What is the proper method of dealing with crowd control ...

[Amelia]

What is the proper method of dealing with people who have repeatedly disobeyed lawful orders to disperse?

Do you think the OWS are intentionally pushing police to the point where the only way the police can enforce the law is to do things which make for "good" anti-cop TV?


Is physically dragging lawbreakers away more appropriate than pepper spray? Some in-the-know have said no, that physically carrying people away comes with its own set of risks and liabilities.

 

[bodecea]

Did MacArthur have the right idea with the Bonus Army?

 

[L.K.Eder]

proportionate force, aka nuke them from orbit.

 

[Warrior102]

What is the proper method of dealing with people who have repeatedly disobeyed lawful orders to disperse?

Do you think the OWS are intentionally pushing police to the point where the only way the police can enforce the law is to do things which make for "good" anti-cop TV?


Is physically dragging lawbreakers away more appropriate than pepper spray? Some in-the-know have said no, that physically carrying people away comes with its own set of risks and liabilities.

Baton, tazer, water cannon, waterboarding, rubber bullets, K9s, - all good.

 

[paulitician]

Move the Police far away from the protests. Them showing up in their 'Call of Duty' Military outfits only increases the chances for violence. The Police seem to be instigating most of the violence these days. Just keep them away and allow the People to protest in peace. Less Police presence will eliminate most of the violence.

 

[Amelia]

Move the Police far away from the protests. Them showing up in their 'Call of Duty' Military outfits only increases the chances for violence. The Police seem to be instigating most of the violence these days. Just keep them away and allow the People to protest in peace. Less Police presence will eliminate most of the violence.

Move the police away from the protests?

In other words, do not allow the police to enforce the law?


Then who is going to enforce the law?

Who is going to clear the thoroughfares so that emergency vehicles can get through? Who is going to unblock public pathways so that they are still wheelchair accessible? Who is going to clean the areas so that infectious diseases and parasites aren't spread? ...

 

[bodecea]

Interesting range of ideas here from the Righties.

 

[paulitician]

Move the Police far away from the protests. Them showing up in their 'Call of Duty' Military outfits only increases the chances for violence. The Police seem to be instigating most of the violence these days. Just keep them away and allow the People to protest in peace. Less Police presence will eliminate most of the violence.

Move the police away from the protests?

In other words, do not allow the police to enforce the law?


Then who is going to enforce the law?

Who is going to clear the thoroughfares so that emergency vehicles can get through? Who is going to unblock public pathways so that they are still wheelchair accessible? Who is going to clean the areas so that infectious diseases and parasites aren't spread? ...

Well freedom & democracy can be messy. As long as they're peaceful,i don't have a problem with them. After all,i'm sure Gandhi,Martin Luther King,and the Dahli Lama inconvenienced a few during some of their protests too. It's the Police showing up in their 'Call of Duty' Military outfits that incites violence. They just can't wait to try out their toys like pepper spray,rubber bullets,and tasers. It's their 'Call of Duty' fantasy come to life. Keep the Police away at a good distance and these protests will be peaceful. Just give the protesters room to breathe.

 

[Caroljo]

I think there are actually SOME in the OWS protests that are there for a reason (but haven't really heard what it actually is). If they're serious about this protest, they need to get rid of all the homeless and problem children that have joined them. They don't know why they're there anyway but to get the free handouts or steal from the real protestors. If the protestors don't like what's happening to them then they need to stop the protests, get rid of the bums, then get a little more organized and do this the right way. All that's happening now is they're pissing everyone off because of the ones that want to cause the problems. The problem children in this group are the ones keeping people from being able to get to their jobs, and they're hurting the small businesses that are people's only income, and they're ALL going to start fighting back soon when they've had enough of it. I don't think pepper spraying them like the video showed is right either, but i'm sure the police have just about had enough. The protests are not being aimed in the right direction to start with, they need to be at the White House, and at Congress. I'm afraid nothing good is going to come out of this if they don't change their tactics. I understand most of this protest is about jobs...but then they have some idiot on video saying he quit his job so he could attend the protest! I've heard of several like this...how is this going to help their cause? I'm not against what they're doing, i just think they didn't think it through very well.

 

[paulitician]

Most protests i've come across are usually peaceful until the Gestapo arrives. They show up ready to attack and then blame the violence on the protesters. That's standard operating procedure for the Police. It's always the Protesters' fault. That's why it's vital to have your own recording equipment handy. The Police will lie. This has been proven time & time again. They will not hesitate to fudge their reports.

Having your own recordings of the event really can save you. Look at what they did to those kids in California. If there was no video,the Police would have filed a false report claiming the kids were being violent. Obviously those kids were anything but being violent. So definitely have your recording equipment handy. You'll very likely need it.

 

[SAT2]

What is the proper method of dealing with people who have repeatedly disobeyed lawful orders to disperse?

Do you think the OWS are intentionally pushing police to the point where the only way the police can enforce the law is to do things which make for "good" anti-cop TV?


Is physically dragging lawbreakers away more appropriate than pepper spray? Some in-the-know have said no, that physically carrying people away comes with its own set of risks and liabilities.

Baton, tazer, water cannon, waterboarding, rubber bullets, K9s, - all good.

Another fan of fascism heard from!

I think there are actually SOME in the OWS protests that are there for a reason (but haven't really heard what it actually is). If they're serious about this protest, they need to get rid of all the homeless and problem children that have joined them. They don't know why they're there anyway but to get the free handouts or steal from the real protestors. If the protestors don't like what's happening to them then they need to stop the protests, get rid of the bums, then get a little more organized and do this the right way. All that's happening now is they're pissing everyone off because of the ones that want to cause the problems. The problem children in this group are the ones keeping people from being able to get to their jobs, and they're hurting the small businesses that are people's only income, and they're ALL going to start fighting back soon when they've had enough of it. I don't think pepper spraying them like the video showed is right either, but i'm sure the police have just about had enough. The protests are not being aimed in the right direction to start with, they need to be at the White House, and at Congress. I'm afraid nothing good is going to come out of this if they don't change their tactics. I understand most of this protest is about jobs...but then they have some idiot on video saying he quit his job so he could attend the protest! I've heard of several like this...how is this going to help their cause? I'm not against what they're doing, i just think they didn't think it through very well.

The police have had enough of what?

Most protests i've come across are usually peaceful until the Gestapo arrives. They show up ready to attack and then blame the violence on the protesters. That's standard operating procedure for the Police. It's always the Protesters' fault. That's why it's vital to have your own recording equipment handy. The Police will lie. This has been proven time & time again. They will not hesitate to fudge their reports.

Having your own recordings of the event really can save you. Look at what they did to those kids in California. If there was no video,the Police would have filed a false report claiming the kids were being violent. Obviously those kids were anything but being violent. So definitely have your recording equipment handy. You'll very likely need it.

Unfortunately true. Not universally true, but yes, a lot of officers are on authoritarian trips, and they are being encouraged by folks like caroljo.

 

[Amelia]

Move the Police far away from the protests. Them showing up in their 'Call of Duty' Military outfits only increases the chances for violence. The Police seem to be instigating most of the violence these days. Just keep them away and allow the People to protest in peace. Less Police presence will eliminate most of the violence.

Move the police away from the protests?

In other words, do not allow the police to enforce the law?


Then who is going to enforce the law?

Who is going to clear the thoroughfares so that emergency vehicles can get through? Who is going to unblock public pathways so that they are still wheelchair accessible? Who is going to clean the areas so that infectious diseases and parasites aren't spread? ...

Well freedom & democracy can be messy. As long as they're peaceful,i don't have a problem with them. After all,i'm sure Gandhi,Martin Luther King,and the Dahli Lama inconvenienced a few during some of their protests too. It's the Police showing up in their 'Call of Duty' Military outfits that incites violence. They just can't wait to try out their toys like pepper spray,rubber bullets,and tasers. It's their 'Call of Duty' fantasy come to life. Keep the Police away at a good distance and these protests will be peaceful. Just give the protesters room to breathe.

As long as the protestors peacefully stop first responders from getting to people who are having a heart attack, you're fine with them?

As long as they peacefully stop wheelchair bound women from leaving a building, you're fine with them?

As long as they peacefully spread scabies and tuberculosis, you're fine with them?



Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[paulitician]

What is the proper method of dealing with people who have repeatedly disobeyed lawful orders to disperse?

Do you think the OWS are intentionally pushing police to the point where the only way the police can enforce the law is to do things which make for "good" anti-cop TV?


Is physically dragging lawbreakers away more appropriate than pepper spray? Some in-the-know have said no, that physically carrying people away comes with its own set of risks and liabilities.

Baton, tazer, water cannon, waterboarding, rubber bullets, K9s, - all good.

Another fan of fascism heard from!

I think there are actually SOME in the OWS protests that are there for a reason (but haven't really heard what it actually is). If they're serious about this protest, they need to get rid of all the homeless and problem children that have joined them. They don't know why they're there anyway but to get the free handouts or steal from the real protestors. If the protestors don't like what's happening to them then they need to stop the protests, get rid of the bums, then get a little more organized and do this the right way. All that's happening now is they're pissing everyone off because of the ones that want to cause the problems. The problem children in this group are the ones keeping people from being able to get to their jobs, and they're hurting the small businesses that are people's only income, and they're ALL going to start fighting back soon when they've had enough of it. I don't think pepper spraying them like the video showed is right either, but i'm sure the police have just about had enough. The protests are not being aimed in the right direction to start with, they need to be at the White House, and at Congress. I'm afraid nothing good is going to come out of this if they don't change their tactics. I understand most of this protest is about jobs...but then they have some idiot on video saying he quit his job so he could attend the protest! I've heard of several like this...how is this going to help their cause? I'm not against what they're doing, i just think they didn't think it through very well.

The police have had enough of what?

Most protests i've come across are usually peaceful until the Gestapo arrives. They show up ready to attack and then blame the violence on the protesters. That's standard operating procedure for the Police. It's always the Protesters' fault. That's why it's vital to have your own recording equipment handy. The Police will lie. This has been proven time & time again. They will not hesitate to fudge their reports.

Having your own recordings of the event really can save you. Look at what they did to those kids in California. If there was no video,the Police would have filed a false report claiming the kids were being violent. Obviously those kids were anything but being violent. So definitely have your recording equipment handy. You'll very likely need it.

Unfortunately true. Not universally true, but yes, a lot of officers are on authoritarian trips, and they are being encouraged by folks like caroljo.

Yes,many of them are roided up gung-ho idiots. They just can't wait to play with their pepper spray,rubber bullets,and taser toys. They initiate and incite most of the violence at protests. Local Governments should order them to remain a good distance from the protests. There is no reason for them to be in the peoples' faces. And definitely always have your own recording equipment handy because they will lie and claim the protesters were violent. Just have a big separation space between peaceful protesters and the Police. That will solve the violence problem.

 

[Toome]

Police officers order you to disperse, you disperse. If you don't, then they can use reasonable force to get you to disperse. The use of the spray was reasonable force.

The police either enforce the law or they do not. If the intent is to not have them enforce it, then don't deploy them and live with the consequences such as the rapes and robberies that occur at other OWS rallies.

This is a no-brainer.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I recommend horses and sabers and German Shepard dogs.

 

[Liability]

At the risk of being serious:

The UC Davis case is an interesting example.

The "kids" weren't doing anything. No threats of violence. No violence. Fuck, no movement. In pertinent part, they were just sitting there, emphasis on the word "just."

So the term "crowd control" is a bit of misnomer. They were already more or less under control.

And to many of our lib friends, that's the SOLE question. It is the alpha and the omega.

Accordingly, let's see if this correctly restates their basic premise:

"If they kids aren't DOING anything, then any use or display or threatened us of force is -- impermissible."

I believe that does fairly summarize their position. And, I submit that their position is silly. It's sophistry. It's wrong.

The kids were doing something. They WERE sitting there. But they HAD been ordered to disperse.

Why is that a supposedly unlawful order?

Who gave the Occupod-os the right to determine for themselves what laws and rules and regulations they would comply with?

 

[westwall]

IMO the best thing to do is ignore them. If they block entry way to buildings and other acts that deprive others their ability to work then bring in a large pile of horse crap and place it upwind till they disperse.

If that fails, then resort to water balloons! No one likes to be cold and wet.

 

[conner700]

The use of chemical gases on peaceful protesters is not resonable method of crowd control.

It is in fact abuse of force.

Where do you get your information from?

 

[Liability]

The use of chemical gases on peaceful protesters is not resonable method of crowd control.

It is in fact abuse of force.

Where do you get your information from?

The use of some pepper spray is perfectly reasonable to disperse a crowd which has refused a lawful command TO disperse.

It is a minimal use of reasonable force.

Where do you get your information from?

(See how this works, yet, dipshit?)

 

[The Infidel]

Police officers order you to disperse, you disperse. If you don't, then they can use reasonable force to get you to disperse. The use of the spray was reasonable force.

The police either enforce the law or they do not. If the intent is to not have them enforce it, then don't deploy them and live with the consequences such as the rapes and robberies that occur at other OWS rallies.

This is a no-brainer.

Im sick of the police ALWAYS being the bad guy here..... in that context, the OWS are getting their way.