Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Hollie]

I'm supposing that the linked article is referring to the Fatah West Bank component of Palis vs. the Hamas
Gaza component.

It's difficult to determine (other than for bluster and propaganda), what Fatah really jeans or intends when claiming to ''reconsider relations'' with Arab league states.

Ultimately, I have to believe Abbas is having real concerns about the viability of his welfare fraud syndicate. With his Arab neighbors looking to warm relations with Israel, Abbas will lose clout among the minions who expect their lifestyle of privilege and financial support to continue.

Palestinian leadership to reconsider relations with Arab League

Move comes amid Palestinian anger over US-sponsored agreements between Israel and UAE, Bahrain.

www.aljazeera.com

Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammed Ishtayeh has said the government will present a recommendation to President Mahmoud Abbas to reconsider relations with the Arab League.

The move comes amid Palestinian anger about recent US-brokered agreements to normalise relations between Israel and two Gulf nations - the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.

"The Arab League has become a symbol of the Arab inaction," Ishtayeh said during his weekly cabinet meeting on Monday.

Last week, an Arab League ministerial meeting failed to adopt a Palestinian draft condemning the UAE-Israel normalisation agreement that took place in August.

Bahrain then became the fourth Arab country to establish full diplomatic ties with Israel after UAE, Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994).

 

[P F Tinmore]

When Egypt said yes, there was peace.
When Jordan said yes, there was peace.
When UAE & Bahrain said yes, there was peace.
It’s a new era in Israeli-Arab relations.

So, Israel does not occupy any of those.

The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?

A hundred years of occupation will do that.

Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.

Why do you post here when you know so little?

Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.

Indeed, why do you post here when you don't know the facts? The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled by various parties over the last 1,000 years.

Indeed, you continue with your quaint, Disney'fied version of some Arab-Islamist wonderland that never existed.

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

Link?

Indeed, do you need a link to details of the Ottoman Caliphate or something else?

Irrelevant question. The Ottoman Empire fell in 1923. Palestine was under British occupation from 1917 t0 1948.

Irrelevant sidestep. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land area commonly called Palestine for hundreds of years.

Your point?

 

[P F Tinmore]

◈ The effective control maintained by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) was established on 23 October 1917 and terminated on 1 JULY, 1920; upon which the Civil Administration went into effect as agreed by the Allied Powers. It was NOT occupied from 1917 - 1948.

When Britain changed from an occupation to a Mandate it was simply a name change. It maintained military control outside the LoN covenant.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It was brought to my attention that I needed a better citation to answer your question. In this regard, I further submit the following:

The first one is the clarification, Paragraph (a), that the Allied Powers knew that the implementation of the Balfour Declaration was going to impact certain rights of the habitual inhabitance (the non-Jewish Community).​

​

The second clarification, Paragraph (b), shows the distinction between:​

​

◈ Para (b-1): ...Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations)...​

​

◈ Para (b-2): ...application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers...​

​

(See Below)

Didn't mention anything about what you said.

(COMMENT)

I should have cited something simpler for you.

​

It was agreed –​

​

(a) To accept the terms of the Mandates Article as given below with reference to Palestine, on the understanding that there was inserted in the proces-verbal an undertaking by the Mandatory Power that this would not involve the surrender of the rights hitherto enjoyed by the non-Jewish communities in Palestine; this undertaking not to refer to the question of the religious protectorate of France, which had been settled earlier in the previous afternoon by the undertaking given by the French Government that they recognized this protectorate as being at an end.​

​

(b) that the terms of the Mandates Article should be as follows:​

​

The High Contracting Parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognized as independent States, subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the Mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powers.​

​

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.​

​

UNISPAL SOURCE: An Agreement Made at the San Remo Conference 1920​

​

​

Most Respectfully,
R

I already know about all of that foreign interference.

 

[Hollie]

This is a terrible idea. Who beside Pal ambassadors Mahmoud's bag men will be available to carry the suitcases full of cash into the Islamic occupied territories?

Palestinian Authority calls for Arab state boycott of signing ceremony

The PA recalled its ambassadors in Abu Dhabi and Manama in protest of the UAE and Bahrain peace deals with Israel.

www.jpost.com

The PA recalled its ambassadors in Abu Dhabi and Manama in protest of the UAE and Bahrain peace deals with Israel.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: While you use this phrase (foreign interference) and claim you know all about it, I wonder if it is true.

​

​

I already know about all of that foreign interference.

(COMMENT)

I think it is time to define what you mean by foreign interference. The Ottoman Empire relinquished authority to the Allied Powers, and in turn, the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility over the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence. It is more the case that the Arab League in 1948, represented a "Foreign Influence" since the Arab League forces departed their individual sovereign territories and began military operations in a territory under the trusteeship of the UN.

What are you using as a basis for calling the Mandate Period an "Occupation?"


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: While you use this phrase (foreign interference) and claim you know all about it, I wonder if it is true.

View attachment 388873
​

I already know about all of that foreign interference.

(COMMENT)

I think it is time to define what you mean by foreign interference. The Ottoman Empire relinquished authority to the Allied Powers, and in turn, the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility over the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence. It is more the case that the Arab League in 1948, represented a "Foreign Influence" since the Arab League forces departed their individual sovereign territories and began military operations in a territory under the trusteeship of the UN.

What are you using as a basis for calling the Mandate Period an "Occupation?"


Most Respectfully,
R

What are you using as a basis for calling the Mandate Period an "Occupation?"

Britain ruled by military force in opposition to the LoN Covenant.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is more the case that the Arab League in 1948, represented a "Foreign Influence" since the Arab League forces departed their individual sovereign territories and began military operations in a territory under the trusteeship of the UN.

Back to Israeli talking points.

BTW, are you saying that Israel "won" land from the UN ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility over the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence.

The Mandates had no sovereignty over the land in their trust.

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.

 

[Hollie]

the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility over the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence.

The Mandates had no sovereignty over the land in their trust.

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.

You're not understanding the terms you use.

 

[Hollie]

Some solid advise for the Pali enclaves was offered by a UAE representative.

The downside is that the competing Pali enclaves are still bolstered by a welfare system (and Shia Iranian money) that allows for their continued incompetence and obstructionist actions.

Senior UAE Official: ‘Palestinians Need to Want to Help Themselves’

The Palestinians need to understand the normalization deal between the UAE and Israel will aid their cause if they allowed it to.

www.breitbart.com

“They need to want to help themselves as well, and perhaps instead of using the traditional criticisms and curses, they actually look at what we are trying to do,” said Assistant Minister for Cultural and Public Diplomacy Omar Saif Ghobash in an interview.

The agreement “is going to help rather than hinder” the Palestinian cause, he argued.

Ghobash called on the Palestinian Authority to take the opportunity to return to the negotiating table with Israel, noting the Emirati demand that Israel suspend West Bank annexation in return for the deal.

“Using what we managed to achieve, we encourage the Palestinians to reach out to the Israelis and the US authorities and to rethink what might be possible,” he said.

 

[P F Tinmore]

“Using what we managed to achieve, we encourage the Palestinians to reach out to the Israelis and the US authorities and to rethink what might be possible,” he said.

They are, but not through the useless PA.

 

[Ropey]

When Egypt said yes, there was peace.
When Jordan said yes, there was peace.
When UAE & Bahrain said yes, there was peace.
It’s a new era in Israeli-Arab relations.

So, Israel does not occupy any of those.

The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?

A hundred years of occupation will do that.

Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.

Why do you post here when you know so little?

Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.

Indeed, why do you post here when you don't know the facts? The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled by various parties over the last 1,000 years.

Indeed, you continue with your quaint, Disney'fied version of some Arab-Islamist wonderland that never existed.

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

Link?

Indeed, do you need a link to details of the Ottoman Caliphate or something else?

Irrelevant question. The Ottoman Empire fell in 1923. Palestine was under British occupation from 1917 t0 1948.

Irrelevant sidestep. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land area commonly called Palestine for hundreds of years.

Your point?

Israel is reborn.

Palestine, not so much.

 

[Hollie]

“Using what we managed to achieve, we encourage the Palestinians to reach out to the Israelis and the US authorities and to rethink what might be possible,” he said.

They are, but not through the useless PA.

Of course, dear.

 

[Hollie]

The Islamic terrorist enclave of Mahmoud’istan has something called a “Prime Minister”. I know, let’s keep the laughter to a minimum.

At any rate, the guy with the phony title has described the Israel, UAE and Bahrain Peace arrangement as “a black day in the history of the Arab nation and as a defeat to the Arab League.”

In the upside down world of the Pali welfare-dependent enclave, a mutually beneficial peace agreement which will provide stability and economic benefits to the region is a “black day”.

It’s difficult to imagine that Palis are ever going to be able to resolve their diminishing relevance in the region, especially as it seems more likely that additional Arab nations will not want to be left behind as the UAE and Bahrain will likely see economic and security benefits for alliances with Israel.

PA PM: Today is âa black day in the history of the Arab nationâ | PMW Analysis

Prime Minister Shtayyeh said “this day will be added to the Palestinian calendar of pain and Arab calendar of defeats,” adding that the Arab League is a “symbol of Arab ineptitude.”

palwatch.org

PA PM: Today is “a black day in the history of the Arab nation”

Itamar Marcus | Sep 15, 2020

While Israel, vaious Gulf states, and states of the Western world welcome today’s peace treaties between Israel, the UAE and Bahrain, the Palestinian Authority’s Prime Minister speaking at a cabinet session yesterday condemned today’s signing of the peace agreements in Washington DC as ”a black day in the history of the Arab nation and as a defeat to the Arab League.”

Prime Minister Shtayyeh said “this day will be added to the Palestinian calendar of pain and Arab calendar of defeats,” adding that the Arab League is a “symbol of Arab ineptitude.”

In addition, the official PA news agency WAFA reported “that the cabinet was considering recommending that President Mahmoud Abbas ‘revise Palestine’s relations with the Arab League.’”

 

[rylah]

Say the names: Forgotten American victims of Palestinian terror

The murderers: Hamada and Abu Zayed are in Norway, Mahmoud Khader Abed and Zuhair al-Abbasi, in the PA and Jordan, as is Tamimi, Op-ed.

www.israelnationalnews.com

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Nice little quips - but not very informative.

What are you using as a basis for calling the Mandate Period an "Occupation?"

Britain ruled by military force in opposition to the LoN Covenant.

(COMMENT)

The first High Commissioner was Sir Herbert Louis Samuel during the period 1920 (almost immediately at the conclusion of the San Remo Conference) until 1925. Counting the acting High Commissioners (during vacancies), there were 12 High Commissioners of Palestine. Only two of them were Military Officers.

It is more the case that the Arab League in 1948, represented a "Foreign Influence" since the Arab League forces departed their individual sovereign territories and began military operations in a territory under the trusteeship of the UN.

Back to Israeli talking points.

BTW, are you saying that Israel "won" land from the UN ?

(COMMENT)

NO, I did not say that at all. (See the simple chart on the succession in Posting #17446) The Allied Powers which accepted the Rights and Title to the territories (which included Palestine of undetermined boundaries).

"Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;"​

The British were selected by the Allied Power.

the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility for the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence.

The Mandates had no sovereignty over the land in their trust.

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

I don't believe I even used the word "sovereignty." It is "Rights and Title."

Again, you need to check your facts:

From the very beginning, the very first High Commissioner (Sir Herbert Samuel) established the Palestine Police, operating under the British Colonial Police Service. The High Commissioner was required to maintain peace and good order in Palestine. Palestine Order in Council:

"Where this Order or any Ordinance confers a power to make rules, regulations or orders, then, unless a contrary intention appears, the power shall be construed as including a power exercisable in the like manner and subject to the like approval and conditions (if any) to rescind, revoke, amend or vary the rules, regulations or orders."​

Yes, there were military forces there in the Government of Palestine. But those forces were no different from an Activated Home Guard Force under the direction of the High Commissioner. Most governments have such an arrangement. Your home State has such a thing as the "National Guard." There was nothing in the Order in Council or the Mandate that prohibits the arrangement.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

Symbolic of the attitude that prevented the Palis from ever achieving a meaningful existence.

Palestinian militants fire rockets at Israel as historic peace agreement is signed at White House

Two people are wounded in Israel as relations with Arab states are normalized

www.theblaze.com

A rocket attack launched by Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip wounded two people in Israel Tuesday as the Middle East's lone Jewish state signed an agreement to normalize relations with two of its Arab neighbors at the White House. The attack was apparently coordinated to coincide with the signing of the agreement.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The High Commissioner was required to maintain peace and good order in Palestine.

And what a shit job they did.

The last 6 months of their rule, they allowed about 300.000 Palestinians to be expelled, hundreds of villages destroyed, and many massacres to occur.

After 30 years of gross stupidity, they dropped their shit on the UN and ducked out.

 

[P F Tinmore]

“Using what we managed to achieve, we encourage the Palestinians to reach out to the Israelis and the US authorities and to rethink what might be possible,” he said.

They are, but not through the useless PA.

Of course, dear.

Israel is too candy ass to negotiate with anyone who will not sell out.