What is a Red Flag Law?

[Wry Catcher]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

Colorado's Red Flag law goes into effect on 1 Jan 2020. I dislike the law because it is to hazy and broad in the discretion the judge has, among other issues.

Another negative of this type of law is that those planning mass shooter crimes will very possibly become more secretive during their planning.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

Good question. BTW, do you know if the protections of civil liberties included in the LPS Act exist in other state's "red flag" statutes?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

Good question. BTW, do you know if the protections of civil liberties included in the LPS Act exist in other state's "red flag" statutes?

I only know that they are the same in Texas. I can't speak for other states.

.

 

[Oddball]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

It's denial of rights without due process....Totally fucked up.

Pray that "libertarian" doesn't get deemed a "mental disorder" by some leftbat despot.

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

Good question. BTW, do you know if the protections of civil liberties included in the LPS Act exist in other state's "red flag" statutes?

Yes in Colorado. Here the 72 hour hold is called an M-1 hold. These type of temporary holds are band aids.

 

[CowboyTed]

Common in most 1st world countries...

What do you think Police can do if met with a woman suffering from severe dementia? What could police do legally?
Arrest her for what? Is jail the best place for them?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

It's denial of rights without due process....Totally fucked up.

Pray that "libertarian" doesn't get deemed a "mental disorder" by some leftbat despot.

It's only a limited amount of time and requires quite a few safeguards. That type of law is really hard to abuse because of the limited time.

That is more about the safety of the detained than it is of anyone else. Someone who is temporarily not in their right mind would likely want that protection.

Now, repeated 72-hour detentions of the same person without findings could be abuse. That would justify civil litigation and compensation.

.

 

[Oddball]

It's only a limited amount of time and requires quite a few safeguards. That type of law is really hard to abuse because of the limited time.

That is more about the safety of the detained than it is of anyone else. Someone who is temporarily not in their right mind would likely want that protection.

Now, repeated 72-hour detentions of the same person without findings could be abuse. That would justify civil litigation and compensation.

.

Many of the same things were said about the idiotic Patriot Act and FISA star chamber....How'd that shake out?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

It's denial of rights without due process....Totally fucked up.

Pray that "libertarian" doesn't get deemed a "mental disorder" by some leftbat despot.

Post some evidence that Red Flag Laws are all without due process?

The LPS Act in CA has safeguards to protect those identified as a danger to others or themselves.

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

Common in most 1st world countries...

What do you think Police can do if met with a woman suffering from severe dementia? What could police do legally?
Arrest her for what? Is jail the best place for them?

I doubt she'd be arrested, but she may well be detained and transported to a hospital for the ER doctors to make a call whether an M-1 hold would be required. What they should do is try to get her home, releasing her to a family member.

Jails in America have become, unfortunately, America's mental health holding facilities. Treatment is negligible there. I can't count the number of times inmates with mental health issues required myself and other officer to enter cells smeared in urine and feces to gain physical control over a psych inmate so that he/she could be given med injections prescribed by the psychiatrist.

That's about all the real treatment they get.

 

[Oddball]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

It's denial of rights without due process....Totally fucked up.

Pray that "libertarian" doesn't get deemed a "mental disorder" by some leftbat despot.

Post some evidence that Red Flag Laws are all without due process?

The LPS Act in CA has safeguards to protect those identified as a danger to others or themselves.

Due process, as in being apprised of what criminal act you committed to have your rights taken away, facing your accuser(s), and having the case proven before a jury.

Your "safeguards" are meaningless.

 

[percysunshine]

I think a red flag law is one of those commie thingies.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

It's only a limited amount of time and requires quite a few safeguards. That type of law is really hard to abuse because of the limited time.

That is more about the safety of the detained than it is of anyone else. Someone who is temporarily not in their right mind would likely want that protection.

Now, repeated 72-hour detentions of the same person without findings could be abuse. That would justify civil litigation and compensation.

.

Many of the same things were said about the idiotic Patriot Act and FISA star chamber....How'd that shake out?

You're not wrong.

The question is whether we, the people, have the authority to detain (for a 72-hour period) someone who appears to be temporarily out of their wits?

I go back and forth on it.



.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

It's denial of rights without due process....Totally fucked up.

Pray that "libertarian" doesn't get deemed a "mental disorder" by some leftbat despot.

Post some evidence that Red Flag Laws are all without due process?

The LPS Act in CA has safeguards to protect those identified as a danger to others or themselves.

Due process, as in being apprised of what criminal act you committed to have your rights taken away, facing your accuser(s), and having the case proven before a jury.

Your "safeguards" are meaningless.

You are viewing this through the lens of criminal law rather than the appropriate lens of probate/guardianship law. There is a huge difference.

.

 

[Defiant1]

It's only a limited amount of time and requires quite a few safeguards. That type of law is really hard to abuse because of the limited time.

That is more about the safety of the detained than it is of anyone else. Someone who is temporarily not in their right mind would likely want that protection.

Now, repeated 72-hour detentions of the same person without findings could be abuse. That would justify civil litigation and compensation.

.

Many of the same things were said about the idiotic Patriot Act and FISA star chamber....How'd that shake out?

You're not wrong.

The question is whether we, the people, have the authority to detain (for a 72-hour period) someone who appears to be temporarily out of their wits?

I go back and forth on it.



.

That's why I talk to only a few people and I don't go to doctors.

 

[Oddball]

Does one exist, promulgated by the Congress or any State Legislature and signed by the Executive?

In CA the Welfare and Institutions code covers situations where a person may be a danger to themselves or others. It allows LE to detain a person who raises a "red flag" and bring them to a secure psychiatric hospital, and be held for 72 hours for observation (5150 W&I).

The detainee can be released anytime by the psychiatrist, but must be released at the end of 72 hours unless s/he is determined to need further evaluation and/or treatment. The patient then can be held for two weeks (5250 W&I), and if the medical doctor decides more treatment is needed they must petition the court under the LPS Act, see details in the link below:

Lanterman–Petris–Short Act - Wikipedia.

Yeah, most states already have laws in place. And, I, a hardcore libertarian, believe that such laws are proper.

But, because we already have all these laws in place, why are we doing this national "red flag" thing?

.

It's denial of rights without due process....Totally fucked up.

Pray that "libertarian" doesn't get deemed a "mental disorder" by some leftbat despot.

Post some evidence that Red Flag Laws are all without due process?

The LPS Act in CA has safeguards to protect those identified as a danger to others or themselves.

Due process, as in being apprised of what criminal act you committed to have your rights taken away, facing your accuser(s), and having the case proven before a jury.

Your "safeguards" are meaningless.

You are viewing this through the lens of criminal law rather than the appropriate lens of probate/guardianship law. There is a huge difference.

.

I'm looking at this through the lens of statism vs. freedom....If you think the statist gun grabbers will stop here, you're nuts.

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

Define what you mean by due process? Colorado's law allows a family member, household resident, cop and doctor (there may be others as well) to petition the court to take firearms away - done without the subject's knowledge or presence in court to counter argue the initial petition. If the judge grants a temporary petition, law enforcement will get a warrant to enter the subject's residence to seize their firearms. This is the point where the subject becomes knowledgeable that the petition was present to the court and granted. The court then has, I believe, 14 days to schedule a hearing where the subject has to prove he/she is no danger to try and get the temporary petition dismissed. Why should the subject have to prove his/her "innocence"?

If the judge then sides with the petitioner(s), the courts make the order enforceable for 365 days. It can be renewed as well.

Is this due process in your thinking?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Common in most 1st world countries...

What do you think Police can do if met with a woman suffering from severe dementia? What could police do legally?
Arrest her for what? Is jail the best place for them?

I doubt she'd be arrested, but she may well be detained and transported to a hospital for the ER doctors to make a call whether an M-1 hold would be required. What they should do is try to get her home, releasing her to a family member.

Jails in America have become, unfortunately, America's mental health holding facilities. Treatment is negligible there. I can't count the number of times inmates with mental health issues required myself and other officer to enter cells smeared in urine and feces to gain physical control over a psych inmate so that he/she could be given med injections prescribed by the psychiatrist.

That's about all the real treatment they get.

You obviously worked in an institution, as did I for a few years. We employed four Social Workers to evaluate inmates detained, before trial, and to provide counseling to those placed on probation and serving time in our county jail.

Schizophrenia is common among many committed for short terms for misdemeanor convictions, and mostly represented by overworked public defenders who no longer represented their client after their conviction (that has recently changed, since my retirement).

Thus the Social Workers and the assigned Probation Officer worked together to find adult group homes for those with no family or no family member who they have not alienated. When a placement was found a removal order was requested and probation was modified giving credit for time served in the placement.