What Leftism Does to People

[francoHFW]

Translated: I would feel better about conservatives if they would all just start thinking like me.

No, read my signature. FACTS dittoheads DON"T know, and BS they do think they know as true. All documented. Very bad citizens- love being brainwashed haters...change the channel.

Amazingly enough, I made my statement AFTER having already seen your signature. And now that you've directed my attention to it yet again, I still stand by my statement.

You believe "wrong" is defined as "not believing what I do", and you would only feel better about conservatives if they would start thinking just like you. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to occur to you that people can understand what you think perfectly, and STILL think you're both wrong and a narrowminded dick.

Dittoheads fail to realize they don't get to have their own facts.

For example, if you believe Nazis were socialists because it's in their name, you just prove you'll fall for ANY right wing propaganda, even the GD NAZIS'. An obscenity, dittoheads. I don't like liars or their willing dupes. I'm right and you're WRONG. TS. The world is aghast at your idiocy.

 

[logical4u]

First off, he should have checked out the demographics of the Occupy movement before cOmmenting on their characteristics. Second, yes the Tea Party protests were peaceful and didn't cause any problems for anyone, which is nothing like the original tea party. The establishment doesn't listen if you are convient and polite. We are a society that was built by men who made the establishment ie The British's life uneasy, and by upsetting how they did business. The only thing the Tea Party accomplished was electing officials who have just fallen in line.
Also, the majority of OWS are self proclaimed independents.

So setting their voting affiliations and/or self-described poltical group aside, what are they protesting Luissa? What solutions are they promoting? Leftist ones? Or conservative ones?

Most protests are about being liberal, because being conservative in the true sense of the word never brings change. If the revolutionist in our country had been true conservatives we would still be under British rule. And in today conservatives would view the Boston tea party as a bunch of ill mannered entitled protesters.

Who do you think invented things in this country and started industries? Do you think they were "liberals" that busted their butts every day for years to give their fortunes to the poor unfortunates, that couldn't be bothered to show some initiative on their own? "Liberal" and "conservative" are not used in the true sense of the words. Liberals: same old "ideal" of "spreading the wealth" (problem: it always ends up in the hands of a tyrant/dictator with an oppressive gov't to back them). Conservatives: people that believe in restraint and self-discipline pertaining to finance, society, or behavior.
One of these systems need babysitters for the entire population (just the ones selling it believe they will have the keys to the asylum). The other expects the individual to be responsible for their own behavior (with a back up plan of laws for those that think they can abuse the system).
Both are based on belief systems, one requires indocrination and compliance, the other lets those that don't want to play, FAIL.
One wants to eliminate the Constitution and all that has been accomplished thru it (though they think that the wealth will magically stay with the population, once the tyrant is in place). The other wants equality under the law, and the Constitution to be honored and used by the gov't (to keep the gov't from becoming that "tyrant").

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, read my signature. FACTS dittoheads DON"T know, and BS they do think they know as true. All documented. Very bad citizens- love being brainwashed haters...change the channel.

Amazingly enough, I made my statement AFTER having already seen your signature. And now that you've directed my attention to it yet again, I still stand by my statement.

You believe "wrong" is defined as "not believing what I do", and you would only feel better about conservatives if they would start thinking just like you. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to occur to you that people can understand what you think perfectly, and STILL think you're both wrong and a narrowminded dick.

Dittoheads fail to realize they don't get to have their own facts.

For example, if you believe Nazis were socialists because it's in their name, you just prove you'll fall for ANY right wing propaganda, even the GD NAZIS'. An obscenity, dittoheads. I don't like liars or their willing dupes. I'm right and you're WRONG. TS. The world is aghast at your idiocy.

Thanks for proving me right about you, not that it was really necessary.

 

[Tank]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSKH6Gw1TC8&feature=related]Greatest Movie Line Ever - YouTube[/ame]

 

[logical4u]

Nothing has ever really got done in the country by being conservative.... In the true sense of the word.

If you have to add a qualifier, you are trying to deceive or avoiding a discussion.

 

[oreo]

I'd feel better about conservatives if their facts weren't all misinformed Rush/Fox/Pubcrappe and they weren't brainwashed Rush/Foxbots/haters...

Translated: I would feel better about conservatives if they would all just start thinking like me.

You couldn't have said it better--

 

[logical4u]

Was the protest in 1773 considerate of others property? My problem with the OP is the man ignores American history.

Okay let's refocus here just a tad.

Klaven's observation used the Occupy groups versus the Tea Party to illustrate the behavior of people who tilt left (the Occupy groups) versus those who tilt right (the Tea Party and similar groups.)

Those on the right obey the law, are civil, polite, and considerate of the rights and property of others.

Those on the left are lawless, uncivil, impolite, inconsiderate of the right of others and destructive of property of others.

So what makes the difference unless it is the difference in thinking and concepts of personal responsibility between the left and right?

If you have read any of Andrew Klaven's writings, you would know that he is no novice when it comes to American history.

The essay forming the OP, however, was not about American History or 1773 but rather is about realities of the here and now and what promotes a certain way of thinking and anti social behavior in certain people.

Along with Klaven's observation and other things, another phenomenon I have observed among many on the left is the inability to focus on a single concept or articulate a reasoned argument for why a concept is right or wrong.

Perhaps you could show me that you are an exception to that by focusing on what Klaven said rather than what he didn't say.

If "right or wrong" depends on the situation, it is hard to know where they stand. If they don't know where they stand, it is hard to tell others where they are. They are lost, the poor sheep.

 

[logical4u]

Modern conservatives and liberals do have a lot in common. The problem is you guys get hung up on the social issues.

".... hung up on the social issues"????? Who is it that is placing imorality into regulation/teaching ciricula and laws? Who is it that is forcing religious people to fund (tax) immoral practices?

 

[francoHFW]

I'd feel better about conservatives if their facts weren't all misinformed Rush/Fox/Pubcrappe and they weren't brainwashed Rush/Foxbots/haters...

Translated: I would feel better about conservatives if they would all just start thinking like me.

You couldn't have said it better--

Another dittohead who loves lies as long as they're his lies. Tell me anythingin mysignature is wrong. And I'll prove you wrong, and duped. Take em all together and they're the basis for your incorrect beliefs and misinformed philosophy. You're tools of your tormentors...

 

[logical4u]

Y'know, I was talking to this new guy who joined our coffee social today. He's in his second year of college, and he was telling me that he had just declared PoliSci as his major. I said, "With an eye toward doing what?" He stared at me blankly. I said, "What was it you were intending on doing after college?" He shrugged and said, "I don't know. I went without a major all last year, and they really wanted me to choose something, and I'm kinda interested in PoliSci, so . . . I might change it to Philosophy, I dunno." (This is a direct, verbatim quote.) At this point in the conversation, I thought, "Oh, yeah, here's another useless societal drain just looking for a park to camp out and shout slogans in."

Do you think that might be the reason that leftists conduct such socially unacceptable protests? (Socially unacceptable to anybody who isn't urging on the protesters of course.) Those protesting are just people who don't have a clue what they want to be when they grow up? But they have to do something and protesting for something they can't even identify is what they do?

But why are people like that so destructive and disrespectful to others?

And why are Tea Partiers who are very clear on what they want and why they want it not at all destructive and are quite respectful to others?

Several folks here have gone after me and/or conservatives in general for posting the thread and after Klaven for his remarks that form the OP. They've accused him of some ugly things and said his thesis was poorly written. But not a single one of them has offered anything to show why he is wrong in both his perceptions and conclusions.

Protests got us out of Vietnam. I consider that a good thing.

How many that served this country in the military suffered for your "protests" with human urine and feces thrown at them/being called every name in the book/slandered/etc? Why don't you ask them if it was a "good thing"? BTW, another example of "liberal" behavior and how they consider no one else's rights, or dignity.

 

[logical4u]

It's a poorly written article with Klavins own hypocrisy opinion. It just is. Second paragraph which you highlighted My first question who in the left is he talking about and what is this about the tea party being innocent of Crimes? Remember Gabby in Az who was shot?

His last paragraph starts with not everyone on the left is a miscreant? What?

Your poll shows that many are afraid of unchecked leftism. I think that is more interesting then the article.

Gabby that was shot by a left wing loon?

That's not how I labeled him, but he did get caught up in the crosshairs of things or teaings.

Just by the liberals, they were in full cover mode to blame the conservatives on this, long before anyone knew anything. The liberal behavior on display, again: it is okay to sland conservatives/it is okay to lie to the press. It is not okay if it affects liberals' money.

 

[logical4u]

By this, I can also make the assumption conservatives like judging many by a few. And there are a few American conservatives on this board that get just as disruptive.
As for the protesters, I already gave my opinion on that. They shouldn't be violent, but they shouldn't be convient . I should also add autocorrect has been replacing words on me. Lol because like many protesters I have an iPhone. But I love consumerism. .

You've just put your finger squarely on the reason I have most of the little twatmuffins on ignore: so I can go on discussing topics with the grown-ups and without their disruptions.

I have never put a member on ignore. Nor have I ever neg repped a member for any opinion expressed no matter how stupid, hateful, or judgmental. But I may have to change my ways in order to be able to enjoy USMB.

But it really does illustrate Klaven's point doesn't it? Leftists who aren't getting their way or who want to force somebody to give them what they want are too often likely to respect nobody and can get really ugly and hateful as well as destructive. Violating the rights and property of others and trying to make others miserable is the norm in the mob mentality as Klaven clearly illustrated.

But American conservatives don't seem to go that way.

I know the leftists hate this topic because it's pretty hard to dispute the thesis. I'm seeing Klaven's point of view reinforced as we go along and I think he has hit on something.

Do you have evidence/links of conservatives being as destructive/"disruptive" as the OWS group?

 

[logical4u]

And still you persist in - falsely - believing your opinion means something. By all means, DO continue expounding to me on an opinion I already told is empty and meaningless. What ELSE do you think that I can not care about?

Well since I am obviously the 'uppity one' and the only one "forcing my opinion' on others by expressing what I think or believe, I suppose I'll just have to live with that. Silly me, I thought message boards were to discuss topics and I honestly don't know how to do that without expressing opinions. I suppose I could go the route some do and just personally insult people, but alas, I find that really boring and not something I would enjoy doing just to fit in. Oh well.

I would encourage Luissa to look up the definition for Classical Liberal though. Wikipedia actually has a pretty good one and I have shortened and condensed that into the definition I now use to save time. Geez, surely a leftist who is so much better than me can learn something.

But anyway, I guess I am so flawed that I think Klaven's thesis was right on. And so far nobody, and I do mean nobody, has offered ANY kind of argument to challenge it.

Actually, when making the comment I wasn't really thinking of you.
I have never liked Cecile MO, she always speaks down to people including some who share her same beliefs. That is my biggest issue with conservative women. If we do not live the way they do, and share their same beliefs they treat us like we are less of a person.

Oh no, have you been Palin-ized????

 

[Luissa]

Well since I am obviously the 'uppity one' and the only one "forcing my opinion' on others by expressing what I think or believe, I suppose I'll just have to live with that. Silly me, I thought message boards were to discuss topics and I honestly don't know how to do that without expressing opinions. I suppose I could go the route some do and just personally insult people, but alas, I find that really boring and not something I would enjoy doing just to fit in. Oh well.

I would encourage Luissa to look up the definition for Classical Liberal though. Wikipedia actually has a pretty good one and I have shortened and condensed that into the definition I now use to save time. Geez, surely a leftist who is so much better than me can learn something.

But anyway, I guess I am so flawed that I think Klaven's thesis was right on. And so far nobody, and I do mean nobody, has offered ANY kind of argument to challenge it.

Actually, when making the comment I wasn't really thinking of you.
I have never liked Cecile MO, she always speaks down to people including some who share her same beliefs. That is my biggest issue with conservative women. If we do not live the way they do, and share their same beliefs they treat us like we are less of a person.

Like I keep telling you, Chuckles. If you want respect, you have to earn it. You can't just demand it. The more you talk, the less respect you deserve. And since I'm not a liberal, I don't feel the need to kiss the ass of anyone who happens to accidentally fall into having the same belief as me on something, with no frigging clue why or ability to explain it. Unlike some, I'm not desperate for approbation and agreement.

Oh, and it's not how you live your life that fills me with contempt. It's really just how incredibly stupid you are (which, admittedly, is often obvious in the shit sandwich that you've made of your life and how blind you are to the causality). You're a walking advertisement for "Men were right: women really ARE only good for sex." Those of us who pride ourselves on having more to offer the world than our coochies are really embarrassed by females like you.

And you just proved my point.
You know nothing about my life, but you seem to be the authority on it. Like I said, if someone does not think the way you do, you look down on them.
My life may not be perfect, but I have worked pretty hard to make my life better for child and me. And I know the only reason why most have such opinions of me is because I am a single mom. You assume I am a whore who lives off the government. To set the record straight, the only thing I receive from the government is health care and an education for my son who is DD. I have received help in the past, but I worked very hard to make it on my own. You being a judgmental bitch won't ever make me feel bad for doing things on my own, and the fact my son gets help from the government because he is DD.

 

[Luissa]

By this, I can also make the assumption conservatives like judging many by a few. And there are a few American conservatives on this board that get just as disruptive.
As for the protesters, I already gave my opinion on that. They shouldn't be violent, but they shouldn't be convient . I should also add autocorrect has been replacing words on me. Lol because like many protesters I have an iPhone. But I love consumerism. .

I have never put a member on ignore. Nor have I ever neg repped a member for any opinion expressed no matter how stupid, hateful, or judgmental. But I may have to change my ways in order to be able to enjoy USMB.

But it really does illustrate Klaven's point doesn't it? Leftists who aren't getting their way or who want to force somebody to give them what they want are too often likely to respect nobody and can get really ugly and hateful as well as destructive. Violating the rights and property of others and trying to make others miserable is the norm in the mob mentality as Klaven clearly illustrated.

But American conservatives don't seem to go that way.

I know the leftists hate this topic because it's pretty hard to dispute the thesis. I'm seeing Klaven's point of view reinforced as we go along and I think he has hit on something.

Do you have evidence/links of conservatives being as destructive/"disruptive" as the OWS group?

I never said they had been, I was talking about this board. And I can find a lot of proof backing that up.

 

[Luissa]

Well since I am obviously the 'uppity one' and the only one "forcing my opinion' on others by expressing what I think or believe, I suppose I'll just have to live with that. Silly me, I thought message boards were to discuss topics and I honestly don't know how to do that without expressing opinions. I suppose I could go the route some do and just personally insult people, but alas, I find that really boring and not something I would enjoy doing just to fit in. Oh well.

I would encourage Luissa to look up the definition for Classical Liberal though. Wikipedia actually has a pretty good one and I have shortened and condensed that into the definition I now use to save time. Geez, surely a leftist who is so much better than me can learn something.

But anyway, I guess I am so flawed that I think Klaven's thesis was right on. And so far nobody, and I do mean nobody, has offered ANY kind of argument to challenge it.

Actually, when making the comment I wasn't really thinking of you.
I have never liked Cecile MO, she always speaks down to people including some who share her same beliefs. That is my biggest issue with conservative women. If we do not live the way they do, and share their same beliefs they treat us like we are less of a person.

I don't have any reason not to take you at your word on that despite your less than complimentary judgments of me in the past. But I think the problem is that conservative women know what they believe, why they believe it, and can articulate it. I think the leftists probably intuit more without complete clarity and that makes it more dfficult to articulate an opinion. It is why Tea Partiers are so clear in what their goals are and why the Occupy groups are far less clear on what they want or why they want it or who they want it from.

That is not making anybody less of a person. And it is no different than the leftists telling we conservatives that we want to ram religion down people's throats or force women to be enslaved to unwanted children or take away lunches from school kids or any of the other ridiculous things we are accused of.

Those who insult people, unless it is the typical USMB food fight, are treating people as less than people, however, and both sides do it.

To disagree with somebody does not treat anybody as less of a person. To presume to judge them does.

You might want to check out Cecile's response to my post.

Which is exactly what I was referring to.

 

[Sky Dancer]

RWNJ's called MLK's marches, "socially unacceptable protests". Gandhi's march across India for salt was "socially unacceptable". The march on Washington to end the Vietnam War was also called "socially unacceptable".

Apparently, the RWNJ's consider the Tea Baggers, "socially acceptable". Apartheid was "socially acceptable".

Very telling.

The OP considers ANY post that disagrees with her agenda to be "socially unacceptable". Klavan's rant against the left would be called racism if it was directed at blacks. No wonder the OP is so in awe of him.

The OP has the same prejudice against liberals, that Klavan expresses.

This is the most hateful, divisive time in history for any discussion of politics I've ever lived through. The OP loves to dis liberals. This is a flame thread. Well done Fox.

 

[Luissa]

Well since I am obviously the 'uppity one' and the only one "forcing my opinion' on others by expressing what I think or believe, I suppose I'll just have to live with that. Silly me, I thought message boards were to discuss topics and I honestly don't know how to do that without expressing opinions. I suppose I could go the route some do and just personally insult people, but alas, I find that really boring and not something I would enjoy doing just to fit in. Oh well.

I would encourage Luissa to look up the definition for Classical Liberal though. Wikipedia actually has a pretty good one and I have shortened and condensed that into the definition I now use to save time. Geez, surely a leftist who is so much better than me can learn something.

But anyway, I guess I am so flawed that I think Klaven's thesis was right on. And so far nobody, and I do mean nobody, has offered ANY kind of argument to challenge it.

Actually, when making the comment I wasn't really thinking of you.
I have never liked Cecile MO, she always speaks down to people including some who share her same beliefs. That is my biggest issue with conservative women. If we do not live the way they do, and share their same beliefs they treat us like we are less of a person.

I don't have any reason not to take you at your word on that despite your less than complimentary judgments of me in the past. But I think the problem is that conservative women know what they believe, why they believe it, and can articulate it. I think the leftists probably intuit more without complete clarity and that makes it more dfficult to articulate an opinion. It is why Tea Partiers are so clear in what their goals are and why the Occupy groups are far less clear on what they want or why they want it or who they want it from.

That is not making anybody less of a person. And it is no different than the leftists telling we conservatives that we want to ram religion down people's throats or force women to be enslaved to unwanted children or take away lunches from school kids or any of the other ridiculous things we are accused of.

Those who insult people, unless it is the typical USMB food fight, are treating people as less than people, however, and both sides do it.

To disagree with somebody does not treat anybody as less of a person. To presume to judge them does.

Not to get really into it again, my less than complimentary view of you was only shaped after you decided to go to one of our mutual friends about me. Before then, I had no problem with you. I knew I didn't share your same opinions, but I thought you were pretty nice and really had no interaction with you. That might not be how you see things, and that is fine. Two sides to an argument are never the same, but that is how I see it.

 

[francoHFW]

"Do you have evidence/links of conservatives being as destructive/"disruptive" as the OWS group?"

How 'bout the total catastrophe of the Boooosh administration, or Voodoo economics' ruin of the non rich? How 'bout the lies and hatred spread by the Pub Propaganda Machine? OWS are a bunch of idealistic kids who are screwed by the Bush legacy- and demonized by the PPM, mainly for a few anarchist morons they have discredited themselves...not reported by the PPM- unknown by the dupes...

 

[Cecilie1200]

Actually, when making the comment I wasn't really thinking of you.
I have never liked Cecile MO, she always speaks down to people including some who share her same beliefs. That is my biggest issue with conservative women. If we do not live the way they do, and share their same beliefs they treat us like we are less of a person.

Like I keep telling you, Chuckles. If you want respect, you have to earn it. You can't just demand it. The more you talk, the less respect you deserve. And since I'm not a liberal, I don't feel the need to kiss the ass of anyone who happens to accidentally fall into having the same belief as me on something, with no frigging clue why or ability to explain it. Unlike some, I'm not desperate for approbation and agreement.

Oh, and it's not how you live your life that fills me with contempt. It's really just how incredibly stupid you are (which, admittedly, is often obvious in the shit sandwich that you've made of your life and how blind you are to the causality). You're a walking advertisement for "Men were right: women really ARE only good for sex." Those of us who pride ourselves on having more to offer the world than our coochies are really embarrassed by females like you.

And you just proved my point.
You know nothing about my life, but you seem to be the authority on it. Like I said, if someone does not think the way you do, you look down on them.
My life may not be perfect, but I have worked pretty hard to make my life better for child and me. And I know the only reason why most have such opinions of me is because I am a single mom. You assume I am a whore who lives off the government. To set the record straight, the only thing I receive from the government is health care and an education for my son who is DD. I have received help in the past, but I worked very hard to make it on my own. You being a judgmental bitch won't ever make me feel bad for doing things on my own, and the fact my son gets help from the government because he is DD.

I never claimed to know any more than you blurt out here on the boards. Like you just did. I think you're an ignorant trollop just for the stuff you say. I don't need any more.

Would you like to tell me anything you just said that's supposed to make me view you with less contempt than I do? And it's fairly obvious that I DO make you feel bad, or you wouldn't keep trying so hard to defend yourself.