Where do religious folk who are climate deniers reconcile this?

[Dr Grump]

YOU are the one equating the idea of a supreme being with Santa Clause.

Um, that's right. That is my point. Well done...

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Um, that's right. That is my point. Well done...

That says more about you than any connection between Santa Clause and God.
Do you also think Albert Einstein or Erwin Schrodinger can't distinguish between
Santa Clause and God...because there really is none? You try to mock others and wind up sliming yourself. Good work!


You must be weakening because before you denied any disrespect on your part to those with religious leanings.
You don't really give a crap if you are seen as an inflammatory troll anymore, do you.

 

[Dr Grump]

[
That says more about you than any connection between Santa Clause and God.
You must be weakening because before you denied any disrespect on your part to those with religious leanings.
You don't really give a crap if you are seen as an inflammatory troll anymore, do you.

I'm trying to make a point by illustrating it. I'm trying to get Dave to show me what the difference is.
If we were talking in real life, these questions would be put in a matter of fact way. I can do condescending, but I'm not being so in this instance. Unfortunately typing doesn't do nuance. Trust me, I'm not mocking him, I'm trying to get him to give me logic.

Up until a certain age kids believe in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny etc. Then they realise it's not true. I'm the same with a god. I was born into an Anglican family. But I soon started questioning the whole god thing. I realised the only reason I believed because I was scared not to. I was told of all the bad things that would happen to me if I didn't. Then one day, I thought, 'what a crock of shit and it's a real shitty reason to believe in something'. Started doing some digging and came to my own conclusions. Thing is, I can argue all day about the logic of my conclusions. Religous folk can't. They only have belief. And that's fine, but I find it ironic that belief is enough for them, but when it comes to man-made global warming, and the evidence is in, these same people say 'there's no evidence' even though there's a trove of it. It's not lost on me the vast majority of nay sayers are white, conservative, US, Christians.

 

[daveman]

Wrong. Using YOUR logic, I should believe in Santa Claus.

You really suck at logic, by the way.

I think you suck at posting and logic. My logic: there is evidence of man-made global warming, none whatsoever of a god, ergo, there is no god. I apply the same logic to Santa. In other words, you have it arse backwards.

Edit: Actually, we're both right. Using my logic I don't believe in a god or Santa. But yes, the evidence of a god is the same as there is of there being Santa. So I do wonder why you don't believe in both.

I've explained basic concepts to you all throughout this thread.

Your usual response: NUH UH UR DUMB

 

[daveman]

[
That says more about you than any connection between Santa Clause and God.
You must be weakening because before you denied any disrespect on your part to those with religious leanings.
You don't really give a crap if you are seen as an inflammatory troll anymore, do you.

I'm trying to make a point by illustrating it. I'm trying to get Dave to show me what the difference is.
If we were talking in real life, these questions would be put in a matter of fact way. I can do condescending, but I'm not being so in this instance. Unfortunately typing doesn't do nuance. Trust me, I'm not mocking him, I'm trying to get him to give me logic.

Up until a certain age kids believe in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny etc. Then they realise it's not true. I'm the same with a god. I was born into an Anglican family. But I soon started questioning the whole god thing. I realised the only reason I believed because I was scared not to. I was told of all the bad things that would happen to me if I didn't. Then one day, I thought, 'what a crock of shit and it's a real shitty reason to believe in something'. Started doing some digging and came to my own conclusions. Thing is, I can argue all day about the logic of my conclusions. Religous folk can't. They only have belief. And that's fine, but I find it ironic that belief is enough for them, but when it comes to man-made global warming, and the evidence is in, these same people say 'there's no evidence' even though there's a trove of it. It's not lost on me the vast majority of nay sayers are white, conservative, US, Christians.

I've given you logic. Your refusal to acknowledgement is your problem, not mine.

You have never talked anyone into abandoning their faith. You will never talk anyone into abandoning their faith.

Apparently, that makes you angry.

 

[Dr Grump]

I've given you logic. Your refusal to acknowledgement is your problem, not mine.

You have never talked anyone into abandoning their faith. You will never talk anyone into abandoning their faith.

Apparently, that makes you angry.

On this thread? I'm not even close to being angry.
OTOH, you do seem to be getting annoyed.
Faith is not logic.
faith

noun
noun: faith

1. strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
   
   
2. 
   
3. noun
   noun: logic
   1.
   reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I'm trying to make a point by illustrating it. I'm trying to get Dave to show me what the difference is.
If we were talking in real life, these questions would be put in a matter of fact way. I can do condescending, but I'm not being so in this instance. Unfortunately typing doesn't do nuance. Trust me, I'm not mocking him, I'm trying to get him to give me logic.

The logical and reasoned argument for the caused universe exists. The Existence of God and the Beginning of the Universe | Reasonable Faith

Christian apologist William Lane Craig specializes in this argument and he has all sorts of scholarly referenced material from the great thinkers of history. You may find there is much more argument by Lane than anyone would care to read but you can't say he hasn't thoroughly made his points.

For me the real magic and imaginary position is to say the universe has always existed. It has no beginning and no source or reason for being. It just is. I wonder if can think of any person or thing that "just is"? I can't.
By the way, to short circuit what is surely coming the being we refer to as God exists
outside of our dimension and realm of existence and therefore is not subject to the reality
we all are subject to. Crazy I know, but not as crazy as an uncaused universe that just is.

Read the second scientific confirmation. It's quite interesting and explains why the universe cannot be infinite with no beginning or end. It's simply not possible.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You know what's also logical? "You can't prove a negative."

You believe there is no god...but you can't prove it.

You take it on faith, in other words.

I put god in the same category as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. Man made constructs. So using your logic you believe in Santa Claus. Interesting...

Prove Santa claus is not real, Virginia.


.

 

[daveman]

I've given you logic. Your refusal to acknowledgement is your problem, not mine.

You have never talked anyone into abandoning their faith. You will never talk anyone into abandoning their faith.

Apparently, that makes you angry.

On this thread? I'm not even close to being angry.
OTOH, you do seem to be getting annoyed.
Faith is not logic.
faith

noun
noun: faith

1. strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
   
   
2. 
   
3. noun
   noun: logic
   1.
   reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

Not everyone operates on emotion, like you do.

I've explained simple concepts simply. You misunderstand, either on purpose or because you really don't understand, because the things I say challenge your worldview.

And you can't tolerate that.

 

[Dr Grump]

I wonder if can think of any person or thing that "just is"? I can't.
By the way, to short circuit what is surely coming the being we refer to as God exists
outside of our dimension and realm of existence and therefore is not subject to the reality
we all are subject to. Crazy I know, but not as crazy as an uncaused universe that just is.

And there's the thing. If you gave me the choice of what is more believable, the universe just 'exists' and this god 'exists outside the realm of existence and is not subject to the reality we all are subject too', I find the former much more believable. Because my next question would be how does this other dimension exist? Where did it come from?

it's almost a circular argument.

 

[Dr Grump]

Prove Santa claus is not real, Virginia.

.

All empirical and physical evidence proves Santa Claus does not exist.

 

[Dr Grump]

Not everyone operates on emotion, like you do.

I've explained simple concepts simply. You misunderstand, either on purpose or because you really don't understand, because the things I say challenge your worldview.

And you can't tolerate that.

You're the one whose posts are dripping with emotion. Including this one. I'm being logical. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

And there's the thing. If you gave me the choice of what is more believable, the universe just 'exists' and this god 'exists outside the realm of existence and is not subject to the reality we all are subject too', I find the former much more believable. Because my next question would be how does this other dimension exist? Where did it come from?

it's almost a circular argument.

Of course that's something no human being will ever be able to answer (not while on this plane of existence anyway).
But we have proof of the universe maker, or engineer, because we have proof of the universe itself.
Did you read my link to the scientific way we know the universe is not without a beginning?
If the universe has a starting point then it has a cause for being...something that started it off.

We must infer God by his creation the way we infer a bicycle maker by the bicycle itself.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Prove Santa claus is not real, Virginia.

.

All empirical and physical evidence proves Santa Claus does not exist.

No it doesn't Virginia....


DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
Papa says, ‘If you see it in THE SUN it’s so.’
Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

VIRGINIA O’HANLON.
115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET.

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

 

[peach174]

The Bible explains why the climate is changing and it's not because of fossil fuels.
It describes exactly what's happening right now with our climate and how we can change it.
But the vast majority won't accept it.

 

[daveman]

Not everyone operates on emotion, like you do.

I've explained simple concepts simply. You misunderstand, either on purpose or because you really don't understand, because the things I say challenge your worldview.

And you can't tolerate that.

You're the one whose posts are dripping with emotion. Including this one. I'm being logical. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm sure that fiction comforts you.

 

[sparky]

WT <blue> F does faith have to do with science here?

~S~

 

[daveman]

WT <blue> F does faith have to do with science here?

~S~

Grump is angry that people of faith don't believe the things he tells them to.

 

[Dr Grump]

[
Of course that's something no human being will ever be able to answer (not while on this plane of existence anyway).
But we have proof of the universe maker, or engineer, because we have proof of the universe itself.
Did you read my link to the scientific way we know the universe is not without a beginning?
If the universe has a starting point then it has a cause for being...something that started it off.

We must infer God by his creation the way we infer a bicycle maker by the bicycle itself.

And why does the 'thing' that started it off have to be a god? Or an omnipotent being?

Yeah, but I can tell you where you got the parts to make the bike.

There is no proof other than belief of a god.

 

[Dr Grump]

WT <blue> F does faith have to do with science here?

~S~

Grump is angry that people of faith don't believe the things he tells them to.

\
Grump isn't even angry.