What Would Happen if Israel Cedes Territory to Jordan?

[Shusha]

I think it would be a game-changer. What if, rather than trying to gain independence and sovereignty from Israel or in a peace treaty with Israel, the Palestinians were to negotiate with Jordan? What if Jordan became the main player in the interaction with the Palestinians on the world stage?

How would that change or affect the conflict?

Let's say Israel ceded all of Areas A and B to Jordan, as well as those parts of Area C necessary to create a continguous Palestinian area attached to Jordan.

Note that this would not preclude a Palestinian State, it just changes who the Palestinians have to negotiate with in order to obtain sovereignty. Wouldn't it make sense to negotiate with a partner rather than an enemy? Wouldn't everyone agree that common interests can create peace where conflict and opposing points of view could not?

And wouldn't it be better for a country like Jordan to handle security issues with the Palestinians?

What does everyone think will happen?

 

[Roudy]

That's a great idea. Take half the West Bank and give the other half to Jordan, and let them sort it out. I'm sure Jordan would be happy for the extra land, since they have about a million Syrian refugees they had to take in recently. The Palestinians would be happy too since they would be ruled by Muslims as opposed to Jews.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

It still won't stop the hate.

 

[jillian]

I think it would be a game-changer. What if, rather than trying to gain independence and sovereignty from Israel or in a peace treaty with Israel, the Palestinians were to negotiate with Jordan? What if Jordan became the main player in the interaction with the Palestinians on the world stage?

How would that change or affect the conflict?

Let's say Israel ceded all of Areas A and B to Jordan, as well as those parts of Area C necessary to create a continguous Palestinian area attached to Jordan.

Note that this would not preclude a Palestinian State, it just changes who the Palestinians have to negotiate with in order to obtain sovereignty. Wouldn't it make sense to negotiate with a partner rather than an enemy? Wouldn't everyone agree that common interests can create peace where conflict and opposing points of view could not?

And wouldn't it be better for a country like Jordan to handle security issues with the Palestinians?

What does everyone think will happen?

why on earth would they do that?

of course, jordan could give land to the pals since the pals are really jordanian but jordan doesn't want them.

 

[Boston1]

Don't do it.

Not one more inch

Either the UN or Israel should determine the refugee status of all palestinians by virtue of their ever having or their forfathers ever having engaged in hostilities or been suspected of engaging or lending aid in hostilities against the Israeli state.

And throw the bums out.

Neither the UN nor the Geneva conventions require Israel to be housing combatants or descendants of combatants or those even suspected of aiding combatants legal or illegal.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Jordan doesn't want it, or the Pallies living on it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's a great idea. Take half the West Bank and give the other half to Jordan, and let them sort it out. I'm sure Jordan would be happy for the extra land, since they have about a million Syrian refugees they had to take in recently. The Palestinians would be happy too since they would be ruled by Muslims as opposed to Jews.

Nah, keep all the land, ship the Pallies all to Syria. I hear there's room.

 

[aris2chat]

That's a great idea. Take half the West Bank and give the other half to Jordan, and let them sort it out. I'm sure Jordan would be happy for the extra land, since they have about a million Syrian refugees they had to take in recently. The Palestinians would be happy too since they would be ruled by Muslims as opposed to Jews.

Jordan tried to give palestinians citizenship, but that did not work out well and ended up killing some 20,000 or so PLO fighters after black September

 

[The Rabbi]

That's a great idea. Take half the West Bank and give the other half to Jordan, and let them sort it out. I'm sure Jordan would be happy for the extra land, since they have about a million Syrian refugees they had to take in recently. The Palestinians would be happy too since they would be ruled by Muslims as opposed to Jews.

Nah, keep all the land, ship the Pallies all to Syria. I hear there's room.

Jordan has already rejected that option.
No one wants the Palestinians. They are the inner city Negroes of the Middle East.

 

[Lipush]

Jordan doesn't want the WB or the headache of the Palestinians living there.

 

[RoccoR]

aris2chat, Roudy, et al,

Well --- I think our friend "aris2chat" is very much on track.

Disengagement: Office of History, Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.​

That's a great idea. Take half the West Bank and give the other half to Jordan, and let them sort it out. I'm sure Jordan would be happy for the extra land, since they have about a million Syrian refugees they had to take in recently. The Palestinians would be happy too since they would be ruled by Muslims as opposed to Jews.

Jordan tried to give palestinians citizenship, but that did not work out well and ended up killing some 20,000 or so PLO fighters after black September

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure that the Arab Palestinians would be happy --- and I'm not sure that the Jordanians would give it any serious consideration. The Kingdom tried to help the Arab Palestinians once before and were given nothing but disrespect, violent insurrection, and trouble for their efforts.

Why would the Kingdom even consider trusting the people of the West Bank?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Boston1]

I think it goes a bit beyond just that Rocco. International law allows for some instances where a citizen in declared persona non gratis and can be stripped of their citizenship and expelled from their former country. But there are some odd ball rules surrounding it, like how many generations you've been a citizen and whatever.

But the same does not apply to non citizens or permanent residents.

So the stronger element of international law as does the geneva conventions allow of the expulsion of enemies of the state

See
Principles of International Law - Page 248 - Google Books Result

While Jordan was created under the mandate for palestine its just as obligated to accept the palestinians as the Israeli's are except for one thing. These particular palestinians must be judged under either the mandate or under the geneva conventions as individuals. While Israel has the wider brush so to speak for expulsion Jordan as the sister nation of palestine is the next most responsible party to provide refuge for its own people.

And yes I'm talking about what no one wants to discuss. Anexation of the disputed territories and expulsion of any hostiles suspected hostiles or those suspected of assisting hostiles under the Geneva conventions rules for war.

The situation has gone on long enough and IMHO its high time something a little more drastic be done.

All within established international law of course.

Throw the bums out

And not cede another inch to the Muslim Arab colonists.

 

[aris2chat]

aris2chat, Roudy, et al,

Well --- I think our friend "aris2chat" is very much on track.

Disengagement: Office of History, Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.​

That's a great idea. Take half the West Bank and give the other half to Jordan, and let them sort it out. I'm sure Jordan would be happy for the extra land, since they have about a million Syrian refugees they had to take in recently. The Palestinians would be happy too since they would be ruled by Muslims as opposed to Jews.

Jordan tried to give palestinians citizenship, but that did not work out well and ended up killing some 20,000 or so PLO fighters after black September

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure that the Arab Palestinians would be happy --- and I'm not sure that the Jordanians would give it any serious consideration. The Kingdom tried to help the Arab Palestinians once before and were given nothing but disrespect, violent insurrection, and trouble for their efforts.

Why would the Kingdom even consider trusting the people of the West Bank?

Most Respectfully,
R

Why Is Jordan Keeping Out Palestinian Refugees?
Jordan: We Do Not Want Palestinians
Jordan: We do not want Palestinians

 

[Indeependent]

The Revisionist sites will simply keep pushing Israel's "Borders" west until Israel no longer exists.

 

[RoccoR]

Boston1, et al,

Well, I think that it is time to relook at the entire concept of "International Law." Just over a decade ago, I was marveling at how some people could even rationally conceive of certain topics. The one symposium that caught my attention at the time was:

A Weapon to Destroy Israel:
Arab States' Struggle Against Solving the Palestinian Refugee Problem
(Downloadable at this link.)​

"If the Arabs return to Israel, Israel will cease to exist." (Gamal Abdel Nasser)

"Deputy head of the Muslim Brotherhood's political arm in Egypt says that Israel would cease to exist by the end of the decade."

Once I understood this, I understood the need to protect Israel.

All within established international law of course.
Throw the bums out
And not cede another inch to the Muslim Arab colonists.

(COMMENT)

It is about moral and ethical mind sets.

The Arab rulers treated the Arab refugees … as a weapon with which to strike at Israel. This concept has expanded to roles more violent than what was experienced in the past.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

aris2chat, et al,

There are a number of reasons for this.

Why Is Jordan Keeping Out Palestinian Refugees?
Jordan: We Do Not Want Palestinians
Jordan: We do not want Palestinians

(COMMENT)

The most compelling reason is that they turned-out to be Black September 1970. The PLO Fedayeen Fighters of the early 1970s attempted to over-through the Jordanian Kingdom. Black September's (BSO) assault on the Olympic Village apartments on September 5, 1972, and carried-out a couple of aircraft hijackings that were not in Jordan's best interest.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roudy]

aris2chat, Roudy, et al,

Well --- I think our friend "aris2chat" is very much on track.

Disengagement: Office of History, Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.​

That's a great idea. Take half the West Bank and give the other half to Jordan, and let them sort it out. I'm sure Jordan would be happy for the extra land, since they have about a million Syrian refugees they had to take in recently. The Palestinians would be happy too since they would be ruled by Muslims as opposed to Jews.

Jordan tried to give palestinians citizenship, but that did not work out well and ended up killing some 20,000 or so PLO fighters after black September

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure that the Arab Palestinians would be happy --- and I'm not sure that the Jordanians would give it any serious consideration. The Kingdom tried to help the Arab Palestinians once before and were given nothing but disrespect, violent insurrection, and trouble for their efforts.

Why would the Kingdom even consider trusting the people of the West Bank?

Most Respectfully,
R

Once their plan to destroy the Jewish state failed, the Jordanains occupied the West Bank, and according to Palestinian leaders, kept their people in "concentration camp conditions" for 20 years. Which gave rise to Black September in which the Jordanians killed over 20,000 Palestinians.

So of course there is a lot of bad blood between them, however this conflict has always been about religious intolerance and Muslim Arab inability to accept a Jewish state of any sort in the region.

 

[Indeependent]

aris2chat, Roudy, et al,

Well --- I think our friend "aris2chat" is very much on track.

Disengagement: Office of History, Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.​

That's a great idea. Take half the West Bank and give the other half to Jordan, and let them sort it out. I'm sure Jordan would be happy for the extra land, since they have about a million Syrian refugees they had to take in recently. The Palestinians would be happy too since they would be ruled by Muslims as opposed to Jews.

Jordan tried to give palestinians citizenship, but that did not work out well and ended up killing some 20,000 or so PLO fighters after black September

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure that the Arab Palestinians would be happy --- and I'm not sure that the Jordanians would give it any serious consideration. The Kingdom tried to help the Arab Palestinians once before and were given nothing but disrespect, violent insurrection, and trouble for their efforts.

Why would the Kingdom even consider trusting the people of the West Bank?

Most Respectfully,
R

Once their plan to destroy the Jewish state failed, the Jordanains occupied the West Bank, and according to Palestinian leaders, kept their people in "concentration camp conditions" for 20 years. Which gave rise to Black September in which the Jordanians killed over 20,000 Palestinians.

So of course there is a lot of bad blood between them, however this conflict has always been about religious intolerance and Muslim Arab inability to accept a Jewish state of any sort in the region.

Accept a Jewish State?
They can't even accept each other!

 

[Boston1]

Boston1, et al,

Well, I think that it is time to relook at the entire concept of "International Law." Just over a decade ago, I was marveling at how some people could even rationally conceive of certain topics. The one symposium that caught my attention at the time was:

A Weapon to Destroy Israel:
Arab States' Struggle Against Solving the Palestinian Refugee Problem
(Downloadable at this link.)​

"If the Arabs return to Israel, Israel will cease to exist." (Gamal Abdel Nasser)

"Deputy head of the Muslim Brotherhood's political arm in Egypt says that Israel would cease to exist by the end of the decade."

Once I understood this, I understood the need to protect Israel.

All within established international law of course.
Throw the bums out
And not cede another inch to the Muslim Arab colonists.

(COMMENT)

It is about moral and ethical mind sets.

The Arab rulers treated the Arab refugees … as a weapon with which to strike at Israel. This concept has expanded to roles more violent than what was experienced in the past.

Most Respectfully,
R

The idea that the Arab states would use the refugees as weapons really wasn't considered when any of the various legal instruments were written that govern this conflict. It goes against anything the west considered morally or ethically possible. Its the culture clash, we value life, they value death. When was the last time you ever heard about an Israeli suicide bomber ?

This is one of many reasons I believe its the more ethical thing to do, expel the Arab Muslim colonists so the native peoples can live in peace.

Give the two state solution a chance. Jordan and Israel.

There is ample support for the treatment of refugees who participate in hostile acts against the host nation within the Geneva conventions to justify expelling the vast majority of Arab Muslims from Israeli controlled areas.

Its kinda a no brainer actually as the provisions for the treatment of combatants is also so clearly laid out in the conventions.

But the idea of ceding one more inch of Israel to the Arab Muslim colonists is just irresponsible in the extreme.

Israel cannot afford to be complacent

 

[Shusha]

Oh, don't misunderstand me, I know Jordan would never go for it. Its just a thought experiment. In particular, I was thinking about the response of the Palestinians -- would it become more obvious under Jordan's rule that they really don't care about a state of their own but only to get rid of the Jewish one. And would the outcry of the international community change if it shifted from Israel to Jordan? Would there be worldwide boycotts and protests about Jordan not giving Palestine a state?