.

That cut/cap/balance bill is a very effective plan at reigning in our debt problem. Yes you may not like the plan, yes the senate may have obstructed the plan, and yes the president indicated that if the senate didn't obstruct the plan he would but what are the republicans to do if the dems and the president won't offer up any plan of their own besides to just say "NO" to the republicans?