What is the proper method of dealing with crowd control ...

[Foxfyre]

Okay, I just showed our resident cop the Youtube footage of the Berkeley incident. His analysis:

1. There is no footage of what happened prior to the event. No footage of the police giving verbal orders to disperse or any threats that may have been leveled at the police. The odds are excellent that the expanded footage would have painted a different picture than the Youtube clip. Note there is a police photographer there filming the whole thing. The police would not have been there at all if the University officials were not concerned and had not called them.

2. Due to the protesters being right in the face of the police there was no room to use pepper spray or tear gas. This was almost certainly deliberate. Unless the police are equipped with gas masks, etc. distance is required to use that stuff without incapacitating and putting the police officers at risk.

3. It is imperative that a 'reactionary gap' be maintained between the police and a mob. This gives the police a chance to react when violence occurs and also keeps the mob from easily attacking the police officers and perhaps taking their weapons. Each police officer has on his person a taser, handcuffs, a baton, and a firearm. The batons in this case were used to re-establish the reactionary gap when the crowd surged forward. If you look carefully, there is likely a gap in the Youtube tape in which that surge occurred. You will note that the police are severely outnumbered. There is a reason they call it the 'thin blue line.'

4. The poking with the batons to move the crowd back is the least violent and least injurious method of crowd control. You will note that nobody was taken down, nobody was bleeding, no cracked heads, no broken bones. The police officers were demonstrating excellent training with that maneuver.

So there you have it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You rock, Immie.

How quickly the RW forget. The Tea Party in Helena, Montana encouraged their members to come to political rallies armed. Yeah, those radicals get a pass by the RW.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

2. Due to the protesters being right in the face of the police there was no room to use pepper spray or tear gas. This was almost certainly deliberate. Unless the police are equipped with gas masks, etc. distance is required to use that stuff without incapacitating and putting the police officers at risk.

At risk of WHAT? I thought the stuff was safe.

 

[Foxfyre]

2. Due to the protesters being right in the face of the police there was no room to use pepper spray or tear gas. This was almost certainly deliberate. Unless the police are equipped with gas masks, etc. distance is required to use that stuff without incapacitating and putting the police officers at risk.

At risk of WHAT? I thought the stuff was safe.

At risk of being temporarily incapacitated which would give the mob time to rush and disarm them.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Right, the only lives worth saving are cops. Who cares if some 84 year old woman gets pepper sprayed?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Rretired New York Supreme Court Judge Karen Smith, who worked as a legal observer Tuesday morning in New York after the police raided the Occupy Wall Street encampment. "I was there to take down the names of people who were arrested... As I’m standing there, some African-American woman goes up to a police officer and says, 'I need to get in. My daughter's there. I want to know if she’s OK.’ And he said, 'Move on, lady.' And they kept pushing with their sticks, pushing back. And she was crying. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he throws her to the ground and starts hitting her in the head," says Smith. "I walk over, and I say, 'Look, cuff her if she's done something, but you don’t need to do that.’ And he said, 'Lady, do you want to get arrested?' And I said, 'Do you see my hat? I'm here as a legal observer.’ He said, 'You want to get arrested?' And he pushed me up against the wall."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...etired-JUDGE-shoved-wall-threatened-NYPD.html

 

[The Infidel]

Right, the only lives worth saving are cops. Who cares if some 84 year old woman gets pepper sprayed?

If she was in a group of anarchists disobeying a police officers DIRECT orders.... she got what she asked for.

You guys on the left blame the police first, but bet ya wont waste anytime calling them when you need them do ya?

Shame on all of you!

 

[The Infidel]

Rretired New York Supreme Court Judge Karen Smith, who worked as a legal observer Tuesday morning in New York after the police raided the Occupy Wall Street encampment. "I was there to take down the names of people who were arrested... As I’m standing there, some African-American woman goes up to a police officer and says, 'I need to get in. My daughter's there. I want to know if she’s OK.’ And he said, 'Move on, lady.' And they kept pushing with their sticks, pushing back. And she was crying. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he throws her to the ground and starts hitting her in the head," says Smith. "I walk over, and I say, 'Look, cuff her if she's done something, but you don’t need to do that.’ And he said, 'Lady, do you want to get arrested?' And I said, 'Do you see my hat? I'm here as a legal observer.’ He said, 'You want to get arrested?' And he pushed me up against the wall."

I can make a "legal observer" hat too..... anybody can!

Do you realize how much bullshit these guys hear???? Do you realize how much bullshit they are having to deal with???

Give me a break.... her daughter is big enough to be there with the anarchists, then she can deal with the consequences that come with it. That is not the polices problem.

Get out of their way... let them do their job!

Still love ya girl, but in my opinion, your wrong.
Sorry

 

[BDBoop]

rretired new york supreme court judge karen smith, who worked as a legal observer tuesday morning in new york after the police raided the occupy wall street encampment. "i was there to take down the names of people who were arrested... As i’m standing there, some african-american woman goes up to a police officer and says, 'i need to get in. My daughter's there. I want to know if she’s ok.’ and he said, 'move on, lady.' and they kept pushing with their sticks, pushing back. And she was crying. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he throws her to the ground and starts hitting her in the head," says smith. "i walk over, and i say, 'look, cuff her if she's done something, but you don’t need to do that.’ and he said, 'lady, do you want to get arrested?' and i said, 'do you see my hat? I'm here as a legal observer.’ he said, 'you want to get arrested?' and he pushed me up against the wall."

o.o

whoa.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Rretired New York Supreme Court Judge Karen Smith, who worked as a legal observer Tuesday morning in New York after the police raided the Occupy Wall Street encampment. "I was there to take down the names of people who were arrested... As I’m standing there, some African-American woman goes up to a police officer and says, 'I need to get in. My daughter's there. I want to know if she’s OK.’ And he said, 'Move on, lady.' And they kept pushing with their sticks, pushing back. And she was crying. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he throws her to the ground and starts hitting her in the head," says Smith. "I walk over, and I say, 'Look, cuff her if she's done something, but you don’t need to do that.’ And he said, 'Lady, do you want to get arrested?' And I said, 'Do you see my hat? I'm here as a legal observer.’ He said, 'You want to get arrested?' And he pushed me up against the wall."

I can make a "legal observer" hat too..... anybody can!

Do you realize how much bullshit these guys hear???? Do you realize how much bullshit they are having to deal with???

Give me a break.... her daughter is big enough to be there with the anarchists, then she can deal with the consequences that come with it. That is not the polices problem.

Get out of their way... let them do their job!

Still love ya girl, but in my opinion, your wrong.
Sorry

Bull shit. That woman did nothing to get pushed to the ground and beat with a stick. She was worried about her kid.

Further, that wasn't just anybody with a hat on, it was a retired Supreme Court judge.

It's not the policeman who got his head bashed in, it was black woman worried about her kid.

The policeman's job is not to beat people up who aren't breaking any laws.

Sorry, but I think you're wrong on this one.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Right, the only lives worth saving are cops. Who cares if some 84 year old woman gets pepper sprayed?

If she was in a group of anarchists disobeying a police officers DIRECT orders.... she got what she asked for.

You guys on the left blame the police first, but bet ya wont waste anytime calling them when you need them do ya?

Shame on all of you!

Shame on me? I grew up in Brooklyn and the NYPD I knew was as corrupt and brutal as can be imagined.

This cop is beating on women for no reason. Shame on you. You've got a bias that says a cops safety is more important than a citizen's life.

Frankly, I'm not too happy with police pepper spraying an 84 year old woman, and I don't care if she IS an anarchist.

If the cop can't handle the bullshit without getting violent he should retire.

 

[The Infidel]

Right, the only lives worth saving are cops. Who cares if some 84 year old woman gets pepper sprayed?

If she was in a group of anarchists disobeying a police officers DIRECT orders.... she got what she asked for.

You guys on the left blame the police first, but bet ya wont waste anytime calling them when you need them do ya?

Shame on all of you!

Shame on me? I grew up in Brooklyn and the NYPD I knew was as corrupt and brutal as can be imagined.

This cop is beating on women for no reason. Shame on you.

Im not saying they are all w/o sin.... I grew up alot in New Orleans.... believe me, I know corruption.
I just think she, if she had those credentials, she could/should have gotten an escort to go down there with her.

Tell me... how the Hell are they supposed to know she is no imposter with a "hat"?

C'mon Sky....
How inn the Hell are they supposed to know she is not an imposter

 

[Sky Dancer]

If she was in a group of anarchists disobeying a police officers DIRECT orders.... she got what she asked for.

You guys on the left blame the police first, but bet ya wont waste anytime calling them when you need them do ya?

Shame on all of you!

Shame on me? I grew up in Brooklyn and the NYPD I knew was as corrupt and brutal as can be imagined.

This cop is beating on women for no reason. Shame on you.

Im not saying they are all w/o sin.... I grew up alot in New Orleans.... believe me, I know corruption.
I just think she, if she had those credentials, she could/should have gotten an escort to go down there with her.

Tell me... how the Hell are they supposed to know she is no imposter with a "hat"?

C'mon Sky....
How inn the Hell are they supposed to know she is not an imposter

Look bud,

The cop should have known better. They wear the freakin hats to notice police that they are neutral observers.

This observer happened to be a retired judge that noticed the policeman beating up a woman for no reason.

That doesn't get a pass from me. Maybe it does from you.

If that cop is that reactive, he should go on vacation immediately and/or quit the force. He's out of control. Those are perfect examples of police brutality. The cop treated two women, ordinary citizens violently and without provocation.

 

[The Infidel]

Frankly, I'm not too happy with police pepper spraying an 84 year old woman, and I don't care if she IS an anarchist.

If the cop can't handle the bullshit without getting violent he should retire.

Were you there?

Did he just pick her out of the crowd? Or was she with a larger group?

If she was with a large group.... well, shit happens.

If she was all by her lonesome.... Im with you and you little cheerleader BDBOOP, shame on them.
I doubt thats what happened though.

She knew what she was getting into... she has a long history of being an activist. She knew the risks going in.
I admit... it looks bad, but think of what the NYPD is having to deal with day in and day out.
I think something bad is going to happen... I pray I am wrong though.

 

[The Infidel]

Shame on me? I grew up in Brooklyn and the NYPD I knew was as corrupt and brutal as can be imagined.

This cop is beating on women for no reason. Shame on you.

Im not saying they are all w/o sin.... I grew up alot in New Orleans.... believe me, I know corruption.
I just think she, if she had those credentials, she could/should have gotten an escort to go down there with her.

Tell me... how the Hell are they supposed to know she is no imposter with a "hat"?

C'mon Sky....
How inn the Hell are they supposed to know she is not an imposter

Look bud,

The cop should have known better. They wear the freakin hats to notice police that they are neutral observers.

This observer happened to be a retired judge that noticed the policeman beating up a woman for no reason.

That doesn't get a pass from me. Maybe it does from you.

If that cop is that reactive, he should go on vacation immediately and/or quit the force. He's out of control.

Look Toots,

So by your logic.... all the OWS freaks should go get them an "official observer hat" and be treated special.

What then???

 

[Sky Dancer]

Im not saying they are all w/o sin.... I grew up alot in New Orleans.... believe me, I know corruption.
I just think she, if she had those credentials, she could/should have gotten an escort to go down there with her.

Tell me... how the Hell are they supposed to know she is no imposter with a "hat"?

C'mon Sky....
How inn the Hell are they supposed to know she is not an imposter

Look bud,

The cop should have known better. They wear the freakin hats to notice police that they are neutral observers.

This observer happened to be a retired judge that noticed the policeman beating up a woman for no reason.

That doesn't get a pass from me. Maybe it does from you.

If that cop is that reactive, he should go on vacation immediately and/or quit the force. He's out of control.

Look Toots,

So by your logic.... all the OWS freaks should go get them an "official observer hat" and be treated special.

What then???

You think people should be beat up just because they are "OWS freaks"? Neither of these women fit the category but you don't care if they are brutalized.

That sucks, buddy boy.

You only give a shit about cops, not about two women, one who is beat with a club and the other shoved against a wall FOR NO REASON.

Have you lost your mind? You like the "special treatment" these two law abiding women my age got?

That cop should be suspended and investigated. He lost it.

What has changed in the American character where not only can authority behave as if we’re all in an armed camp, but a sizeable part of the nation can be convinced that it’s just about a bunch of dirty hippies taking over a park.

 

[The Infidel]

Look bud,

The cop should have known better. They wear the freakin hats to notice police that they are neutral observers.

This observer happened to be a retired judge that noticed the policeman beating up a woman for no reason.

That doesn't get a pass from me. Maybe it does from you.

If that cop is that reactive, he should go on vacation immediately and/or quit the force. He's out of control.

Look Toots,

So by your logic.... all the OWS freaks should go get them an "official observer hat" and be treated special.

What then???

You think people should be beat up just because they are "OWS freaks"? Neither of these women fit the category but you don't care if they are brutalized.

That sucks, buddy boy.

You only give a shit about cops, not about two women, one who is beat with a club and the other shoved against a wall FOR NO REASON.

Have you lost your mind? You like the "special treatment" these two law abiding women my age got?

That cop should be suspended and investigated. He lost it.

What has changed in the American character where not only can authority behave as if we’re all in an armed camp, but a sizeable part of the nation can be convinced that it’s just about a bunch of dirty hippies taking over a park.

No.....!


No, I think it all SUX!

But until you are faced with what those officers are being faced with, dont judge them!

It sux.... I felt bad to see that little old lady maised.... I thought to myself, that could be my grandma. But my grandma knows better that to be there getting in the cops face.

And as for your friend.... I have been in her shoes.
I used to travel with a band, and I was the guy behind the camera when a riot broke out. I put myself right in the middle of it all, and I got man handled quite brutally, but I knew what I was getting into.

Why was her daughter there....?


And come on with the buddy boy shit.... really? C'mon... we're friends. No need to get personal OK?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Look Toots,

So by your logic.... all the OWS freaks should go get them an "official observer hat" and be treated special.

What then???

You think people should be beat up just because they are "OWS freaks"? Neither of these women fit the category but you don't care if they are brutalized.

That sucks, buddy boy.

You only give a shit about cops, not about two women, one who is beat with a club and the other shoved against a wall FOR NO REASON.

Have you lost your mind? You like the "special treatment" these two law abiding women my age got?

That cop should be suspended and investigated. He lost it.

What has changed in the American character where not only can authority behave as if we’re all in an armed camp, but a sizeable part of the nation can be convinced that it’s just about a bunch of dirty hippies taking over a park.

No.....!


No, I think it all SUX!

But until you are faced with what those officers are being faced with, dont judge them!

It sux.... I felt bad to see that little old lady maised.... I thought to myself, that could be my grandma. But my grandma knows better that to be there getting in the cops face.

And as for your friend.... I have been in her shoes.
I used to travel with a band, and I was the guy behind the camera when a riot broke out. I put myself right in the middle of it all, and I got man handled quite brutally, but I knew what I was getting into.

Why was her daughter there....?


And come on with the buddy boy shit.... really? C'mon... we're friends. No need to get personal OK?

If a cop beat ME to the ground with a club, for being worried, and asking about my child, and then shoved another woman to the wall and threatened to arrest her for questioning his action, I AM going to judge him. I am going to judge him as a cop who was out of his mind and shouldn't be working in that position.

You give him a pass. I don't.

That woman didn't know where her daughter was. She was worried. You assumed the worst about that mother and her daughter. You assume that her daughter was some scum protestor who deserved to be arrested and OWS scum deserve to be treated badly.

Maybe you don't think that way at all, but it seems to me your benefit of the doubt only goes one way and that's in the direction of authority. Mine does not. I've seen authority misused too many times.

You don't call me "toots" and I won't call you "buddy boy".

 

[The Infidel]

If a cop beat ME to the ground with a club for being worried and asking about my child and then shoved another woman to the wall and threatened her for questioning him, I am going to judge him. He was out of his mind.

You give him a pass. I don't.

That woman didn't know where her daughter was. She was worried. You assume the worst about that mother and her daughter.

You assume that her daughter was some scum protestor who deserved to be arrested and OWS scum deserve to be treated badly.

Maybe you don't think that at all, but it seems to me your benefit of the doubt only goes one way and that's in the direction of authority.

You don't call me "toots" and I won't call you "buddy boy".

Look Sky, I was'nt there.... neither were you.

If I see video of what you describe, maybe you could be right. I dont know... I wasnt there.
Yes, I am judging the OWS protestors by what I HAVE seen with my eyes. I dont like what I am seeing.

As for the "toots" remark... go look at it. You called me "Bud" first and I called you that with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, OK? It was a joke... or a dig. All in fun though

I just know that everybody seems to be attacking the cops first and I find it disturbing. They are that is standing between us and total anarchy.
I feel bad for them.... and this is coming from a guy that has been arrested for NO good reason a couple times. (both times judges threw the case out) I have been there.
At one time I was "down for the cause"... then I grew up

 

[Sky Dancer]

If a cop beat ME to the ground with a club for being worried and asking about my child and then shoved another woman to the wall and threatened her for questioning him, I am going to judge him. He was out of his mind.

You give him a pass. I don't.

That woman didn't know where her daughter was. She was worried. You assume the worst about that mother and her daughter.

You assume that her daughter was some scum protestor who deserved to be arrested and OWS scum deserve to be treated badly.

Maybe you don't think that at all, but it seems to me your benefit of the doubt only goes one way and that's in the direction of authority.

You don't call me "toots" and I won't call you "buddy boy".

Look Sky, I was'nt there.... neither were you.

If I see video of what you describe, maybe you could be right. I dont know... I wasnt there.
Yes, I am judging the OWS protestors by what I HAVE seen with my eyes. I dont like what I am seeing.

As for the "toots" remark... go look at it. You called me "Bud" first and I called you that with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, OK? It was a joke... or a dig. All in fun though

I just know that everybody seems to be attacking the cops first and I find it disturbing. They are that is standing between us and total anarchy.
I feel bad for them.... and this is coming from a guy that has been arrested for NO good reason a couple times. (both times judges threw the case out) I have been there.
At one time I was "down for the cause"... then I grew up

This is not total anarchy. This is a protest movement. We have a right in the US to assembly. This isn't the USSR, Syria, Iran or China.

I feel bad for the cops too, but I don't support them in using excessive force. That officer should be investigated for misconduct. He was crazy.

That 84 year old woman who was pepper sprayed was "down for the cause", AND grown up. Stop watching so much Fox News. Stop assuming ALL the OWS protestors are idiots just because Rush tells you so.