JimBowie1958
Old Fogey
- Sep 25, 2011
- 63,590
- 16,753
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The old Nazis were the dreaded enemy of World War Two and the impact of all that anti-Nazi propaganda still has weight as to even mention the Nazis in a discussion derails it most of the time.
But the Nazis were real people who had what they believed to be a moral system of values and standards that we never hear from their side of the discussion, ever. And most of us don't want to hear it, not even in a cold analytical way.
I actually met a man once decades ago when I was stationed in Germany who I suspect had been a Nazi. I didn't suspect it at first, but it became apparent later and my questions I asked him became more pointed, I suppose to draw him out. He patiently explained each and every thing that I had ever heard or read that demonized Nazism. It shook me to hear the man being so calm, so rational and so benevolent.
He explained that the Death Camps were meant to be used as a place to isolate workers or POWs who had diseases or who were too weak from malnourishment that they posed a risk to the other workers/POWs. When they did finally die their bodies were burned to prevent the disease from spreading by flies and other vectors. He explained that the Jews were put into concentration camps in the same way that the British put the Boers into concentration camps for security reasons, and as prisoners at the lowest priority in a war in which the whole nation suffered from the allied blockade that cut Germany from he primary sources of food in the Western hemisphere.
I was shaken, not toward a sympathetic view of Nazism but by how calm and how much it made sense in a utilitarian sort of way. It showed to me the danger of trusting ones own government so much that one uncritically accepted every government explanation for what it does, sight unseen.
I asked him if he believed in God. He looked like he was in his seventies at the time and he said 'of course not. I am not a child.' I then got him to explain why he didn't believe in God, and asked him to explain somethings that he couldn't. I explained to him some of my own experiences and why I took a different view of God. After about three hours of talking, he quieted down and became reflective it seemed. After a little while he finished his beer he had been sipping the whole time and said good bye. I never saw him again, but his disbelief was apparently a cocoon that he somehow used to shelter himself from his own moral responsibilities. I returned several times to where I had met him and he never returned.
So when I am comparing our two parties to the National Socialists, I am being quite objective and literal about it, shorn of the antiNazi agitprop we have been spoon fed for four generations now.
The basis of the Nazi world view was that each person had to demonstrate that they were entitled to exist and to breed. They intensely believed that a person had no intrinsic value in and of themselves, but only so far as that person had something to contribute to society. I was raised to believe that a person is obligated to contribute to society and still do to a point, and that point is that we all have the right to live and do the best we can and the government has the responsibility to not use a persons unmerited qualities as part of its procedures for treating its citizens. So while we do have intrinsic value as a person, we still have an obligation to make something of ourselves. That this is so close to what the Nazis believed causes me to want to err on the side of mercy and charitableness when we can and to defend the defenseless at every opportunity.
The Nazis also believed in group identity and group guilt. They did not care if each and every Jew committed the heinous crimes for which their state propaganda accused them of doing. The Jews as a whole group or ethnicity were guilty of the crimes of each of them. Of course the good done by Jews did not count, lol, of course not. What group is in the Jewish ideological position in todays politics?
The Nazis asserted that everything ultimately belongs to the government and what the individual is allowed to keep they should be thankful for. Is this closely to the same perspective by some in todays political system?
The Nazis said that the top executive, their Leader, was to be obeyed at all times and to not trust the things he claimed were true was disloyal. Anyone like that today?
The Nazis did not trust trial by jury and prosecutors could easily stack the deck to convict the guilty prior to a trial and usually a trial by jury was not even given anyway. It was verdict first, evidence later. Anyone notice this being the case today?
The Nazis were the ultimate ecologists, so extreme that if a car ran off the road and hit a tree, the first treatment was given to the tree to make sure it was in good condition, lol. They had draconian penalties for damaging their trees. Any similarities today?
I am not saying that any particular party is remarkably similar to the Nazis, I am just spurring one to look at the evidence and decide for themselves.
It is quite likely that within the hour some leftwing libtard will get a moderator friend to move this to some dusty side forum or just delete it altogether. But for while it lasts, I would like to read some peoples RATIONAL thoughts on the topic. I think I can predict the libtard responses now as the usual suspects are the first to show and post as always.
What so you?
But the Nazis were real people who had what they believed to be a moral system of values and standards that we never hear from their side of the discussion, ever. And most of us don't want to hear it, not even in a cold analytical way.
I actually met a man once decades ago when I was stationed in Germany who I suspect had been a Nazi. I didn't suspect it at first, but it became apparent later and my questions I asked him became more pointed, I suppose to draw him out. He patiently explained each and every thing that I had ever heard or read that demonized Nazism. It shook me to hear the man being so calm, so rational and so benevolent.
He explained that the Death Camps were meant to be used as a place to isolate workers or POWs who had diseases or who were too weak from malnourishment that they posed a risk to the other workers/POWs. When they did finally die their bodies were burned to prevent the disease from spreading by flies and other vectors. He explained that the Jews were put into concentration camps in the same way that the British put the Boers into concentration camps for security reasons, and as prisoners at the lowest priority in a war in which the whole nation suffered from the allied blockade that cut Germany from he primary sources of food in the Western hemisphere.
I was shaken, not toward a sympathetic view of Nazism but by how calm and how much it made sense in a utilitarian sort of way. It showed to me the danger of trusting ones own government so much that one uncritically accepted every government explanation for what it does, sight unseen.
I asked him if he believed in God. He looked like he was in his seventies at the time and he said 'of course not. I am not a child.' I then got him to explain why he didn't believe in God, and asked him to explain somethings that he couldn't. I explained to him some of my own experiences and why I took a different view of God. After about three hours of talking, he quieted down and became reflective it seemed. After a little while he finished his beer he had been sipping the whole time and said good bye. I never saw him again, but his disbelief was apparently a cocoon that he somehow used to shelter himself from his own moral responsibilities. I returned several times to where I had met him and he never returned.
So when I am comparing our two parties to the National Socialists, I am being quite objective and literal about it, shorn of the antiNazi agitprop we have been spoon fed for four generations now.
The basis of the Nazi world view was that each person had to demonstrate that they were entitled to exist and to breed. They intensely believed that a person had no intrinsic value in and of themselves, but only so far as that person had something to contribute to society. I was raised to believe that a person is obligated to contribute to society and still do to a point, and that point is that we all have the right to live and do the best we can and the government has the responsibility to not use a persons unmerited qualities as part of its procedures for treating its citizens. So while we do have intrinsic value as a person, we still have an obligation to make something of ourselves. That this is so close to what the Nazis believed causes me to want to err on the side of mercy and charitableness when we can and to defend the defenseless at every opportunity.
The Nazis also believed in group identity and group guilt. They did not care if each and every Jew committed the heinous crimes for which their state propaganda accused them of doing. The Jews as a whole group or ethnicity were guilty of the crimes of each of them. Of course the good done by Jews did not count, lol, of course not. What group is in the Jewish ideological position in todays politics?
The Nazis asserted that everything ultimately belongs to the government and what the individual is allowed to keep they should be thankful for. Is this closely to the same perspective by some in todays political system?
The Nazis said that the top executive, their Leader, was to be obeyed at all times and to not trust the things he claimed were true was disloyal. Anyone like that today?
The Nazis did not trust trial by jury and prosecutors could easily stack the deck to convict the guilty prior to a trial and usually a trial by jury was not even given anyway. It was verdict first, evidence later. Anyone notice this being the case today?
The Nazis were the ultimate ecologists, so extreme that if a car ran off the road and hit a tree, the first treatment was given to the tree to make sure it was in good condition, lol. They had draconian penalties for damaging their trees. Any similarities today?
I am not saying that any particular party is remarkably similar to the Nazis, I am just spurring one to look at the evidence and decide for themselves.
It is quite likely that within the hour some leftwing libtard will get a moderator friend to move this to some dusty side forum or just delete it altogether. But for while it lasts, I would like to read some peoples RATIONAL thoughts on the topic. I think I can predict the libtard responses now as the usual suspects are the first to show and post as always.
What so you?
