What is it like to be an Israeli?

[montelatici]

Oh, I am sure that the Muslims and Christians were inviting the Europeans to return to "their" homeland and were packing their bags to make room for them so that the Europeans could rule the land after they (Muslims and Christians) left. Do you not realize how absurd you sound? No people want people from elsewhere to take their land and rule them.

 

[Daniyel]

Pretty much like France offered shelter for the Christian Iraqis

 

[Daniyel]

You tend to forget nobody wants to "rule" the Palestinians, only thing Israel wants is to live safety and last time is checked most of the Arabs/pals are very hostile.

 

[montelatici]

You tend to forget nobody wants to "rule" the Palestinians, only thing Israel wants is to live safety and last time is checked most of the Arabs/pals are very hostile.

You would be hostile too if a bunch of people settled in your land, threw out a bunch of your people and then held you and your people in Gulags where borders, air space and territorial sea are controlled by the invaders. You people really don't get it. You just don't recognize what you are doing to millions of people.

 

[toastman]

Did the people of Palestine agree to be invaded by the Europeans? What right did the British have to transfer Europeans to Palestine? Of course the Europeans occupied Palestine, what do you call arriving and taking over? The simple fact is that Europeans went to another continent, settled and took over Palestine renaming it Israel. Talk about believing propaganda.

No they didn't . In 1948 they legally declared independence after complying with all the necessary steps. What right did the Palestinians have to say no to Jewish immigration? They lived in certain areas there, but had no sovereignty over the land. You have a terrible grasp on history.

 

[toastman]

You would be hostile too if a bunch of people settled in your land, threw out a bunch of your people and then held you and your people in Gulags where borders, air space and territorial sea are controlled by the invaders. You people really don't get it. You just don't recognize what you are doing to millions of people.

And you don't recognize that Palestinian hostilities against Israel is hurting the Palestinians.

 

[montelatici]

No they didn't . In 1948 they legally declared independence after complying with all the necessary steps. What right did the Palestinians have to say no to Jewish immigration? They lived in certain areas there, but had no sovereignty over the land. You have a terrible grasp on history.

"What right did the Palestinians have to say no to Jewish immigration"? Are you out of your mind. That's like saying what right the Native Americans had to say about European immigration. You are clearly completely on a propaganda high. The Palestinians had been living in Palestine for thousands of years.

 

[aris2chat]

Oh, I am sure that the Muslims and Christians were inviting the Europeans to return to "their" homeland and were packing their bags to make room for them so that the Europeans could rule the land after they (Muslims and Christians) left. Do you not realize how absurd you sound? No people want people from elsewhere to take their land and rule them.

There was plenty of land and so few local population in what became the mandate. Arabs came for jobs after the Ottomans were gone.
Land that was unusable to the local farmers was developed by the incoming jews. Arabs wanting to make a big profit sold land to jews. Much of which the PLO decided to nullify per jordanian law, but no one was willing to give back the money they had been paid.
Deed disputes over claimed land that was abandoned or used by the state have been taken to Israeli court and many have been decided in favor or the palestinians. If specific land cannot be returned, the palestinian is compensated. Not all deeds are valid. Arafat was printing up fake deeds in Beirut for land never registers of owned, but that the palestinians had been renting or allowed to live in for working the farm.

 

[montelatici]

And you don't recognize that Palestinian hostilities against Israel is hurting the Palestinians.

Accepting Jewish rule and occupation would hurt the Palestinians more. As the ANC proved, violence is the only way to bring an oppressor to the table. Being sheep just plays into the oppressor's hand.

 

[toastman]

"What right did the Palestinians have to say no to Jewish immigration"? Are you out of your mind. That's like saying what right the Native Americans had to say about European immigration. You are clearly completely on a propaganda high. The Palestinians had been living in Palestine for thousands of years.

Ok, but they had no sovereignty! Do you understand that. Maybe I worded it wrong. They had the right to say no, but they certainly had no authority to decide weather European Jews could settle there or not. They owned land there, but that is all.

On a side note, does anyone else hate the new layout of this site???

 

[toastman]

Accepting Jewish rule and occupation would hurt the Palestinians more. As the ANC proved, violence is the only way to bring an oppressor to the table. Being sheep just plays into the oppressor's hand.

Violence has accomplished little to nothing for the Palestinians.

 

[montelatici]

There was plenty of land and so few local population in what became the mandate. Arabs came for jobs after the Ottomans were gone.
Land that was unusable to the local farmers was developed by the incoming jews. Arabs wanting to make a big profit sold land to jews. Much of which the PLO decided to nullify per jordanian law, but no one was willing to give back the money they had been paid.
Deed disputes over claimed land that was abandoned or used by the state have been taken to Israeli court and many have been decided in favor or the palestinians. If specific land cannot be returned, the palestinian is compensated. Not all deeds are valid. Arafat was printing up fake deeds in Beirut for land never registers of owned, but that the palestinians had been renting or allowed to live in for working the farm.

There was not plenty of land. Many of the Palestinians raised livestock, grazing lands were taken away from them and turned into farms, making the Palestinians paupers that had to work for the Jews. But that is all BS, the fact is Europeans went to Palestine settled there and took over. What the heck do you think any people would do when that happens. Thank the people who came from another continent settled and took over? You people are clearly cannot or do not want to face facts.

 

[aris2chat]

"What right did the Palestinians have to say no to Jewish immigration"? Are you out of your mind. That's like saying what right the Native Americans had to say about European immigration. You are clearly completely on a propaganda high. The Palestinians had been living in Palestine for thousands of years.

living on or working on does not mean they owned the land. If the land owner decided to sell the land the arabs had no legal right to object to the sale or to stay on the land if the new owner wanted them to move.
Share croppers work and share the profit of the harvest, but they do not own the land.
Some land they were allowed to claim if they registered the land and paid the taxes on it. Many did not want, or could not, to pay the tax or be obliged to military service under the Ottomans so they never registered. Land could then be bought for back taxes.

as in any country, the land belongs to the country first, and then to the deed holder. When Israel became a state all the land; arab, jewish or state, became part of Israel. All people became Israelis, or they left. They cannot take their land with them.

 

[toastman]

There was not plenty of land. Many of the Palestinians raised livestock, grazing lands were taken away from them and turned into farms, making the Palestinians paupers that had to work for the Jews. But that is all BS, the fact is Europeans went to Palestine settled there and took over. What the heck do you think any people would do when that happens. Thank the people who came from another continent settled and took over? You people are clearly cannot or do not want to face facts.

What so you mean took over?? There were two wars, both started by the Arabs. First the 1947 Mandatory Palestine war which started with attacks by Arabs against Jews . The Jews won this war and gained land in the process. You act like the Arabs did absolutely NOTHING at all. You act like they were all innocent farmers and a bunch of evil Jews came out of nowhere and attacked them for nothing.
Then there was the 1948 Arab Israeli war started when 5 Arab armies attacked Israel. In both cases, the Arabs lost, so they tried to play the victim and of course gullible propagandists like you eat it up!

 

[toastman]

living on or working on does not mean they owned the land. If the land owner decided to sell the land the arabs had no legal right to object to the sale or to stay on the land if the new owner wanted them to move.
Share croppers work and share the profit of the harvest, but they do not own the land.
Some land they were allowed to claim if they registered the land and paid the taxes on it. Many did not want, or could not, to pay the tax or be obliged to military service under the Ottomans so they never registered. Land could then be bought for back taxes.

as in any country, the land belongs to the country first, and then to the deed holder. When Israel became a state all the land; arab, jewish or state, became part of Israel. All people became Israelis, or they left. They cannot take their land with them.

Yes, I forgot to mention that Jess also bought land.

 

[montelatici]

Ok, but they had no sovereignty! Do you understand that. Maybe I worded it wrong. They had the right to say no, but they certainly had no authority to decide weather European Jews could settle there or not. They owned land there, but that is all.

On a side note, does anyone else hate the new layout of this site???

I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. The Pope, the arbitrator of the world at the time divided the Americas between the Portuguese and Spaniards and invited them to settle the lands. Does that mean the Native Americans had no authority to say no? I don't get your logic, or morality. The Palestinians were the indigenous people, of course they had the right to say no.

 

[montelatici]

What so you mean took over?? There were two wars, both started by the Arabs. First the 1947 Mandatory Palestine war which started with attacks by Arabs against Jews . The Jews won this war and gained land in the process. You act like the Arabs did absolutely NOTHING at all. You act like they were all innocent farmers and a bunch of evil Jews came out of nowhere and attacked them for nothing.
Then there was the 1948 Arab Israeli war started when 5 Arab armies attacked Israel. In both cases, the Arabs lost, so they tried to play the victim and of course gullible propagandists like you eat it up!

Of course there was a war. There was an attempt by the Arabs to prevent the takeover of Palestine by the Europeans. The Native Americans lost too, doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean that the non-Jews don't have the right to continue to fight to get their land back. Unless the Jews can exterminate or remove all the non-Jews they will have to accept a secular democratic state that will not be majority Jewish. Or, of course, the violence will continue forever or until there are so many non-Jews that it will be impossible for the Jews to maintain control over them as they do now. That's just the unfortunate fact.

 

[aris2chat]

There was not plenty of land. Many of the Palestinians raised livestock, grazing lands were taken away from them and turned into farms, making the Palestinians paupers that had to work for the Jews. But that is all BS, the fact is Europeans went to Palestine settled there and took over. What the heck do you think any people would do when that happens. Thank the people who came from another continent settled and took over? You people are clearly cannot or do not want to face facts.

Less than half a million on land that used to support millions during Roman time.
Deserts, swamps, rocky hill sides with modern methods became usable. Land the local arab rejected.
Many land owners and religious institutions also were willing to sell land to the jews. Much of northern Israel was sold by a Lebanese family. Egypts, turks, syrians all sold land that they were not making a profit on or was too hard to work. Churches sold extra land to raise money. Even Arafat's family sold land in and around Jerusalem.
There is still undeveloped land but too little water so Israel will have to lay pipes and electricity in order to utilize the land.

There is unused or under developed land in the WB and G that the palestinians could use if they invested money instead of tunnels and weapons. The crowding in camps is to get services from the UN instead of creating jobs and growth of their land.

 

[toastman]

Of course there was a war. There was an attempt by the Arabs to prevent the takeover of Palestine by the Europeans. The Native Americans lost too, doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean that the non-Jews don't have the right to continue to fight to get their land back. Unless the Jews can exterminate or remove all the non-Jews they will have to accept a secular democratic state that will not be majority Jewish. Or, of course, the violence will continue forever or until there are so many non-Jews that it will be impossible for the Jews to maintain control over them as they do now. That's just the unfortunate fact.

False. The first war started right after the partition plan was recommended:

In the immediate aftermath of the General Assembly's vote on the Partition plan, the explosions of joy among the Jewish community were counterbalanced by the expression of discontent among the Arab community. Soon after, violence broke out from both sides and became more and more prevalent. Murders, reprisals, and counter-reprisals came fast on each other's heels, resulting in dozens of victims killed on both sides in the process. The impasse persisted as British forces didn't intervene to put a stop to the escalating cycles of violence generated byIZL and LHI terrorism and Arab skirmishes.[17][18][19][20]

The first casualties after the adoption of Resolution 181(II) by the General Assembly were passengers on a Jewish bus driving on the Coastal Plain near Kfar Sirkin on 30 November. An eight-man gang from Jaffa ambushed the bus killing five and wounding others. Half an hour later they ambushed a second bus, southbound from Hadera, killing two more. At other places, Arab snipers skirmished Jewish buses in Jerusalem and Haifa.[18]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947–48_Civil_War_in_Mandatory_Palestine

 

[member]

I see you speak honestly and from the heart Lipush.

The biggest schism between the view of the world you express and that of the rest of the world is about the Zionist dream. For us, when we balance the dream of an Israel for Jews to be happy and safe, with the dream of Palestinians to be free in their own state, happy & safe both seem good, "for those they would embrace".

There lies the rub.

But I wont get into that here. And ask no one else diverts to that. There are 10,000 other threads to discuss where & why it goes wrong.

Do we have any Palestinian contributors willing to talk about how their lives are laid out? Maybe even someone from Gaza?

".


ohhhh. Sealadevildog.....


nobody does ". --- but you.......

the jig is up jerk !