CDZ White Nationalism; what it is, what drives it and how to render it harmless

[Tank]

Blacks need things like welfare and Affirmative Action to help them keep up with civilization.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Blacks need things like welfare and Affirmative Action to help them keep up with civilization.

You know, there are black people that could OWN you.

just sayin'

 

[Picaro]

Logic simply escaped some people. If one believes blacks are inherently inferior to whites, then it might follow that they should be given a little extra help to succeed. if one believes they are not inherently inferior, and that there are any number of black people from Obama to Condi Rice to Neil Degrasse Tyson who have been VERY successful, then who cling to this outmoded, 1970's style overreaction?

The truth of the matter is that the single biggest impediment to black people's success is attitude. Those who value education, work hard and learn to get along with other people will generally succeed. Those who view all these traits as an indication one is an Uncle Tom won't.

It is this very notion that it is the white man keeping the black man down that results in failure because people do not take responsibility for their actions and project such a sense of hostility that nobody will WANT to hire them. This crutch is the very prison that actually keeping blacks down, and it is other blacks creating it .

I think the single biggest impediment to black people's success is economic disadvantage, and from that, over generations, has flowed all the majority of evils that bedevil the black community. I live in a very white state now, but I work with the poor a lot, and the issues are the same regardless of the color. One of the strongest indicators of whether you will go to college is if your parents went. Fact. Poor kids get looked down on by teachers and other students from the time they enter kindergarten and learn they're losers from the upturned noses they see all around them. That builds attitude. They move around a lot, have less stability in their lives because of economic pressures on the family. By the time they get old enough to make their own decisions they're convinced they won't amount to anything and nothing is going to improve their lot. I see it all the time. It is not just anecdotal. Sure there are those who "break the mold," but many of the successful black people like Condi etc. had middle class parents who expected her to do well. That is all AA is attempting to do--break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.
I don't think the "Uncle Tom" theory is prevalent at all. The biggest black radical on this board, A, is a huge proponent of education and a successful businessman. It's really about money, Dogmaphobe. The black community was too poor, as a group, for hundreds of years, to rub two nickels together, and it takes its toll in many ways.

Since civil rights, the black community has only backtracked as a collective...why is that? because that is not in line with you're theory. Which also is very much anecdotal, especially the looking down at by teachers.

These anecdotal stories are not going to solve the problems the black community is facing. There are actual cause and effect statistics out there pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention too.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Very simple 2 part explanation but one you will most likely deny. The Black dollar was taken out of the Black community. Civil Rights pretty much gave Blacks the right to eat and spend their money in white owned businesses that didnt want to treat them as equals. That Black dollar was power and represented unity in the Black community.

The second thing civil rights did is forced racist politicians to devise less obvious means of discriminating. The result of that is shown in the ramped up presence of law enforcement in Black communities since regular whites didnt want to risk getting beat up or killed trying to control Blacks. This led to the war on drugs, the proven racism in the legal system which sent many would be Black fathers to prison, and ultimately the breakdown of the Black family in the poor areas.

Inspite of all that most Black people are successful despite what the media wants you to believe.

The black dollar theory still does not explain the drop, seems like a non-sequitur unless you have something to flush it out more other than they just started giving their money to white people. And the solution seems pretty easy to solve if that is the case...spend more in the black community.

And while I do have a big problem with the war on drugs, 30% of black males become felons, that's a very high number, sure some of it can be seen as unfair when you compare white weed sellers to black weed sellers, but that in no way makes up for the 30%. And the solution to that is also easy...stop selling drugs. I don't at all agree with the war on drugs, but I still don't use or sell them. I don't agree with our current DUI laws (not saying I think drunk driving should be legal) but I do not go out and drive drunk. There still some personal responsibility that comes into play here, you don't want to get nabbed on drug charges, don't sell drugs. So the easiest way for black people to stop racism by your standards, is to get drugs out of their community.

And none of your explanations offer anything as to why the welfare state is expanding in black community. More so than ever, we have many blacks who need government subsidies. The employment rates for young black men is absolutely abysmal. Why is it we are heading in this direction, despite having a black president? Have the racist (usually made up of stupid people) gotten really good at implementing racism to where they convince young black men not to go out and get jobs?

The 2 part explanation you gave seems to have very clear solutions to them. Why not talk about those?

Its not a theory. Its a proven fact. Before Civil rights the Black dollar circulated in the Black community for a high number of days before leaving it. I forgot the total amount of months but now its less than 6 hours. The solution would be easy to solve if time had stood still and we still had the amount of Black businesses and unity that occurred prior to civil rights. Hopefully this is changing.

Bank Black Movement Is Making A Difference In Black Communities

30% of Black males become felons due to the proven differences in sentencing. I thought everyone already knew about that?

Who told you the welfare state is only expanding in the Black community? Do you have some credible evidence of your claim?



The employment rates for Blacks have always been worse than whites due to the racism in this country. We are headed this way due to white people being incensed that a Black man was a two term POTUS. We know this because most whites voted against Obama in both the elections. Matter of fact whites were the only demographic that voted against Obama.

I do more than just talk about those solutions. I belong to a group that has successfully implemented those solutions.

Yes, as soon as they could do so black people with means took their business to better stores and moved to far less black neighborhoods; they weren't abused by their own as a captive market any more. Good point about how black prey on each other and they prefer white owned businesses and better schools when they can afford them. That's one of the reasons so many have made it into the middle class and the neighborhoods that tolerate the Michael Johnsons and his ilk remain shitholes.

 

[sakinago]

Logic simply escaped some people. If one believes blacks are inherently inferior to whites, then it might follow that they should be given a little extra help to succeed. if one believes they are not inherently inferior, and that there are any number of black people from Obama to Condi Rice to Neil Degrasse Tyson who have been VERY successful, then who cling to this outmoded, 1970's style overreaction?

The truth of the matter is that the single biggest impediment to black people's success is attitude. Those who value education, work hard and learn to get along with other people will generally succeed. Those who view all these traits as an indication one is an Uncle Tom won't.

It is this very notion that it is the white man keeping the black man down that results in failure because people do not take responsibility for their actions and project such a sense of hostility that nobody will WANT to hire them. This crutch is the very prison that actually keeping blacks down, and it is other blacks creating it .

I think the single biggest impediment to black people's success is economic disadvantage, and from that, over generations, has flowed all the majority of evils that bedevil the black community. I live in a very white state now, but I work with the poor a lot, and the issues are the same regardless of the color. One of the strongest indicators of whether you will go to college is if your parents went. Fact. Poor kids get looked down on by teachers and other students from the time they enter kindergarten and learn they're losers from the upturned noses they see all around them. That builds attitude. They move around a lot, have less stability in their lives because of economic pressures on the family. By the time they get old enough to make their own decisions they're convinced they won't amount to anything and nothing is going to improve their lot. I see it all the time. It is not just anecdotal. Sure there are those who "break the mold," but many of the successful black people like Condi etc. had middle class parents who expected her to do well. That is all AA is attempting to do--break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.
I don't think the "Uncle Tom" theory is prevalent at all. The biggest black radical on this board, A, is a huge proponent of education and a successful businessman. It's really about money, Dogmaphobe. The black community was too poor, as a group, for hundreds of years, to rub two nickels together, and it takes its toll in many ways.

Since civil rights, the black community has only backtracked as a collective...why is that? because that is not in line with you're theory. Which also is very much anecdotal, especially the looking down at by teachers.

These anecdotal stories are not going to solve the problems the black community is facing. There are actual cause and effect statistics out there pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention too.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Very simple 2 part explanation but one you will most likely deny. The Black dollar was taken out of the Black community. Civil Rights pretty much gave Blacks the right to eat and spend their money in white owned businesses that didnt want to treat them as equals. That Black dollar was power and represented unity in the Black community.

The second thing civil rights did is forced racist politicians to devise less obvious means of discriminating. The result of that is shown in the ramped up presence of law enforcement in Black communities since regular whites didnt want to risk getting beat up or killed trying to control Blacks. This led to the war on drugs, the proven racism in the legal system which sent many would be Black fathers to prison, and ultimately the breakdown of the Black family in the poor areas.

Inspite of all that most Black people are successful despite what the media wants you to believe.

The black dollar theory still does not explain the drop, seems like a non-sequitur unless you have something to flush it out more other than they just started giving their money to white people. And the solution seems pretty easy to solve if that is the case...spend more in the black community.

And while I do have a big problem with the war on drugs, 30% of black males become felons, that's a very high number, sure some of it can be seen as unfair when you compare white weed sellers to black weed sellers, but that in no way makes up for the 30%. And the solution to that is also easy...stop selling drugs. I don't at all agree with the war on drugs, but I still don't use or sell them. I don't agree with our current DUI laws (not saying I think drunk driving should be legal) but I do not go out and drive drunk. There still some personal responsibility that comes into play here, you don't want to get nabbed on drug charges, don't sell drugs. So the easiest way for black people to stop racism by your standards, is to get drugs out of their community.

And none of your explanations offer anything as to why the welfare state is expanding in black community. More so than ever, we have many blacks who need government subsidies. The employment rates for young black men is absolutely abysmal. Why is it we are heading in this direction, despite having a black president? Have the racist (usually made up of stupid people) gotten really good at implementing racism to where they convince young black men not to go out and get jobs?

The 2 part explanation you gave seems to have very clear solutions to them. Why not talk about those?

Its not a theory. Its a proven fact. Before Civil rights the Black dollar circulated in the Black community for a high number of days before leaving it. I forgot the total amount of months but now its less than 6 hours. The solution would be easy to solve if time had stood still and we still had the amount of Black businesses and unity that occurred prior to civil rights. Hopefully this is changing.

Bank Black Movement Is Making A Difference In Black Communities

30% of Black males become felons due to the proven differences in sentencing. I thought everyone already knew about that?

Who told you the welfare state is only expanding in the Black community? Do you have some credible evidence of your claim?



The employment rates for Blacks have always been worse than whites due to the racism in this country. We are headed this way due to white people being incensed that a Black man was a two term POTUS. We know this because most whites voted against Obama in both the elections. Matter of fact whites were the only demographic that voted against Obama.

I do more than just talk about those solutions. I belong to a group that has successfully implemented those solutions.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/econo...ecord-levels-after-50-years-of-war-on-poverty


How the Welfare State Has Devastated African Americans - Discover the Networks

These two are a bit lengthy but good reads

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Poverty and spending over the years

Welfare Statistics by Race, State and Payment | BrandonGaille.com

I don't attack welfare because I want to cut the legs out from under blacks or poor people in general (as you can see the percentages of whites and blacks on welfare are pretty close, but still expanding). I don't do so because I'm jealous that my tax dollars go to them while they get to stay home. This is not what I'm arguing about. I'm going after welfare because we throw trillions of dollars at the government who turns it into chicken scratch for the poor. But just enough chicken scratch to get by. The more people who become dependent on welfare, the more people will vote to continue and expand welfare, not all, but it still encourages it. These programs are only helping politicians stay in power, they are doing nothing to actually help the poor get out of poverty. I don't want to see a population of 61 million people on welfare, I want those people to be successful too, I want them to go out and start business that better both my life and theirs. I want them to buy their own dream houses, buy a new driveway from my brother. We have been doing the same crazy thing for 50 years, and throwing more and more money at the problem with no results. In recent years we have almost exponentially increased the money we throw at it, still with no progress. Remember the old saying of the definition of insanity? The war on poverty is failing just as bad as the war on drugs. Throwing money at poverty and education is clearly not working!! But it does make for good campaign ads. Our politicians know this, they're just banking on the fact that we don't figure it out, and STOP giving them 2 out of 5 days of our paychecks. And now that we are starting to figure it out, there feeding us the line of blame whitey and blame the CEOs for the cesspool they have created...with the help of their CEO donors. It's all an elaborate slight of hand, point the finger to the left and move right.

I'm also glad your participating in being a part of the solution. I have no problem with keeping the black dollar black, just like I have no problem with people buying local. I also think that black people have the right to say no to white patrons (although I don't agree with it, nor believe it to be good business practice, nor suggest that's what you are saying). But it is their right. But that's a whole different convo

 

[Asclepias]

I think the single biggest impediment to black people's success is economic disadvantage, and from that, over generations, has flowed all the majority of evils that bedevil the black community. I live in a very white state now, but I work with the poor a lot, and the issues are the same regardless of the color. One of the strongest indicators of whether you will go to college is if your parents went. Fact. Poor kids get looked down on by teachers and other students from the time they enter kindergarten and learn they're losers from the upturned noses they see all around them. That builds attitude. They move around a lot, have less stability in their lives because of economic pressures on the family. By the time they get old enough to make their own decisions they're convinced they won't amount to anything and nothing is going to improve their lot. I see it all the time. It is not just anecdotal. Sure there are those who "break the mold," but many of the successful black people like Condi etc. had middle class parents who expected her to do well. That is all AA is attempting to do--break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.
I don't think the "Uncle Tom" theory is prevalent at all. The biggest black radical on this board, A, is a huge proponent of education and a successful businessman. It's really about money, Dogmaphobe. The black community was too poor, as a group, for hundreds of years, to rub two nickels together, and it takes its toll in many ways.

Since civil rights, the black community has only backtracked as a collective...why is that? because that is not in line with you're theory. Which also is very much anecdotal, especially the looking down at by teachers.

These anecdotal stories are not going to solve the problems the black community is facing. There are actual cause and effect statistics out there pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention too.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Very simple 2 part explanation but one you will most likely deny. The Black dollar was taken out of the Black community. Civil Rights pretty much gave Blacks the right to eat and spend their money in white owned businesses that didnt want to treat them as equals. That Black dollar was power and represented unity in the Black community.

The second thing civil rights did is forced racist politicians to devise less obvious means of discriminating. The result of that is shown in the ramped up presence of law enforcement in Black communities since regular whites didnt want to risk getting beat up or killed trying to control Blacks. This led to the war on drugs, the proven racism in the legal system which sent many would be Black fathers to prison, and ultimately the breakdown of the Black family in the poor areas.

Inspite of all that most Black people are successful despite what the media wants you to believe.

The black dollar theory still does not explain the drop, seems like a non-sequitur unless you have something to flush it out more other than they just started giving their money to white people. And the solution seems pretty easy to solve if that is the case...spend more in the black community.

And while I do have a big problem with the war on drugs, 30% of black males become felons, that's a very high number, sure some of it can be seen as unfair when you compare white weed sellers to black weed sellers, but that in no way makes up for the 30%. And the solution to that is also easy...stop selling drugs. I don't at all agree with the war on drugs, but I still don't use or sell them. I don't agree with our current DUI laws (not saying I think drunk driving should be legal) but I do not go out and drive drunk. There still some personal responsibility that comes into play here, you don't want to get nabbed on drug charges, don't sell drugs. So the easiest way for black people to stop racism by your standards, is to get drugs out of their community.

And none of your explanations offer anything as to why the welfare state is expanding in black community. More so than ever, we have many blacks who need government subsidies. The employment rates for young black men is absolutely abysmal. Why is it we are heading in this direction, despite having a black president? Have the racist (usually made up of stupid people) gotten really good at implementing racism to where they convince young black men not to go out and get jobs?

The 2 part explanation you gave seems to have very clear solutions to them. Why not talk about those?

Its not a theory. Its a proven fact. Before Civil rights the Black dollar circulated in the Black community for a high number of days before leaving it. I forgot the total amount of months but now its less than 6 hours. The solution would be easy to solve if time had stood still and we still had the amount of Black businesses and unity that occurred prior to civil rights. Hopefully this is changing.

Bank Black Movement Is Making A Difference In Black Communities

30% of Black males become felons due to the proven differences in sentencing. I thought everyone already knew about that?

Who told you the welfare state is only expanding in the Black community? Do you have some credible evidence of your claim?



The employment rates for Blacks have always been worse than whites due to the racism in this country. We are headed this way due to white people being incensed that a Black man was a two term POTUS. We know this because most whites voted against Obama in both the elections. Matter of fact whites were the only demographic that voted against Obama.

I do more than just talk about those solutions. I belong to a group that has successfully implemented those solutions.

Welfare Hits Record Levels After 50 Years of War on Poverty


How the Welfare State Has Devastated African Americans - Discover the Networks

These two are a bit lengthy but good reads

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Poverty and spending over the years

Welfare Statistics by Race, State and Payment | BrandonGaille.com

I don't attack welfare because I want to cut the legs out from under blacks or poor people in general (as you can see the percentages of whites and blacks on welfare are pretty close, but still expanding). I don't do so because I'm jealous that my tax dollars go to them while they get to stay home. This is not what I'm arguing about. I'm going after welfare because we throw trillions of dollars at the government who turns it into chicken scratch for the poor. But just enough chicken scratch to get by. The more people who become dependent on welfare, the more people will vote to continue and expand welfare, not all, but it still encourages it. These programs are only helping politicians stay in power, they are doing nothing to actually help the poor get out of poverty. I don't want to see a population of 61 million people on welfare, I want those people to be successful too, I want them to go out and start business that better both my life and theirs. I want them to buy their own dream houses, buy a new driveway from my brother. We have been doing the same crazy thing for 50 years, and throwing more and more money at the problem with no results. In recent years we have almost exponentially increased the money we throw at it, still with no progress. Remember the old saying of the definition of insanity? The war on poverty is failing just as bad as the war on drugs. Throwing money at poverty and education is clearly not working!! But it does make for good campaign ads. Our politicians know this, they're just banking on the fact that we don't figure it out, and STOP giving them 2 out of 5 days of our paychecks. And now that we are starting to figure it out, there feeding us the line of blame whitey and blame the CEOs for the cesspool they have created...with the help of their CEO donors. It's all an elaborate slight of hand, point the finger to the left and move right.

I'm also glad your participating in being a part of the solution. I have no problem with keeping the black dollar black, just like I have no problem with people buying local. I also think that black people have the right to say no to white patrons (although I don't agree with it, nor believe it to be good business practice, nor suggest that's what you are saying). But it is their right. But that's a whole different convo

I grew up in the ghetto. I saw the mentality and trust me no one is content with the chicken feed welfare provides. For some it is their only legal means of income. The largest problems are hope and opportunity. They simply dont see a way out or they try and run into racism and then give up. if someone is simply throwing money then it will only reach a few people. What is needed is a bottom up approach that is aided by money. Kids need to be taught who and what they are. Where their ancestors came from and what their ancestors accomplished. They need to be taught how to succeed (financially and educationally). Once you have this foundation in place they dont quit in the face of racism. They find a way to make it happen. I had it done to me and I have seen the results of doing it to other children that are now successful and come from the same ghettos i came from. I know CEO's that donate and have programs that benefit economically disadvantaged youth. One of my mentors has a program that pays for preschool for all of his employees children and when they graduate high school they get a scholarship to college. Unfortunately he is only one of few that give back like that.

I dont see why someone would say no to white patrons unless you knew they were racists. I dont have a problem with whites being patrons. I have a problem with the Black dollar leaving the Black communities so fast. When that happens you know that there is going to be less money in your community to support it because no one else is going to spend money in your community. I love how the Chinese do it. Their money rarely leaves their communities here in the US.

FYI. Looks like that stat about 6 hours is wrong as it cannot be verified. However, I know its hard as hell finding Black businesses to patronize and i consciously attempt to spend my money with them before going elsewhere.

 

[sakinago]

Since civil rights, the black community has only backtracked as a collective...why is that? because that is not in line with you're theory. Which also is very much anecdotal, especially the looking down at by teachers.

These anecdotal stories are not going to solve the problems the black community is facing. There are actual cause and effect statistics out there pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention too.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Very simple 2 part explanation but one you will most likely deny. The Black dollar was taken out of the Black community. Civil Rights pretty much gave Blacks the right to eat and spend their money in white owned businesses that didnt want to treat them as equals. That Black dollar was power and represented unity in the Black community.

The second thing civil rights did is forced racist politicians to devise less obvious means of discriminating. The result of that is shown in the ramped up presence of law enforcement in Black communities since regular whites didnt want to risk getting beat up or killed trying to control Blacks. This led to the war on drugs, the proven racism in the legal system which sent many would be Black fathers to prison, and ultimately the breakdown of the Black family in the poor areas.

Inspite of all that most Black people are successful despite what the media wants you to believe.

The black dollar theory still does not explain the drop, seems like a non-sequitur unless you have something to flush it out more other than they just started giving their money to white people. And the solution seems pretty easy to solve if that is the case...spend more in the black community.

And while I do have a big problem with the war on drugs, 30% of black males become felons, that's a very high number, sure some of it can be seen as unfair when you compare white weed sellers to black weed sellers, but that in no way makes up for the 30%. And the solution to that is also easy...stop selling drugs. I don't at all agree with the war on drugs, but I still don't use or sell them. I don't agree with our current DUI laws (not saying I think drunk driving should be legal) but I do not go out and drive drunk. There still some personal responsibility that comes into play here, you don't want to get nabbed on drug charges, don't sell drugs. So the easiest way for black people to stop racism by your standards, is to get drugs out of their community.

And none of your explanations offer anything as to why the welfare state is expanding in black community. More so than ever, we have many blacks who need government subsidies. The employment rates for young black men is absolutely abysmal. Why is it we are heading in this direction, despite having a black president? Have the racist (usually made up of stupid people) gotten really good at implementing racism to where they convince young black men not to go out and get jobs?

The 2 part explanation you gave seems to have very clear solutions to them. Why not talk about those?

Its not a theory. Its a proven fact. Before Civil rights the Black dollar circulated in the Black community for a high number of days before leaving it. I forgot the total amount of months but now its less than 6 hours. The solution would be easy to solve if time had stood still and we still had the amount of Black businesses and unity that occurred prior to civil rights. Hopefully this is changing.

Bank Black Movement Is Making A Difference In Black Communities

30% of Black males become felons due to the proven differences in sentencing. I thought everyone already knew about that?

Who told you the welfare state is only expanding in the Black community? Do you have some credible evidence of your claim?



The employment rates for Blacks have always been worse than whites due to the racism in this country. We are headed this way due to white people being incensed that a Black man was a two term POTUS. We know this because most whites voted against Obama in both the elections. Matter of fact whites were the only demographic that voted against Obama.

I do more than just talk about those solutions. I belong to a group that has successfully implemented those solutions.

Welfare Hits Record Levels After 50 Years of War on Poverty


How the Welfare State Has Devastated African Americans - Discover the Networks

These two are a bit lengthy but good reads

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Poverty and spending over the years

Welfare Statistics by Race, State and Payment | BrandonGaille.com

I don't attack welfare because I want to cut the legs out from under blacks or poor people in general (as you can see the percentages of whites and blacks on welfare are pretty close, but still expanding). I don't do so because I'm jealous that my tax dollars go to them while they get to stay home. This is not what I'm arguing about. I'm going after welfare because we throw trillions of dollars at the government who turns it into chicken scratch for the poor. But just enough chicken scratch to get by. The more people who become dependent on welfare, the more people will vote to continue and expand welfare, not all, but it still encourages it. These programs are only helping politicians stay in power, they are doing nothing to actually help the poor get out of poverty. I don't want to see a population of 61 million people on welfare, I want those people to be successful too, I want them to go out and start business that better both my life and theirs. I want them to buy their own dream houses, buy a new driveway from my brother. We have been doing the same crazy thing for 50 years, and throwing more and more money at the problem with no results. In recent years we have almost exponentially increased the money we throw at it, still with no progress. Remember the old saying of the definition of insanity? The war on poverty is failing just as bad as the war on drugs. Throwing money at poverty and education is clearly not working!! But it does make for good campaign ads. Our politicians know this, they're just banking on the fact that we don't figure it out, and STOP giving them 2 out of 5 days of our paychecks. And now that we are starting to figure it out, there feeding us the line of blame whitey and blame the CEOs for the cesspool they have created...with the help of their CEO donors. It's all an elaborate slight of hand, point the finger to the left and move right.

I'm also glad your participating in being a part of the solution. I have no problem with keeping the black dollar black, just like I have no problem with people buying local. I also think that black people have the right to say no to white patrons (although I don't agree with it, nor believe it to be good business practice, nor suggest that's what you are saying). But it is their right. But that's a whole different convo

I grew up in the ghetto. I saw the mentality and trust me no one is content with the chicken feed welfare provides. For some it is their only legal means of income. The largest problems are hope and opportunity. They simply dont see a way out or they try and run into racism and then give up. if someone is simply throwing money then it will only reach a few people. What is needed is a bottom up approach that is aided by money. Kids need to be taught who and what they are. Where their ancestors came from and what their ancestors accomplished. They need to be taught how to succeed (financially and educationally). Once you have this foundation in place they dont quit in the face of racism. They find a way to make it happen. I had it done to me and I have seen the results of doing it to other children that are now successful and come from the same ghettos i came from. I know CEO's that donate and have programs that benefit economically disadvantaged youth. One of my mentors has a program that pays for preschool for all of his employees children and when they graduate high school they get a scholarship to college. Unfortunately he is only one of few that give back like that.

I dont see why someone would say no to white patrons unless you knew they were racists. I dont have a problem with whites being patrons. I have a problem with the Black dollar leaving the Black communities so fast. When that happens you know that there is going to be less money in your community to support it because no one else is going to spend money in your community. I love how the Chinese do it. Their money rarely leaves their communities here in the US.

Well this we agree on. I don't have a problem with a safety net, I have a problem with this system. And how this system is skewed against married couple, and how it's failing the family structure (which does provide a strong advantage). I don't think it takes a village, I think it takes a family, BC no one cares about your kids as much as you do. No one else will go as far for your kids as much as you will. There are times when the village (in the sense of the community and neighbors) can come to you're aid in a big way, but the village (in a government sense) is not at all effective at doing this, and only see people as statistics and demographics, not the individuals they are.

And I wasn't condemning all CEOs because many of them aren't bad people and many have earned the money honestly, without cronyism. And many of them do give A LOT back to the community. There are a few bad actors out there, like there are in any community.

And I agree that if a skinhead walks in, any business owner should have the right to refuse service. Just like a member of Westboro baptist walks in an owner should have the right to refuse service. Sadly that means that a skinhead business owner could do the same, I don't like it and I think their business would fail quickly. But I do believe in property rights, and that government should not have a say in how you operate and serve.

 

[OldLady]

I don't know how racial discrimination benefits me or anyone in my decidedly WASP family, but I've never been aware of losing out on a promotion or getting into the school of choice for me or anyone in my family. There are plenty of colleges and there are plenty of jobs in the sea, so to speak. If you don't get the promotion you want, go elsewhere. If you don't get into one college, go to another. What's the big deal? I highly doubt most people who "lost" a space at the table for being white actually know that is the reason, anyway. Sure, there have been jobs I didn't bother applying for because it said "Minorities encouraged to apply." Apply somewhere else.

Which has nothing to do with the simple FACT that the law as it currently exists discriminates against whites in a number of ways BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

That is simply a FACT whether you care to 'notice it' or not.

Logic simply escaped some people. If one believes blacks are inherently inferior to whites, then it might follow that they should be given a little extra help to succeed. if one believes they are not inherently inferior, and that there are any number of black people from Obama to Condi Rice to Neil Degrasse Tyson who have been VERY successful, then who cling to this outmoded, 1970's style overreaction?

The truth of the matter is that the single biggest impediment to black people's success is attitude. Those who value education, work hard and learn to get along with other people will generally succeed. Those who view all these traits as an indication one is an Uncle Tom won't.

It is this very notion that it is the white man keeping the black man down that results in failure because people do not take responsibility for their actions and project such a sense of hostility that nobody will WANT to hire them. This crutch is the very prison that actually keeping blacks down, and it is other blacks creating it .

I think the single biggest impediment to black people's success is economic disadvantage, and from that, over generations, has flowed all the majority of evils that bedevil the black community. I live in a very white state now, but I work with the poor a lot, and the issues are the same regardless of the color. One of the strongest indicators of whether you will go to college is if your parents went. Fact. Poor kids get looked down on by teachers and other students from the time they enter kindergarten and learn they're losers from the upturned noses they see all around them. That builds attitude. They move around a lot, have less stability in their lives because of economic pressures on the family. By the time they get old enough to make their own decisions they're convinced they won't amount to anything and nothing is going to improve their lot. I see it all the time. It is not just anecdotal. Sure there are those who "break the mold," but many of the successful black people like Condi etc. had middle class parents who expected her to do well. That is all AA is attempting to do--break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.
I don't think the "Uncle Tom" theory is prevalent at all. The biggest black radical on this board, A, is a huge proponent of education and a successful businessman. It's really about money, Dogmaphobe. The black community was too poor, as a group, for hundreds of years, to rub two nickels together, and it takes its toll in many ways.

Since civil rights, the black community has only backtracked as a collective...why is that? because that is not in line with you're theory. Which also is very much anecdotal, especially the looking down at by teachers.

These anecdotal stories are not going to solve the problems the black community is facing. There are actual cause and effect statistics out there pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention too.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I don't mind admitting if I'm wrong, but I would like to know what "actual case and effect statistics" are that are pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention to. There are certainly a mountain of statistics showing that poverty breeds both anti-social behavior and poor economic achievement. A cycle that takes thought, effort and time to break.

 

[OldLady]

I don't know how racial discrimination benefits me or anyone in my decidedly WASP family, but I've never been aware of losing out on a promotion or getting into the school of choice for me or anyone in my family. There are plenty of colleges and there are plenty of jobs in the sea, so to speak. If you don't get the promotion you want, go elsewhere. If you don't get into one college, go to another. What's the big deal? I highly doubt most people who "lost" a space at the table for being white actually know that is the reason, anyway. Sure, there have been jobs I didn't bother applying for because it said "Minorities encouraged to apply." Apply somewhere else.

Which has nothing to do with the simple FACT that the law as it currently exists discriminates against whites in a number of ways BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

That is simply a FACT whether you care to 'notice it' or not.

Logic simply escaped some people. If one believes blacks are inherently inferior to whites, then it might follow that they should be given a little extra help to succeed. if one believes they are not inherently inferior, and that there are any number of black people from Obama to Condi Rice to Neil Degrasse Tyson who have been VERY successful, then who cling to this outmoded, 1970's style overreaction?

The truth of the matter is that the single biggest impediment to black people's success is attitude. Those who value education, work hard and learn to get along with other people will generally succeed. Those who view all these traits as an indication one is an Uncle Tom won't.

It is this very notion that it is the white man keeping the black man down that results in failure because people do not take responsibility for their actions and project such a sense of hostility that nobody will WANT to hire them. This crutch is the very prison that actually keeping blacks down, and it is other blacks creating it .

I think the single biggest impediment to black people's success is economic disadvantage, and from that, over generations, has flowed all the majority of evils that bedevil the black community. I live in a very white state now, but I work with the poor a lot, and the issues are the same regardless of the color. One of the strongest indicators of whether you will go to college is if your parents went. Fact. Poor kids get looked down on by teachers and other students from the time they enter kindergarten and learn they're losers from the upturned noses they see all around them. That builds attitude. They move around a lot, have less stability in their lives because of economic pressures on the family. By the time they get old enough to make their own decisions they're convinced they won't amount to anything and nothing is going to improve their lot. I see it all the time. It is not just anecdotal. Sure there are those who "break the mold," but many of the successful black people like Condi etc. had middle class parents who expected her to do well. That is all AA is attempting to do--break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.
I don't think the "Uncle Tom" theory is prevalent at all. The biggest black radical on this board, A, is a huge proponent of education and a successful businessman. It's really about money, Dogmaphobe. The black community was too poor, as a group, for hundreds of years, to rub two nickels together, and it takes its toll in many ways.

This is why I focus on the problem of single, teenage mothers....they are the primary driver of crime in our country......generations of boys, raised by single, teenage mothers with no adult men to teach them how to be men......the people in jail...single teenage mother households.....with criminal and abusive boyfriends and no fathers....

Fix this problem and our crime rate plummets...this is not a race issue, this is a children raising children issue....

ARRGGHH!!! It absolutely infuriates me every time you pull out that old chestnut. Stop blaming the victims, 2AGuy.

 

[Asclepias]

I don't know how racial discrimination benefits me or anyone in my decidedly WASP family, but I've never been aware of losing out on a promotion or getting into the school of choice for me or anyone in my family. There are plenty of colleges and there are plenty of jobs in the sea, so to speak. If you don't get the promotion you want, go elsewhere. If you don't get into one college, go to another. What's the big deal? I highly doubt most people who "lost" a space at the table for being white actually know that is the reason, anyway. Sure, there have been jobs I didn't bother applying for because it said "Minorities encouraged to apply." Apply somewhere else.

Which has nothing to do with the simple FACT that the law as it currently exists discriminates against whites in a number of ways BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

That is simply a FACT whether you care to 'notice it' or not.

Logic simply escaped some people. If one believes blacks are inherently inferior to whites, then it might follow that they should be given a little extra help to succeed. if one believes they are not inherently inferior, and that there are any number of black people from Obama to Condi Rice to Neil Degrasse Tyson who have been VERY successful, then who cling to this outmoded, 1970's style overreaction?

The truth of the matter is that the single biggest impediment to black people's success is attitude. Those who value education, work hard and learn to get along with other people will generally succeed. Those who view all these traits as an indication one is an Uncle Tom won't.

It is this very notion that it is the white man keeping the black man down that results in failure because people do not take responsibility for their actions and project such a sense of hostility that nobody will WANT to hire them. This crutch is the very prison that actually keeping blacks down, and it is other blacks creating it .

I think the single biggest impediment to black people's success is economic disadvantage, and from that, over generations, has flowed all the majority of evils that bedevil the black community. I live in a very white state now, but I work with the poor a lot, and the issues are the same regardless of the color. One of the strongest indicators of whether you will go to college is if your parents went. Fact. Poor kids get looked down on by teachers and other students from the time they enter kindergarten and learn they're losers from the upturned noses they see all around them. That builds attitude. They move around a lot, have less stability in their lives because of economic pressures on the family. By the time they get old enough to make their own decisions they're convinced they won't amount to anything and nothing is going to improve their lot. I see it all the time. It is not just anecdotal. Sure there are those who "break the mold," but many of the successful black people like Condi etc. had middle class parents who expected her to do well. That is all AA is attempting to do--break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.
I don't think the "Uncle Tom" theory is prevalent at all. The biggest black radical on this board, A, is a huge proponent of education and a successful businessman. It's really about money, Dogmaphobe. The black community was too poor, as a group, for hundreds of years, to rub two nickels together, and it takes its toll in many ways.

This is why I focus on the problem of single, teenage mothers....they are the primary driver of crime in our country......generations of boys, raised by single, teenage mothers with no adult men to teach them how to be men......the people in jail...single teenage mother households.....with criminal and abusive boyfriends and no fathers....

Fix this problem and our crime rate plummets...this is not a race issue, this is a children raising children issue....

ARRGGHH!!! It absolutely infuriates me every time you pull out that old chestnut. Stop blaming the victims, 2AGuy.

i agree. Its a short sighted and simplistic view of the problem. "If those _________ would only do this then everything would be fine." That never works until you identify the variables that placed the people in that situation.

 

[OldLady]

I don't know how racial discrimination benefits me or anyone in my decidedly WASP family, but I've never been aware of losing out on a promotion or getting into the school of choice for me or anyone in my family. There are plenty of colleges and there are plenty of jobs in the sea, so to speak. If you don't get the promotion you want, go elsewhere. If you don't get into one college, go to another. What's the big deal? I highly doubt most people who "lost" a space at the table for being white actually know that is the reason, anyway. Sure, there have been jobs I didn't bother applying for because it said "Minorities encouraged to apply." Apply somewhere else.

Which has nothing to do with the simple FACT that the law as it currently exists discriminates against whites in a number of ways BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

That is simply a FACT whether you care to 'notice it' or not.

Logic simply escaped some people. If one believes blacks are inherently inferior to whites, then it might follow that they should be given a little extra help to succeed. if one believes they are not inherently inferior, and that there are any number of black people from Obama to Condi Rice to Neil Degrasse Tyson who have been VERY successful, then who cling to this outmoded, 1970's style overreaction?

The truth of the matter is that the single biggest impediment to black people's success is attitude. Those who value education, work hard and learn to get along with other people will generally succeed. Those who view all these traits as an indication one is an Uncle Tom won't.

It is this very notion that it is the white man keeping the black man down that results in failure because people do not take responsibility for their actions and project such a sense of hostility that nobody will WANT to hire them. This crutch is the very prison that actually keeping blacks down, and it is other blacks creating it .

I think the single biggest impediment to black people's success is economic disadvantage, and from that, over generations, has flowed all the majority of evils that bedevil the black community. I live in a very white state now, but I work with the poor a lot, and the issues are the same regardless of the color. One of the strongest indicators of whether you will go to college is if your parents went. Fact. Poor kids get looked down on by teachers and other students from the time they enter kindergarten and learn they're losers from the upturned noses they see all around them. That builds attitude. They move around a lot, have less stability in their lives because of economic pressures on the family. By the time they get old enough to make their own decisions they're convinced they won't amount to anything and nothing is going to improve their lot. I see it all the time. It is not just anecdotal. Sure there are those who "break the mold," but many of the successful black people like Condi etc. had middle class parents who expected her to do well. That is all AA is attempting to do--break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.
I don't think the "Uncle Tom" theory is prevalent at all. The biggest black radical on this board, A, is a huge proponent of education and a successful businessman. It's really about money, Dogmaphobe. The black community was too poor, as a group, for hundreds of years, to rub two nickels together, and it takes its toll in many ways.

What you say is true - and it is true regardless of race. AA attempts to break the cycle for a specific group of people while ignoring those that do not fit the proper mold. Even though those people that are in similar poverty stricken situations face very similar challenges.

Again, trying to solve a perceived problem of racism with an openly racist policy.

We have an excellent program here, have had for decades, helping kids be the first in their families to go to college. The programs are growing, now including funds and all kinds of supports for single parents who want to go on to post secondary training. Around here, we're 97% white, so I can't agree that the government is somehow ignoring poor white people.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What you say is true - and it is true regardless of race. AA attempts to break the cycle for a specific group of people while ignoring those that do not fit the proper mold. Even though those people that are in similar poverty stricken situations face very similar challenges.
Again, trying to solve a perceived problem of racism with an openly racist policy.

We have an excellent program here, have had for decades, helping kids be the first in their families to go to college. The programs are growing, now including funds and all kinds of supports for single parents who want to go on to post secondary training. Around here, we're 97% white, so I can't agree that the government is somehow ignoring poor white people.

You are missing the point. It is not that no white people are being helped, but that AA is engaging in racism by prioritizing minorities by law above the interests of whites by using quotas, which is discriminatory and unjust.

Your counter-point that whites are still getting help is beside that point.

 

[Asclepias]

What you say is true - and it is true regardless of race. AA attempts to break the cycle for a specific group of people while ignoring those that do not fit the proper mold. Even though those people that are in similar poverty stricken situations face very similar challenges.
Again, trying to solve a perceived problem of racism with an openly racist policy.

We have an excellent program here, have had for decades, helping kids be the first in their families to go to college. The programs are growing, now including funds and all kinds of supports for single parents who want to go on to post secondary training. Around here, we're 97% white, so I can't agree that the government is somehow ignoring poor white people.

You are missing the point. It is not that no white people are being helped, but that AA is engaging in racism by prioritizing minorities by law above the interests of whites by using quotas, which is discriminatory and unjust.

Your counter-point that whites are still getting help is beside that point.

Whites prioritized whites for centuries way worse than what is going on now. That created the gap in economic achievement and if whites have to sit on the back burner to rectify that then thats really too bad. Blame your ancestors.

The problem with your logic is that the group that benefits the most from AA is white females.

 

[sakinago]

I don't know how racial discrimination benefits me or anyone in my decidedly WASP family, but I've never been aware of losing out on a promotion or getting into the school of choice for me or anyone in my family. There are plenty of colleges and there are plenty of jobs in the sea, so to speak. If you don't get the promotion you want, go elsewhere. If you don't get into one college, go to another. What's the big deal? I highly doubt most people who "lost" a space at the table for being white actually know that is the reason, anyway. Sure, there have been jobs I didn't bother applying for because it said "Minorities encouraged to apply." Apply somewhere else.

Which has nothing to do with the simple FACT that the law as it currently exists discriminates against whites in a number of ways BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

That is simply a FACT whether you care to 'notice it' or not.

Logic simply escaped some people. If one believes blacks are inherently inferior to whites, then it might follow that they should be given a little extra help to succeed. if one believes they are not inherently inferior, and that there are any number of black people from Obama to Condi Rice to Neil Degrasse Tyson who have been VERY successful, then who cling to this outmoded, 1970's style overreaction?

The truth of the matter is that the single biggest impediment to black people's success is attitude. Those who value education, work hard and learn to get along with other people will generally succeed. Those who view all these traits as an indication one is an Uncle Tom won't.

It is this very notion that it is the white man keeping the black man down that results in failure because people do not take responsibility for their actions and project such a sense of hostility that nobody will WANT to hire them. This crutch is the very prison that actually keeping blacks down, and it is other blacks creating it .

I think the single biggest impediment to black people's success is economic disadvantage, and from that, over generations, has flowed all the majority of evils that bedevil the black community. I live in a very white state now, but I work with the poor a lot, and the issues are the same regardless of the color. One of the strongest indicators of whether you will go to college is if your parents went. Fact. Poor kids get looked down on by teachers and other students from the time they enter kindergarten and learn they're losers from the upturned noses they see all around them. That builds attitude. They move around a lot, have less stability in their lives because of economic pressures on the family. By the time they get old enough to make their own decisions they're convinced they won't amount to anything and nothing is going to improve their lot. I see it all the time. It is not just anecdotal. Sure there are those who "break the mold," but many of the successful black people like Condi etc. had middle class parents who expected her to do well. That is all AA is attempting to do--break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.
I don't think the "Uncle Tom" theory is prevalent at all. The biggest black radical on this board, A, is a huge proponent of education and a successful businessman. It's really about money, Dogmaphobe. The black community was too poor, as a group, for hundreds of years, to rub two nickels together, and it takes its toll in many ways.

Since civil rights, the black community has only backtracked as a collective...why is that? because that is not in line with you're theory. Which also is very much anecdotal, especially the looking down at by teachers.

These anecdotal stories are not going to solve the problems the black community is facing. There are actual cause and effect statistics out there pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention too.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I don't mind admitting if I'm wrong, but I would like to know what "actual case and effect statistics" are that are pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention to. There are certainly a mountain of statistics showing that poverty breeds both anti-social behavior and poor economic achievement. A cycle that takes thought, effort and time to break.

What your asking for is an appeal to ignorance. I posted raw data from multiple sources a few post earlier. It's up to us to analyze the data, not have the data feed the conclusions we want. The thought that welfare can breed dependency and become a self consuming snake, is not a difficult or errant idea. There are times when the data points very big arrow in a certain direction, which is what I think your looking for, but that big arrow will not be found in this type of data. Especially since finding that arrow is considered taboo. There are arrows that the data I posted is showing, just not big obvious ones. The obvious one is the fact that throwing money at poverty isn't helping.

 

[OldLady]

What you say is true - and it is true regardless of race. AA attempts to break the cycle for a specific group of people while ignoring those that do not fit the proper mold. Even though those people that are in similar poverty stricken situations face very similar challenges.
Again, trying to solve a perceived problem of racism with an openly racist policy.

We have an excellent program here, have had for decades, helping kids be the first in their families to go to college. The programs are growing, now including funds and all kinds of supports for single parents who want to go on to post secondary training. Around here, we're 97% white, so I can't agree that the government is somehow ignoring poor white people.

You are missing the point. It is not that no white people are being helped, but that AA is engaging in racism by prioritizing minorities by law above the interests of whites by using quotas, which is discriminatory and unjust.

Your counter-point that whites are still getting help is beside that point.

Why is it beside the point, Jim? Weren't you arguing yesterday that it would be fair if there were quotas for whites, as well?
Actually, I've tried my hardest to see this from your point of view, but I keep getting stuck on the fact that AA is an attempt at an economic equalizer and OF COURSE it's working. So the complaints that it is discriminatory against whites seems irrelevant. Whites don't have a whole lot to complain about, imo. If you want to rid the country of a perpetual underclass suffering from economic disenfranchisement, it is going to take AA.

 

[OldLady]

Which has nothing to do with the simple FACT that the law as it currently exists discriminates against whites in a number of ways BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

That is simply a FACT whether you care to 'notice it' or not.

Logic simply escaped some people. If one believes blacks are inherently inferior to whites, then it might follow that they should be given a little extra help to succeed. if one believes they are not inherently inferior, and that there are any number of black people from Obama to Condi Rice to Neil Degrasse Tyson who have been VERY successful, then who cling to this outmoded, 1970's style overreaction?

The truth of the matter is that the single biggest impediment to black people's success is attitude. Those who value education, work hard and learn to get along with other people will generally succeed. Those who view all these traits as an indication one is an Uncle Tom won't.

It is this very notion that it is the white man keeping the black man down that results in failure because people do not take responsibility for their actions and project such a sense of hostility that nobody will WANT to hire them. This crutch is the very prison that actually keeping blacks down, and it is other blacks creating it .

I think the single biggest impediment to black people's success is economic disadvantage, and from that, over generations, has flowed all the majority of evils that bedevil the black community. I live in a very white state now, but I work with the poor a lot, and the issues are the same regardless of the color. One of the strongest indicators of whether you will go to college is if your parents went. Fact. Poor kids get looked down on by teachers and other students from the time they enter kindergarten and learn they're losers from the upturned noses they see all around them. That builds attitude. They move around a lot, have less stability in their lives because of economic pressures on the family. By the time they get old enough to make their own decisions they're convinced they won't amount to anything and nothing is going to improve their lot. I see it all the time. It is not just anecdotal. Sure there are those who "break the mold," but many of the successful black people like Condi etc. had middle class parents who expected her to do well. That is all AA is attempting to do--break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.
I don't think the "Uncle Tom" theory is prevalent at all. The biggest black radical on this board, A, is a huge proponent of education and a successful businessman. It's really about money, Dogmaphobe. The black community was too poor, as a group, for hundreds of years, to rub two nickels together, and it takes its toll in many ways.

Since civil rights, the black community has only backtracked as a collective...why is that? because that is not in line with you're theory. Which also is very much anecdotal, especially the looking down at by teachers.

These anecdotal stories are not going to solve the problems the black community is facing. There are actual cause and effect statistics out there pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention too.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I don't mind admitting if I'm wrong, but I would like to know what "actual case and effect statistics" are that are pointing to the major problems in the community that no one is paying attention to. There are certainly a mountain of statistics showing that poverty breeds both anti-social behavior and poor economic achievement. A cycle that takes thought, effort and time to break.

What your asking for is an appeal to ignorance. I posted raw data from multiple sources a few post earlier. It's up to us to analyze the data, not have the data feed the conclusions we want. The thought that welfare can breed dependency and become a self consuming snake, is not a difficult or errant idea. There are times when the data points very big arrow in a certain direction, which is what I think your looking for, but that big arrow will not be found in this type of data. Especially since finding that arrow is considered taboo. There are arrows that the data I posted is showing, just not big obvious ones. The obvious one is the fact that throwing money at poverty isn't helping.

I made that post before reading the whole thread, so I have now seen your links. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers, you are a very welcome poster here. Keep talking.

 

[sakinago]

What you say is true - and it is true regardless of race. AA attempts to break the cycle for a specific group of people while ignoring those that do not fit the proper mold. Even though those people that are in similar poverty stricken situations face very similar challenges.
Again, trying to solve a perceived problem of racism with an openly racist policy.

We have an excellent program here, have had for decades, helping kids be the first in their families to go to college. The programs are growing, now including funds and all kinds of supports for single parents who want to go on to post secondary training. Around here, we're 97% white, so I can't agree that the government is somehow ignoring poor white people.

You are missing the point. It is not that no white people are being helped, but that AA is engaging in racism by prioritizing minorities by law above the interests of whites by using quotas, which is discriminatory and unjust.

Your counter-point that whites are still getting help is beside that point.

Why is it beside the point, Jim? Weren't you arguing yesterday that it would be fair if their were quotas for whites, as well?
Actually, I've tried my hardest to see this from your point of view, but I keep getting stuck on the fact that AA is an attempt at an economic equalizer and OF COURSE it's working. So the complaints that it is discriminatory against whites seems irrelevant. Whites don't have a whole lot to complain about, imo. If you want to rid the country of a perpetual underclass suffering from economic disenfranchisement, it is going to take AA.

Working for AA, but hurting other minorities like Asian Americans. Asian Americans as well as Jews on average have a higher IQ by around 15 points than white people (not trying to sound like I'm a master race here) just stating facts. We also tend to preform better scholastically than whites. Because of quotas, we have to greatly out preform whites blacks and hispanics to get into good competitive schools. Especially since those schools quota spots are being filled by a lot of native pacific asians who are the best of the best from their countries. Perfect example of orwells all the creatures on the farm are equal, some are just more equal than others.

 

[OldLady]

What you say is true - and it is true regardless of race. AA attempts to break the cycle for a specific group of people while ignoring those that do not fit the proper mold. Even though those people that are in similar poverty stricken situations face very similar challenges.
Again, trying to solve a perceived problem of racism with an openly racist policy.

We have an excellent program here, have had for decades, helping kids be the first in their families to go to college. The programs are growing, now including funds and all kinds of supports for single parents who want to go on to post secondary training. Around here, we're 97% white, so I can't agree that the government is somehow ignoring poor white people.

You are missing the point. It is not that no white people are being helped, but that AA is engaging in racism by prioritizing minorities by law above the interests of whites by using quotas, which is discriminatory and unjust.

Your counter-point that whites are still getting help is beside that point.

Why is it beside the point, Jim? Weren't you arguing yesterday that it would be fair if their were quotas for whites, as well?
Actually, I've tried my hardest to see this from your point of view, but I keep getting stuck on the fact that AA is an attempt at an economic equalizer and OF COURSE it's working. So the complaints that it is discriminatory against whites seems irrelevant. Whites don't have a whole lot to complain about, imo. If you want to rid the country of a perpetual underclass suffering from economic disenfranchisement, it is going to take AA.

Working for AA, but hurting other minorities like Asian Americans. Asian Americans as well as Jews on average have a higher IQ by around 15 points than white people (not trying to sound like I'm a master race here) just stating facts. We also tend to preform better scholastically than whites. Because of quotas, we have to greatly out preform whites blacks and hispanics to get into good competitive schools. Especially since those schools quota spots are being filled by a lot of native pacific asians who are the best of the best from their countries. Perfect example of orwells all the creatures on the farm are equal, some are just more equal than others.

Isn't that more a factor of "grading on the curve" than discrimination? I understand what you mean, but if Asian Americans and Jews consistently score higher than their non-Asian/Jewish peers, a college is going to take that into account to get the "cream of the crop," if that's what they're aiming for. If 1500 is high for white kids but only average for Asian kids, to get the brightest Asian kids you'll need to look to higher scores, right?

 

[JimBowie1958]

We also tend to preform better scholastically than whites. Because of quotas, we have to greatly out preform whites blacks and hispanics to get into good competitive schools.

Why do you consider Jews to not be whites?

Every Jew I have ever known was white.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

What you say is true - and it is true regardless of race. AA attempts to break the cycle for a specific group of people while ignoring those that do not fit the proper mold. Even though those people that are in similar poverty stricken situations face very similar challenges.
Again, trying to solve a perceived problem of racism with an openly racist policy.

We have an excellent program here, have had for decades, helping kids be the first in their families to go to college. The programs are growing, now including funds and all kinds of supports for single parents who want to go on to post secondary training. Around here, we're 97% white, so I can't agree that the government is somehow ignoring poor white people.

You are missing the point. It is not that no white people are being helped, but that AA is engaging in racism by prioritizing minorities by law above the interests of whites by using quotas, which is discriminatory and unjust.

Your counter-point that whites are still getting help is beside that point.

Why is it beside the point, Jim? Weren't you arguing yesterday that it would be fair if their were quotas for whites, as well?
Actually, I've tried my hardest to see this from your point of view, but I keep getting stuck on the fact that AA is an attempt at an economic equalizer and OF COURSE it's working. So the complaints that it is discriminatory against whites seems irrelevant. Whites don't have a whole lot to complain about, imo. If you want to rid the country of a perpetual underclass suffering from economic disenfranchisement, it is going to take AA.

Working for AA, but hurting other minorities like Asian Americans. Asian Americans as well as Jews on average have a higher IQ by around 15 points than white people (not trying to sound like I'm a master race here) just stating facts. We also tend to preform better scholastically than whites. Because of quotas, we have to greatly out preform whites blacks and hispanics to get into good competitive schools. Especially since those schools quota spots are being filled by a lot of native pacific asians who are the best of the best from their countries. Perfect example of orwells all the creatures on the farm are equal, some are just more equal than others.

What the racists who promote affirmative action fail to take into account are all the people in our country from, say, Vietnam who arrived with very little, but have prospered due to work ethic and value for education.

There is really nothing at all logical in the arguments of people who argue economic disadvantage but support racist policies as the solution. By singling out only SOME people who are disadvantaged while discriminating against others in the same boat, all they are doing is enabling the sense of perpetual victim class based upon skin color.

In a way, these arguments remind me of those offered by antisemites who support Palestinian terrorism. They often describe Jewish people as white as colonists and as European and the Palestinians as people of color, as indigenous and as perpetual victim, and this despite the fact they are extremely similar genetically. Once the Palestinians are framed as the victims, they then engage in all manner of mental gymnastics to support their desire for murder while assailing Jews for wanting to prevent such murder. Now, it hasn't become THAT bad vis a vis whites and blacks in this country, but as the BLM movement has proven, people are willing to ignore some very bad behavior in order to achieve a sense of personal satisfaction derived from their enabling it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Isn't that more a factor of "grading on the curve" than discrimination? I understand what you mean, but if Asian Americans and Jews consistently score higher than their non-Asian/Jewish peers, a college is going to take that into account to get the "cream of the crop," if that's what they're aiming for. If 1500 is high for white kids but only average for Asian kids, to get the brightest Asian kids you'll need to look to higher scores, right?

And you are left with whtie and blck and Hispanic kids who feel as though they are not equal to Jewish and Asian kids and that can breed distrust.

Why not let the chips fall where they may and simply take the best and brightest whether that means few nonJewish whites get in or not?