CDZ What is Race? What is 'White Race'? Where do These Concepts Come From?

[JimBowie1958]

The question is whether we have common norms of behavior. Without them, we are merely co-inhabitants within a particular geographic location.

Whose should change? Theirs or ours? Eventually, we melt into the pot pretty much. With some pretty good culinary introductions and some fun festivities along the way. Change and difference are not necessarily bad things. Just challenging things.[/QUOTE]
There are some core values we should not allow to drift into the multicultural salad bowl, things like humanism, opposition to fatalism and superstition, adherence (in theory) to the use of Reason as a guide, the admonition to pursue Truth as opposed to avoiding shame, and so many other values that have made this country what it is.

Racial purity is poppycock, but holding fast to our core cultural beliefs is essential to keep us from going the way of Byzantium.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The only functional value to the concept of race is in understanding cultural differences and biases.

I think the only functional use of the racial construct as we experience it in the U.S. is to provide a sophistic basis for folks to

• invent and promote derisive generalizations about other folks who are different from themselves, and
• invent and promote aggrandizing generalizations about other folks who are similar to themselves.

It may be that race is useful in guiding a small handful of medical regimens. For example, certain physiological maladies are far more common in one race than they are in others. It makes sense then that doctors would look for a "common to whites" ailment as the cause of a white person's illness before testing for a "common to Asians" ailment as the cause.

Race could be used over time to breed out of the human species the recessive genes that hinder each of the races. I don't know when or if folks will figure that out and use it to their advantage. I'm not suggesting that, say, black folks actively seek out, say, Asians, because Asians are less prone to sickle cell anemia, nor am I saying that Asians should actively seek black mates to increase body mass or penis size (humor), but I'm saying that it would be beneficial to both if they don't actively eschew such pairings. After all, we know that species survival is greatly enhanced my more cross breeding rather than less.

Every other species on the planet chooses mates based on demonstrated genetic superiority. Why humans have actively gone against Mother Nature's "good sense" is quite beyond me, especially as we, unlike every other creature on the planet, know beyond a shadow of doubt that one cannot fool or elude Mother Nature.

Actually sickle cell is caused by a genetic mutation to protect against malaria. We dont want this to disappear as long as there are mosquitos.

TY

Holy double-edged sword. Have one copy of the mutation and you're fine and you have a natural resistance to malaria. Have two and you have sickle cell. On the other hand, there is a cure and several prophylactic drugs for malaria; thus given the choice between carrying a copy of the sickle cell mutation and not, I'd just as soon not. It seems too that folks who live in malaria prone areas can develop an immunity to the disease via how the immune system works. Thus I fall of the side of thinking the sickle cell mutation is one we can do without...but that's just me. Perhaps others feel differently about it?

Dont you think genetic engineering will fix all that?

We are on the cusp of a Eugenics Utopia, with genetic engineering, so why not go full bore with it and make us all immune to everything?

 

[OldLady]

The question is whether we have common norms of behavior. Without them, we are merely co-inhabitants within a particular geographic location.

Whose should change? Theirs or ours? Eventually, we melt into the pot pretty much. With some pretty good culinary introductions and some fun festivities along the way. Change and difference are not necessarily bad things. Just challenging things.

There are some core values we should not allow to drift into the multicultural salad bowl, things like humanism, opposition to fatalism and superstition, adherence (in theory) to the use of Reason as a guide, the admonition to pursue Truth as opposed to avoiding shame, and so many other values that have made this country what it is.

Racial purity is poppycock, but holding fast to our core cultural beliefs is essential to keep us from going the way of Byzantium.[/QUOTE]
There are some core values we should not allow to drift into the multicultural salad bowl, things like humanism, opposition to fatalism and superstition, adherence (in theory) to the use of Reason as a guide, the admonition to pursue Truth as opposed to avoiding shame, and so many other values that have made this country what it is.
I agree. I did not know that any of those things were under attack in this country, though?

 

[JimBowie1958]

I agree. I did not know that any of those things were under attack in this country, though?

Well most Asian cultures are fatalistic, hence the caste system and the m any religious systems of Asia that are also fatalistic.

Generally cultures that believe in re-incarnation are fatalistic, and they regard the station one is born into in life to be the judgement of the gods or the Universe, etc.

These systems of belief have always opposed improving their society as it is disrespectful (at a minimum) to the judgement of these superior forces that passed judgement on the person already.

 

[anotherlife]

Race is who you want to kill. For example, in England, up till the 1950's, you were a race if you were Irish. Taxis had displayed "no Irish no Blacks no Indians". Today this is more characteristic to east Europe though, for example the "no German" attitude of the Czech Republic, or the "no Poles" attitude of Lithuanian authorities.

 

[anotherlife]

.....

 

[dani67]

aryan are best race.

 

[JimBowie1958]

.....

well said!

 

[JimBowie1958]

aryan are best race. semitic are worst race

 

[dani67]

arabs arent human :
99 % of terrorist are arabs

 

[jwoodie]

Race is not anything like species.

Would you care to explain the difference? Or do you think that race is a mental, rather than physical, distinction?

 

[JimBowie1958]

arabs arent human :
99 % of terrorist are arabs

Arabs are as human as anyone else.

 

[dani67]

arabs arent human :
99 % of terrorist are arabs

Arabs are as human as anyone else.

real arabs place: cage

 

[dani67]

arabs

 

[320 Years of History]

The only functional value to the concept of race is in understanding cultural differences and biases.

I think the only functional use of the racial construct as we experience it in the U.S. is to provide a sophistic basis for folks to

• invent and promote derisive generalizations about other folks who are different from themselves, and
• invent and promote aggrandizing generalizations about other folks who are similar to themselves.

It may be that race is useful in guiding a small handful of medical regimens. For example, certain physiological maladies are far more common in one race than they are in others. It makes sense then that doctors would look for a "common to whites" ailment as the cause of a white person's illness before testing for a "common to Asians" ailment as the cause.

Race could be used over time to breed out of the human species the recessive genes that hinder each of the races. I don't know when or if folks will figure that out and use it to their advantage. I'm not suggesting that, say, black folks actively seek out, say, Asians, because Asians are less prone to sickle cell anemia, nor am I saying that Asians should actively seek black mates to increase body mass or penis size (humor), but I'm saying that it would be beneficial to both if they don't actively eschew such pairings. After all, we know that species survival is greatly enhanced my more cross breeding rather than less.

Every other species on the planet chooses mates based on demonstrated genetic superiority. Why humans have actively gone against Mother Nature's "good sense" is quite beyond me, especially as we, unlike every other creature on the planet, know beyond a shadow of doubt that one cannot fool or elude Mother Nature.

Actually sickle cell is caused by a genetic mutation to protect against malaria. We dont want this to disappear as long as there are mosquitos.

TY

Holy double-edged sword. Have one copy of the mutation and you're fine and you have a natural resistance to malaria. Have two and you have sickle cell. On the other hand, there is a cure and several prophylactic drugs for malaria; thus given the choice between carrying a copy of the sickle cell mutation and not, I'd just as soon not. It seems too that folks who live in malaria prone areas can develop an immunity to the disease via how the immune system works. Thus I fall of the side of thinking the sickle cell mutation is one we can do without...but that's just me. Perhaps others feel differently about it?

Dont you think genetic engineering will fix all that?

We are on the cusp of a Eugenics Utopia, with genetic engineering, so why not go full bore with it and make us all immune to everything?

Personally, I'm okay with that too. You know me. I care about achieving the goal -- removing genetic causes of ailment and weakness from the species. If that means we use the evolutionary approach until we have an equally effective, no more ineffective and faster alternative, that's the route I'd pursue.

 

[jwoodie]

Race is a by-product of fear, ignorance and guilt. We are, slowly, coming to realize this, but it's gonna take a looong time before we're gonna be blind to these minor differences.

I think JimBowie's point that, "It seems to me that it is ethnicity and culture that most defines who we are by how we behave according to the things we have been taught to believe from childhood. Not what is in your DNA," is more on target. Culture shock is a real thing. The exaggeration of different groups' behavior by others who feel threatened or shocked by it is on this board 24/7, and is what we typically call "racism." But what we learn to be "normal" social behavior as children in our homes and communities is so fundamental to our outlooks that a group living by different norms is not easily embraced without practice and actual effort on our parts.
That is a GOOD reason to give young kids as many opportunities to learn about different cultures and attend school with different groups as possible.
I remember distinctly the first time I met a grandmother (a friend's) who wasn't old and overweight and didn't wear orthopedic shoes and a house dress. I was scandalized. Didn't want to accept that this woman was a grandmother at all. I certainly viewed her with great distrust.
The black community's emphasis on oral/verbal expression drives a taciturn Yankee like me NUTS. Shut up already and stop with the histrionics; you're holding up the line! We don't even cry in public, let alone carry on with the shrieking and wailing and fainting. Good lord.
Am I racist because I see differences in their culture? I don't THINK so. I would never treat a black student differently; I have black friends and have dated black guys. But there are differences and it takes some effort to accommodate those differences.

The question is whether we have common norms of behavior. Without them, we are merely co-inhabitants within a particular geographic location.

Whose should change? Theirs or ours? Eventually, we melt into the pot pretty much. With some pretty good culinary introductions and some fun festivities along the way. Change and difference are not necessarily bad things. Just challenging things.

As a teacher, you are obviously aware of disruptive and defiant behavior in the classroom. Do you consider this to be an acceptable cultural norm? The problem is that we are no longer a "melting pot." Instead, we are becoming a disharmonious collection of special interest groups whose aggrievements are constantly magnified by opportunistic politicians.

Disruptive and defiant behavior is NOT a cultural norm anywhere that I am aware of. It is a behavior I've encountered from various kids of various hues. We can meld if we accept living and working together. I actually blame folks with your apparent attitude for the lack of that, more than politicians.

PCDZ?

 

[OldLady]

I agree. I did not know that any of those things were under attack in this country, though?

Well most Asian cultures are fatalistic, hence the caste system and the m any religious systems of Asia that are also fatalistic.

Generally cultures that believe in re-incarnation are fatalistic, and they regard the station one is born into in life to be the judgement of the gods or the Universe, etc.

These systems of belief have always opposed improving their society as it is disrespectful (at a minimum) to the judgement of these superior forces that passed judgement on the person already.

Yes. I'd make a horrible Buddhist. Can't stop trying to fix everything. But I don't think they oppose improving society so much as accepting the fact that "shit happens." Do remember Jim, that the Calvinists who settled New England had similar fatalistic views, were highly superstitious, and also devised a pretty good caste system called slavery. Fortunately, Humanism and views of the Enlightenment prevailed. You are right we need to value those ideals; I just don't see them as being under attack at the moment, anyway.

 

[OldLady]

I think JimBowie's point that, "It seems to me that it is ethnicity and culture that most defines who we are by how we behave according to the things we have been taught to believe from childhood. Not what is in your DNA," is more on target. Culture shock is a real thing. The exaggeration of different groups' behavior by others who feel threatened or shocked by it is on this board 24/7, and is what we typically call "racism." But what we learn to be "normal" social behavior as children in our homes and communities is so fundamental to our outlooks that a group living by different norms is not easily embraced without practice and actual effort on our parts.
That is a GOOD reason to give young kids as many opportunities to learn about different cultures and attend school with different groups as possible.
I remember distinctly the first time I met a grandmother (a friend's) who wasn't old and overweight and didn't wear orthopedic shoes and a house dress. I was scandalized. Didn't want to accept that this woman was a grandmother at all. I certainly viewed her with great distrust.
The black community's emphasis on oral/verbal expression drives a taciturn Yankee like me NUTS. Shut up already and stop with the histrionics; you're holding up the line! We don't even cry in public, let alone carry on with the shrieking and wailing and fainting. Good lord.
Am I racist because I see differences in their culture? I don't THINK so. I would never treat a black student differently; I have black friends and have dated black guys. But there are differences and it takes some effort to accommodate those differences.

The question is whether we have common norms of behavior. Without them, we are merely co-inhabitants within a particular geographic location.

Whose should change? Theirs or ours? Eventually, we melt into the pot pretty much. With some pretty good culinary introductions and some fun festivities along the way. Change and difference are not necessarily bad things. Just challenging things.

As a teacher, you are obviously aware of disruptive and defiant behavior in the classroom. Do you consider this to be an acceptable cultural norm? The problem is that we are no longer a "melting pot." Instead, we are becoming a disharmonious collection of special interest groups whose aggrievements are constantly magnified by opportunistic politicians.

Disruptive and defiant behavior is NOT a cultural norm anywhere that I am aware of. It is a behavior I've encountered from various kids of various hues. We can meld if we accept living and working together. I actually blame folks with your apparent attitude for the lack of that, more than politicians.

PCDZ?

Politically correct Clean Debate Zone? No, I'm not being politically correct, just honest.

 

[jwoodie]

The question is whether we have common norms of behavior. Without them, we are merely co-inhabitants within a particular geographic location.

Whose should change? Theirs or ours? Eventually, we melt into the pot pretty much. With some pretty good culinary introductions and some fun festivities along the way. Change and difference are not necessarily bad things. Just challenging things.

As a teacher, you are obviously aware of disruptive and defiant behavior in the classroom. Do you consider this to be an acceptable cultural norm? The problem is that we are no longer a "melting pot." Instead, we are becoming a disharmonious collection of special interest groups whose aggrievements are constantly magnified by opportunistic politicians.

Disruptive and defiant behavior is NOT a cultural norm anywhere that I am aware of. It is a behavior I've encountered from various kids of various hues. We can meld if we accept living and working together. I actually blame folks with your apparent attitude for the lack of that, more than politicians.

PCDZ?

Politically correct Clean Debate Zone? No, I'm not being politically correct, just honest.

We have been mouthing this BS for 50 years. How's it working?

 

[OldLady]

Whose should change? Theirs or ours? Eventually, we melt into the pot pretty much. With some pretty good culinary introductions and some fun festivities along the way. Change and difference are not necessarily bad things. Just challenging things.

As a teacher, you are obviously aware of disruptive and defiant behavior in the classroom. Do you consider this to be an acceptable cultural norm? The problem is that we are no longer a "melting pot." Instead, we are becoming a disharmonious collection of special interest groups whose aggrievements are constantly magnified by opportunistic politicians.

Disruptive and defiant behavior is NOT a cultural norm anywhere that I am aware of. It is a behavior I've encountered from various kids of various hues. We can meld if we accept living and working together. I actually blame folks with your apparent attitude for the lack of that, more than politicians.

PCDZ?

Politically correct Clean Debate Zone? No, I'm not being politically correct, just honest.

We have been mouthing this BS for 50 years. How's it working?

Who is "we?" What BS? 50 years...you mean the Civil Rights Act? Can't tell you what is or isn't working until you bring this discussion down to my level. I've no idea what you're talking about.