Who is To Blame in the Debt Negotiations?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by PLYMCO_PILGRIM, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    I made this post below in another thread and it seemed to be well received. So Im making a thread with it looking for challenges to what I said

    If you want to be mad at anyone be mad at the president. The Repubs, Dems, and President all had a deal set a week ago, then obama added another almost 50% on the revenue side AFTER they had an agreement which made the agreement fall apart.

    Or blame the senate for striking down both the ryan bill and the cut, cap, and balance bills......both of which the republicans put forth.


    What proposal, with actual numbers, has the president supplied?
    What bill did the minority dems try to work on with the republicans in the house?
    What specific plan did the democrat senate try to put forward?


    Both sides share blame in getting us here but it seems only one side has done more about it than just talk, and that side is the republican side.
     
  2. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    Obama simply doesn't have negoiation skills. Take a look back to Obamacare. He wanted to negoiate then too. It was come to the table and then a predictable pattern of a concilliatory statement followed by attacking and withdrawal. He only did this when he was in a position of weakness.

    Negoiation seems to mean, caving to his position. Any negoiation should grow out of a plan, which Obama also doesn't have. When has he? It is all campaign style speeches. Predictablly, he appeals to the American people, who he quickly labels as uninformed of the issues.
     
  3. Wry Catcher
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    Wry Catcher Platinum Member

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    Do you actaully believe what you've posted? If so you need a reality check or phsychiatric intervention.

    Obama campigned on hope and change, ending a period of fear mongering by the previous administration. Then reality smacked him in the face. Our economy crashed, not because he did anything, but because of a series of mistakes made by the Bush Administration.

    The New Right doesn't have a plan, the NR has goals which is far different than having a vision. The radical Republicans (RR) want to regain the White House, that and increasing their numbers in the Congress is goal number one. Goal two also has two components - cut taxes and cut regulations; goal three is to privatize social security and medicare.

    Goals are not visions, visions require considering the process (the means) and the ends, both intended and otherwise. Critical thinking is employed and input from supporters and detractors need to be considered before a mission is created. Even then events change and require modifications; adjustments made in timelines, personnel and other resources evaluated on a cost-benefit basis and changed when necessary.

    The NR has done none of this, they have relied on emotion to motivate them as well as personal ambition - a role played by demagogues since the dawn of civilizaiton.
     
  4. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    Obama is a very intelligent and astute man. I believe he could negotiate IF HE WANTED TO. However, his adding in the increase in revenue to a deal that was agreed upon and sabotaging the deal in the process shows me he doesn't want to.

    I mean yes the repubs are petty for backing out over the increase (in my opinion) but Obama is even worse for messing with the agreement that both sides were behind.
     
  5. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    I figured reality was going to hit you pretty hard Wry. Maybe if you run out and make a couple of $1,000 donations to ACORN, ACLU and GLAD you'll feel better. Put them on your credit card.
     
  6. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    what?

    The Ryan Plan
    Cut, Cap, and Balance

    There are 2 plans RIGHT THERE that they passed out of the house! These plans show the repubs are true to their words of at least attempting to be the party that will get the debt and defecit spending under control (and yes we all know how much debt repub and dem presidents have added to the national debt which doesn't disqualify any current reps or dems from trying to change it)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  7. Jarhead
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    Jarhead Gold Member

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    I believe you may be jaded by your ideology.
    Whether you agree with the two plans presented by the GOP (soon to be 3) or not, they are concrete plans.
    We have yet to see a plan presented by the President....and it does not take a genius to undersatnd why....afterall...look what happened to Ryan. His future as a politician has been compromised by all of the negative political rhetoric he recieved for his plan. Obama has very poor ratings right now and there is no doubt that he will be the victim of "bashing" if he presents a plan. I do not condone such behavior...but it is reality.
    But on that note, Obama has opted to put his political career ahead of the need of the country right now...and that is why I do not see him as a true leader....but then again, I doubt any GOP President would have done differently.
     
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  8. Si modo
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    Si modo Diamond Member

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    Just as it takes two to tango, it takes two to play brinkmanship. Both are to blame for it. That doesn't mean I don't think one side is more right, though.
     
  9. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    I think you meant to say debt ceiling negoiations by the way. Democrats don't seem ready to enter a debt negoiation.
     
  10. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    It sure does.

    I just wish that the dems would have started dancing over a month ago too! (Putting forth plans like the ryan or cut/cap/balance)

    Then at least we could compare
     

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