Who are the fools buying into more drilling?

[Care4all]

The oil in the strategic reserve is paid for at "yesterday's prices." Replacing it at current or future prices will only drive the price up.

tis true gunny, but today's prices are 20% lower than yesterday's prices, so we would be buying the replacement at lower prices....

also, i believe every time we released some of the reserves on to the market in the past, prices went down...thus the relief for us, but also....we repurchased the reserves at lower prices....

there may be other reasons not to release our oil reserves, but i do not believe that rebuying at a higher price is one of them, because i don't believe this will happen....

care

 

[DiamondDave]

really? because it feels to me like there are more super right wing partisan hacks here.

btw, I wasn't always this way. I liked reagan and daddy bush, until daddy bush ran again. I was nearing graduation and he was horrible. or was it carters fault?

anyways, clinton was great and the gop congress he worked with was horrible. dole, newt, barr.....

and then baby bush and the 00-06 gop with delay & hastert. even worse. foley, vetter, craig.

they sure didn't do anything to win me over.

did you vote for clinton? then you are the partisan hack.

I was in the Army in 92 during the first Clinton election... did not like any of the 3 (Perot was qualified for treasury secretary and that was about it, I hated how Bush backtracked and was pansying to the UN, and Clinton was even seen then as a slimeball)... abstained from the presidential portion of the vote... 96, I definitely voted against him after seeing the havoc he was wreaking on the military while I was in.... was a McCain guy in 2000, but definitely voted for Bush over Gore... and in 04 I voted more to keep Kerry out than for total approval of Bush... Voted dem once in 88, as I was ignorant in my youth

And in local elections I do vote DEM on occasion.... as in everything, I weigh the issues and history of candidates on a scorecard against my beliefs and the charges of the constitution

 

[sealybobo]

Bullshit. Just announcing we intend to drill will lower gas prices. Do you think doing nothing while we remain dependent on oil is sheer genius? That begs the question WHO is the fool?

The money invested in foreign oil FAR outweighs the money spent in Iraq. Of course, we're MUCH brighter. We can build windmills up the ass with no regard for what wildlife they disturb, but heabven forbid we touch the 85% of OUR OWN oil reserve because we migh force some fish to fuck a few feet away.

Get a little reality into your argument, huh?

Actually, doing nothing will lower prices. An economist NPR today said that gas is going lower because we aren't driving as much. Something about it turning back to a bull or bear market.

He also said the fed lowering interest rates had something to do with prices and the value of the dollar too.

I could explain how the gop's iraq spending and deregulating the mortgage industry are responsible, but you wouldn't understand.

 

[DiamondDave]

Did you learn about it in pots and pans sales school?

nah.. his lover whispered it in his ear while bobo laid beneath pillow biting

 

[Gunny]

really? because it feels to me like there are more super right wing partisan hacks here.

btw, I wasn't always this way. I liked reagan and daddy bush, until daddy bush ran again. I was nearing graduation and he was horrible. or was it carters fault?

anyways, clinton was great and the gop congress he worked with was horrible. dole, newt, barr.....

and then baby bush and the 00-06 gop with delay & hastert. even worse. foley, vetter, craig.

they sure didn't do anything to win me over.

did you vote for clinton? then you are the partisan hack.

LMAO! If there was ONE conservative on this board, the extremists on the left would swear it was right wing. Been listening to THAT BS for quite awhile .

Guess y'all need to learn to count.

 

[jreeves]

tis true gunny, but today's prices are 20% lower than yesterday's prices, so we would be buying the replacement at lower prices....

also, i believe every time we released some of the reserves on to the market in the past, prices went down...thus the relief for us, but also....we repurchased the reserves at lower prices....

there may be other reasons not to release our oil reserves, but i do not believe that rebuying at a higher price is one of them, because i don't believe this will happen....

care

I don't believe we should release the Strategic oil reserves for a different reason. We haven't developed oil sources here in the United States and we get a vast majority of our oil from hostile governments....

 

[Gunny]

tis true gunny, but today's prices are 20% lower than yesterday's prices, so we would be buying the replacement at lower prices....

also, i believe every time we released some of the reserves on to the market in the past, prices went down...thus the relief for us, but also....we repurchased the reserves at lower prices....

there may be other reasons not to release our oil reserves, but i do not believe that rebuying at a higher price is one of them, because i don't believe this will happen....

care

When was the last time the oil reserve was filled? I didn't mean yesterday as in 24 hours ago. That's why I caveated it with quotations. Even if prices drop a little, they aren't going to drop to what they were even a year ago. So we're STILL resupplying at a higher cost, so it WILL happen.

 

[jreeves]

nah.. his lover whispered it in his ear while bobo laid beneath pillow biting

I get this mental picture of Bobo as Chris Farley on Saturday Night Live, the motivational speaker "who lives in a van down by the river". Don't know if you seen it.
Chris Farley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Popular characters performed by Farley included himself on "The Chris Farley Show" (a talk show in which Farley would often "interview" the guest and get very nervous and ask very simple-minded or irrelevant questions), an over-the-top motivational speaker named Matt Foley (who constantly reminded characters that he lived in "a van down by the river")[9]

 

[Gunny]

Actually, doing nothing will lower prices. An economist NPR today said that gas is going lower because we aren't driving as much. Something about it turning back to a bull or bear market.

He also said the fed lowering interest rates had something to do with prices and the value of the dollar too.

I could explain how the gop's iraq spending and deregulating the mortgage industry are responsible, but you wouldn't understand.

NPR? So THAT's what's wrong with you.

Understand YOU? Probably not. But that doesn't mean shit. I can understand a 6 months old baby better than I can your incoherent gibberish.

 

[sealybobo]

I was in the Army in 92 during the first Clinton election... did not like any of the 3 (Perot was qualified for treasury secretary and that was about it, I hated how Bush backtracked and was pansying to the UN, and Clinton was even seen then as a slimeball)... abstained from the presidential portion of the vote... 96, I definitely voted against him after seeing the havoc he was wreaking on the military while I was in.... was a McCain guy in 2000, but definitely voted for Bush over Gore... and in 04 I voted more to keep Kerry out than for total approval of Bush... Voted dem once in 88, as I was ignorant in my youth

And in local elections I do vote DEM on occasion.... as in everything, I weigh the issues and history of candidates on a scorecard against my beliefs and the charges of the constitution

Now why did you vote against Reagans Vp? Dukakis? lol

I'm greek though so I appreciate that.

We invented democracy you know. lol

And our military was still bad ass when clinton gutted it you know. Do you like the deficit spending we have now? A lot of that is military. We spend more than every other country combined. Probably half of it is corrupt waste/needless.

So the one time you voted dem the guy lost. That's funny. Really curious what you had against Bush 1.

 

[Gunny]

I get this mental picture of Bobo as Chris Farley on Saturday Night Live, the motivational speaker "who lives in a van down by the river". Don't know if you seen it.
Chris Farley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Popular characters performed by Farley included himself on "The Chris Farley Show" (a talk show in which Farley would often "interview" the guest and get very nervous and ask very simple-minded or irrelevant questions), an over-the-top motivational speaker named Matt Foley (who constantly reminded characters that he lived in "a van down by the river")[9]

Really? Kind of reminds me of Stuart Smalley ....

 

[DiamondDave]

Now why did you vote against Reagans Vp? Dukakis? lol

I'm greek though so I appreciate that.

We invented democracy you know. lol

And our military was still bad ass when clinton gutted it you know. Do you like the deficit spending we have now? A lot of that is military. We spend more than every other country combined. Probably half of it is corrupt waste/needless.

So the one time you voted dem the guy lost. That's funny. Really curious what you had against Bush 1.

You had to be in to realize the harm Clinton was doing to the military... ranging from policy, to downsizing, etc

As for why I voted against GHWB, as stated I was young and ignorant in the first election I could vote in... I really did not know any better and did not know enough looking in to the candidates... age has brought me wisdom... knowing what I know now, I would have voted for GHWB, if I would take into account only what was known in 88... I would have still abstained in 92 as none of the candidates were really worthy and none would have been a good choice or lesser of 3 evils... I really detest GHWB and consider him one of the 3 worst presidents (along with Clinton and Carter) of the 2nd 1/2 of the 20th century

 

[Care4all]

When was the last time the oil reserve was filled? I didn't mean yesterday as in 24 hours ago. That's why I caveated it with quotations. Even if prices drop a little, they aren't going to drop to what they were even a year ago. So we're STILL resupplying at a higher cost, so it WILL happen.

you're probably right, though we were buying oil daily, so it would be dollar averaged on the year....

but the price DOES drop from releasing them....like the last time clinton released reserves it dropped to $10 bucks a barrel from around $23 a barrel i believe? maybe it was $20? this was still about a 50% reduction in oil prices for a period of time....during which we rebought them....then eventually they went up....

 

[Gunny]

you're probably right, though we were buying oil daily, so it would be dollar averaged on the year....

but the price DOES drop from releasing them....like the last time clinton released reserves it dropped to $10 bucks a barrel from around $23 a barrel i believe? maybe it was $20? this was still about a 50% reduction in oil prices for a period of time....during which we rebought them....then eventually they went up....

The price of gas to the consumer sure didn't fluctuate that much. And THAT is the whole point here. Oil companies aren't going to drop prices any further than they have to and no way are they going to drop to previous levels.

Any break IS a break, and they count on us buying off on that theory. Last time they increased sharply they dropped off at the end and everyone shut up about it.

 

[Your Overlord]

I know this is hard for some but the fact is expanding drilling into environmentally sensative areas will not lower gas prices.

Not now and not for the foreseeable future. The drilling issue is again a distraction from the fact that we have allowed our dependence on oil to jepordize our security.

The future will belong to whoever first converts to an all electric society/economy. Fossil fuels are a relic from the past, championed by those who love to have us anti up everyday as we fill our gas tanks.

Photovotaics and wind generation are off the shelf technologies just waiting for us to use.

Had we not followed the direction of Bush and Cheney for the last eight years we could have been well on our way to a clean and sustainable future of cheap and abundant energy.

The money spent in Iraq could have been invested in this future, instead it was wasted trying to hold onto the past. That past only enriches the rich while impovershing our whole nation.

It's the dependance of oil from other countries that causes the issues
this post fully ignores reality
and assumes that any sort of alternative is ready or available to bring to market
the main point is to have the least dependance on foreign oil
while not shattering our economy which is primarily based on oil
so the idea is to do
EVERYTHING including alternative energy development and marketing
and drilling EVERYWHERE (like the rest of the world does)
Iraq has nothing to do with the gas price
it's estimated that we have as much oil on American land as the rest of the world
and we are laughing stocks for not developing it
like the russians and canadians and south americans are doing
in a safe and environmentally sound manner

 

[Your Overlord]

LMAO! If there was ONE conservative on this board, the extremists on the left would swear it was right wing. Been listening to THAT BS for quite awhile .

Guess y'all need to learn to count.

I dunno everytime I make a conservative statement I get pummelled with left wing propaganda so much that I don't really know where to begin
and it hardly seems like arguing about it will make any difference

 

[sealybobo]

Really? Kind of reminds me of Stuart Smalley ....

37 yrs old, 5'7, former college wrestler and metro detroit powerlifting champ. Still have the biceps, calves, shoulders, back and chest but I have a gut because i'm 37 and work in an office. I'm pure bred greek so of course i'm genetically more athletic than typical american guys.

you guys probably look like rob schneider, david spade and andy dick. lol.

I see you guys as golfers. not muscular but not fat either.

 

[Care4all]

here's an article writen in 2007 about ANWR...it still can relate to the topic...


Will Drilling the Arctic Refuge Really Solve Our Oil Woes?

Will Drilling the Arctic Refuge
Really Solve Our Oil Woes?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After a year of soaring gas pump prices and high home heating costs, many policymakers and analysts want to tap the oil reserves in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Drilling pristine Alaskan lands is a shortsighted and ineffective strategy tantamount to placing a band-aid over a compound fracture. For long-term solutions that make economic and environmental sense, policymakers should act to increase energy efficiency and the use of renewable energy, and to eliminate fuel-economy loopholes for light trucks and SUVs.

Reaping What We've Sown:
The Current Oil "Crisis"
In 2000, the United States imported 54% of its oil products, sending $180,000 overseas each minute. Depending on imports leaves Americans vulnerable to oil's price volatility. The solution is not more oil, but less dependence on oil.



Drilling the Arctic:
An Unwise Choice
After the energy crisis
of the 1970s, most areas of the economy reduced their reliance on oil substantially. Today, only 2% to 3% of US electricity is generated from oil. Thus oil from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge would have virtually no impact on California's energy crisis or other power-generation issues.

Drilling in the refuge would provide a very short-term solution for a long-term problem. A recent government study estimates that 3.2 billion barrels of oil could be economically recovered from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. This is only enough oil to fuel the US vehicle fleet for a mere 6 months. Alternatively, it could supply US industrial, commercial, residential, and power generation needs for 17 months (and that's at 1998 consumption levels). Why plunder the last true US wilderness for such a paltry return?



Real Transportation Solutions:
Fuel-Efficient SUVs and Alternative Fuels
Transportation is the largest consumer of oil in the country (67%), and thus is highly vulnerable to volatile oil prices. With the fuel economy of new passenger vehicles at a 20-year low, American drivers feel the pinch when gas prices soar. Booming sales of SUVs and light trucks are responsible for this plummeting fuel efficiency.

If we opened the Arctic Refuge today, oil would not being flowing until 2010. But if we start to increase SUV and light truck fuel economy today, by 2015 we could save as much oil as economically recoverable from ANWR over 50 years. And drivers would save $25 billion a year at the pump. To give automakers the incentive to make these technologies available to consumers, policymakers must close the fuel-economy loophole that allows light trucks to burn 33% more gasoline per mile than passenger cars. Affordable technologies are currently available to boost SUV and light truck fuel economy without sacrificing power.

Other, more advanced technologies -- some already in production and others available in the near future -- can make even greater impacts on our oil dependence.

Hybrid engines, which combine an electric motor and gasoline engine, can boost the fuel efficiency of any vehicle.


Fuel cells, which could be in showrooms this decade, provide a zero-emission, gasoline-free method to power all cars and trucks.


Real Energy Solutions: Efficiency and Renewable Energy

A better answer to power outages and price spikes than drilling in the Arctic Refuge is to decrease demand through efficiency and to increase electricity production from renewable sources. Because renewable power does not rely on fossil fuels, it is not subject to the price volatility that plagues power plants, most of which run on coal and natural gas.

By enhancing energy efficiency and acquiring more energy from renewables, the United States could save about 580 million barrels of oil annually by 2010. At this rate, in just 5.5 years we could save as much oil as is economically recoverable from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. In addition, leaving this oil in the ground will keep nearly 1.6 billion tons of carbon dioxide from reaching the atmosphere and contributing to global warming.

Those who call for drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge are looking for quick fixes rather than sustainable solutions. Through fuel-efficient automobiles, energy efficiency, and increased renewable energy, we can lower the demand for oil. Through improved choices, America can avoid the pitfalls of oil overdependence.




Nine Steps to Reduce Oil Consumption
Upgrade fuel-economy standards for SUVs and light trucks.
Offer tax incentives for advanced, fuel-efficient vehicles.
Establish public benefit trust funds to promote energy efficiency.
Reduce industrial energy use through incentives and voluntary agreements.
Adopt more stringent energy codes for new industrial, commercial, and residential buildings.
Remove barriers to development of industrial energy facilities that simultaneously generate steam and electric power.
Provide incentives for using energy-efficient technologies in existing buildings.
Require appliances and other products to be energy efficient.
Implement renewable portfolio standards in electricity markets.

 

[dilloduck]

here's an article writen in 2007 about ANWR...it still can relate to the topic...


Will Drilling the Arctic Refuge Really Solve Our Oil Woes?

Will Drilling the Arctic Refuge
Really Solve Our Oil Woes?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After a year of soaring gas pump prices and high home heating costs, many policymakers and analysts want to tap the oil reserves in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Drilling pristine Alaskan lands is a shortsighted and ineffective strategy tantamount to placing a band-aid over a compound fracture. For long-term solutions that make economic and environmental sense, policymakers should act to increase energy efficiency and the use of renewable energy, and to eliminate fuel-economy loopholes for light trucks and SUVs.

Reaping What We've Sown:
The Current Oil "Crisis"
In 2000, the United States imported 54% of its oil products, sending $180,000 overseas each minute. Depending on imports leaves Americans vulnerable to oil's price volatility. The solution is not more oil, but less dependence on oil.



Drilling the Arctic:
An Unwise Choice
After the energy crisis
of the 1970s, most areas of the economy reduced their reliance on oil substantially. Today, only 2% to 3% of US electricity is generated from oil. Thus oil from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge would have virtually no impact on California's energy crisis or other power-generation issues.

Drilling in the refuge would provide a very short-term solution for a long-term problem. A recent government study estimates that 3.2 billion barrels of oil could be economically recovered from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. This is only enough oil to fuel the US vehicle fleet for a mere 6 months. Alternatively, it could supply US industrial, commercial, residential, and power generation needs for 17 months (and that's at 1998 consumption levels). Why plunder the last true US wilderness for such a paltry return?



Real Transportation Solutions:
Fuel-Efficient SUVs and Alternative Fuels
Transportation is the largest consumer of oil in the country (67%), and thus is highly vulnerable to volatile oil prices. With the fuel economy of new passenger vehicles at a 20-year low, American drivers feel the pinch when gas prices soar. Booming sales of SUVs and light trucks are responsible for this plummeting fuel efficiency.

If we opened the Arctic Refuge today, oil would not being flowing until 2010. But if we start to increase SUV and light truck fuel economy today, by 2015 we could save as much oil as economically recoverable from ANWR over 50 years. And drivers would save $25 billion a year at the pump. To give automakers the incentive to make these technologies available to consumers, policymakers must close the fuel-economy loophole that allows light trucks to burn 33% more gasoline per mile than passenger cars. Affordable technologies are currently available to boost SUV and light truck fuel economy without sacrificing power.

Other, more advanced technologies -- some already in production and others available in the near future -- can make even greater impacts on our oil dependence.

Hybrid engines, which combine an electric motor and gasoline engine, can boost the fuel efficiency of any vehicle.


Fuel cells, which could be in showrooms this decade, provide a zero-emission, gasoline-free method to power all cars and trucks.


Real Energy Solutions: Efficiency and Renewable Energy

A better answer to power outages and price spikes than drilling in the Arctic Refuge is to decrease demand through efficiency and to increase electricity production from renewable sources. Because renewable power does not rely on fossil fuels, it is not subject to the price volatility that plagues power plants, most of which run on coal and natural gas.

By enhancing energy efficiency and acquiring more energy from renewables, the United States could save about 580 million barrels of oil annually by 2010. At this rate, in just 5.5 years we could save as much oil as is economically recoverable from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. In addition, leaving this oil in the ground will keep nearly 1.6 billion tons of carbon dioxide from reaching the atmosphere and contributing to global warming.

Those who call for drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge are looking for quick fixes rather than sustainable solutions. Through fuel-efficient automobiles, energy efficiency, and increased renewable energy, we can lower the demand for oil. Through improved choices, America can avoid the pitfalls of oil overdependence.




Nine Steps to Reduce Oil Consumption
Upgrade fuel-economy standards for SUVs and light trucks.
Offer tax incentives for advanced, fuel-efficient vehicles.
Establish public benefit trust funds to promote energy efficiency.
Reduce industrial energy use through incentives and voluntary agreements.
Adopt more stringent energy codes for new industrial, commercial, and residential buildings.
Remove barriers to development of industrial energy facilities that simultaneously generate steam and electric power.
Provide incentives for using energy-efficient technologies in existing buildings.
Require appliances and other products to be energy efficient.
Implement renewable portfolio standards in electricity markets.

Where does the funding come from to pay for all these incentives ? I save at the pump and pay more in taxes ?

 

[sealybobo]

I dunno everytime I make a conservative statement I get pummelled with left wing propaganda so much that I don't really know where to begin
and it hardly seems like arguing about it will make any difference

nancy pelosi, patriot act, clinton surplus, they stole floria and ohio, racists, lied us into iraq, pro choice, pork, larry craig, vetter, abramoff, foley, rove, delay, 9 11, harry reed, walter reed hospital, support the troops and bring them home, monopolies, tax breaks to the rich, don't ask don't tell, windfall taxes, enron loopholes, anthrax, saddam, surge, offshore drilling.


I didn't want to disappoint you. lol