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Using the Us method for measuring gestation? Because that would be about a week after someone finds out.
Facts are not dependent on the outcome you desire. The medical fact is that we have an independent, human life at about 6 weeks gestation.
To say that something isn't human until 22 weeks...unless a brave doctor can somehow save a kid born at 21 weeks...then its human at 21 weeks...isn't really the argument that I would go with...
No. At 6 weeks, the fetal "brain" is beginning to form, but it does not function as you imagine a human brain functions. There are no discernible "brain waves."
Nor has the fetus developed the ability to feel pain.
That doesn't occur until around the 22-23rd weeks. Up until that point, the nerves aren't really connected to the "brain."
The line cannot be drawn at 6 weeks, because most women don't even know they are pregnant then!
I'm not the one that claimed that a six week old fetus was an independent human life.Then remove it and let it live.
Really? Surely you see what a silly "determiner" you've just set up...but I'll play along...
See, I completely agree. This is why I don't understand why people get so mad when I tell people I'm planning to leave my toddler alone for the two weeks my husband and I go on vacation. If the little urchin is human - he'll survive just fine for two weeks without me. And if he doesn't...well, then he wasn't human and my husband and I did nothing wrong...
Or...See, I completely agree. My best friend was in the hospital a few years ago for Toxic Shock Syndrome. When her organs starting shutting down they put her in a medically induced coma to try to stop the damage and I was all like, "No way...turn those machines off. If she can't make it on her own...then she isn't really a human...and I'm not about to be best friends with a non-human!"
Just because a human needs support to live doesn't mean they aren't human. And implying that because a fetus isn't capable of living outside the womb is a dangerous determiner for pro-life supporters to go by since the time when a baby can survive with medical intervention outside the mother's body is getting pushed up all the time...its currently around 22 weeks.
To say that something isn't human until 22 weeks...unless a brave doctor can somehow save a kid born at 21 weeks...then its human at 21 weeks...isn't really the argument that I would go with...especially since you're NEVER really going to be able to come to a firm determiner of where life begins that everyone will agree on anyway.
No brain waves, are absolutely present and measurable. What you claim is false. Medical science isn't kind to abortion
Based on abortionist claims?
What you claim is not fact. But if it were, does that mean that we can kill at will anyone with a spinal injury? Their nerves aren't really connect to the "brain." Besides, they're inconvenient.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=294&issue=8&page=947Pain is an emotional and psychological experience that requires conscious recognition of a noxious stimulus. Consequently, the capacity for conscious perception of pain can arise only after thalamocortical pathways begin to function, which may occur in the third trimester around 29 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, based on the limited data available. Small-scale histological studies of human fetuses have found that thalamocortical fibers begin to form between 23 and 30 weeks’ gestational age, but these studies did not specifically examine thalamocortical pathways active in pain perception.
Strawman. The fetus is genetically human, but lacks sentience...can't feel pain, isn't self-aware, isn't THINKING. A mouse has more sentience than a fetus.
Abortion sucks. I get that. But, it beats some of the alternatives.
Especially when using the US measuring system, that uses first day of your last period to measure how far long you are.
Numerous studies dispute your claims - not to mention the fact that we consistently protect the life of non-self-aware individuals.
Pain is an emotional and psychological experience that requires conscious recognition of a noxious stimulus. Consequently, the capacity for conscious perception of pain can arise only after thalamocortical pathways begin to function, which may occur in the third trimester around 29 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, based on the limited data available. Small-scale histological studies of human fetuses have found that thalamocortical fibers begin to form between 23 and 30 weeks’ gestational age, but these studies did not specifically examine thalamocortical pathways active in pain perception.
As to your last sentence...you assume I'm anti-abortion, and you're wrong. What I am is against the "hey, we're just sucking out a couple of your extra cells" bullshit that some in the pro-choice movement think makes an effective argument...and it doesn't. Polls show that the majority of Americans identify as "pro-choice" but with significant qualifications such as "only during the 1st trimester" or "only in cases of rape, incest, life of mother."
When they stop being sentient, we remove them from life support. This is known as "permanent vegetative state."
When they stop being sentient, we remove them from life support. This is known as "permanent vegetative state."
Individuals are not sentient, species are. Humans are sentient as a species. The presence of Obamabots does not alter this, though they may not meet the criterion individually.
You didn't answer my question.
I am guessing you don't understand that there are two ways of measuring a pregnancy.
When using the US method you are pregnant 40 weeks, using the method most other countries use you are pregnant 38 weeks.
In the US they go from the day you started your last period, which is obviously not When you conceived.
When I found I was pregnant they said I was 5 weeks pregnant, when in reality I had only been pregnant for 2 to 3 weeks depending on when I ovulated.
When they stop being sentient, we remove them from life support. This is known as "permanent vegetative state."
Individuals are not sentient, species are. Humans are sentient as a species. Edited.
Strawman. The fetus is genetically human, but lacks sentience...can't feel pain, isn't self-aware, isn't THINKING.
A mouse has more sentience than a fetus.
Abortion sucks.
I get that. But, it beats some of the alternatives.
I don't get the pain argument. Do many people remember pain they felt in the womb?
Strawman. The fetus is genetically human, but lacks sentience...can't feel pain, isn't self-aware, isn't THINKING.
There we go.
As long as we can confer or revoke "sentience" then any atrocity is permissible.
The logic that every slaughter in history is based on. If the Kulacks are rats, then why should they not be killed.
A mouse has more sentience than a fetus.
Nice.
Gee, no one has dehumanized victims and called them "rats" before.
Edited Only her abortionist knows for sure.
Abortion sucks.
It appears to be a religion to many.
I get that. But, it beats some of the alternatives.
Life?
"As most of us think of the concept," puts the lie to your statement. You are qualifying that because make a claim that "most people" agree with you...which may or may not be true...that a fetus isn't human. This is just silly....but in the end, it really doesn't matter, because your next statement appears to prove that you aren't really interested in discussing the issue with someone who might disagree with you.The simple fact is that a fetus is not developed enough to be human, as most of us think of the concept, until a particular point.
How that makes you feel isn't my problem, because I don't have to persuade you. Abortion is legal, and is likely to remain legal forever. It is not in anyone's best interests to have an additional million unwanted children dumped into the U.S. annually. Our social welfare systems can't handle the unwanted children who've already been born.
The simple fact is that a fetus is not developed enough to be human, as most of us think of the concept, until a particular point.
I've stated that I support legal abortion, repeatedly in this debate. But your statement above amounts to little more than..."Nah nah ne nah nah...abortion's legal so deal with it." Which is ludicrous, since I support it remaining legal...you just aren't willing to hear it as you continue to do exactly what stops pro-choice supporters from moving this debate forward in a useful way.
