What Is It About "Obamacare" That Is Going To "Ruin America"?

[George Costanza]

Time and time again, I hear Republican politicians saying how "Obamacare" (i.e., the Affordable Health Care Act) will "ruin the country." They hardly ever say HOW it will "ruin" our country.

So that's my question: precisely what is it about the AHCA that will ruin our country? I would like to hear from those who agree with the objecting Republicans. Tell us specifically what it is about the AHCA that is going to "ruin America."

 

[peach174]

The very high taxes that will hit middle income.
The stymied growth of Small Businesses.

 

[jwoodie]

Why don't you start by explaining what Obamacare is? We seem to get new revelations about its requirements and corresponding waivers on a daily basis. Do you really think the federal government can manage anything more efficiently than the private sector? Do you think it should have the power to pick and choose "approved" health providers? Do you understand that someone has to pay for this fiasco?

 

[Rozman]

Time and time again, I hear Republican politicians saying how "Obamacare" (i.e., the Affordable Health Care Act) will "ruin the country." They hardly ever say HOW it will "ruin" our country.

So that's my question: precisely what is it about the AHCA that will ruin our country? I would like to hear from those who agree with the objecting Republicans. Tell us specifically what it is about the AHCA that is going to "ruin America."

You need to watch something other then MSNBC the Obama communications network...
I mean really.

 

[Rozman]

Just for starters look at how it was implemented.

 

[boedicca]

Turning a Free People into Government Chattel fits the definition of Destroying America.

 

[KevinWestern]

Time and time again, I hear Republican politicians saying how "Obamacare" (i.e., the Affordable Health Care Act) will "ruin the country." They hardly ever say HOW it will "ruin" our country.

So that's my question: precisely what is it about the AHCA that will ruin our country? I would like to hear from those who agree with the objecting Republicans. Tell us specifically what it is about the AHCA that is going to "ruin America."

Well, for starters it's extremely expensive and being implemented at a time when the US gov't has no money to spend. The website development alone cost us over $650,000,000. I work in advertising, and why the website cost that amount is beyond me (as I'm familiar with site development). If we can’t repay our bills the dollar will tank and we will be facing some very bad times.

Secondly, the bill will impose a lot of costs onto people of lower classes who can’t afford these costs in the first place. Have you seen the premium prices and the penalties for not paying those premiums? It’s bullshit. If your a person struggling with a minimum wage job, how in the world are you supposed to dish out $250/month for sub-par healthcare? And these high premiums assume that a large amount of folks will enroll...

Thirdly, the bill was drafted in large part by the pharmaceutical companies and insurance agencies. I assure you these are big businesses who exist solely to to make money, and that’s what they will do. However, now we won’t have the option to NOT pay them; we will be FORCED to pay them (and whatever the heck they’ll want to charge).

Each of these 3 points is an example of something that can do some major damage to the United States. It’s not a good thing in my opinion and should be immediately repealed..

 

[emilynghiem]

Time and time again, I hear Republican politicians saying how "Obamacare" (i.e., the Affordable Health Care Act) will "ruin the country." They hardly ever say HOW it will "ruin" our country.

So that's my question: precisely what is it about the AHCA that will ruin our country? I would like to hear from those who agree with the objecting Republicans. Tell us specifically what it is about the AHCA that is going to "ruin America."

Some traditional answers:
1. The same way the public schools and public housing lowered standards in order to serve mass populations at the minimal quality levels to afford covering more people, the opposition envisions that medical care will be reduced in quality to be made affordable to people not paying for the services they receive, and will also lead to higher quality doctors and programs shutting down because they cannot compete. This is especially troublesome that people who would rather pay directly for programs and services by the free market system are financially penalized so that their money is taken from them and forced to pay for these subquality programs expected from govt. They no longer have free choice to invest in businesses or schools or charities directly to provide top services, as with private vs public schools, but would be penalized by income tax and forced to fund only govt care or buy insurance instead of the equal freedom as before of paying for health care which isn't the same as buying insurance.

2. integrity of both the Constitutional limits on federal govt, the rights reserved to people and the states, and the conscience not to abuse majority rule politically to push party agenda above constitutional representation and inclusion of all people across the nation
is at stake. The issue of pushing the faulty thinking that you can tax your way into paying and covering more services, without representation of the people you are taxing and depending on paying into the system for others who will be carried by it; so the concept of no taxation without representation is at stake, where somehow you are so confident your ideas represent the people protesting that you can decide for them despite their protests.

This is very dangerous, like saying those people's interests and representation don't count in public policy because they aren't really valid objections, but just political nonsense.

other issues at stake

3. disregard for real solutions to lower health care costs so more people can be helped

the system of pushing insurance and govt care excludes other solutions such as spiritual healing which is more cost effective and can be applied to cure mental and criminal illness at the root cause instead of just methods of using medications to placate symptoms which drives up costs while not curing the problem

4. forcing people to go through govt instead of rewarding taxpayers for investing in businesses schools and charities to provide low cost services directly by more efficient means since these do not depend on forced funding, but rely on working better in order to operate sustainably. so the forced way of funding does not hold institutions accountable for performance, and that is why public housing and public schools have gone down, while privately run businesses and charities have to operate effectively in order to keep growing.

5. failure to address other systems needing reform such as the criminal justice system

if people were held accountable for their costs to society, instead of taxing the people who earn more and expecting that to average out and cover the people not earning their keep,
then there would be incentive not to commit crimes, abuses, fraud, etc. that create more damages than people can pay back. if citizenship were based on responsibility as a requirement, maybe we wouldn't have criminals racking up costs at taxpayers expense.
currently lawabiding citizens spend billions of dollars on prisons and the costs including health care for inmates who don't work to earn or pay back those costs.

so why not address this waste and use that to pay for health care for law abiding citizens?

as long as politicians take some shortcut of going through insurance or taxing companies and working citizens to pay the costs of those who can't afford their costs, then they are NOT FIXING THE PROBLEM

so that is the greatest harm caused is costing law abiding citizens or punishing the successful people for earning more than poor people, and not addressing what causes the poor people to keep costing more and not being able to pay for their own services.

instead of rewarding taxpayers workers and citizens or businesses and charities for implementing better solutions than govt
this policy seeks to fix part of the problem by taking money from mandates pushed on people who can afford to pay them and trying to cover the costs of people not paying in

not only are you stuck with the same problems creating the poverty, disparity and sickness to go cured to begin with

but now thanks to ACA you've added a whole new level of distraction and cost of fighting to educate people and to push for reforms to correct the ACA on top of preexisting
problems that it still doesnt solve. so you added more problems to fix.

the benefits I see is that while ppl are sorting out solutions
some people have gotten lifesaving help through parts of this ACA

but that doesn't mean that help couldn't have been set up a beter way without ACA
and the problems it introduced

that is like saying although the war in Iraq cost us billions to destroy so much in collateral
damage, the benefits are that it did liberate some people from bad regimes. more children and infants were dying from sanctions before the war. but that doesn't mean the war
was the best way to solve the problem. sure it saved some lives but at the expense of
people who suffered and didn't want that imposed on them.

I forgot another thing with integrity of govt
it also hurt the political integrity and relations with parties
such as contradicting the prochoice stance and defense against prolife legislation
arguing that freedom is more important than saving lives which can be saved another
way besides removing the choice of abortion

well this ACA says that it is more important to save lives helped by changes to insurance
rather that freedom to retain choice in health care by those expected to pay for the costs
so it is saying the opposite message
clearly there are other ways to pay for health care besides forcing people to buy insurance

so that contradiction shows unhealthy denial and projection and
rationalizing away the cognitive dissonance as if there isn't a conflict there

this is dangerous both mentally and politically for the integrity of public knowledge
and due process and representation in govt to have that intellectual dishonesty
and partisan bias going on without admitting what is happening

it is on both sides, if you look at how people rationalize away the cost of war in iraq
and the true cost to society and taxpayers. so there is some on both sides.
but two wrongs don't make a right. themutual denial and projection of blame
is sickening and prevent honest understanding, sharing of information, and representation.

so that is another problem on top of the ones we act like are someone else's fault.

 

[Katzndogz]

Putting government in charge of health care is never a good idea and has never worked.

 

[KevinWestern]

Putting government in charge of health care is never a good idea and has never worked.

If we lived in a fantasy world and the gov't was 100% dedicated to the best interests of its citizens, I would entertain the idea.

In theory, Healthcare as a gov't initiative would return many benefits. But in practice, humans are much too prone to corruption for this to actually work.

 

[Katzndogz]

Health care will become like it was in the old soviet union. It will be by party patronage.

 

[dblack]

ACA marks a tipping point in our transition from a liberal democracy to a authoritarian corporatist state. We are sacrificing the core foundations of liberty, equal protection and rule of law in favor of statist decree and interest group based privilege. Sadly, it's not socialism we're adopting - it's much worse. Progressives should be even more enraged by this development than libertarians, as it is they who are truly being hoodwinked; the chief beneficiaries of ACA are their nominal 'enemies', the corporations and industry lobbying groups who wrote the law.

 

[dblack]

That's what I thought.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

What's wrong with Obamacare? I am therefore assuming that you have not lived in the United States at all previously. What service has the government attempted to provide that is actually BETTER than a private company can provide that service? The answer to that question is a resounding NONE!

A second reason. Let's look at the roll out of this monstrosity. It has been a complete and utter cluster f**k from the outset. 620 MILLION DOLLARS spent on a website that DOES'NT WORK even slightly. Begrudgingly, Sebellius (SP?) advises that most of the people signed up so far, probably did so through their state run exchange websites. Having been in IT for quite some time and having worked on some very large projects for private companies, I want to know which companies got that windfall. Do I smell political cronyism? Probably. When Medicare Part D was rolled out by the Bush administration, did they have the same problems? No, not even close to the same type issues.

The uninsured. Democrats and the President admit that of the millions who were uninsured at the beginning of the roll out, millions will remain uninsured regardless of Obamacare. How fortunate that the middle class gets to pay for this mess and it doesn't even do what it's supposed to do which is insure everyone.

Taxes. Now thanks to Obamacare, if I sell my home, 3% has to go to the Feds to pay for Obamacare which doesn't work, doesn't insure the uninsured and is nothing more than a vehicle for political hacks to screw us yet again. And there is so much more.

Good job Democrats! You have done what you are so good at.

 

[auditor0007]

Time and time again, I hear Republican politicians saying how "Obamacare" (i.e., the Affordable Health Care Act) will "ruin the country." They hardly ever say HOW it will "ruin" our country.

So that's my question: precisely what is it about the AHCA that will ruin our country? I would like to hear from those who agree with the objecting Republicans. Tell us specifically what it is about the AHCA that is going to "ruin America."

This is so obvious George. All those poor people will now all start going to the doctor so the rest of us will never be able to get our fair share of healthcare. We'll be waiting 12 months just to see a doctor when we get sick. This is horrible George. And nobody will want to become a doctor because they will have to see too many patients. Who would want to see all those sick people anyway. We are in so much trouble George. Can't you see this? XXXX

 

[GWV5903]

Time and time again, I hear Republican politicians saying how "Obamacare" (i.e., the Affordable Health Care Act) will "ruin the country." They hardly ever say HOW it will "ruin" our country.

So that's my question: precisely what is it about the AHCA that will ruin our country? I would like to hear from those who agree with the objecting Republicans. Tell us specifically what it is about the AHCA that is going to "ruin America."

You need to ask?

This question is beyond your scope George...

The better question would be how did a Liberal Socialist Democrat like our current POTUS succumb to the Health Insurance Giants? I thought it was the mantra of the DNC to clear these hurdles for the disadvantage, not sell out the whole country to the EVIL Insurance company's???

The myths of what put us here are too long to list, much less try to explain...

I can remember not to long ago that health insurance was a zero cost benefit for most employees, I understand you have to be employed for this to have any meaning, but it is a novel idea...

But we are now squarely in the cross hairs of a Socialist Administration who has hood winked an entire significant segment of our population that will take decades to repair, we can call this the "Delusional Era" of our heritage...

The Rolling Stones have an appropriate song title, You Can't Always Get What You Want"...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S94ohyErSw]The Rolling Stones - You Can't Always Get What You Want [Official] - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Stephanie]

ACA marks a tipping point in our transition from a liberal democracy to a authoritarian corporatist state. We are sacrificing the core foundations of liberty, equal protection and rule of law in favor of statist decree and interest group based privilege. Sadly, it's not socialism we're adopting - it's much worse. Progressives should be even more enraged by this development than libertarians, as it is they who are truly being hoodwinked; the chief beneficiaries of ACA are their nominal 'enemies', the corporations and industry lobbying groups who wrote the law.

yep, this marks the total enslavement of the people in the country this to this Federal Government

freedoms was great while it lasted, now you can kiss good bye deciding if you want small soda cups or large ones...Your new master will decide what is best for you

nice job people, you sold yourselves and the rest of us out

Obama and his comrades in arms must be sitting back laughing their asses off

 

[martybegan]

Time and time again, I hear Republican politicians saying how "Obamacare" (i.e., the Affordable Health Care Act) will "ruin the country." They hardly ever say HOW it will "ruin" our country.

So that's my question: precisely what is it about the AHCA that will ruin our country? I would like to hear from those who agree with the objecting Republicans. Tell us specifically what it is about the AHCA that is going to "ruin America."

Obamacare is the first step towards single payer, government controlled healthcare. Government control of all things is fine for Europeans, because the European mentaility and model has always been power flows from the leadership (the soverign) and is granted to the people. People in the US are descendants of those who rejected that model, where power flows from the people and is granted to the government.

Government control of healthcare is about as unamerican as you can get.

 

[dblack]

ACA marks a tipping point in our transition from a liberal democracy to a authoritarian corporatist state. We are sacrificing the core foundations of liberty, equal protection and rule of law in favor of statist decree and interest group based privilege. Sadly, it's not socialism we're adopting - it's much worse. Progressives should be even more enraged by this development than libertarians, as it is they who are truly being hoodwinked; the chief beneficiaries of ACA are their nominal 'enemies', the corporations and industry lobbying groups who wrote the law.

yep, this marks the total enslavement of the people in the country this to this Federal Government

Well, 'enslavement' is hyperbole, and isn't very useful if you're trying to alert people to the real danger in what we're doing. Obviously we're not living in chains.

But these are serious, fundamental changes in the way we approach government and its relationship to society. The freedoms and constitutional guarantees we're dismissing aren't easily recovered. Equal protection and ensuring the rights of minorities are crucial to liberal democracy. We're going to wake up somewhere down the road and regret this.

 

[Stephanie]

ACA marks a tipping point in our transition from a liberal democracy to a authoritarian corporatist state. We are sacrificing the core foundations of liberty, equal protection and rule of law in favor of statist decree and interest group based privilege. Sadly, it's not socialism we're adopting - it's much worse. Progressives should be even more enraged by this development than libertarians, as it is they who are truly being hoodwinked; the chief beneficiaries of ACA are their nominal 'enemies', the corporations and industry lobbying groups who wrote the law.

yep, this marks the total enslavement of the people in the country this to this Federal Government

Well, 'enslavement' is hyperbole, and isn't very useful if you're trying to alert people to the real danger in what we're doing. Obviously we're not living in chains.

But these are serious, fundamental changes in the way we approach government and its relationship to society. The freedoms and constitutional guarantees we're dismissing aren't easily recovered. Equal protection and ensuring the rights of minorities are crucial to liberal democracy. We're going to wake up somewhere down the road and regret this.

We don't have have visible chains... when you have to buy something or be FINED by this Federal government and then you get to pay for everyone else who can't AFFORD to buy the insurance..

call it what you want