What needs to be done if we want to control guns

[martybegan]

No you are not. The insurance is for legal non insured drivers, not a thief. Liability follows the driver, not the vehicle. The only possible exception is if you leave it running outside a store and then someone uses it in an accident. The equivalent of leaving your loaded gun lying in the street.

Stop being a fucking liar.

Wrong...your liability insurance is on each vehicle

Someone steals your vehicle....You are still liable for any damages

Can you prove that via a link, or are you making crap up again?

I can, and you are wrong. fess up.

What Happens If Another Driver Crashes My Car?

Still waiting for rightwinger to admit he was wrong......

 

[rightwinger]

Wrong...your liability insurance is on each vehicle

Someone steals your vehicle....You are still liable for any damages

Can you prove that via a link, or are you making crap up again?

I can, and you are wrong. fess up.

What Happens If Another Driver Crashes My Car?

Still waiting for rightwinger to admit he was wrong......

Actually I do

I stand corrected

 

[bayoubill]

The difference is neither a cigarette or a drink are useful in keeping yourself from getting killed.

The reality is people will have weapons for self protection. The more they need self protection, the more guns they will have. Every time a homeowner uses a gun to protect himself or his family, 100 more guns are sold. The woman in Georgia was probably responsible for selling thousands of guns.

You can't say that about cigarettes or alcohol.

Cigarettes, alcohol and guns are part of our culture

We couldn't ban cigarettes or alcohol same as we can never ban guns

What we, as a culture, did was make sure that cigarettes and alcohol are used responsibly. You can still smoke and drink but you are more accountable for your actions. If you smoke, you can't do it at work or inpublic areas.
If you drink, the bar will stop serving you if you are drunk or arrange a ride home. If you get caught drunk driving you will lose your licence the first time

We can't ban guns but we can make gun ownership more responsible and accountable. We can cut down on gun violence without banning them

We did it with cigarettes and alcohol

you been down in that sewer too long...

irresponsible misuse of guns is already illegal, Norton...

 

[martybegan]

Can you prove that via a link, or are you making crap up again?

I can, and you are wrong. fess up.

What Happens If Another Driver Crashes My Car?

Still waiting for rightwinger to admit he was wrong......

Actually I do

I stand corrected

and in the spirit of this, I admit I was partially wrong as well. Liability DOES travel with the vehicle, but ONLY if you give permission to a person to use the vehicle. Furthermore your insurance will only cover said person if they meet the requirements of your insurance, or you take out unisured driver's insurance, and even then they need to be legal to drive.

So if you lend your car to your 12 year old cousin, YOU are liable, and your insurance company can tell you to go to hell.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What needs to be done if we want to control guns:

We need to relocate Progressive to a country more to their liking

 

[Wry Catcher]

If your gun ends up in the hands of a criminal or the insane it is YOUR responsibility

It's called responsible gun ownership

Okay..let's say the gun they stole from me was in a safe and they broke open the safe.

Question: Is whatever happens still my fault? Does that make me an "irresponsible gun owner"?

Only in the mind of a concrete thinker - others read the comment and see the word "responsible" and understand its significance.

 

[Wry Catcher]

President Obama made a nice speech but other than some executive orders on gun registration and sharing of information, nothing will be done by Congress

The NRA has too much influence over Congress to get any gun legislation passed. Congress may huff and puff but nothing will be done

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Half the people smoked and it was ridiculous to think Congress could do anything about smoking. Smoking was part of our culture and the smoking lobby was very powerful
Drunk Driving killed thousands of people a year. It was accepted that nothing could be done. Drinking was part of our culture and the alcohol lobby was very strong

What changed?

It was the people who got fed up. Grass roots movements against smoking and groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving became politically powerful. Smoking and drunk driving no longer were socially acceptable. It became politically unfeasable to support smoking or lax drunk driving rules.
Public smoking was banned, drunk driving laws were made tougher and the rates of smoking and drunk driving decreased dramatically

If anything will be done on gun violence it will have to come from the American people and not the politicians. Strong grass roots movements need to rise up and say "Enough is enough". These movements need to go head to head with the NRA and support candidates who are willing to fight for stricter gun laws

Unless that happens we will see business as usual

Holy shit, the people are expected to influence their representatives to get laws passed.

How did you ever come up with such logical clarity?

Why are those on the far far right inclined to post stupid on-liners? Oh, yeah.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What needs to be done if we want to control guns:

We need to relocate Progressive to a country more to their liking

Great idea, we'll leave the United States in the hands of people like CrusaderFrank and the rest of the retarded reactionaries. Eveyone thinking alike, everyone armed and everyone ignorant, self righteous and acting solely out of self interest, A virtual dystopia of divided states.

 

[Harry Dresden]

President Obama made a nice speech but other than some executive orders on gun registration and sharing of information, nothing will be done by Congress

The NRA has too much influence over Congress to get any gun legislation passed. Congress may huff and puff but nothing will be done

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Half the people smoked and it was ridiculous to think Congress could do anything about smoking. Smoking was part of our culture and the smoking lobby was very powerful
Drunk Driving killed thousands of people a year. It was accepted that nothing could be done. Drinking was part of our culture and the alcohol lobby was very strong

What changed?

It was the people who got fed up. Grass roots movements against smoking and groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving became politically powerful. Smoking and drunk driving no longer were socially acceptable. It became politically unfeasable to support smoking or lax drunk driving rules.
Public smoking was banned, drunk driving laws were made tougher and the rates of smoking and drunk driving decreased dramatically

If anything will be done on gun violence it will have to come from the American people and not the politicians. Strong grass roots movements need to rise up and say "Enough is enough". These movements need to go head to head with the NRA and support candidates who are willing to fight for stricter gun laws

Unless that happens we will see business as usual

Smoking's decline had a lot to do with educating the young on what it does to you.....i know many smokers who can care less what a non-smoker thinks......and drunk driving has declined?.....i still see every week on the news about a DUI that involves someone dying......many times 2-3 incidents....a few months back a guy was arrested for his 8th fucking DUI....this time he killed a family.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Despite all evidence the contrary, liberals believe gun control nuts are in the majority.

Actually..people that want responsible gun laws are in the majority.

True Americans are sick and tired of psychopaths with assault weapons killing large amounts are law abiding American Citizens.

how come those same Americans very seldom talk about the real "gun nuts" .....the gangs in the inner cities shooting each other and innocent law abiding people who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?.......will these "responsible" gun laws apply to them as well?....

 

[Harry Dresden]

There are too many laws that need to be enforced. No, more worthless laws are not the answer.

with ZERO tolerance.....you use a gun to commit a crime......you automatically get a minimum of 25 years in prison and you serve every minute....NO good behavior bullshit........ and depending on if you fired it and how much damage was done......the sentence goes up considerably....

 

[RoadVirus]

Despite all evidence the contrary, liberals believe gun control nuts are in the majority.

Actually..people that want responsible gun laws are in the majority.

True Americans are sick and tired of psychopaths with assault weapons killing large amounts are law abiding American Citizens.

how come those same Americans very seldom talk about the real "gun nuts" .....the gangs in the inner cities shooting each other and innocent law abiding people who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Talking about gangs is racist (in Lib World).

 

[Rozman]

Actually..people that want responsible gun laws are in the majority.

True Americans are sick and tired of psychopaths with assault weapons killing large amounts are law abiding American Citizens.

how come those same Americans very seldom talk about the real "gun nuts" .....the gangs in the inner cities shooting each other and innocent law abiding people who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Talking about gangs is racist (in Lib World).

You need to be very careful these days if you don't want to be labeled as a racist.

If you say Chicago style politics.... you are a racist.
If you use food stamps and the President in the same sentence you are a racist.

MSNBC has a whole list of these dog whistle/code words that brand people as racist.

 

[Jarlaxle]

President Obama made a nice speech but other than some executive orders on gun registration and sharing of information, nothing will be done by Congress

The NRA has too much influence over Congress to get any gun legislation passed. Congress may huff and puff but nothing will be done

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Half the people smoked and it was ridiculous to think Congress could do anything about smoking. Smoking was part of our culture and the smoking lobby was very powerful
Drunk Driving killed thousands of people a year. It was accepted that nothing could be done. Drinking was part of our culture and the alcohol lobby was very strong

What changed?

It was the people who got fed up. Grass roots movements against smoking and groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving became politically powerful. Smoking and drunk driving no longer were socially acceptable. It became politically unfeasable to support smoking or lax drunk driving rules.
Public smoking was banned, drunk driving laws were made tougher and the rates of smoking and drunk driving decreased dramatically

If anything will be done on gun violence it will have to come from the American people and not the politicians. Strong grass roots movements need to rise up and say "Enough is enough". These movements need to go head to head with the NRA and support candidates who are willing to fight for stricter gun laws

Unless that happens we will see business as usual

I particularly like the M.A.D.D. analogy. It is a real grass roots success story. What started out as a few moms who lost children to drunk drivers emerged as a real force for social change. I couldn't be more proud of those ladies and what they accomplished. But the hurdle is bigger on the gun control issue. I'm not saying it can't be done - I believe that in America, anything can be done.

But gun owners have a much stronger case than drunks. And smokers are generally not proud of their habit, most (I believe) would discourage others from taking it up and would love to be free of the habit themselves. They aren't likely to stand up to defend the practice.

There is no logical defense for driving drunk or smoking. And even though many on these boards like to stubbornly cling to the very worst arguments, I believe there are some pretty decent logical arguments for gun ownership.

It's going to be a lot tougher.

The only critique of MADD is that to me a .08 BAC for DWI is really too low. Most crashes done by drunks are drivers in the .20+ range.

They went off the reservation long ago...they have gone from reasonable to a bunch of neo-prohibitionist fruitcakes. Even the founder has said they go too far.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

President Obama made a nice speech but other than some executive orders on gun registration and sharing of information, nothing will be done by Congress

The NRA has too much influence over Congress to get any gun legislation passed. Congress may huff and puff but nothing will be done

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Half the people smoked and it was ridiculous to think Congress could do anything about smoking. Smoking was part of our culture and the smoking lobby was very powerful
Drunk Driving killed thousands of people a year. It was accepted that nothing could be done. Drinking was part of our culture and the alcohol lobby was very strong

What changed?

It was the people who got fed up. Grass roots movements against smoking and groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving became politically powerful. Smoking and drunk driving no longer were socially acceptable. It became politically unfeasable to support smoking or lax drunk driving rules.
Public smoking was banned, drunk driving laws were made tougher and the rates of smoking and drunk driving decreased dramatically

If anything will be done on gun violence it will have to come from the American people and not the politicians. Strong grass roots movements need to rise up and say "Enough is enough". These movements need to go head to head with the NRA and support candidates who are willing to fight for stricter gun laws

Unless that happens we will see business as usual

It looks like we both grew up in the 50s and for me, mid 60s. I never smoked but still don't mind people who do and do mind people who object to it when other guests smoke in my home, which is spacious and airy and suffers nothing from an occasional smoker.

It was a small minority of people driving the MADD thing that moved enough people to end tolerance of drinking and driving. That particular effort dovetailed nicely into Sheriff Reagan's efforts to get more police on the streets to protect corporate properties, which trend continued until Maximum George wired Homeland Security into our lives.

It seems unlikely that Americans will give up guns after the leadership failures of the last thirty years. I certainly don't trust the police to protect me and when my home was robbed took care of it myself because in my view snoopy police represented more of an ongoing danger of unwanted intrusion to me and my very rural neighbors than the thief.

To bring it to my politics, they are traditionally liberal - more about being let alone than what passes for liberalism today, and I actively loathe big military spending neocon halfwits and ReagaNUT economics, but the people who take my guns will pry them from my cold, dead fingers.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

President Obama made a nice speech but other than some executive orders on gun registration and sharing of information, nothing will be done by Congress

The NRA has too much influence over Congress to get any gun legislation passed. Congress may huff and puff but nothing will be done

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Half the people smoked and it was ridiculous to think Congress could do anything about smoking. Smoking was part of our culture and the smoking lobby was very powerful
Drunk Driving killed thousands of people a year. It was accepted that nothing could be done. Drinking was part of our culture and the alcohol lobby was very strong

What changed?

It was the people who got fed up. Grass roots movements against smoking and groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving became politically powerful. Smoking and drunk driving no longer were socially acceptable. It became politically unfeasable to support smoking or lax drunk driving rules.
Public smoking was banned, drunk driving laws were made tougher and the rates of smoking and drunk driving decreased dramatically

If anything will be done on gun violence it will have to come from the American people and not the politicians. Strong grass roots movements need to rise up and say "Enough is enough". These movements need to go head to head with the NRA and support candidates who are willing to fight for stricter gun laws

Unless that happens we will see business as usual

True.

And the political will is simply not there, which is why you’re correct, nothing will change, in that there’ll be no new AWB.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What needs to be done if we want to control guns:

We need to relocate Progressive to a country more to their liking

Great idea, we'll leave the United States in the hands of people like CrusaderFrank and the rest of the retarded reactionaries. Eveyone thinking alike, everyone armed and everyone ignorant, self righteous and acting solely out of self interest, A virtual dystopia of divided states.

Think of the states as if they were European nations, because that's what they were like before Progressives decided to make us all homogeneous under an all powerful central governemnt