What the F Obama , He wants to raise the debt ceiling again

[hortysir]

I guess 5 trillion he has added to the debt was not enough. Obama Wants to Raise the Debt Ceiling Again - Yahoo! News

Bush Jr. did it 7 times and nobody bitched then.

Why now? Oh yeah.......it's because Obama did it.

Because nowadyas we're doing math with Trillions, not Billions

Quick quiz:
How many billions = one trillion?

 

[DSGE]

The FED loaned the paper money with interest

FRB: Federal Reserve Banks: Annual Report 2010

Distributions to the U.S. Treasury in the form of interest on Federal Reserve notes totaled $79,268 million in 2010, up from $47,431 million in 2009; the distributions equal net income after the deduction of dividends paid and the amount necessary to equate the Reserve Banks' surplus to paid-in capital.

The Fed gave $79 billion to the Treasury from the interest it gets performing open market operations. Exactly what I explained to you.

If you will pull a dollar bill out and take a look at it, you will notice that it says "Federal Reserve Note" at the top.

It belongs to the Federal Reserve.

The U.S. government cannot simply go out and create new money whenever it wants under our current system.

Instead, it must get it from the Federal Reserve.

So, when the U.S. government needs to borrow more money (which happens a lot these days) it goes over to the Federal Reserve and asks them for some more green pieces of paper called Federal Reserve Notes.

The Federal Reserve swaps these green pieces of paper for pink pieces of paper called U.S. Treasury bonds. The Federal Reserve either sells these U.S. Treasury bonds or they keep the bonds for themselves (which happens a lot these days).

It Is Now Mathematically Impossible To Pay Off The U.S. National Debt

Firstly, the Federal Reserve is part of the government. It's board of governors are appointed by the President and confirmed by the senate.

Second, if the government wants to borrow money, it sells treasuries to the public. The Federal Reserve is not allowed to extend credit to the US Government.

FRB: Federal Reserve Act: Section 13
FRB: Federal Reserve Act. Section 14

Those are the sections of the Federal Reserve Act outlining the powers the Fed has to buy and discount securities. They can only discount (give a loan using a security as collateral) to member banks, but in "unusual and exigent circumstances" may discount to individuals and non-banks subject to a bunch of shit. They can buy treasury securities in open market operations but they're only allowed to buy them in the open market (hence open market operations). They can't buy bonds directly from the government. Nor does the government care, because the treasury market is the deepest and most liquid in the world. Everybody wants to buy treasuries.

Yes it says "Federal Reserve Note" because it's a liability of the Federal Reserve. It's actually the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (Treasury) that actually prints the money, but the Fed has control over the supply of money.

So yeah, the government borrows from the public, not the Fed. The Fed engages in open market operations and gives the interest it earns to the government. I've given you more than sufficient evidence.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

If you will pull a dollar bill out and take a look at it, you will notice that it says "Federal Reserve Note" at the top.

It belongs to the Federal Reserve.

That's funny.

So, when the U.S. government needs to borrow more money (which happens a lot these days) it goes over to the Federal Reserve and asks them for some more green pieces of paper called Federal Reserve Notes.

The Treasury doesn't get money (especially FRNs) from the Fed. They sell bonds at auction. And when the Treasury spends money, they don't spend FRNs. They use checks or wires.

The Federal Reserve swaps these green pieces of paper for pink pieces of paper called U.S. Treasury bonds.

The Treasury doesn't accept FRNs for bonds, wires and checks only.

Wrong try again.

I have a bunch of $20s in my wallet.
They belong to me, not the Fed. Sorry.

The paper money comes from the Federal reserve which is run by a private bank and is not run by the federal government, so do try again.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

See the difference?
one was when the government had money and one is the federal reserves money

 

[DSGE]

Wrong try again.

I have a bunch of $20s in my wallet.
They belong to me, not the Fed. Sorry.

The paper money comes from the Federal reserve which is run by a private bank and is not run by the federal government, so do try again.

"run" by a private bank? Even your own fucking source said that it was run by a board of governors appointed by the President. Jesus fucking christ. Learn to read.

Second, that doesn't address what he said. The Fed isn't allowed to confiscate the $20 in our wallets. It's our property.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wrong try again.

I have a bunch of $20s in my wallet.
They belong to me, not the Fed. Sorry.

The paper money comes from the Federal reserve which is run by a private bank and is not run by the federal government, so do try again.

Did you buy your $20s from the Fed?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

See the difference?
one was when the government had money and one is the federal reserves money

Nice pics! I own some of each. So what?

 

[DSGE]

See the difference?
one was when the government had money and one is the federal reserves money

The Federal Reserve is the government! It used to say "Silver Certificate" because notes used to be redeemable in silver. Also, this isn't evidence of anything! Everybody knows that we switched to a fiduciary standard.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

See the difference?
one was when the government had money and one is the federal reserves money

The Federal Reserve is the government! It used to say "Silver Certificate" because notes used to be redeemable in silver. Also, this isn't evidence of anything! Everybody knows that we switched to a fiduciary standard.

Where exactly is the Federal Reserve?

Organizational Structure

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

See the difference?
one was when the government had money and one is the federal reserves money

The Federal Reserve is the government! It used to say "Silver Certificate" because notes used to be redeemable in silver. Also, this isn't evidence of anything! Everybody knows that we switched to a fiduciary standard.

Where exactly is the Federal Reserve?

Organizational Structure

Did the Fed confiscate the FRNs in your wallet?

 

[DSGE]

See the difference?
one was when the government had money and one is the federal reserves money

The Federal Reserve is the government! It used to say "Silver Certificate" because notes used to be redeemable in silver. Also, this isn't evidence of anything! Everybody knows that we switched to a fiduciary standard.

Where exactly is the Federal Reserve?

Organizational Structure

Oh is the Treasury the only organisation in the government, is it?

The Fed is established in the Federal Reserve Act (1913)

So far we've established that the Fed is run by people appointed by the President and confirmed by the senate (from your own source); was created by congress and delegated the job of administering the currency (Federal Reserve Act); does not loan money to the government (FRA Sections 13 and 14); gives almost all of its income back to the Treasury (Federal Reserve Annual Report 2010).

What on earth is your problem?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

FRB: Federal Reserve Banks: Annual Report 2010



The Fed gave $79 billion to the Treasury from the interest it gets performing open market operations. Exactly what I explained to you.

If you will pull a dollar bill out and take a look at it, you will notice that it says "Federal Reserve Note" at the top.

It belongs to the Federal Reserve.

The U.S. government cannot simply go out and create new money whenever it wants under our current system.

Instead, it must get it from the Federal Reserve.

So, when the U.S. government needs to borrow more money (which happens a lot these days) it goes over to the Federal Reserve and asks them for some more green pieces of paper called Federal Reserve Notes.

The Federal Reserve swaps these green pieces of paper for pink pieces of paper called U.S. Treasury bonds. The Federal Reserve either sells these U.S. Treasury bonds or they keep the bonds for themselves (which happens a lot these days).

It Is Now Mathematically Impossible To Pay Off The U.S. National Debt

Firstly, the Federal Reserve is part of the government. It's board of governors are appointed by the President and confirmed by the senate.

Second, if the government wants to borrow money, it sells treasuries to the public. The Federal Reserve is not allowed to extend credit to the US Government.

FRB: Federal Reserve Act: Section 13
FRB: Federal Reserve Act. Section 14

Those are the sections of the Federal Reserve Act outlining the powers the Fed has to buy and discount securities. They can only discount (give a loan using a security as collateral) to member banks, but in "unusual and exigent circumstances" may discount to individuals and non-banks subject to a bunch of shit. They can buy treasury securities in open market operations but they're only allowed to buy them in the open market (hence open market operations). They can't buy bonds directly from the government. Nor does the government care, because the treasury market is the deepest and most liquid in the world. Everybody wants to buy treasuries.

Yes it says "Federal Reserve Note" because it's a liability of the Federal Reserve. It's actually the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (Treasury) that actually prints the money, but the Fed has control over the supply of money.

So yeah, the government borrows from the public, not the Fed. The Fed engages in open market operations and gives the interest it earns to the government. I've given you more than sufficient evidence.

Maybe you should tell Bernanke that the fed is run by the government he seems to think it isn't.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Federal Reserve is the government! It used to say "Silver Certificate" because notes used to be redeemable in silver. Also, this isn't evidence of anything! Everybody knows that we switched to a fiduciary standard.

Where exactly is the Federal Reserve?

Organizational Structure

Oh is the Treasury the only organisation in the government, is it?

The Fed is established in the Federal Reserve Act (1913)

So far we've established that the Fed is run by people appointed by the President and confirmed by the senate (from your own source); was created by congress and delegated the job of administering the currency (Federal Reserve Act); does not loan money to the government (FRA Sections 13 and 14); gives almost all of its income back to the Treasury (Federal Reserve Annual Report 2010).

What on earth is your problem?

What's your god damn problem? The fed is not part of the U.S. government.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Where exactly is the Federal Reserve?

Organizational Structure

Oh is the Treasury the only organisation in the government, is it?

The Fed is established in the Federal Reserve Act (1913)

So far we've established that the Fed is run by people appointed by the President and confirmed by the senate (from your own source); was created by congress and delegated the job of administering the currency (Federal Reserve Act); does not loan money to the government (FRA Sections 13 and 14); gives almost all of its income back to the Treasury (Federal Reserve Annual Report 2010).

What on earth is your problem?

What's your god damn problem? The fed is not part of the U.S. government.

Then why did they give the Treasury $78.4 billion last year?

 

[DSGE]

If you will pull a dollar bill out and take a look at it, you will notice that it says "Federal Reserve Note" at the top.

It belongs to the Federal Reserve.

The U.S. government cannot simply go out and create new money whenever it wants under our current system.

Instead, it must get it from the Federal Reserve.

So, when the U.S. government needs to borrow more money (which happens a lot these days) it goes over to the Federal Reserve and asks them for some more green pieces of paper called Federal Reserve Notes.

The Federal Reserve swaps these green pieces of paper for pink pieces of paper called U.S. Treasury bonds. The Federal Reserve either sells these U.S. Treasury bonds or they keep the bonds for themselves (which happens a lot these days).

It Is Now Mathematically Impossible To Pay Off The U.S. National Debt

Firstly, the Federal Reserve is part of the government. It's board of governors are appointed by the President and confirmed by the senate.

Second, if the government wants to borrow money, it sells treasuries to the public. The Federal Reserve is not allowed to extend credit to the US Government.

FRB: Federal Reserve Act: Section 13
FRB: Federal Reserve Act. Section 14

Those are the sections of the Federal Reserve Act outlining the powers the Fed has to buy and discount securities. They can only discount (give a loan using a security as collateral) to member banks, but in "unusual and exigent circumstances" may discount to individuals and non-banks subject to a bunch of shit. They can buy treasury securities in open market operations but they're only allowed to buy them in the open market (hence open market operations). They can't buy bonds directly from the government. Nor does the government care, because the treasury market is the deepest and most liquid in the world. Everybody wants to buy treasuries.

Yes it says "Federal Reserve Note" because it's a liability of the Federal Reserve. It's actually the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (Treasury) that actually prints the money, but the Fed has control over the supply of money.

So yeah, the government borrows from the public, not the Fed. The Fed engages in open market operations and gives the interest it earns to the government. I've given you more than sufficient evidence.

Maybe you should tell Bernanke that the fed is run by the government he seems to think it isn't.

I said it's part of the government. The FOMC decides monetary policy, because everybody realised that when the executive decides monetary policy they often run high inflation to pursue short term goals rather than long term goals; but Bernanke was appointed by the President and confirmed by the senate. Private banks didn't choose him to run the Fed; the government did.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Oh is the Treasury the only organisation in the government, is it?

The Fed is established in the Federal Reserve Act (1913)

So far we've established that the Fed is run by people appointed by the President and confirmed by the senate (from your own source); was created by congress and delegated the job of administering the currency (Federal Reserve Act); does not loan money to the government (FRA Sections 13 and 14); gives almost all of its income back to the Treasury (Federal Reserve Annual Report 2010).

What on earth is your problem?

What's your god damn problem? The fed is not part of the U.S. government.

Then why did they give the Treasury $78.4 billion last year?

You seem to think they did. So tell me how did the transaction take place? Give me the total account step by step procedure with a supporting source.

 

[DSGE]

Where exactly is the Federal Reserve?

Organizational Structure

Oh is the Treasury the only organisation in the government, is it?

The Fed is established in the Federal Reserve Act (1913)

So far we've established that the Fed is run by people appointed by the President and confirmed by the senate (from your own source); was created by congress and delegated the job of administering the currency (Federal Reserve Act); does not loan money to the government (FRA Sections 13 and 14); gives almost all of its income back to the Treasury (Federal Reserve Annual Report 2010).

What on earth is your problem?

What's your god damn problem? The fed is not part of the U.S. government.

Who even cares about the fucking wording. Jesus. They're not run by private banks, they're run by people appointed by the government. Your own source says so. What are you struggling with?

 

[DSGE]

What's your god damn problem? The fed is not part of the U.S. government.

Then why did they give the Treasury $78.4 billion last year?

You seem to think they did. So tell me how did the transaction take place? Give me the total account step by step procedure with a supporting source.

Here you go: FRB: Reports to Congress

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Then why did they give the Treasury $78.4 billion last year?

You seem to think they did. So tell me how did the transaction take place? Give me the total account step by step procedure with a supporting source.

Here you go: FRB: Reports to Congress

Nope, how did the transaction take place.

 

[hortysir]

They should consider a name cahnge then