Debate Now What does MAGA mean ? Specifically ?

[Foxfyre]

I call MAGA a sales pitch. Just like I call Build-Back-Better a sales pitch.

If MAGA means Make American Great Again, it means we were once great.

Can somewhat tell me when that was, what made us "great" and when you'll know we've gotten back to that point ?

I contend that people (because I've been cornering them on this topic) don't know what they mean when they say MAGA.

Nobody I've talked to can give me specifics.

One person I talked to said:

Well, in 1960, we didn't have the illegal problem we have now. So I asked what the problem is now (in terms of numbers). Didn't have it. How about 1960...didn't have it. I decided to forego the easy follow up question and move on.

So I am going to say, I think America is great now. We have A LOT of issues, for sure. But I still love living here and am grateful for my freedoms and liberties.

I see MAGA as a sales pitch and an implication that we've lost something (but nobody can tell me what). And I am not so sure American was any greater then than it is today.

Let me know what you think.

Rule #1: Provide specifics.

Rule #2: If you want to argue generalities, you have to be very clear on what they are and the basis for them.

Rule #3: No commentary on the "other side"

We once had an America where the vast majority shared basic values of family, faith, personal integrity, responsibility, accountability, honor. A handshake was as good as a signed contract in most matters, and most accidents and disagreements were settled amicably without lawyers or courts getting involved.

We had the best education system in the world.
We had the best healthcare system in the world.
We had the best economy in the world.
We had the most innovative and creative initiatives in the world.
Democrats and Republicans worked together to provide mostly good government that promoted and accomplished the most free, most powerful, most benevolent, most secure nation in the world allowing for the most liberty, prosperity, choices, options and opportunity ever known on Planet Earth.

That what MAGA stands for.

 

[Coyote]

America is not great without:

-a truly blind justice system
-equal application of the law
-a secure border
-a truly free and independent press
-making foreign entities fear and respect us

Restore those things and we will be great again. Without them we are
'America the Pretty Good'.

But we have never had most of those things, how can you restore what we never were? That is why MAGA is aptly termed a sales pitch (most political slogans are). It is telling “consumers” we lost something and only they, MAGA, can restore it…but no one seems to realize it was something we never had.

 

[IM2]

Trump was laughed at in the beginning but not after people saw him make America great again....
Yep your tranny loving Kenyan is transforming America through Biden and we will not give him a fourth term to completely kills us off....

Structure Debate Rules violation deleted. White 6

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

I'll probably get lambasted for saying this, but in Latin, the word "maga" means witch or sorceress.

And it is also the highest level in the hierarchy of the church of satan. If you don't believe me, take a look, just scroll halfway down this page:

Hierarchy in the Church of Satan - Church of Satan

Hierarchy in the Church of Satan Anton LaVey formulated a system of degrees during the early years of the Church of Satan, as such was a general practice in many prior social and esoteric organizations. However, the criteria for elevation in our Church were based not on mysticism or occultism...

www.churchofsatan.com

I find it interesting that it was chosen as a slogan, since people are always chanting it without realizing what they're chanting in another language.

Ok, don't attack the messenger please. I'm not against making America great again, I just find stuff like this interesting. So sue me.

In Japanese it means curve or bent.
In Hebrew it means contact
In English it is an acronym for Make America Great Again

That is all.

 

[IM2]

We once had an America where the vast majority shared basic values of family, faith, personal integrity, responsibility, accountability, honor. A handshake was as good as a signed contract in most matters, and most accidents and disagreements were settled amicably without lawyers or courts getting involved.

We had the best education system in the world.
We had the best healthcare system in the world.
We had the best economy in the world.
We had the most innovative and creative initiatives in the world.
Democrats and Republicans worked together to provide mostly good government that promoted and accomplished the most free, most powerful, most benevolent, most secure nation in the world allowing for the most liberty, prosperity, choices, options and opportunity ever known on Planet Earth.

That what MAGA stands for.

That America never existed.

 

[HikerGuy83]

MAGA means Law and Order....

This is a debate zone. You don't get to just make a claim.

Back it up please.

Make the connection.

 

[HikerGuy83]

But we have never had most of those things, how can you restore what we never were? That is why MAGA is aptly termed a sales pitch (most political slogans are). It is telling “consumers” we lost something and only they MAGA restore it…but but no one seems to realize it was something we never had.

O.K.

So let's be clear about what we mean.

Someone says we had a secure border....just what does that mean. How do you know the border is secure ?

You are saying, we never had that (or maybe you were referencing something else.....let me know). But if you are saying that, how did you make that determination.

It goes back to...."AGAIN". So we are going to duplicate something. What ???

How do we know we duplicated it.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Obama is calling the shots and that is why we and the world are back in the place Obama had us all in before....

Examples please. Verified.

I don't like Obama, but this is about debate. And this kind of statement just clutters the discussion.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

America is not great without:

-a truly blind justice system
-equal application of the law
-a secure border
-a truly free and independent press
-making foreign entities fear and respect us

Restore those things and we will be great again. Without them we are
'America the Pretty Good'.

Structure Debate Rules violation deleted. White 6

 

[HikerGuy83]

Wrong.

IM2 and Rambunctious

Please got off the thread. You both suck at this.

This is the clean debate zone which means you back up your claims and statements with examples and facts.

"Wrong" isn't an argument. It's an intellectually lazy way of acting like a petulant child.

Please get off the thread.

 

[Anathema]

The MAGA ideology is linked pretty much with the traditional view of the American political system prior to the American Civil War. That is a Strong State - Weak Federal Government system. It’s about local control and individual choices. It’s about a strong America-first economy and America-centric foreign policy.

 

[Foxfyre]

That America never existed.

It not only existed but I grew up in it.

 

[IM2]

O.K.

So let's be clear about what we mean.

Someone says we had a secure border....just what does that mean. How do you know the border is secure ?

You are saying, we never had that (or maybe you were referencing something else.....let me know). But if you are saying that, how did you make that determination.

It goes back to...."AGAIN". So we are going to duplicate something. What ???

How do we know we duplicated it.

Let's be very clear, this nation has never had freedom and equality for all people. The borders have never been secure. And the southern border was created by an illegal war created by James Polk. The northern border is a result of another illegal British and French occupation that created Canada. When the constitution was created America had slavery, the Law of Coverture that bascally enslaved women, and white men who didn't own property could not vote. At no time in American history has the working class had equality.

We hear the slogan, “Make America Great Again." Millions of working-class people have purchased red baseball caps and proudly sport them on their heads. M.A.G.A refers to a return to days right-wingers believe America grew and prospered based on hard work and merit. The leader of this movement was a man born in 1946. This is important because most people in national leadership today were born shortly after World War Two and grew up in the prosperous aftermath. They were children while their parents availed themselves of the massive government assistance primarily given to whites. They grew up in racially segregated suburbs in homes their parents paid for with the help of guaranteed loans backed by the government. Their parents, primarily fathers, were able to take advantage of all the government benefits from the G.I. bill. They watched the government enact a massive infrastructure project that has created permanent jobs in all 50 states called the interstate highway system. As children during that era, they were oblivious to the enormous government assistance whites received. As they grew up during this era and the so-called American work ethic was preached about, they saw only the progress and grew up to believe it was due to rugged individualism and earned by merit.

But those programs excluded people who were not white. And women did not have equal opportunity either. So then all this:

"We once had an America where the vast majority shared basic values of family, faith, personal integrity, responsibility, accountability, honor. A handshake was as good as a signed contract in most matters, and most accidents and disagreements were settled amicably without lawyers or courts getting involved.

We had the best education system in the world.
We had the best healthcare system in the world.
We had the best economy in the world.
We had the most innovative and creative initiatives in the world.

Democrats and Republicans worked together to provide mostly good government that promoted and accomplished the most free, most powerful, most benevolent, most secure nation in the world allowing for the most liberty, prosperity, choices, options and opportunity ever known on Planet Earth."

Didn't happen. Not for everybody. MAGA is a term used for a time, that Coyote accurately describes, that never was.

 

[IM2]

It not only existed but I grew up in it.

It didn't exist. I grew up in America too. What you believe is a tall tale.

 

[HikerGuy83]

We once had an America where the vast majority shared basic values of family, faith, personal integrity, responsibility, accountability, honor.

How do you measure that or know it to be true ?

A handshake was as good as a signed contract in most matters, and most accidents and disagreements were settled amicably without lawyers or courts getting involved.

O.K. Once again (and I think you are probably right) please provide some information or data to back up your claim.

We had the best education system in the world.

I am not sure that was ever true. We've had good individual systems. Or maybe that is what you meant....people could choose. I don't know. But a blanket statement isn't helpful.

I hope you don't think I am picking on you. I've always respected you as a poster (you are information based and level headed, plus I think you do a good job of synthesizing your life's experiences).

We had the best healthcare system in the world.

This is one I'd like to know more about. Just what do you mean by best ?

We had the best economy in the world.

This we can agree on, but I have to ask...so what ? That didn't do good things for everyone. We have some super rich people and we have a lot of poor people. (and no, my name isn't Bernie Sanders )

We had the most innovative and creative initiatives in the world.
Democrats and Republicans worked together to provide mostly good government that promoted and accomplished the most free, most powerful, most benevolent, most secure nation in the world allowing for the most liberty, prosperity, choices, options and opportunity ever known on Planet Earth.

You've said a lot....and I am not sure I can agree or disagree. I would not know what to use as a rebuttle.

Other than to say the opposite and sit there like a couple of posters I just barked at.

That what MAGA stands for.

So, either it doesn't stand for that, or Trump and Co. are huge liars.

Trump does nothing but antagonize (and Lauren Boebert and MTG are prime examples) his supporters do to. Stop playing nice is all I hear. That isn't working together.

Trump and our congress only continue to pass laws and do things that are taking us away from being free and powerful (and I'll point to a deficit I can't even comprehend as an example).

If you want our government to do those things, I would agree. But I don't see MAGA or it's disciples doing anything like it.

 

[IM2]

IM2 and Rambunctious

Please got off the thread. You both suck at this.

This is the clean debate zone which means you back up your claims and statements with examples and facts.

"Wrong" isn't an argument. It's an intellectually lazy way of acting like a petulant child.

Please get off the thread.

I think I have backed up my comments. With my last post. You be the judge.

 

[HikerGuy83]

He was not only laughed at then, but he was later laughed at during a NATO conference. He was not liked and the fact we elected him diminished the respect America had on the world stage.

Has nothing to do with my OP.

Get off the thread.

Make up your own.

 

[IM2]

Has nothing to do with my OP.

Get off the thread.

Make up your own.

Read post #33.

 

[HikerGuy83]

People know when their nation is respected and we are not...

When were we respected.

You certainly are not respecting the rules in the OP.

How did you determine we are not ?

 

[theHawk]

O.K.

That was when ? 1650 ?

It’s not about identifying some specific year and saying everything was great then.

Why do you people get so worked up about the idea of making America great again?