Zone1 What you were never told about Revelation: A revaluation and reassessment

[norwegen]

What the author is referring to is his coming again as a leader and teacher, not a resurrection for a second time.

The author doesn't say this.

the provenance of the book of Hebrews is questionable

Well, here's the problem. You're a skeptic.

 

[DudleySmith]

Certainly, they're important, but that's irrelevant to Christ's historical comings among his people. Even evangelicals say Christ appeared in the Old Testament. Their favorite example is the fourth man who appeared in a blazing hot oven with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

All speculation on their part; nothing in the books say it's Jesus, obviously.

 

[DudleySmith]

The author doesn't say this.

lol It's exactly why he refers to it as the Second Coming', i.e. back to Earth. It is not referring to a another resurrection. Jesus doesn't die again after his resurrection.

Well, here's the problem. You're a skeptic.

Actually I'm going by a whole lot of beleivers and scholars on that subject. I'm not inventing anything here.

 

[norwegen]

Actually I'm going by a whole lot of beleivers and scholars on that subject. I'm not inventing anything here.

Then you're going by a whole lot of believers and scholars who invented something. Mainstream and evangelical Christians invent a lot of "theology." I read the book instead.

Jesus couldn't have come a second time at his resurrection if his second coming was still future. I mean, to say that is just silly and illogical.

 

[Cougarbear]

It's about the first century and written to first century Christians. The charlatans are always saying that Gog and Magog are Russia or the US is Babylon or the EU is the beast.

Muslim Anarchists say Israel is small Satan and the U.S. is Big Satan. Just our enemies call us Babylon. Again, the time line of Revelation and when John wrote Revelation makes it impossible for it to be about the 1st century. The only enemy Israel and Christians had then were the Romans. And, they were not Gog and Magog. So, you are again, wrong. I'm not saying Russia is God and Magog. They are from the north but so is China. So is Turkey.

 

[DudleySmith]

Then you're going by a whole lot of believers and scholars who invented something. Mainstream and evangelical Christians invent a lot of "theology." I read the book instead.

Jesus couldn't have come a second time at his resurrection if his second coming was still future. I mean, to say that is just silly and illogical.

Now you're just making up your own points and then 'refuting' them. lol

 

[DudleySmith]

Muslim Anarchists say Israel is small Satan and the U.S. is Big Satan. Just our enemies call us Babylon. Again, the time line of Revelation and when John wrote Revelation makes it impossible for it to be about the 1st century. The only enemy Israel and Christians had then were the Romans. And, they were not Gog and Magog. So, you are again, wrong. I'm not saying Russia is God and Magog. They are from the north but so is China. So is Turkey.

Revelations is about Jews, not gentiles and their issues. The 'Seven Hills' refers to Jerusalem, and Jesus preached to Jews for a return to the real Torah and away from the 2nd Temple and the Babylonian hijacking of Jewish leadership. Jesus predicted the fall of the 2nd Temple, and did not ever predict a third one. Revelation being written in 65-68 A.D. makes a lot more sense than 95 A.D. or later, when John would be pretty old or dead. Jesus came to reform Judaism and take it back to it universalist roots. Unless you think Samaritans, Essenes, and all the rest were 'not real Jews' and didn't really exist. John was an Apostle, not a disciple, and one had to be at least 33 years old to be a teacher, or 'rabbi' if you prefer, and schooled in the oral teachings, with which Mathew and John clearly are.

 

[Cougarbear]

Revelations is about Jews, not gentiles and their issues. The 'Seven Hills' refers to Jerusalem, and Jesus preached to Jews for a return to the real Torah and away from the 2nd Temple and the Babylonian hijacking of Jewish leadership. Jesus predicted the fall of the 2nd Temple, and did not ever predict a third one. Revelation being written in 65-68 A.D. makes a lot more sense than 95 A.D. or later, when John would be pretty old or dead. Jesus came to reform Judaism and take it back to it universalist roots. Unless you think Samaritans, Essenes, and all the rest were 'not real Jews' and didn't really exist. John was an Apostle, not a disciple, and one had to be at least 33 years old to be a teacher, or 'rabbi' if you prefer, and schooled in the oral teachings, with which Mathew and John clearly are.

Jesus preached for the people to return to Jewish Leadership. So, that's why he chastised the Jewish leadership Sadducees and Pharisees. Return to pollutions of the Law of Moses all while he was taking upon him the New and Higher Law. Universalist roots??? LOL! My side is aching!!! John was called by Jesus Christ to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Not Moses. As far as the age of the original Apostles, they were not called to be rabbis, to the Sanhedrin. They were called to be Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Church of Jesus Christ. So, their age is not of any consequences. Jesus began His ministry when he was 30. There goes that theory.

 

[surada]

Nah. That theory is based on an apocryphal book that had the poor writing when compared to the the other books by John.

All the Apostles and their disciples had 'Jewish attitudes'; they were all Jews, and their bible was the Old Testament books, especially the Torah. Not to be confused with the racist Babylonians and the Temple scam, i.e. also the govt.

Where is your evidence that they are one and the same?

 

[surada]

Muslim Anarchists say Israel is small Satan and the U.S. is Big Satan. Just our enemies call us Babylon. Again, the time line of Revelation and when John wrote Revelation makes it impossible for it to be about the 1st century. The only enemy Israel and Christians had then were the Romans. And, they were not Gog and Magog. So, you are again, wrong. I'm not saying Russia is God and Magog. They are from the north but so is China. So is Turkey.

Of course it's first century. Read some history. Gog and Magog are from Lydia and Eastern Iran. They invaded 500 years earlier. Lots of countries gathered at Megiddo to fight under Vespasian against Jerusalem.

 

[surada]

God knew and we know. There isn't a John on earth that can predict 2,000 years into the future. John of Patmos had a direct line to Jesus and Jesus told John what was going to happen. And we are living those predictions today. The New World Order is transitioning the world as we speak. Jesus nailed it...

Why send a letter to the 7 churches if revelation had no relevance in the first century?

 

[buttercup]

Why send a letter to the 7 churches if revelation had no relevance in the first century?

Because those churches were also symbolic of things to come in the future.

I've noticed that you read the bible as if it's one-dimensional, and I'm sorry but you read it with little to no understanding or discernment... probably because the Bible itself states that it cannot be understood without the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

PS: Prophetic passages often have than one meaning. Sometimes they apply to both an event at the time it was written... AND a future event.

 

[surada]

Because those churches were also symbolic of things to come in the future.

I've noticed that you read the bible as if it's one-dimensional, and I'm sorry but you read it with little to no understanding or discernment... probably because the Bible itself states that it cannot be understood without the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

PS: Prophetic passages often have than one meaning. Sometimes they apply to both an event at the time it was written... AND a future event.

The symbolism was understood by the target audience of the first century.

 

[Votto]

God knew and we know. There isn't a John on earth that can predict 2,000 years into the future. John of Patmos had a direct line to Jesus and Jesus told John what was going to happen. And we are living those predictions today. The New World Order is transitioning the world as we speak. Jesus nailed it...

The Mark of the Beast is really the warning for those in the future.

Don't accept a mark they will insist you have on your right hand or forehead.

This is why the Left, or globalists, will insist on destroying either Christians or those prophecies.

Imagine an implant that can track you and keep track of all our financial transactions and probably be a way to monitor such things as your body activity and a source of your medical information, etc. It will be ruthlessly efficient, and the technology is already there and being used, like how they chip your pet.

It's not a matter of if now, but when.

 

[DudleySmith]

Jesus preached for the people to return to Jewish Leadership.

So you either have reading problems or you just need to revise what is written to suit your own revisions.

 

[DudleySmith]

Where is your evidence that they are one and the same?

No other 'John' is relevant to the NT, which is why he identified himself up front. Of course it is the same John.

A very small sampling of the similar chiastic structures of John's Gospel and his Revelations.

Literary structure (chiasmus, chiasm) of John-Revelation

 

[DudleySmith]

PS: Prophetic passages often have than one meaning. Sometimes they apply to both an event at the time it was written... AND a future event.

Yes. The literary structures of many of the books point directly to that.

 

[surada]

No other 'John' is relevant to the NT, which is why he identified himself up front. Of course it is the same John.

A very small sampling of the similar chiastic structures of John's Gospel and his Revelations.

Literary structure (chiasmus, chiasm) of John-Revelation

One John is expert in Greek, the other isn't.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Why send a letter to the 7 churches if revelation had no relevance in the first century

Because it was relevant to the churches...

 

[JustAGuy1]

Because it was relevant to the churches...

She doesn't believe that the Bible has any future relevance at all.