CDZ What was the world like when guns did not exist?

[Moonglow]

Even before guns existed.....they had weapon control laws in every country .... the ruling class made sure to keep weapons out of the hands of the peasants...

Hmm gotta love those conservative monarchies..

Yes...conservative in Europe is not a conservative in the U.S.....

Oh yes they are it stands for the same things....

 

[MaryL]

So did the neanderthals worry about say, teenagers abusing flint tools, mass sliicings in teaching caves or perhaps their precocious preteens would otherwise start a fire nobody wanted?

 

[2aguy]

Even before guns existed.....they had weapon control laws in every country .... the ruling class made sure to keep weapons out of the hands of the peasants...

Hmm gotta love those conservative monarchies..

Yes...conservative in Europe is not a conservative in the U.S.....

Oh yes they are it stands for the same things....

No...actually, it doesn't....Conservatives in Europe defend monarchies....the Conservatives today are the Classical liberals of the founding.....completely different belief system using the same name...

 

[alang1216]

I think it is fairly obvious that at one point in human history, guns did not exist anywhere on the planet....and according to anti gun extremists, this led to a world that was full of peace, and joy and harmony.

I disagree......I think if you actually look at history, when guns did not exist, the strong raped, robbed, murdered and enslaved the weak...who pretty much had to take it......that professional sword swingers controlled the world....owned the slaves and pretty much ruled by the Might Makes Right rule....

I think that guns were a gift.....that they have allowed freedom to spread across the world, and have allowed normal, good people, to devote their lives to their own pursuits, while allowing them the ability to protect themselves without having to devote their lives to martial skills.....


So....was history before guns existed peace, joy and harmony...... or was it more brutal than it is today...?

Human nature has not changed so the world was no less violent before guns. What is different is the industrial scale of the killing. I seem to recall reading about a Medieval battle between armored knights. The battle raged for hours but the only fatality was a knight who was thrown from his horse. Extreme example but contrast that to WWI where the machine gun and artillery killed by the millions. It seems obvious to me you can kill more people in a given time with an AR-15 than you can with a machete.

 

[2aguy]

I think it is fairly obvious that at one point in human history, guns did not exist anywhere on the planet....and according to anti gun extremists, this led to a world that was full of peace, and joy and harmony.

I disagree......I think if you actually look at history, when guns did not exist, the strong raped, robbed, murdered and enslaved the weak...who pretty much had to take it......that professional sword swingers controlled the world....owned the slaves and pretty much ruled by the Might Makes Right rule....

I think that guns were a gift.....that they have allowed freedom to spread across the world, and have allowed normal, good people, to devote their lives to their own pursuits, while allowing them the ability to protect themselves without having to devote their lives to martial skills.....


So....was history before guns existed peace, joy and harmony...... or was it more brutal than it is today...?

Human nature has not changed so the world was no less violent before guns. What is different is the industrial scale of the killing. I seem to recall reading about a Medieval battle between armored knights. The battle raged for hours but the only fatality was a knight who was thrown from his horse. Extreme example but contrast that to WWI where the machine gun and artillery killed by the millions. It seems obvious to me you can kill more people in a given time with an AR-15 than you can with a machete.

And the victim with his own gun can stop the attacker with the rifle..... That is the miracle of guns....the victim can actually fight a bigger, stronger and even an armed opponent and win...

 

[miketx]

Considerable Googling suggests there were lot less mass shootings...which kind of proves that less guns means less mass shootings.

Well now lookie here! One of "Them" claims before guns there were less mass shootings. What is the term for this? Willful something? Because before guns there were NO mass shootings. But there was plenty of mass killings to satisfy the butchers.

 

[AZGAL]

Hungry people have always existed...and therein lies a conflict...with other beings...

 

[eflatminor]

Human beings are the most violent animal ever to walk the earth.
Anyone who denies this is too stupid to bother with.

Way to keep an open mind...

Mind mind is completely open to people who aren't stupid

Thanks for making my point.

Feel free to waste your time with idiots

Apparently, I just did.

 

[Pop23]

I think it is fairly obvious that at one point in human history, guns did not exist anywhere on the planet....and according to anti gun extremists, this led to a world that was full of peace, and joy and harmony.

I disagree......I think if you actually look at history, when guns did not exist, the strong raped, robbed, murdered and enslaved the weak...who pretty much had to take it......that professional sword swingers controlled the world....owned the slaves and pretty much ruled by the Might Makes Right rule....

I think that guns were a gift.....that they have allowed freedom to spread across the world, and have allowed normal, good people, to devote their lives to their own pursuits, while allowing them the ability to protect themselves without having to devote their lives to martial skills.....


So....was history before guns existed peace, joy and harmony...... or was it more brutal than it is today...?

I sometimes feel old enough to give a first hand account!

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I think it is fairly obvious that at one point in human history, guns did not exist anywhere on the planet....and according to anti gun extremists, this led to a world that was full of peace, and joy and harmony.

I disagree......I think if you actually look at history, when guns did not exist, the strong raped, robbed, murdered and enslaved the weak...who pretty much had to take it......that professional sword swingers controlled the world....owned the slaves and pretty much ruled by the Might Makes Right rule....

I think that guns were a gift.....that they have allowed freedom to spread across the world, and have allowed normal, good people, to devote their lives to their own pursuits, while allowing them the ability to protect themselves without having to devote their lives to martial skills.....


So....was history before guns existed peace, joy and harmony...... or was it more brutal than it is today...?

Is there anyone who believes humans suddenly became violent with the invention of gun powder and/or guns?

Ask yourself which came first, the chicken or the egg.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Human beings are the most violent animal ever to walk the earth.
Anyone who denies this is too stupid to bother with.

Way to keep an open mind...

Mind mind is completely open to people who aren't stupid

Thanks for making my point.

Feel free to waste your time with idiots

Apparently, I just did.

Says the moron who denies that human beings are the single most violent animals to ever walk the earth

 

[Toronado3800]

Considerable Googling suggests there were lot less mass shootings...which kind of proves that less guns means less mass shootings.

There was genocide before guns and banning all guns will not end the savage ways of humanity...

Humans will turn to something else and when they do will you then realize it is the human factor and not the gun itself?

Except guns exist now.....that means that if you ban guns, only the criminals will have them....

That is true. I would think after a few decades the supply would begin to dry up and the ones in circulation would get expensive.

 

[2aguy]

Considerable Googling suggests there were lot less mass shootings...which kind of proves that less guns means less mass shootings.

There was genocide before guns and banning all guns will not end the savage ways of humanity...

Humans will turn to something else and when they do will you then realize it is the human factor and not the gun itself?

Except guns exist now.....that means that if you ban guns, only the criminals will have them....

That is true. I would think after a few decades the supply would begin to dry up and the ones in circulation would get expensive.

It doesn't work that way....guns are too important a tool for them to go away now....in fact, they just found an illegal gun factory in Canada....run by drug gangs, and the Mexican drug cartels are building gun factories just across the border...and those guns do not have any form of serial number or identification..so for all those who want to register guns? Ain't gonna work....

 

[Toronado3800]

Considerable Googling suggests there were lot less mass shootings...which kind of proves that less guns means less mass shootings.

There was genocide before guns and banning all guns will not end the savage ways of humanity...

Humans will turn to something else and when they do will you then realize it is the human factor and not the gun itself?

Except guns exist now.....that means that if you ban guns, only the criminals will have them....

That is true. I would think after a few decades the supply would begin to dry up and the ones in circulation would get expensive.

It doesn't work that way....guns are too important a tool for them to go away now....in fact, they just found an illegal gun factory in Canada....run by drug gangs, and the Mexican drug cartels are building gun factories just across the border...and those guns do not have any form of serial number or identification..so for all those who want to register guns? Ain't gonna work....

Wait,

Are you saying Canada doesn't have roughly 1/3 the guns per capita as the U.S?

Look, I own a gun. I know what the 2nd was intended to allow. I just like just being aware.

Like standing behind a Supreme Court Decision about guns is a slap in the face to every anti-abortion folks who are trying to undo a Supreme Court decision.

And honest, everything I read says fewer Canadians per capita are murdered by guns every year than Americans. That dives into a demographics battle. Even if you discount black male deaths the we still "beat" Canada I think.

 

[Pop23]

I think it is fairly obvious that at one point in human history, guns did not exist anywhere on the planet....and according to anti gun extremists, this led to a world that was full of peace, and joy and harmony.

I disagree......I think if you actually look at history, when guns did not exist, the strong raped, robbed, murdered and enslaved the weak...who pretty much had to take it......that professional sword swingers controlled the world....owned the slaves and pretty much ruled by the Might Makes Right rule....

I think that guns were a gift.....that they have allowed freedom to spread across the world, and have allowed normal, good people, to devote their lives to their own pursuits, while allowing them the ability to protect themselves without having to devote their lives to martial skills.....


So....was history before guns existed peace, joy and harmony...... or was it more brutal than it is today...?

Human nature has not changed so the world was no less violent before guns. What is different is the industrial scale of the killing. I seem to recall reading about a Medieval battle between armored knights. The battle raged for hours but the only fatality was a knight who was thrown from his horse. Extreme example but contrast that to WWI where the machine gun and artillery killed by the millions. It seems obvious to me you can kill more people in a given time with an AR-15 than you can with a machete.

And the caveman didn't feed their offspring SSRI Antidepressants either, turning them into killing machines.

 

[2aguy]

Considerable Googling suggests there were lot less mass shootings...which kind of proves that less guns means less mass shootings.

There was genocide before guns and banning all guns will not end the savage ways of humanity...

Humans will turn to something else and when they do will you then realize it is the human factor and not the gun itself?

Except guns exist now.....that means that if you ban guns, only the criminals will have them....

That is true. I would think after a few decades the supply would begin to dry up and the ones in circulation would get expensive.

It doesn't work that way....guns are too important a tool for them to go away now....in fact, they just found an illegal gun factory in Canada....run by drug gangs, and the Mexican drug cartels are building gun factories just across the border...and those guns do not have any form of serial number or identification..so for all those who want to register guns? Ain't gonna work....

Wait,

Are you saying Canada doesn't have roughly 1/3 the guns per capita as the U.S?

Look, I own a gun. I know what the 2nd was intended to allow. I just like just being aware.

Like standing behind a Supreme Court Decision about guns is a slap in the face to every anti-abortion folks who are trying to undo a Supreme Court decision.

And honest, everything I read says fewer Canadians per capita are murdered by guns every year than Americans. That dives into a demographics battle. Even if you discount black male deaths the we still "beat" Canada I think.

Gun crime rates are going up in Canada.....their culture and values effect that rate, but it is going up, not down.

ttp://www.macleans.ca/opinion/gun-violence-isnt-just-a-u-s-problem-and-canada-isnt-immune/

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

Confidence in the federal government’s ability to tackle gun violence in Surrey, B.C. is so low that many residents have contemplated severing ties with the RCMP and setting up their own municipal police force. Surrey Mayor Linda Hepner recently announced the city would be creating its own task force to address gang and gun violence.

 

[Toronado3800]

There was genocide before guns and banning all guns will not end the savage ways of humanity...

Humans will turn to something else and when they do will you then realize it is the human factor and not the gun itself?

Except guns exist now.....that means that if you ban guns, only the criminals will have them....

That is true. I would think after a few decades the supply would begin to dry up and the ones in circulation would get expensive.

It doesn't work that way....guns are too important a tool for them to go away now....in fact, they just found an illegal gun factory in Canada....run by drug gangs, and the Mexican drug cartels are building gun factories just across the border...and those guns do not have any form of serial number or identification..so for all those who want to register guns? Ain't gonna work....

Wait,

Are you saying Canada doesn't have roughly 1/3 the guns per capita as the U.S?

Look, I own a gun. I know what the 2nd was intended to allow. I just like just being aware.

Like standing behind a Supreme Court Decision about guns is a slap in the face to every anti-abortion folks who are trying to undo a Supreme Court decision.

And honest, everything I read says fewer Canadians per capita are murdered by guns every year than Americans. That dives into a demographics battle. Even if you discount black male deaths the we still "beat" Canada I think.

Gun crime rates are going up in Canada.....their culture and values effect that rate, but it is going up, not down.

ttp://www.macleans.ca/opinion/gun-violence-isnt-just-a-u-s-problem-and-canada-isnt-immune/

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

Confidence in the federal government’s ability to tackle gun violence in Surrey, B.C. is so low that many residents have contemplated severing ties with the RCMP and setting up their own municipal police force. Surrey Mayor Linda Hepner recently announced the city would be creating its own task force to address gang and gun violence.

The part about gun crime rates going up in Canada misses the point. Its a good counter when ppl can't talk back though because it gives you something to say instead of just, "duh, fewer guns, less gun crime.". The important part there is gun crime is lower.

You need a percentage of women who were able to fight of a man attacking them because the woman had a gun type stat.

 

[2aguy]

Except guns exist now.....that means that if you ban guns, only the criminals will have them....

That is true. I would think after a few decades the supply would begin to dry up and the ones in circulation would get expensive.

It doesn't work that way....guns are too important a tool for them to go away now....in fact, they just found an illegal gun factory in Canada....run by drug gangs, and the Mexican drug cartels are building gun factories just across the border...and those guns do not have any form of serial number or identification..so for all those who want to register guns? Ain't gonna work....

Wait,

Are you saying Canada doesn't have roughly 1/3 the guns per capita as the U.S?

Look, I own a gun. I know what the 2nd was intended to allow. I just like just being aware.

Like standing behind a Supreme Court Decision about guns is a slap in the face to every anti-abortion folks who are trying to undo a Supreme Court decision.

And honest, everything I read says fewer Canadians per capita are murdered by guns every year than Americans. That dives into a demographics battle. Even if you discount black male deaths the we still "beat" Canada I think.

Gun crime rates are going up in Canada.....their culture and values effect that rate, but it is going up, not down.

ttp://www.macleans.ca/opinion/gun-violence-isnt-just-a-u-s-problem-and-canada-isnt-immune/

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

Confidence in the federal government’s ability to tackle gun violence in Surrey, B.C. is so low that many residents have contemplated severing ties with the RCMP and setting up their own municipal police force. Surrey Mayor Linda Hepner recently announced the city would be creating its own task force to address gang and gun violence.

The part about gun crime rates going up in Canada misses the point. Its a good counter when ppl can't talk back though because it gives you something to say instead of just, "duh, fewer guns, less gun crime.". The important part there is gun crime is lower.

You need a percentage of women who were able to fight of a man attacking them because the woman had a gun type stat.

You don't know what you are talking about......

I show you that gun crime in Canada is going up....regardless of their gun control laws, and then you make the illogical point that less guns = less gun crime....while the gun crime rate is going up in Canada....it is also going up in Britain, Sweden, Australia......

You have been fooled into thinking that crime rates remain frozen in amber....never to change, no matter how the culture and the society changes...

Canada....

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

As compared to the U.S.....where more guns = less gun crime...


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[Pop23]

I think it is fairly obvious that at one point in human history, guns did not exist anywhere on the planet....and according to anti gun extremists, this led to a world that was full of peace, and joy and harmony.

I disagree......I think if you actually look at history, when guns did not exist, the strong raped, robbed, murdered and enslaved the weak...who pretty much had to take it......that professional sword swingers controlled the world....owned the slaves and pretty much ruled by the Might Makes Right rule....

I think that guns were a gift.....that they have allowed freedom to spread across the world, and have allowed normal, good people, to devote their lives to their own pursuits, while allowing them the ability to protect themselves without having to devote their lives to martial skills.....


So....was history before guns existed peace, joy and harmony...... or was it more brutal than it is today...?

Human nature has not changed so the world was no less violent before guns. What is different is the industrial scale of the killing. I seem to recall reading about a Medieval battle between armored knights. The battle raged for hours but the only fatality was a knight who was thrown from his horse. Extreme example but contrast that to WWI where the machine gun and artillery killed by the millions. It seems obvious to me you can kill more people in a given time with an AR-15 than you can with a machete.

And fight off far more rapists. Just sayin

 

[Toronado3800]

That is true. I would think after a few decades the supply would begin to dry up and the ones in circulation would get expensive.

It doesn't work that way....guns are too important a tool for them to go away now....in fact, they just found an illegal gun factory in Canada....run by drug gangs, and the Mexican drug cartels are building gun factories just across the border...and those guns do not have any form of serial number or identification..so for all those who want to register guns? Ain't gonna work....

Wait,

Are you saying Canada doesn't have roughly 1/3 the guns per capita as the U.S?

Look, I own a gun. I know what the 2nd was intended to allow. I just like just being aware.

Like standing behind a Supreme Court Decision about guns is a slap in the face to every anti-abortion folks who are trying to undo a Supreme Court decision.

And honest, everything I read says fewer Canadians per capita are murdered by guns every year than Americans. That dives into a demographics battle. Even if you discount black male deaths the we still "beat" Canada I think.

Gun crime rates are going up in Canada.....their culture and values effect that rate, but it is going up, not down.

ttp://www.macleans.ca/opinion/gun-violence-isnt-just-a-u-s-problem-and-canada-isnt-immune/

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

Confidence in the federal government’s ability to tackle gun violence in Surrey, B.C. is so low that many residents have contemplated severing ties with the RCMP and setting up their own municipal police force. Surrey Mayor Linda Hepner recently announced the city would be creating its own task force to address gang and gun violence.

The part about gun crime rates going up in Canada misses the point. Its a good counter when ppl can't talk back though because it gives you something to say instead of just, "duh, fewer guns, less gun crime.". The important part there is gun crime is lower.

You need a percentage of women who were able to fight of a man attacking them because the woman had a gun type stat.

You don't know what you are talking about......

I show you that gun crime in Canada is going up....regardless of their gun control laws, and then you make the illogical point that less guns = less gun crime....while the gun crime rate is going up in Canada....it is also going up in Britain, Sweden, Australia......

You have been fooled into thinking that crime rates remain frozen in amber....never to change, no matter how the culture and the society changes...

Canada....

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

As compared to the U.S.....where more guns = less gun crime...


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

We may be talking past eachother.

I am saying that for whatever reason fewer ppl per capita are murdered in Canada than the U.S. so using a rise in their rate even though its lower is a false stat. List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

Is there a somewhat similar to the U.S. country where guns are illegal we can use?