Which killed more people, 2 rifles, or one rental truck?

[Chuz Life]

We already have a well regulated militia. So why do civilians need guns?

The militia as defined in the Constitution is comprised of and led by the people not the government

Show me this definition in the constitution.

No words are defined in the Constitution it was the vernacular of the times. Just like "well regulated" meant in good working order or disciplined and did not mean government controlled as we take it to mean today

So why did you claim it was "as defined in the constitution" if it wasnt actually defined?

Forgive me lack of clarity of the statement.

Militia as defined at the time of the writing of the Constitution. Well regulated as defined in the vernacular at the time of the writing of the Constitution etc

For Context of the militia and the 2nd Amendment, everyone should read some of the the States Constitutions on it. INDIANA'S in particular.

 

[Skull Pilot]

A BB gun can kill a person under the right circumstances.

BBs are not accurate and have very limited range

Meaning you want weapons that have better tools for killing.

No I want to be able to hit a target with accuracy at a distance. BB guns can't do that

A gun fires a projectile that is all it does. That a projectile fired from a gun can kill is a moot point.

Shit you can throw a baseball fast enough to kill someone

No it is not. It is the whole point.

Of course it is because the vast and overwhelming majority of gun owner never kill anyone. A guns is designed to fire a projectile. A chainsaw is designed to remove chunks of material both can be used to kill. It all depends on the choice of the person wielding them

You fail to understand that the target is not the choice of the gun it is the choice of the person pulling the trigger.

A chainsaw is used to cut wood. A viable reason.

Am assault type weapon does what? Besides puff out the chests of the morons that tote them in public.

Define "assault weapon" and fyi the average everyday semiautomatic rifle is NOT an "assault" weapon

And a chainsaw can be used for a hell of a lot more than cutting wood.

It all depends on the INTENT of the user not the tool he is using

A gun does nothing but propel a projectile from the barrel. It's the INTENT of the shooter that matters

 

[Skull Pilot]

The purpose of any tool is decided by the user of that tool.

Nope. The purpose of any tool is decided by the person that invented it.

If I use a wrench to drive a nail its purpose as I use it is to drive nails.
If I use a wrench to crack some guy's head open its purpose at the time of use is to crack a skull open

The purpose of any tool is defined by the user of that tool at the time it is being used

If a person uses a rock as a tool who defines what the purpose is? The maker of the rock or the person using the rock?

I could wipe my ass with aluminum foil and call it toilet paper but we know thats not the reason or purpose for its existence. None of that changes what the inventor of the tool designed it for.

It matters not what the inventor intended. The use defines the purpose.

This is stupid. It's like someone arguing guns are for sticking up yer arse because that is what they do with it.

I cant help it if the discussion is over your head

 

[RealDave]

Meaning you want weapons that have better tools for killing.

No I want to be able to hit a target with accuracy at a distance. BB guns can't do that

A gun fires a projectile that is all it does. That a projectile fired from a gun can kill is a moot point.

Shit you can throw a baseball fast enough to kill someone

No it is not. It is the whole point.

Of course it is because the vast and overwhelming majority of gun owner never kill anyone. A guns is designed to fire a projectile. A chainsaw is designed to remove chunks of material both can be used to kill. It all depends on the choice of the person wielding them

You fail to understand that the target is not the choice of the gun it is the choice of the person pulling the trigger.

A chainsaw is used to cut wood. A viable reason.

Am assault type weapon does what? Besides puff out the chests of the morons that tote them in public.

Define "assault weapon" and fyi the average everyday semiautomatic rifle is NOT an "assault" weapon

And a chainsaw can be used for a hell of a lot more than cutting wood.

It all depends on the INTENT of the user not the tool he is using

A gun does nothing but propel a projectile from the barrel. It's the INTENT of the shooter that matters

Yet another fucking idiot who runs screaming " Dedfne Assault rifle. What is the definition" :

Like it can't be defined.

We had a ban at one time, so./ Mr Gun Freaking Expert, it can be defined.

 

[RealDave]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

Guns and trucks don't kill people.

People kill people.

You get the rental truck. I get the automatic rifles with piles of ammo.

Let;s see who ends up dead.

You will end up with sore arms, ringing ears, and a pile of empty shells.

I will end up several hundred miles away.

I am not surprised you would run from a fight.

 

[ph3iron]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

So what would you be spewing if the Vegas guy had been a Muslim?
Oh wait, he might have been a white one
Such stupidity.
Why don't you complain more killings here by white boys than Muslims since 9/11?

 

[ph3iron]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

Tim McVeigh killed more until planes and boxcutters did a better job.

My point is anything kills and guns are the least of the left worries but fuck it and let them be ignorant...

So why is our gun death rate wayhigherthan other civilized countries?
Too many dumb white high school boys?

 

[ph3iron]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

Dont forget the knife attacks that plague gun control societies like japan and China as well.

A naked man with a sharp knife sneaking through the night can kill many more people than this.

just ask the Ghurkas that served in North Africa.

I posted a separate thread on knives vs. mass shooters....

Might help if you knew the difference between a noun and an adjective and the def of liberal.
No Latin in college?

 

[2aguy]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

Tim McVeigh killed more until planes and boxcutters did a better job.

My point is anything kills and guns are the least of the left worries but fuck it and let them be ignorant...

So why is our gun death rate wayhigherthan other civilized countries?
Too many dumb white high school boys?

Because their criminals use guns for crime, they just don't use them for murder.....and that cultural value comes from their history of serfdom, experiencing 2 World Wars, and their over all culture of different classes with the lower classes respecting authority....we don't have that....our criminals commit murder easily and often....luckily, 70-80% of those they murder are other criminals.

 

[2aguy]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

First I've read that any of the guns were illegal.

Can you share a source for that?

They may have been illegally modified.

 

[2aguy]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

Dont forget the knife attacks that plague gun control societies like japan and China as well.

A naked man with a sharp knife sneaking through the night can kill many more people than this.

just ask the Ghurkas that served in North Africa.

I posted a separate thread on knives vs. mass shooters....

Might help if you knew the difference between a noun and an adjective and the def of liberal.
No Latin in college?

Wow...thanks, I always love it when morons obsess over grammar........

 

[2aguy]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

first, there's no proof his rifles were illegal.

Second, he operated in Nevada, which has the most lax gun laws in the country.

Third, it just shows the problem when you treat gun ownership as a right. The fact that this guy bought 28 guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition SHOULD have set off some alarm bells.

And the other gun owners who own even more...since there are close to 600 million guns in private hands and this guy used his guns illegally? There are people with more guns, and more ammo who will never commit any crimes with those guns....the vast, super majority of gun owners who own lots of guns......moron.

 

[2aguy]

If he had a federal permit for automatic weapons it's an easy thing to find out.
If he didn't then all his full auto weapons were illegally obtained.
If he modified semiautomatic weapons then they are still illegal

I

Why are weapons like this ever sold to anyone in the first place. These are not weapons for hunting deer or 'possums. These are not weapons for those "law abiding citizens" to protect themselves.

Yes...they are.

He may have modified them, but there are over 8 million of these rifles with magazines that people own and never use for crimes.

There were 6 mass public shootings last year.....71 murdered. Knives last year were used to murder 1,500 people.......which killed more? Can you tell?

 

[2aguy]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

a rental truck serves a purpose other than killing.

guns do not.

You continue to make an ass out of yourself with these stupid childish arguments.

Moron......guns in the hands of normal, law abiding people are used on average 1,500,000 times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murders...every single year....saving far more lives than they take......here is the research, you might want to do some...

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

If he had a federal permit for automatic weapons it's an easy thing to find out.
If he didn't then all his full auto weapons were illegally obtained.
If he modified semiautomatic weapons then they are still illegal

I

Why are weapons like this ever sold to anyone in the first place. These are not weapons for hunting deer or 'possums. These are not weapons for those "law abiding citizens" to protect themselves.

Look it is illegal for any civilian to own any automatic weapon made after 1986.
Those that legally own automatic weapons must have a federal permit and tax stamp.

All this guy had it seems were ordinary everyday semiautomatic weapons

Again, I ask why would anyone have a use for these type of weapons. Full automatic, semi automatic... any weapons that was designed to kill many as fast as possible. These are not weapons designed for hunting or protection.

They are designed for protection.....that is why people have them. The AR-15 is a great weapon for normal, law abiding people for self defense.....they are easy to shoot, for all sizes of people, they hold up to 30 rounds, which is great for self defense, they can hold lights, and laser sights, ....all things that help a law abiding person survive a violent attack, especially against more than one attacker. They were used by normal people during the various black lives matter riots, the Rodney King Riots, the aftermath of these hurricanes......... the people with those rifles didn't have their stores burned and looted.

 

[RealDave]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

a rental truck serves a purpose other than killing.

guns do not.


Moron......guns in the hands of normal, law abiding people are used on average 1,500,000 times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murders...every single year....saving far more lives than they take......here is the research, you might want to do some...

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Shove your irrelevant stts up your ignorant ass.

You take an argument about assault type rifles & talk about how guns saved the lives of all these people - supposedly.

How many required a semi automatic assault type rifle?

 

[2aguy]

The guy in Vegas had two illegal rifles.....versus the other 8,000,000 rifles that law abiding people own and didn't use to commit murder...

He used those rifles to murder 58 people...having passed every single gun control measure the anti-gunners wanted...and would have passed a universal background check as well as registering those guns if it had been required...and if he used 30 round magazines, he could have killed just as many people with 10 round magazines....

58 people...

A muslim terrorist in France, who didn't have to pass any background check used a rental truck to murder 89 people.....And wounded 458....

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

So...which killed more people....two rifles, or one rental truck?

Which was harder to get, the two rifles or the rental truck?

a rental truck serves a purpose other than killing.

guns do not.

You continue to make an ass out of yourself with these stupid childish arguments.

So if I never killed anyone with any of my guns I must be using them incorrectly right?

You are certainly not using them for what they were designed for.

Yes I am

A firearm is designed to propel a projectile at a high velocity at the target of the shooter's choice.

Also if that is the case why make guns that kill people. A BB gun is designed to propel a projectile at a high velocity at the target of the shooter's choice. There would be no need to sell a firearm beyond that power if that were the only reason for it's design. They were designed for killing.

The rifle was created to keep the owner alive....and they do that really well. When you are facing a situation like a riot, the aftermath of a hurricane, being on the border as a rancher where you may face criminals on an isolated ranch....all reasons to have a semi auto rifle with a good magazine capacity.

You haven't thought about this issue, you have allowed an irrational fear of guns dictate how you "Feel" about this issue. Please, try using reason, and not emotion.

 

[2aguy]

So if I never killed anyone with any of my guns I must be using them incorrectly right?

You are certainly not using them for what they were designed for.

Yes I am

A firearm is designed to propel a projectile at a high velocity at the target of the shooter's choice.

Also if that is the case why make guns that kill people. A BB gun is designed to propel a projectile at a high velocity at the target of the shooter's choice. There would be no need to sell a firearm beyond that power if that were the only reason for it's design. They were designed for killing.

A BB gun can kill a person under the right circumstances.

BBs are not accurate and have very limited range

Meaning you want weapons that have better tools for killing.

Better tools for stopping one or more violent criminals, who don't care about how you feel...who will rape, rob and murder if you can't stop them.

 

[2aguy]

Yes I am

A firearm is designed to propel a projectile at a high velocity at the target of the shooter's choice.

Also if that is the case why make guns that kill people. A BB gun is designed to propel a projectile at a high velocity at the target of the shooter's choice. There would be no need to sell a firearm beyond that power if that were the only reason for it's design. They were designed for killing.

A BB gun can kill a person under the right circumstances.

BBs are not accurate and have very limited range

Meaning you want weapons that have better tools for killing.

No I want to be able to hit a target with accuracy at a distance. BB guns can't do that

A gun fires a projectile that is all it does. That a projectile fired from a gun can kill is a moot point.

Shit you can throw a baseball fast enough to kill someone

No it is not. It is the whole point.

There are over 8 million of these rifles in this country......how many are used to commit murder....? Notice....knives, clubs and empty hands kill more people every single year than all rifle types...these rifles....especially AR-15 are used even less for murder........

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8



rifles....252

knives 1,544

clubs 437

hands 624

 

[2aguy]

If he had a federal permit for automatic weapons it's an easy thing to find out.
If he didn't then all his full auto weapons were illegally obtained.
If he modified semiautomatic weapons then they are still illegal

I

Why are weapons like this ever sold to anyone in the first place. These are not weapons for hunting deer or 'possums. These are not weapons for those "law abiding citizens" to protect themselves.

The 2nd amendment is not about hunting deer or possums.

You really should educate yourself about that.

We already have a well regulated militia. So why do civilians need guns?

The Right to own and carry a gun is not attached to military or militia service...it is a Fundamental Right as a human being....it is even recognized in the Bill of Rights, and supported by the Supreme Court in Heller.......