What Kind of State in Israel?

Within which borders does the Jewish State have a right to exist?
Within secure recognized borders, of course.
Specifically, what's Israel's Eastern border?
Oh, that's easy. Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty. Annex I (a). Israel-Jordan International Boundary Delimitation and Demarcation, telling the facts, naming the names, of course.
How much room will be left for six million Arabs?
The whole expanse of the arab states, of course. They are supposed to be brothers-sisters, or so they say, aren't they?
 
Within which borders does the Jewish State have a right to exist?
Within secure recognized borders, of course.
Specifically, what's Israel's Eastern border?
Oh, that's easy. Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty. Annex I (a). Israel-Jordan International Boundary Delimitation and Demarcation, telling the facts, naming the names, of course.
How much room will be left for six million Arabs?
The whole expanse of the arab states, of course. They are supposed to be brothers-sisters, or so they say, aren't they?
Are you delusional enough to believe five million Jews will transfer six million Arabs out of Palestine?
 
georgephillip, et al,

This is (actually) a good question.

R...

When you say the State of Israel is a democracy, what Eastern border for the Jewish state are you assuming. If Israel encompasses all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan and there are almost a million more Arabs than Jews living there, I don't see how Jewish rule and democracy are compatible.

I see the Palestinians of today in opposition to nearly a century of "creeping annexation and transfer" policies at the hands of the Zionists.
(COMMENT)

The democratic/parliamentary aspect of Israel is based on the citizenry of Israel and not borders. As we all know, the entire issue of borders is argumentative in nature. It is exceptionally hard to discuss the topic without it disintegrating in an uncivil manner. But all throughout the lands controlled by Israel, there are citizens of the state. And they have representation in the Knesset. Thus, similar to the US/UK style of government, they are a representative-democracy. And just like in the US/UK, you only have a voice if you are a citizen; not resident aliens or other non-citizens.

Now, citizenship, like in the US/UK is not based on religious affiliation. So, there are many non-Jewish citizens of Israel.

According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, the Arab population in 2010 was estimated at 1,573,000, representing 20.4% of the country's population.[4] The majority of these identify themselves as Arab or Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship.[5][6][7]
SOURCE: Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most Respectfully,
R
In most countries citizenship and nationality afford equal rights.
That doesn't seem to be the case in Israel, at least according to non-Jews:

"There is no such thing as 'Israeli' nationality.
● Jewish Nationality, however, is recognized. It is governed by the Law of
Return (1950) which automatically assigns 'Jewish nationality' to every
Jewish person in the world.
● The Law of Return (1950) states a Jewish national is:
• born of Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism
and is not a member of any other religion.
● Rights of nationality are also vested in:
• a child/grandchild of a Jew,
• the spouse of a Jew,
• the spouse of a child of a Jew,
• or the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew
unless they have been a Jew and voluntarily changed their religion."

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrc/docs/ngos/BADIL_Israel-CERD80.pdf
 
Palestine has been under the boot of external interference since the demise of the Ottoman empire. Violations of their rights do not negate those rights.


ROFLMAO what an idiot----obviously never met an arab-------from the arabi islamicist POV----palestine was UNDER THE BOOT OF THE OTTOMANS -----for the record---it was the OTTOMANS WHO HAPPILY SOLD LAND TO JEWS ----and by so doing---moderated the filth and stink of shariah. Erdogan is now SEEKING LOVE----by promising to faithfully lick the ass of the rapist and impose the racist filth of shariah ---in order to realize his IMPERAILIST PIG AMBITIONS
 
Palestine has been under the boot of external interference since the demise of the Ottoman empire. Violations of their rights do not negate those rights.


ROFLMAO what an idiot----obviously never met an arab-------from the arabi islamicist POV----palestine was UNDER THE BOOT OF THE OTTOMANS -----for the record---it was the OTTOMANS WHO HAPPILY SOLD LAND TO JEWS ----and by so doing---moderated the filth and stink of shariah. Erdogan is now SEEKING LOVE----by promising to faithfully lick the ass of the rapist and impose the racist filth of shariah ---in order to realize his IMPERAILIST PIG AMBITIONS
Whose rights are being violated and negated in today's Palestine:

Should Israel enact public policies that favor Jews over Arabs?
Would you ROFLMAO while shitting the word "apartheid?"

"That many Jews believe that Israel has adopted 'apartheid' policies is surprising, given that the term is usually deployed only by Israel's most vociferous critics, and suggests that the government-led narrative that the Jewish State is the only democracy in the Middle East is unconvincing to some.

"But such self-awareness does not mean that Israelis are ashamed of it.

"Nearly 70 per cent of those questioned would object to the 2.5 million Palestinians living in the West Bank obtaining the vote if Israel was to annex the Palestinian territory, suggesting that they effectively endorse an apartheid regime."

The new Israeli apartheid: Poll reveals widespread Jewish support for policy of discrimination against Arab minority - Middle East - World - The Independent
 
georgephillip, et al,

This is one-sided and confused.

In most countries citizenship and nationality afford equal rights.
That doesn't seem to be the case in Israel, at least according to non-Jews:

"There is no such thing as 'Israeli' nationality.
● Jewish Nationality, however, is recognized. It is governed by the Law of
Return (1950) which automatically assigns 'Jewish nationality' to every
Jewish person in the world.
● The Law of Return (1950) states a Jewish national is:
• born of Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism
and is not a member of any other religion.
● Rights of nationality are also vested in:
• a child/grandchild of a Jew,
• the spouse of a Jew,
• the spouse of a child of a Jew,
• or the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew
unless they have been a Jew and voluntarily changed their religion."

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrc/docs/ngos/BADIL_Israel-CERD80.pdf
(COMMENT)

You have to read the entire "Basic Law" on citizenship. Like all countries, there is a process. The law covers several categories, just like in the US:

  • Right of Return
  • Citizenship by Birth
  • Citizenship by Naturalization
  • Citizenship by Residence

The case cited in the above article is a case that was decided pertaining to one man; and not an entire class of people or to change existing law.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
So if the Pals all turn Jewish, they can all go back to Israel?
 
So if the Pals all turn Jewish, they can all go back to Israel?

Sure they could. That's the law. But they don't have to convert to move to Israel. Israel's laws for immigrants other than Jews are about the same as those in the US, so just as many Palestinian Arabs have moved to the US, they could move to Israel if they applied to the government. In fact, during the Oslo period before the second intifada, about 100,000 Arabs from the territories became Israeli citizens under the family reunification act. The Arab Israeli who place the bomb on the bus in Tel Aviv recently was one of them.
 
"From 1993 to 2003 between 100,000 and 140,000 Palestinians from West Bank and Gaza became legal residents and have settled in Israel. After 2003 the process was halted as a result of Israeli Nationality and Entry Law."

Palestinian immigration (Israel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indeed, during the second intifada, citizenship through family reunification was suspended, because some of these new Israeli citizens were implicated in terrorism and later the law was amended so that applicants were subjected to more thorough security examinations. The Arab who placed the bomb on a Tel Aviv bus recently, was one of those who became an Israeli citizen through the family reunification law.

Clearly, when the Israelis hoped the Palestinian Arabs had decided to live with them in peace, Arabs who wanted to emigrate to Israel were welcomed, but that hope was lost during the second intifada.
 
"From 1993 to 2003 between 100,000 and 140,000 Palestinians from West Bank and Gaza became legal residents and have settled in Israel. After 2003 the process was halted as a result of Israeli Nationality and Entry Law."

Palestinian immigration (Israel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indeed, during the second intifada, citizenship through family reunification was suspended, because some of these new Israeli citizens were implicated in terrorism and later the law was amended so that applicants were subjected to more thorough security examinations. The Arab who placed the bomb on a Tel Aviv bus recently, was one of those who became an Israeli citizen through the family reunification law.

Clearly, when the Israelis hoped the Palestinian Arabs had decided to live with them in peace, Arabs who wanted to emigrate to Israel were welcomed, but that hope was lost during the second intifada.
Clearly the Zionist terrorism of "creeping annexation" and "creeping transfer" will never be acceptable to Palestinian Arabs.
 
"From 1993 to 2003 between 100,000 and 140,000 Palestinians from West Bank and Gaza became legal residents and have settled in Israel. After 2003 the process was halted as a result of Israeli Nationality and Entry Law."

Palestinian immigration (Israel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indeed, during the second intifada, citizenship through family reunification was suspended, because some of these new Israeli citizens were implicated in terrorism and later the law was amended so that applicants were subjected to more thorough security examinations. The Arab who placed the bomb on a Tel Aviv bus recently, was one of those who became an Israeli citizen through the family reunification law.

Clearly, when the Israelis hoped the Palestinian Arabs had decided to live with them in peace, Arabs who wanted to emigrate to Israel were welcomed, but that hope was lost during the second intifada.
Clearly the Zionist terrorism of "creeping annexation" and "creeping transfer" will never be acceptable to Palestinian Arabs.


georgie endorses with ENTHUSIASM -------MALIGNANT ISLAMIC IMPERIALISM ---an ideology which defines ANY LAND UPON WHICH A MUSLIM EITHER DEFECATED OR RAPED
as MUSLIM LAND FOREVER I learned about the definition of "MUSLIM LAND" at the age of 14---(which was a long time ago) I encountered a pakistani kid of the same age He was in the USA because he was the son of a pakistani diplomat. Bright boy---he could parrot the islamo nazi propganda chapter and verse ------just like georgie can-----but HIS name was "MUHUMMAD" For the record---ALL OF THE INDIAN SUBCONTINENT is also "MUSLIM LAND" forever I learned all about the
"MOGHUL EMPIRE" at about age 20 from a muslim surgeon from New Dehli

when georgie's hero OSAMA mentioned the TRAGEDY OF ANDALUSIA in one of his
videoed appearances -------he was claiming SPAIN as MUSLIM LAND FOREVER ---too.

be not confounded----the idea that muslims own the world was ASSERTED in a UN SPEECH from the mouth of ACHMADINEJAD when he announced that "ISLAM IS
THE RELIGION FOR THE WORLD"

Totalitarian utopian ideologies have been responsible for virtually ever genocide
on the planet------from the 'holy' ROMAN EMPIRE ----TO THE GLORIOUS AGE OF
OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST -----and------of course----communism which is yet
another totalitarian utopian ideology------fortunately not so persistent
as the REICHS AND ISLAMICISM
 
Five million Jews think their G-d gave them the right to rule over six million Arabs.
That's a totalitarian ideology that depends on BILLION$ of US tax dollars to maintain.
Not so much for alleged Andulusian apoplexy.
 
Five million Jews think their G-d gave them the right to rule over six million Arabs.
That's a totalitarian ideology that depends on BILLION$ of US tax dollars to maintain.
Not so much for alleged Andulusian apoplexy.


I have known lots of jews in my life and never encountered one who thought that they are
endowed with a RIGHT to rule arabs I learned lots about jewish theology and ideology---and never encountered any belief regarding RULING other people or even SEEKING to build POWER by seeking JOINERS in the form of converts. ON THE OTHER HAND----I noticed in early childhood that christians do seek converts-------and later on -----I learned that muslims do believe that ISLAM MUST RULE THE WORLD. I have also noticed that there are lots of idiots in the world who imagine they KNOW something
about jews and judaism -------despite absolute ignorance on the subject.

as to muslims---I notice yet another phenomenon------that of INTENSE PROJECTION
Muslims are FERVENT CONVERT SEEKERS----to the point of many many programs of
CONVERT OR DIE ---in virtually all lands invaded by or controlled by muslims. Jews
have a long history of DISCOURAGING conversion----which is not unique
in the world Zoroastrians do not allow it at all. Yet seemingly intelligent muslims
from foreign lands have ASSERTED TO ME "JEWS WANT ALL THE MUSLIMS TO
CONVERT TO JUDAISM" the first time I heard that one I almost lost
my mouthful of coca cola---------EZRA probably flipped over----(an anti conversion
prophet)
 
Five million Jews think their G-d gave them the right to rule over six million Arabs.

Where did you get your math degree, University of clowns?:lol::lol::lol:



georgie I am curious too-----I was born in the USA----I am uhm "middle aged"
--daughter of jewish parents also born in the USA----and educated in pubic schools from
kindergarten thru college --------uhm----can you provide some non specific aspects of
yourself --------we know that Lipush is in Israel and----probably speaks spanish----
and may even eat FRIJOLES (did I spell that correctly lipshi?)----I was a biology major
in college WAY BACK THEN. Knowing a bit of a person's background helps one
understand his POV--------yours, I might add------seems a bit weird----as if you have
no basis for "KNOWING" ----but just ASSUME ----based on---nothing
 

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