Where do you republicans draw the line on privatizing government services?

[Sun Devil 92]

I really want you to think this through. Think about every example of government service in this country and give me an answer on which ones should be privatized.

Marriage should be privatized. If the American people had not demanded government get all up in their marriages, same sex marriages wouldn't even be an issue.

Health care should be privatized. The more government has interfered in our health care, the more the cost of health care has risen, faster than GDP and inflation. It boggles the shit out of me that the liberal solution to this is to demand even MORE government takeover of healthcare!

Home buying should be privatized. The government should end the mortgage interest deduction which is a massive wealth transfer scheme up the food chain, at the expense of raising tax rates on every taxpayer and raising the price of homes.

Lol I have to say g5000 you are the most confusing member on here. I don't mean you're incoherent; you're just unpredictable.

The first thought I can get behind - privatizing marriage. But taking MORE government out of our healthcare system is just bat shit crazy.

He's ten times the poser you are....you've never made a convincing argument (and you stop with the petty left wing talking points) with regards to health care.

The left has totally screwed us with Obamacare.

Why can't Wisconsin run it's own system ? It's bigger than Norway.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The first thought I can get behind - privatizing marriage. But taking MORE government out of our healthcare system is just bat shit crazy.

Why is that? Government is the reason our healthcare is so expensive.

Oh really? So corporate greed has nothing to do with it? Do you actually believe that?

Once again...stupid.....

Corporate greed causes corporations to influence government who can enforce laws and regulations to the benefit of the corporation....

Or are you saying that insurance companies exists without government support ? Do you actually believe that ?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

If you're willing to let the government strictly regulate these hypothetical private services, then why even bother privatizing them in the first place?

Because you don't need to hire 30,000 Medical payment specialists as FEDERAL EMPLOYEES. That's not the way MediCare claims get processed. It's PRIVATIZED thru a subsidiary of Insurance Companies that KNOWs WTF they are doing without all the oppressive management/unions/work rules of a govt operation.

Most EVERY jail is privatized to some degree because the govt SUCKS at directly delivering food services, medical services, maintenance and other labor intensive services.

You didn't answer my question about elevator inspectors.. WHICH do you prefer for accountability?

Moreover, you can't claim government oversight is useless while also conceding the oversight is still needed.

Doesn't matter. I stated that the "oversight" is gonna suck wads whether it's minding a contractor or directly controlling employees to provide the service. That's why govt should be restricted from expansion beyond their primary duties. They SUCK at most everything they touch..

Also, if you're so concerned about pollution, what makes you think we can just blindly trust a corporation to not fuck up and pollute the water they control? What's to stop them from covering it up until it becomes a massive problem? What's to stop their lobbyists from eroding any government regulations for the sake of profit?

It's a FACT that government in this country is one of the LARGEST polluters. Whether it's TVA with their coal belching power plants and ash ponds. Or the nuclear weapons labs which have ACRES of 80 yr old leaking barrels of nuclear waste at about 3 or 5 sites in this country. Or the military bases that are NOTORIOUS polluters of their property and get away with it. Federal govt has IGNORED the horrendous nuclear seepage problem at Savannah River, Hanford and Oak Ridge for DECADES..

The standards are there. Commercial business are the ones that get prosecuted. NOT GOVT operations. If you want to see TRUE enviro disasters -- look at E. Germany or Russia or China where the GOVT micromanages every aspect of the economy...

And Billy can watch as that one flys out of the park.

Your post is a HOME RUN.

Of course little Billy can't comprehend anything that complex.

 

[gipper]

Not a republican, but I assume that you also wanted a comment from a libertarian.

Government should only be involved in providing goods/services that cannot be efficiently provided by the private sector.

Example, if the private sector controlled the building and maintenance of roads, and all roads were toll roads, how many roads leading to the same place would spring up? Would we be a nation of nothing but competing roads? How can competition make roads better with a limited amount of space to compete?

Military is another government function that is difficult to place in the private sector. How would that work? Would we end up with a bunch of mercenary armies that end up fighting each other, rather than protecting us? Police and fire services would have similar problems without an absolute monopoly.

Courts. We have a mechanism for private judicial processes (arbitration). The problem comes in when the people cannot agree on an arbitrator panel. At some point, somebody has to make the final decision that is certain and undisputed. Courts will never be privatized for that very reason.

I can think of nothing else the private sector could not absolutely beat the fuck out of government in providing goods and services.

Well, healthcare isn't efficiently provided by the private sector. Many people end up with no healthcare, those who do get healthcare pay way over the odds for it. So....

The government has assisted in making HC unaffordable and complicated. They also do not want to fix it. The money is too good.

Oh really? So it's dems profiting off healthcare and not corporations?

Here we go again....

For the 100th time.......

Big business loves government. Big government protects big business....through.....wait for it.....REGULATIONS.

I used to work at a multi-national that wrote the regulations for our products and gave them to administrators to use in defining regulations. Guess what ? We wrote them to elevate the barriers to entry so we could get more MONEY.

The government ran up health care costs with Medicare. Obamacare really screwed them up with their "10 requirements".

Agreed.

Yet, we have millions of Americans who think government regulations are good. It is a myth that big government loves to promote (like so many myths about big government)...and too many uninformed Americans can't see through it.

Today, many government regulations are purposely designed to enrich the big corporate donor class to the two criminal political parties (Obamacare is at the top of the list). It is a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And let's talk Social Security.

I've paid less into my 401K and expect to draw more on it than I will from Social Security. And when I die, I will pass the principle along to my kids.

NOT that I don't understand why Social Security got started (and it is totally understandable).

But like so many things....it's totally screwed up.

I think we should require people to save (and some of that should be in relatively safe investments).

But OMG....what a screw up this has become.

And lot's of Americans purposely didn't save a dime....becuase they plan on it.....even thought it has always said it was NEVER intended to be the primary means for retirement.

We should shoot Robert Ball now.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not a republican, but I assume that you also wanted a comment from a libertarian.

Government should only be involved in providing goods/services that cannot be efficiently provided by the private sector.

Example, if the private sector controlled the building and maintenance of roads, and all roads were toll roads, how many roads leading to the same place would spring up? Would we be a nation of nothing but competing roads? How can competition make roads better with a limited amount of space to compete?

Military is another government function that is difficult to place in the private sector. How would that work? Would we end up with a bunch of mercenary armies that end up fighting each other, rather than protecting us? Police and fire services would have similar problems without an absolute monopoly.

Courts. We have a mechanism for private judicial processes (arbitration). The problem comes in when the people cannot agree on an arbitrator panel. At some point, somebody has to make the final decision that is certain and undisputed. Courts will never be privatized for that very reason.

I can think of nothing else the private sector could not absolutely beat the fuck out of government in providing goods and services.

Well, healthcare isn't efficiently provided by the private sector. Many people end up with no healthcare, those who do get healthcare pay way over the odds for it. So....

The government has assisted in making HC unaffordable and complicated. They also do not want to fix it. The money is too good.

Oh really? So it's dems profiting off healthcare and not corporations?

Here we go again....

For the 100th time.......

Big business loves government. Big government protects big business....through.....wait for it.....REGULATIONS.

I used to work at a multi-national that wrote the regulations for our products and gave them to administrators to use in defining regulations. Guess what ? We wrote them to elevate the barriers to entry so we could get more MONEY.

The government ran up health care costs with Medicare. Obamacare really screwed them up with their "10 requirements".

Agreed.

Yet, we have millions of Americans who think government regulations are good. It is a myth that big government loves to promote (like so many myths about big government)...and too many uninformed Americans can't see through it.

Today, many government regulations are purposely designed to enrich the big corporate donor class to the two criminal political parties (Obamacare is at the top of the list). It is a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

And the people are told that the political system is good, and the way they vote is good too. Just so he rich can control them more easily.

 

[gipper]

Well, healthcare isn't efficiently provided by the private sector. Many people end up with no healthcare, those who do get healthcare pay way over the odds for it. So....

The government has assisted in making HC unaffordable and complicated. They also do not want to fix it. The money is too good.

Oh really? So it's dems profiting off healthcare and not corporations?

Here we go again....

For the 100th time.......

Big business loves government. Big government protects big business....through.....wait for it.....REGULATIONS.

I used to work at a multi-national that wrote the regulations for our products and gave them to administrators to use in defining regulations. Guess what ? We wrote them to elevate the barriers to entry so we could get more MONEY.

The government ran up health care costs with Medicare. Obamacare really screwed them up with their "10 requirements".

Agreed.

Yet, we have millions of Americans who think government regulations are good. It is a myth that big government loves to promote (like so many myths about big government)...and too many uninformed Americans can't see through it.

Today, many government regulations are purposely designed to enrich the big corporate donor class to the two criminal political parties (Obamacare is at the top of the list). It is a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

And the people are told that the political system is good, and the way they vote is good too. Just so he rich can control them more easily.

Anyone who believes our political system is good, has outed themselves as a dunce.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The government has assisted in making HC unaffordable and complicated. They also do not want to fix it. The money is too good.

Oh really? So it's dems profiting off healthcare and not corporations?

Here we go again....

For the 100th time.......

Big business loves government. Big government protects big business....through.....wait for it.....REGULATIONS.

I used to work at a multi-national that wrote the regulations for our products and gave them to administrators to use in defining regulations. Guess what ? We wrote them to elevate the barriers to entry so we could get more MONEY.

The government ran up health care costs with Medicare. Obamacare really screwed them up with their "10 requirements".

Agreed.

Yet, we have millions of Americans who think government regulations are good. It is a myth that big government loves to promote (like so many myths about big government)...and too many uninformed Americans can't see through it.

Today, many government regulations are purposely designed to enrich the big corporate donor class to the two criminal political parties (Obamacare is at the top of the list). It is a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

And the people are told that the political system is good, and the way they vote is good too. Just so he rich can control them more easily.

Anyone who believes our political system is good, has outed themselves as a dunce.

Well, you've just dunced most of this board.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And let's talk Social Security.

I've paid less into my 401K and expect to draw more on it than I will from Social Security. And when I die, I will pass the principle along to my kids.

NOT that I don't understand why Social Security got started (and it is totally understandable).

But like so many things....it's totally screwed up.

I think we should require people to save (and some of that should be in relatively safe investments).

But OMG....what a screw up this has become.

And lot's of Americans purposely didn't save a dime....becuase they plan on it.....even thought it has always said it was NEVER intended to be the primary means for retirement.

We should shoot Robert Ball now.

SS sends a pamphlet to your home every couple of years with your (and your employers) history of SS contributions. Take that list to a reputable investment agency and ask what you might be worth today if all that money had been placed in a private conservative investment all those years. You'll probably have a heart attack when you learn what you would be worth today and what you'd be worth at the time of retirement.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Where do you republicans draw the line on privatizing government services?


Republicans don't. The Constitution does.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Where do you republicans draw the line on privatizing government services?


Republicans don't. The Constitution does.

Is a "Service" (liberalspeak for a function of government people are forced into by law) authorized by the Constitution?

If it is, good. If it isn't, then the Fed govt shouldn't be doing it (or paying for it) at all. The states and the people can still do it if they want to, though.

Not because Republicans say so. But because the Constitution says so.

Are you beginning to understand at last?

And if there's a service not on the list, that you want to Fed govt to handle, no problem. Just get 2/3 of each house of Congress, and 3/4 of the states, to agree, and you're home free. (The Constitution allows for that, too.) If the service is so much wanted, you shouldn't have any trouble with that. Right?

 

[flacaltenn]

I really want you to think this through. Think about every example of government service in this country and give me an answer on which ones should be privatized.

Marriage should be privatized. If the American people had not demanded government get all up in their marriages, same sex marriages wouldn't even be an issue.

Health care should be privatized. The more government has interfered in our health care, the more the cost of health care has risen, faster than GDP and inflation. It boggles the shit out of me that the liberal solution to this is to demand even MORE government takeover of healthcare!

Home buying should be privatized. The government should end the mortgage interest deduction which is a massive wealth transfer scheme up the food chain, at the expense of raising tax rates on every taxpayer and raising the price of homes.

OMG. You sound like one of those fucking Libertarians. Good job bro.. Hope you're serious..

 

[flacaltenn]

If you're willing to let the government strictly regulate these hypothetical private services, then why even bother privatizing them in the first place?

Because you don't need to hire 30,000 Medical payment specialists as FEDERAL EMPLOYEES. That's not the way MediCare claims get processed. It's PRIVATIZED thru a subsidiary of Insurance Companies that KNOWs WTF they are doing without all the oppressive management/unions/work rules of a govt operation.

Most EVERY jail is privatized to some degree because the govt SUCKS at directly delivering food services, medical services, maintenance and other labor intensive services.

You didn't answer my question about elevator inspectors.. WHICH do you prefer for accountability?

Moreover, you can't claim government oversight is useless while also conceding the oversight is still needed.

Doesn't matter. I stated that the "oversight" is gonna suck wads whether it's minding a contractor or directly controlling employees to provide the service. That's why govt should be restricted from expansion beyond their primary duties. They SUCK at most everything they touch..

Also, if you're so concerned about pollution, what makes you think we can just blindly trust a corporation to not fuck up and pollute the water they control? What's to stop them from covering it up until it becomes a massive problem? What's to stop their lobbyists from eroding any government regulations for the sake of profit?

It's a FACT that government in this country is one of the LARGEST polluters. Whether it's TVA with their coal belching power plants and ash ponds. Or the nuclear weapons labs which have ACRES of 80 yr old leaking barrels of nuclear waste at about 3 or 5 sites in this country. Or the military bases that are NOTORIOUS polluters of their property and get away with it. Federal govt has IGNORED the horrendous nuclear seepage problem at Savannah River, Hanford and Oak Ridge for DECADES..

The standards are there. Commercial business are the ones that get prosecuted. NOT GOVT operations. If you want to see TRUE enviro disasters -- look at E. Germany or Russia or China where the GOVT micromanages every aspect of the economy...

Let me just ask you this. You can concede that the government must regulate any hypothetical privatization of a government service, right? What specific regulations should be in place? What protections should these regulations have?

Also, if there were no environmental regulations at all, just how much pollution do you think corporations would end up being guilty of?

You're not even capable of asking the right questions because of your puny understanding of how things work. I can excuse that -- because that's a fact of life for the folks that WORSHIP huge govt and run to it every time they get triggered by something out of order or want a "law".

Privatization doesn't REQUIRE regulations. Regulations exist separately whether the task is task is done by unmotivated bureaucrats or a private entity. Same regulations apply. What you WANTED to ask is about the OVERSIGHT AND MANAGEMENT of a privatization deal. Sometimes this means the govt simply CONTRACTS for that good or service and simply manages the contract requirements. Sometimes it means that the govt directly works WITH the contractor and is the LEAD MGT for that program.

The Apollo project was a good example of the latter. NASA didn't get us to moon. Northrup, Grumman, GE, Boeing, General Dynamics, Honeywell and others got us to the moon. But in that case of "privatization", the govt maintained the LEAD role in direct chain of command.

The TSA expansion was a great example of how FEDERALIZING an entire new workforce introduced massive problems in oversight and mgt of that people. It would have been far better to "privatize" that workforce thru contracts and just do the oversight. Corporations are better suited to INNOVATION and acquiring and using technology than the Federal govt.

You need to realize that the Federal Govt is one of the most backwards and sluggish organizations on the entire fucking planet. At the time of 9.11, the FBI was using rolodexes, rotary phones, filing cabinets and teletype machines. That's the reason that the LOST the lead position in domestic surveillance. They lost it to the NSA, but that's another story. Since the NSA is the exception to the rule and has ALWAYS been one of the ONLY hotbeds of technology driven innovations that exist in the Fed govt.

Couldn't even build a ObamaCare website on time and without a $Bill because the MANAGEMENT skills of overseeing and communicating with contractors is so piss poor.

How do I KNOW THIS? I spent 10 years in R&D selling the most advanced technology ideas to govt. I know where the small groups of COMPETENT agencies exist. And it's a pitifully small fraction of the Govt that you worship as competent, efficient, innovative, and motivated. They AIN'T NONE of those things in general.. Also worked briefly at Kennedy Space Center as a contract scientist. Not really impressed with that govt function either.

 

[Flash]

I am not a Republican because they are Progressive and big government Liberals jut like the filthy Democrats.

However, as a real Conservative:

I think there is a limited role for government. Defense, police, courts, state department, immigration etc.

Many government functions that we do like education, health care, road building etc could be done more efficiently by privatization. The government always fucks everything up.

The government should never be in the business of taking money from an individual to be used for any kind of stupid social bullshit. For instance, we don't need to privatize Social Security because we shouldn't have Social Security. We sure as hell don't need welfare.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And let's talk Social Security.

I've paid less into my 401K and expect to draw more on it than I will from Social Security. And when I die, I will pass the principle along to my kids.

NOT that I don't understand why Social Security got started (and it is totally understandable).

But like so many things....it's totally screwed up.

I think we should require people to save (and some of that should be in relatively safe investments).

But OMG....what a screw up this has become.

And lot's of Americans purposely didn't save a dime....becuase they plan on it.....even thought it has always said it was NEVER intended to be the primary means for retirement.

We should shoot Robert Ball now.

SS sends a pamphlet to your home every couple of years with your (and your employers) history of SS contributions. Take that list to a reputable investment agency and ask what you might be worth today if all that money had been placed in a private conservative investment all those years. You'll probably have a heart attack when you learn what you would be worth today and what you'd be worth at the time of retirement.

I don't need to take it to anyone. I can do that math on my own.

And while the dollar figure is quite stunning, that generally assumes a more risky investment strategy.

Even with a conservative investment strategy the amount is significant and better than expected payments.

Additionally, assuming you live off the interest only, you can pass the principle on.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And let's talk Social Security.

I've paid less into my 401K and expect to draw more on it than I will from Social Security. And when I die, I will pass the principle along to my kids.

NOT that I don't understand why Social Security got started (and it is totally understandable).

But like so many things....it's totally screwed up.

I think we should require people to save (and some of that should be in relatively safe investments).

But OMG....what a screw up this has become.

And lot's of Americans purposely didn't save a dime....becuase they plan on it.....even thought it has always said it was NEVER intended to be the primary means for retirement.

We should shoot Robert Ball now.

SS sends a pamphlet to your home every couple of years with your (and your employers) history of SS contributions. Take that list to a reputable investment agency and ask what you might be worth today if all that money had been placed in a private conservative investment all those years. You'll probably have a heart attack when you learn what you would be worth today and what you'd be worth at the time of retirement.

I don't need to take it to anyone. I can do that math on my own.

And while the dollar figure is quite stunning, that generally assumes a more risky investment strategy.

Even with a conservative investment strategy the amount is significant and better than expected payments.

Additionally, assuming you live off the interest only, you can pass the principle on.

I'm a sick man and don't know how long God will let me live into retirement if I make it to retirement at all. I have no complaints, but what I am upset about is all the money I gave to government to take care of me, and that money may go to taking care of people I never even met yet alone not being family.

I would have gladly taken the risk and perhaps retire early because all that loot would be a large sum of money now. Don't forget that FICA is a cute acronym for Social Security. It's the same thing only with a different name. If all that money was under my control since the day I started working, I would be in great shape today, and if not me, my family if I kicked off.

 

[sartre play]

Has not worked well for us, yes government makes a mess, private makes money paid for by us and leaves a mess for our money to clean up.

 

[Billy000]

The fact that liberals seem to be unaware of is that privatization of government services has advanced quite well due to dumbass polices the liberals set up.

Government workers have oversized salaries, overgenerous pension plans, and are very difficult to fire even if they're incompetent.

Government has responded by hiring private contractors to perform many government functions, and then just hiring a few actual government employees to supervise the work of the contractors.

But what about the specific examples I gave?

 

[Kosh]

The fact that liberals seem to be unaware of is that privatization of government services has advanced quite well due to dumbass polices the liberals set up.

Government workers have oversized salaries, overgenerous pension plans, and are very difficult to fire even if they're incompetent.

Government has responded by hiring private contractors to perform many government functions, and then just hiring a few actual government employees to supervise the work of the contractors.

But what about the specific examples I gave?

Far left religious dogma does not count in the real world!

If you have any real world examples, then provide them.

Come back when you have some!

 

[ScienceRocks]

I think our roads, schools, police force, fire department, legal system, national parks, liberty's and social safetynet shouldn't ever be privatized.

I think we have gone to far already.