What is a conservative?

[Mac1958]

.

Wait, let me add one:

Invade, destroy and occupy countries that annoy you (as long as they can't fight back). This is our planet and everyone must do things our way. Fill American body bags, destroy American military lives and families, waste trillions. Then tell us how you support the troops.

No charge for that one.

.

That does explain Libya, doesn't it.

By the way, thanks for caring enough about the question to provide a well reasoned and thoughtful answer.

I disagreed with Obama's approach to Libya. Since I have no sheep-like allegiance to either ridiculous party, I'm more than happy to criticize Obama when I disagree with him, which is often. If it turns out that we're attempting some kind of nation-building in Libya (especially if our troops in are in any kind of danger whatsoever - I actually DO care about them), no one will be louder in disagreement than me.

Also, if the phrases "Invade, destroy and occupy countries that annoy you (as long as they can't fight back). This is our planet and everyone must do things our way. Fill American body bags, destroy American military lives and families, waste trillions. Then tell us how you support the troops" mean nothing to you, if that's all okay with you, then we'll just have to disagree. There's plenty in there that I would think most people would consider a negative.

To your point, while I disagreed with Obama's sticking our nose into Libya's business, I don't recall us invading, occupying and blowing the crap out of that country. Nor do I remember seeing American body bags or multi-hundred billion dollar price tags as a result of Obama's actions. The next time I'm in an airport - which will actually be in about 4 hours - and I see a soldier with artificial legs being pushed in his wheelchair down the corridor by his young son, I won't be wondering if that happened in Libya.

Since you appear to be equating Libya with Iraq & Afghanistan, perhaps you can provide contrary evidence. My guess is that you can't.

.

 

[editec]

What is a conservative?

Not what is was 40 years ago, that's for damned sure.

 

[Sarah G]

I'm confused as to what conservative is? Its seems to me that it is almost like a Rorschach test. If you are a "conservative" let me know what makes a politician conservative. If you are not a "conservative" feel free to chime in, but keep the hate to a minimum please.

It's the accounting faction of the Republican party that barely exists anymore.

 

[dblack]

Barry Goldwater wasn't a conservative?
And I didnt know there was a right to sodomy. Learn something new every day.

Do you?

Backing away from the practical political definitions of conservative and liberal as attached to today's major parties, and looking beyond specific policy or ideological concerns, there are traits that distinguish the two mindsets.

Conservatives (outside of intellectuals like Goldwater and Buckley) generally don't 'learn something new everyday'. In fact, they tend to treat that attitude with a good deal of caution - even derision and scorn. As a personality style a conservative is defined as much by a resistance to change as liberals are defined by an eagerness to try something new. That's why "Hope and Change" is inspiring to liberals, but sounds silly and potentially dangerous to conservatives.

That said, neither major party today is predominantly liberal or conservative. They are mostly authoritarian and have evolved the traits that make political parties strong and persistent - primarily those that enhance and secure their power. In this they are essentially the same. They simply target different demographics and use different sales pitches. When you look at how they govern, Democrats spend quite a lot of time 'conserving' the status quo, and Republicans are quite comfortable with radical change when it expands their power and influence.

 

[uscitizen]

.

Wait, let me add one:

Invade, destroy and occupy countries that annoy you (as long as they can't fight back). This is our planet and everyone must do things our way. Fill American body bags, destroy American military lives and families, waste trillions. Then tell us how you support the troops.

No charge for that one.

.

So, Obama is a Conservative?

Yep about the same level of conservatism as his predecessor.

 

[uscitizen]

I'm confused as to what conservative is? Its seems to me that it is almost like a Rorschach test. If you are a "conservative" let me know what makes a politician conservative. If you are not a "conservative" feel free to chime in, but keep the hate to a minimum please.

The issue isn’t so much what is a conservative, but when.

During much of the 20th Century, until the early 70s, conservatives were reasonable, rational people. Conservatives then didn’t believe in the ‘small government’ nonsense they do today, they believed in comprehensive limited government, both with regard to regulation and individual liberty.

These conservatives were also more pragmatic, were less subject to irrational blind dogma, and were more interested in doing what was best for the Nation, rather than pursue a subjective partisan agenda.

That all changed by the late 70s with the advent of political religious fundamentalism and social conservatism.

T.

Barry Goldwater wasn't a conservative?
And I didnt know there was a right to sodomy. Learn something new every day.

Sodomy as in oral sex?
No wonder you are such a grouch.

 

[mudwhistle]

A text-book conservative is someone who resists change.

Over time the meaning of conservative has morphed to someone who believes in smaller government, but I think it's mostly someone who believes in the original intent of the framers of the constitution.

Also to me a conservative is someone who believes less government means less entitlements. Stand on your own feet when you can, not taking handouts from the government because it's available. It's a mindset that believes the government doesn't know best. The exact opposite of progressives. More freedom instead of more dependency.

All of the superfluous BS about hating women or hating blacks or gays is simply an invention of the left. We were minding our own business and all of the sudden the left starts making accusations because they want more dependency, more control, less freedom. They have to control us in order for us to do what they want us.....which is basically willingly give them our money. They not only want our money but they want us to like it. Never complain about it.

Why does the left need so much money?

Buying votes is expensive.

 

[uscitizen]

I'm confused as to what conservative is? Its seems to me that it is almost like a Rorschach test. If you are a "conservative" let me know what makes a politician conservative. If you are not a "conservative" feel free to chime in, but keep the hate to a minimum please.

When it comes down to election time a conservative is a republican.
Nothing more.

 

[uscitizen]

A text-book conservative is someone who resists change.

Over time the meaning of conservative has morphed to someone who believes in smaller government, but I think it's mostly someone who believes in the original intent of the framers of the constitution.

Also to me a conservative is someone who believes less government means less entitlements. Stand on your own feet when you can, not taking handouts from the government because it's available. It's a mindset that believes the government doesn't know best. The exact opposite of progressives. More freedom instead of more dependency.

All of the superfluous BS about hating women or hating blacks or gays is simply an invention of the left. We were minding our own business and all of the sudden the left starts making accusations because they want more dependency, more control, less freedom. They have to control us in order for us to do what they want us.....which is basically willingly give them our money. They not only want our money but they want us to like it. Never complain about it.

Why does the left need so much money?

Buying votes is expensive.

And with Reagan conservatives became were much supporters of the US being a police force for the world.

 

[zeke]

I

can't think of any conservatives in government today. I can think of a lot of UnConservatives, though.

An UnConservative says entitlement programs need to either be eliminated or greatly reduced, but then scares the bejeesus out of the over 50 crowd by telling them Obama is cutting Medicare.

An UnConservative says entitlement programs need to either be eliminated or greately reduced, but then votes in a massive Medicare Part D, with no way to pay for it built into the legislation. The same UnConservative will block legislation by Democrats that does not pay for itself.

An UnConservative will cheer the Supreme Court's wisdom and defense of the Constitution when the Court strikes down an unconstitional state law against guns, but will bitch about the same Supreme Court when it strikes down another unconsitutional state law, stomping his feet about "state's rights" and the 10th Amendment and moaning about "activist judges".

An UnConservative will pay lip service about how precious the Constitution is, but will not entertain any thought of providing equal protection under the law to gays.

An UnConservative will pay lip service about how precious the Constitution is but will defend our government spying on us without a warrant.

An UnConservative will perform amazing mental twists to convince themselves that waterboarding is not torture. This, more than any other behavior, sickened me toward the GOP. This kind of belief system requires a full-on deliberate effort to self-delude. This is a conscious decision to keep lying to oneself until one believes the lie.

An UnConservative will pay lip service about how precious the Constitution is but will defend a leader who has the right party membership stepping all over that document. But as soon as a leader who has the wrong party membership does the same thing, he is a devil.

An UnConservative will ignore evidence of Voter ID disenfranchising voters, believing we need to put another impediment to the excercising of our Constitutional rights that is completely unnecessary, and be unable to name any case of voter fraud in our nation's entire existence that could only have been prevented or caught by anything other than Voter ID.

An UnConservative will do NOTHING to dissuade birthers and other such wackadoos because there is no percentage in educating the ignorant if they are going to vote GOP. Thus, the UnConservative demonstrates that power is more important than principles or honesty or truth.


The hypocrisy, stupidty, willful ignorance, and sheer chickenhawk bloodlust of the UnConservatives who have taken over the GOP has sickened me to the point where I just could not vote any more. And since I stopped voting, my hopes that the party will ever come to its senses have become less and less. I now doubt I will ever feel compelled to vote again.

The UnConservatives deserve Obama as our President. By running off people like me, the UnConservatives elected him, and will probably re-elect him.
__________________
If you are in a same-sex marriage in one of the states where same-sex marriage is allowed (Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and D.C.), or if you are in a domestic partnership or civil union in any of the states that offer those relationship options, none of the benefits of marriage under federal law will apply to you, because the federal government does not recognize these same-sex relationships. For example, you may not file joint federal income tax returns with your partner, even if your state allows you to file taxes jointly. And other federal benefits, such as Social Security death benefits and COBRA continuation insurance coverage, may not apply.

g5000. Well said IMO.

 

[mudwhistle]

The issue isn’t so much what is a conservative, but when.

During much of the 20th Century, until the early 70s, conservatives were reasonable, rational people. Conservatives then didn’t believe in the ‘small government’ nonsense they do today, they believed in comprehensive limited government, both with regard to regulation and individual liberty.

These conservatives were also more pragmatic, were less subject to irrational blind dogma, and were more interested in doing what was best for the Nation, rather than pursue a subjective partisan agenda.

That all changed by the late 70s with the advent of political religious fundamentalism and social conservatism.

T.

Barry Goldwater wasn't a conservative?
And I didnt know there was a right to sodomy. Learn something new every day.

Sodomy as in oral sex?
No wonder you are such a grouch.

Isn't Sodomy anal sex?

 

[mudwhistle]

I'm confused as to what conservative is? Its seems to me that it is almost like a Rorschach test. If you are a "conservative" let me know what makes a politician conservative. If you are not a "conservative" feel free to chime in, but keep the hate to a minimum please.

When it comes down to election time a conservative is a republican.
Nothing more.

So the meaning changes because you need to marginalize people in order to win.

 

[mudwhistle]

A text-book conservative is someone who resists change.

Over time the meaning of conservative has morphed to someone who believes in smaller government, but I think it's mostly someone who believes in the original intent of the framers of the constitution.

Also to me a conservative is someone who believes less government means less entitlements. Stand on your own feet when you can, not taking handouts from the government because it's available. It's a mindset that believes the government doesn't know best. The exact opposite of progressives. More freedom instead of more dependency.

All of the superfluous BS about hating women or hating blacks or gays is simply an invention of the left. We were minding our own business and all of the sudden the left starts making accusations because they want more dependency, more control, less freedom. They have to control us in order for us to do what they want us.....which is basically willingly give them our money. They not only want our money but they want us to like it. Never complain about it.

Why does the left need so much money?

Buying votes is expensive.

And with Reagan conservatives became were much supporters of the US being a police force for the world.

So you like what Obama did in Libya or what?

 

[uscitizen]

Barry Goldwater wasn't a conservative?
And I didnt know there was a right to sodomy. Learn something new every day.

Sodomy as in oral sex?
No wonder you are such a grouch.

Isn't Sodomy anal sex?

oral sex is sodomy as well.

Any "non natural" male/female sex is sodomy.
In some religions any non "missionary" style sex is sodomy.
that is why they call it missionary style

 

[uscitizen]

I'm confused as to what conservative is? Its seems to me that it is almost like a Rorschach test. If you are a "conservative" let me know what makes a politician conservative. If you are not a "conservative" feel free to chime in, but keep the hate to a minimum please.

When it comes down to election time a conservative is a republican.
Nothing more.

So the meaning changes because you need to marginalize people in order to win.

Isn't that exactly what is happening with the republican candidate and those voting for them?

 

[uscitizen]

A text-book conservative is someone who resists change.

Over time the meaning of conservative has morphed to someone who believes in smaller government, but I think it's mostly someone who believes in the original intent of the framers of the constitution.

Also to me a conservative is someone who believes less government means less entitlements. Stand on your own feet when you can, not taking handouts from the government because it's available. It's a mindset that believes the government doesn't know best. The exact opposite of progressives. More freedom instead of more dependency.

All of the superfluous BS about hating women or hating blacks or gays is simply an invention of the left. We were minding our own business and all of the sudden the left starts making accusations because they want more dependency, more control, less freedom. They have to control us in order for us to do what they want us.....which is basically willingly give them our money. They not only want our money but they want us to like it. Never complain about it.

Why does the left need so much money?

Buying votes is expensive.

And with Reagan conservatives became were much supporters of the US being a police force for the world.

So you like what Obama did in Libya or what?

Nope did not like it one bit. If you search back you will not find me supporting that action in any way. And I said as much in my posts.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sodomy as in oral sex?
No wonder you are such a grouch.

Isn't Sodomy anal sex?

oral sex is sodomy as well.

Any "non natural" male/female sex is sodomy.
In some religions any non "missionary" style sex is sodomy.
that is why they call it missionary style

Oral sex is not sodomy. That is not what the Texas statute outlawed.
Missionary position is not called that because "some religions" (name one) outlaw anything else. It is called that because natives in other countries saw missionaries practicing it.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Isn't Sodomy anal sex?

oral sex is sodomy as well.

Any "non natural" male/female sex is sodomy.
In some religions any non "missionary" style sex is sodomy.
that is why they call it missionary style

Oral sex is not sodomy. That is not what the Texas statute outlawed.
Missionary position is not called that because "some religions" (name one) outlaw anything else. It is called that because natives in other countries saw missionaries practicing it.

sod·om·y   [sod-uh-mee]
noun
1.
anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2.
copulation with a member of the same sex.
3.
bestiality (def. 4).

 

[dblack]

So can we agree that a 'conservative' is someone who inspires debate over the legal definition of sodomy?

 

[The Rabbi]

oral sex is sodomy as well.

Any "non natural" male/female sex is sodomy.
In some religions any non "missionary" style sex is sodomy.
that is why they call it missionary style

Oral sex is not sodomy. That is not what the Texas statute outlawed.
Missionary position is not called that because "some religions" (name one) outlaw anything else. It is called that because natives in other countries saw missionaries practicing it.

sod·om·y   [sod-uh-mee]
noun
1.
anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2.
copulation with a member of the same sex.
3.
bestiality (def. 4).

OK, apparently teh Texas statute prohibited anal and oral sex between members of the same sex.