What the science says

[IanC]

now you are claiming energy is moving at the speed of light during conduction? hahahahahaha.

Not at all...just you making up arguments to rail against again...I never suggested any such thing.

your jihad against radiation being free to move in any direction reminds me of the belief in the 'ether'. temperature is a meaningless concept for individual particles. temperature is only a valid concept for large cohorts of particles. even then temperature does not capture the total energy of the cohort as much of the energy is potential energy. can a high speed (high temp)/low potential energy particle radiate towards a low speed/high potential particle even if the total energy contained in the low speed (low temp) particle is greater than the high speed (high temp) particle? why is potential energy ignored in your world view?

Radiation is free to move in any direction just like a rock is free to fall in any direction it cares to fall.

Does gravity stop in the face of stronger gravity, or does the matter move in the direction of the net force? Are gravitons smart too?

Actually, that IS an interesting question. I don't think we have the ability to measure that yet. It's amazing how little we know about gravity.

Yes, it's pretty tricky all right. Does gravity bend light because space gets warped or because the momentum carried by the photons are a proxy for mass? The calculations seem to give similar numbers.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

and then a better than 50% chance it emits it out away from Earth ,

Or emitted toward the ground (shhhh.....that's back radiation.....shhhhh)

I take it back, it cannot head back to a warmer area, it ALL radiates away. It's not random at all.

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

 

[IanC]

I take it back, it cannot head back to a warmer area, it ALL radiates away. It's not random at all.

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

where does your heat come from then?

From oxidizing constituents of food in the cells of my body, of course.

 

[westwall]

now you are claiming energy is moving at the speed of light during conduction? hahahahahaha.

Not at all...just you making up arguments to rail against again...I never suggested any such thing.

your jihad against radiation being free to move in any direction reminds me of the belief in the 'ether'. temperature is a meaningless concept for individual particles. temperature is only a valid concept for large cohorts of particles. even then temperature does not capture the total energy of the cohort as much of the energy is potential energy. can a high speed (high temp)/low potential energy particle radiate towards a low speed/high potential particle even if the total energy contained in the low speed (low temp) particle is greater than the high speed (high temp) particle? why is potential energy ignored in your world view?

Radiation is free to move in any direction just like a rock is free to fall in any direction it cares to fall.

Does gravity stop in the face of stronger gravity, or does the matter move in the direction of the net force? Are gravitons smart too?

Actually, that IS an interesting question. I don't think we have the ability to measure that yet. It's amazing how little we know about gravity.

Yes, it's pretty tricky all right. Does gravity bend light because space gets warped or because the momentum carried by the photons are a proxy for mass? The calculations seem to give similar numbers.

Who knows. We have no idea what gravity even IS. We have no idea how it works. The current theory is gravitons emanating little gravity fields are the culprits, but we truly have no clue. Gravity is the most pervasive, yet least known force at work in the universe.

 

[jc456]

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

where does your heat come from then?

From oxidizing constituents of food in the cells of my body, of course.

does all of that get radiated? Isn't it heat?

 

[IanC]

I take it back, it cannot head back to a warmer area, it ALL radiates away. It's not random at all.

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

First, you define what you mean by 'heat'.

I'm tired of the goalposts being shifted when the definition is changed in response to my answer.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

First, you define what you mean by 'heat'.

I'm tired of the goalposts being shifted when the definition is changed in response to my answer.

Heat: I know it when I feel it

 

[IanC]

now you are claiming energy is moving at the speed of light during conduction? hahahahahaha.

Not at all...just you making up arguments to rail against again...I never suggested any such thing.

your jihad against radiation being free to move in any direction reminds me of the belief in the 'ether'. temperature is a meaningless concept for individual particles. temperature is only a valid concept for large cohorts of particles. even then temperature does not capture the total energy of the cohort as much of the energy is potential energy. can a high speed (high temp)/low potential energy particle radiate towards a low speed/high potential particle even if the total energy contained in the low speed (low temp) particle is greater than the high speed (high temp) particle? why is potential energy ignored in your world view?

Radiation is free to move in any direction just like a rock is free to fall in any direction it cares to fall.

Does gravity stop in the face of stronger gravity, or does the matter move in the direction of the net force? Are gravitons smart too?

Actually, that IS an interesting question. I don't think we have the ability to measure that yet. It's amazing how little we know about gravity.

Yes, it's pretty tricky all right. Does gravity bend light because space gets warped or because the momentum carried by the photons are a proxy for mass? The calculations seem to give similar numbers.

Who knows. We have no idea what gravity even IS. We have no idea how it works. The current theory is gravitons emanating little gravity fields are the culprits, but we truly have no clue. Gravity is the most pervasive, yet least known force at work in the universe.

Yup, we can examine and predict the effects with startling precision but the underlying mechanism is totally hidden.

 

[IanC]

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

First, you define what you mean by 'heat'.

I'm tired of the goalposts being shifted when the definition is changed in response to my answer.

Heat: I know it when I feel it

That type of heat is nerve stimulation in the parasympathetic nervous system of your body.

 

[SSDD]

now you are claiming energy is moving at the speed of light during conduction? hahahahahaha.

Not at all...just you making up arguments to rail against again...I never suggested any such thing.

your jihad against radiation being free to move in any direction reminds me of the belief in the 'ether'. temperature is a meaningless concept for individual particles. temperature is only a valid concept for large cohorts of particles. even then temperature does not capture the total energy of the cohort as much of the energy is potential energy. can a high speed (high temp)/low potential energy particle radiate towards a low speed/high potential particle even if the total energy contained in the low speed (low temp) particle is greater than the high speed (high temp) particle? why is potential energy ignored in your world view?

Radiation is free to move in any direction just like a rock is free to fall in any direction it cares to fall.

Does gravity stop in the face of stronger gravity, or does the matter move in the direction of the net force? Are gravitons smart too?

Any proof of gravitons? You just jump on every bandwagon that passes along don't you?

And I get that an idiot like rocks might construe in his mind that a thing must be smart to obey the forces at work in the universe....but for you to suggest the same thing is to put yourself on an intellectual par with him....you know good and damned well that neither energy, nor theoretical particles must be intelligent to behave as they must...

 

[SSDD]

I think it's funny that some people that denied the existence of photons, relativity, and quantum theory in the recent past are now latching on to one of the most esoteric properties proposed.

Hey, if you are going to believe in them, then you must accept them for what we believe them to be...personally, I think what we see re: wave particle duality is just our failure to completely understand waves.

 

[SSDD]

I think it's funny that some people that denied the existence of photons, relativity, and quantum theory in the recent past are now latching on to one of the most esoteric properties proposed.

Even funnier how we live in a Universe that mostly stuff we can only imagine: Dark matter and dark energy, but some are absolutely sure they can bend the Universe to their laws

Even funnier that some believe they actually understand what is happening at the sub atomic level...and act and behave as if these theoretical particles are real and practically drinking buddies.

 

[SSDD]

and then a better than 50% chance it emits it out away from Earth ,

Or emitted toward the ground (shhhh.....that's back radiation.....shhhhh)

I take it back, it cannot head back to a warmer area, it ALL radiates away. It's not random at all.

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

As if you could make that statement with anything like real honesty...you are doing nothing more than expressing an opinion which can not be verified or proven by any means possible....acting as if you actually know this stuff to be fact is just ridiculous ian...you may as well tell me about the tooth fairy's taste in socks....pretending that you are spouting actual knowledge instead of just stories that we tell ourselves till such time as we actually start to learn something real about the sub atomic world just makes you look like a schmekel.

 

[SSDD]

I take it back, it cannot head back to a warmer area, it ALL radiates away. It's not random at all.

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

 

[SSDD]

Who knows. We have no idea what gravity even IS. We have no idea how it works. The current theory is gravitons emanating little gravity fields are the culprits, but we truly have no clue. Gravity is the most pervasive, yet least known force at work in the universe.

The most pervasive force that we know about....perhaps the force that drives all energy movement is even more pervasive and yet, we remain completely unaware...at this point, we don't even know what we don't know.

 

[IanC]

I take it back, it cannot head back to a warmer area, it ALL radiates away. It's not random at all.

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

As if you could make that statement with anything like real honesty...you are doing nothing more than expressing an opinion which can not be verified or proven by any means possible....acting as if you actually know this stuff to be fact is just ridiculous ian...you may as well tell me about the tooth fairy's taste in socks....pretending that you are spouting actual knowledge instead of just stories that we tell ourselves till such time as we actually start to learn something real about the sub atomic world just makes you look like a schmekel.

I think you are missing all the work that has been done on atomic orbitals, molecular orbitals, etc Atomic orbital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Xray spectography on crystals has actually produced pictures of orbitals. I imagine you think it's all a giant hoax though.

 

[IanC]

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

I dont find joe Postma to be a 'equally credible source'.

 

[IanC]

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

So what is heat then?

I have found equally credible sources that say that heat is a form of energy in and of itself...and that heat is nothing more than the "fingerprint" left by energy moving from one place to another....it is clear that at this point, we don't really know...but people like Ian are quite sure that they already know and are perfectly willing to tell you all about it....

transfer of energy by radiation is reasonably simple and can easily described.

transfer of energy by conduction in condensed matter is tremendously complex and cannot be easily described.

 

[SSDD]

it cannot head back to a warmer area,

Why not? Tiny thermometers?

It's not random at all.

Smart photons? Which laws cover that?

The why of it is probably wrapped up in the creation of the Universe, that's just how it works.

If they don't experience time as we do, why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

that's just how it works.

Except, it doesn't. Heat isn't photons.
Photons don't care about temperature.

why do you suppose they need a thermometer?

They would need one, to see that a target was hotter and then decide not to go that way.
Instead of just using Stefan-Boltzmann, which says matter emits, based on its own temperature, not based on the temperature of the rest of the universe.

Yup, I agree.

Energy transfered by radiation is not heat. It is potential energy that may be transferred into kinetic energy via collisions of particles of matter.

As if you could make that statement with anything like real honesty...you are doing nothing more than expressing an opinion which can not be verified or proven by any means possible....acting as if you actually know this stuff to be fact is just ridiculous ian...you may as well tell me about the tooth fairy's taste in socks....pretending that you are spouting actual knowledge instead of just stories that we tell ourselves till such time as we actually start to learn something real about the sub atomic world just makes you look like a schmekel.

I think you are missing all the work that has been done on atomic orbitals, molecular orbitals, etc Atomic orbital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Xray spectography on crystals has actually produced pictures of orbitals. I imagine you think it's all a giant hoax though.

And still it remains nothing but stories that we tell ourselves till such time as we actually get a clue....mathematical models aren't reality ian...no matter how much you wish or believe they are.

 

[Crick]

Sid, you're about to step into a busy street... or, you're out in left field watching the ball rise from the bat... or you're in your car waiting to take a left turn... or you've tasted your wife's spaghetti and are now holding a salt shaker above it... or you've come across a strange dog on your morning walk and have to cross paths with it...

These are all instances in which we model reality in order to make the best judgement we can about what WILL happen. The mantra you all spout about models is based solely on the fact that they consistently show you what you don't want to see.