What Is It About "Obamacare" That Is Going To "Ruin America"?

[shikaki]

regardless of what the SC said, there is no mandate in the consitution for the feds to regulate and require healthcare unless it crosses state lines. If the states want to do it fine, but it is not for the feds to deal with.

Europeans may want the government to rule thier lives and tell them how to live, but America was founded on the idea the WE control the government, and more importantly we dont use the government to force others to live the way we want them to live.

There is no mandate for interstates either. Apparently most Americans want health care, I don't see this as government ruling my life.

 

[martybegan]

There is no mandate for interstates either. Apparently most Americans want health care, I don't see this as government ruling my life.

Go into a DMV, and then imagine thats the process for seeing a Doctor.

Have fun with that.

 

[shikaki]

Why should taking care of oneself via healthcare NOT cost a sizable portion of your income? There is a way for it to cost nothing, you take care of yourself. The reason it costs money is that it requires specialized people and equipment to basically extend a person's life far beyond what it used to be. The reason these things cost so much is the training required and the reliability of the equipment requred, plus the developmental costs of all these amazing drugs we now have.

I propose that if we even TRIED this here any money we save will either be returned in tax increases, or be lost due to decreases in service. Once the govenrment gets to control how much a doctor is paid, do you really think we will have people comitting so much of thier lives to schooling to become doctors, or speicalists? And if they do will they pariticpate in the low level plan or will all the best doctors be for the privlidged who can pay extra?

Simple reason is because everyone cannot afford to. Thats what this is all about. In order to take care of yourself the food you need to maintain good health should cost less than a meal at McDonalds. The reason health care costs so much currently is because of the combination of law suits, uninsured people, and bad health practises. The sooner people understand this the better off everyone will be.

Do you really want someone working on your health that is in it only for the money? We wont have a dearth of doctors just like it wont happen with teachers because there will always be people that give of themselves to help maintain health and educate.

That is ridiculous, considering the skill required for providing health care vs. the skill required to serve a Big Mac. Health care costs so much because of the skill required to provide it, and yes, the downside if something doesnt work out right.

And your whole "bad health practices" thing is another reason you dont want government control of your healthcare, because if they are the only option, they can decide what you like to do isnt cost effective and deny treatment. and who are you going to go to or use to stop them? You would be "paying" for it with your taxes, but they will decide they can deny you service. Dont like it? Go to some feckless burecrat to complain, they can probably wait you out.

I WANT my doctors to be in it for the money, considering how much schooling they have to go through. Teachers go through 1/4 of the training required for even a general practicioner, nevermind a specialist or surgeon. Of course we pay them less we either get less skillful people, or we lower the standards to justify lowering thier training.

From what I read, you are blowing this way out of proportion. We as a country are reasonably new, these countries in Europe that have been around much longer than us and have weathered a lot worse circumstances than us, see this as a positive thing. If there are growing pains, then we as a Democratic process will help to straighten it out. BTW: Doctors are not Gods, they are people too and they make their share of mistakes as well. Your awe over doctors may be a bit misplaced. Just like every profession, there are great ones and not so great. Hell I bet even McDonald's has great hamburger makers and lousy ones.

 

[shikaki]

Go into a DMV, and then imagine thats the process for seeing a Doctor.

Have fun with that.

DMV is run by the state..

 

[martybegan]

Simple reason is because everyone cannot afford to. Thats what this is all about. In order to take care of yourself the food you need to maintain good health should cost less than a meal at McDonalds. The reason health care costs so much currently is because of the combination of law suits, uninsured people, and bad health practises. The sooner people understand this the better off everyone will be.

Do you really want someone working on your health that is in it only for the money? We wont have a dearth of doctors just like it wont happen with teachers because there will always be people that give of themselves to help maintain health and educate.

That is ridiculous, considering the skill required for providing health care vs. the skill required to serve a Big Mac. Health care costs so much because of the skill required to provide it, and yes, the downside if something doesnt work out right.

And your whole "bad health practices" thing is another reason you dont want government control of your healthcare, because if they are the only option, they can decide what you like to do isnt cost effective and deny treatment. and who are you going to go to or use to stop them? You would be "paying" for it with your taxes, but they will decide they can deny you service. Dont like it? Go to some feckless burecrat to complain, they can probably wait you out.

I WANT my doctors to be in it for the money, considering how much schooling they have to go through. Teachers go through 1/4 of the training required for even a general practicioner, nevermind a specialist or surgeon. Of course we pay them less we either get less skillful people, or we lower the standards to justify lowering thier training.

From what I read, you are blowing this way out of proportion. We as a country are reasonable new, these countries in Europe that have been around much longer than us and have weathered a lot worse circumstances than us, see this as a positive thing. If there are growing pains, then we as a Democratic process will help to straighten it out. BTW: Doctors are not Gods, they are people too and they make their share of mistakes as well. Your awe over doctors may be a bit misplaced. Just like every profession, there are great ones and not so great. Hell I bet even McDonald's has great hamburger makers and lousy ones.

My ancestors LEFT europe to get away from this sort of crap, be it government, or the local lord, or the local noble. THEY can keep it. Here we like our freedoms, and a giant threat to freedom is government control of who gets healthcare, and how it is dispensed.

 

[martybegan]

DMV is run by the state..

Its a comparion, one you appear to be missing.

 

[shikaki]

Its a comparion, one you appear to be missing.

I am, where is the comparison between state and federal government jurisdiction and authority?

 

[earlycuyler]

Time and time again, I hear Republican politicians saying how "Obamacare" (i.e., the Affordable Health Care Act) will "ruin the country." They hardly ever say HOW it will "ruin" our country.

So that's my question: precisely what is it about the AHCA that will ruin our country? I would like to hear from those who agree with the objecting Republicans. Tell us specifically what it is about the AHCA that is going to "ruin America."

Explore these options:
1. Health Insurance Through Work You may be eligible for coverage through work at your job or your spouse's.
2. Health Insurance Plans for Individuals & Families If you do not have job-based or other coverage, you may want to buy a policy from a private insurer.
3. Medicaid Medicaid provides coverage for low income children, families, the elderly, and people with disabilities. Pregnant women may qualify with higher incomes.
4. Finding Care You Can Afford There may be local facilities that provide free or reduced-cost care, whether you're insured or not. What you pay depends on your income.

Find Insurance Options | Finder.Healthcare.gov

I work for my self so number one no good. I use private insurance now for my family and I, but it will be to expensive and I will lose it in 2014. And then their is Medicaid. I make to much money for that, so my options are to lie, or work less. So did it ruin America ? Don't know, but it sure has not made life any more easy for this American.

 

[martybegan]

I am, where is the comparison between state and federal government jurisdiction and authority?

its not a question of authority, its a question of the expected level of service.

Hence DMV is a good example of a government provided service to large amounts of people. Government run healthcare would probably be similar. Crappy service and no redress other than to the very government running things.

 

[shikaki]

its not a question of authority, its a question of the expected level of service.

Hence DMV is a good example of a government provided service to large amounts of people. Government run healthcare would probably be similar. Crappy service and no redress other than to the very government running things.

The military seems to function quiet well. The US Mail seems to function quiet well. Interstates seem to work as designed. None are perfect, but nothing is. I can't guess about the future, but I'm cautiously optimistic about ACA.

 

[martybegan]

The military seems to function quiet well. The US Mail seems to function quiet well. Interstates seem to work as designed. None are perfect, but nothing is. I can't guess about the future, but I'm cautiously optimistic about ACA.

Do you have to wait to be personally served by the military or the interstates, or to get your mail? Those things happen automatically, and the work done on them does not require personal interaction.

Going to the DMV requires you to interact with a government employee, which is what doctors will be under governmental healthcare.

 

[G.T.]

its not a question of authority, its a question of the expected level of service.

Hence DMV is a good example of a government provided service to large amounts of people. Government run healthcare would probably be similar. Crappy service and no redress other than to the very government running things.

the government doesn't service you.

your insurance company and doctors do.

 

[martybegan]

the government doesn't service you.

your insurance company and doctors do.

Right now, but the discussion is on the inveitable "single payer" or governmental health care we all know is the next step.

 

[shikaki]

Do you have to wait to be personally served by the military or the interstates, or to get your mail? Those things happen automatically, and the work done on them does not require personal interaction.

Going to the DMV requires you to interact with a government employee, which is what doctors will be under governmental healthcare.

I see you are happy with the idea that it will be a horrible process, so I will refrain from trying to convince you of a more positive, healthy experience. Like I said, no one knows how this will play out, but I choose to see it as a positive step towards filling a necessary gap that currently allows our fellow Americans to suffer.

 

[Asclepias]

I see you are happy with the idea that it will be a horrible process, so I will refrain from trying to convince you of a more positive experience. Like I said, no one knows how this will play out, but I choose to see it as a positive step towards filling a necessary gap that currently allows our fellow Americans to suffer.

Most people don't understand the idea of improving processes. They want instant gratification and the ability to read crystal balls. For some reason people think that if this doesn't work immediately and without any hitches we cannot change it to make it better. Those are the type of people you dont want even want walking your dog to the dog park because a cat may run out in front of the dog and they wont know what to do since those type of things freeze their brains.

 

[martybegan]

I see you are happy with the idea that it will be a horrible process, so I will refrain from trying to convince you of a more positive, healthy experience. Like I said, no one knows how this will play out, but I choose to see it as a positive step towards filling a necessary gap that currently allows our fellow Americans to suffer.

How about trying it at a State level, and then seeing if you can keep the people who will actually be paying for it from moving away?

Trying at a national level first is because the people supporting it know it will be crap, it will be expensive, and they have to do it nationally so people who want to remain in the US have to suck it up and take it.

If liberal policies are so awesome, why does everyone have to be forced to participate and pay for it?

 

[martybegan]

Most people don't understand the idea of improving processes. They want instant gratification and the ability to read crystal balls. For some reason people think that if this doesn't work immediately and without any hitches we cannot change it to make it better. Those are the type of people you dont want even want walking your dog to the dog park because a cat may run out in front of the dog and they wont know what to do since those type of things freeze their brains.

You are over-analysing this. Some people don't want government running every single aspect of thier lives. Some people want to be left the CHOICE whether to help people or to sign up for certain things. Some people dont want to be forced by government fiat to accept the will of the masses, and this country was founded on the priniciple that PEOPLE have freedom, government is limited, and at worst when it is coercive it is as local as possible.

 

[dblack]

How about trying it at a State level, and then seeing if you can keep the people who will actually be paying for it from moving away?

Trying at a national level first is because the people supporting it know it will be crap, it will be expensive, and they have to do it nationally so people who want to remain in the US have to suck it up and take it.

If liberal policies are so awesome, why does everyone have to be forced to participate and pay for it?

It was also done at the federal level because the insurance lobby didn't want to go through the same laborious process they went through with mandatory auto insurance - lobbying each state separately. Going for the jugular and hitting us at the federal level was far more cost effective.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

For anyone who is interested, I've added another factual, non-partisan link in my sig.

These are also informative -
ObamaCare In Plain English: What It Means For You -
Obamacare Isn't Communism, And 13 Other Questions Answered

 

[Asclepias]

You are over-analysing this. Some people don't want government running every single aspect of thier lives. Some people want to be left the CHOICE whether to help people or to sign up for certain things. Some people dont want to be forced by government fiat to accept the will of the masses, and this country was founded on the priniciple that PEOPLE have freedom, government is limited, and at worst when it is coercive it is as local as possible.

I disagree. The people saying this is a bad thing are over analyzing it. This is not going to run every aspect of your life. You do have a choice. You can get insurance or you can pay the penalty. people are force to accept the will of the masses everyday. With that freedom comes responsibilities for people less fortunate. The government is there to provide for the common good. This is one of the few times I have really seen that in action recently.