What CAN'T the federal government require you to purchase?

[SpidermanTuba]

Bern80, I can't read what you are saying.

 

[Bern80]

Bern80, I can't read what you are saying.

What you mean is you can't refute what I'm saying. If you have me on ignore I can understand when it gets to the point where you simply can't rationalize your own stupidity anymore and you have to do the board equivalent of wave the white flag.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Say what?

 

[Care4all]

11 State AGs so far are set to challenge. From the CSM:

The comments came after a Sunday night conference call of attorneys general from 11 states, in which most expressed support for legal action to block the law. In addition to Florida and South Carolina, the attorneys general backing legal action were from Alabama, Nebraska, Texas, Pennsylvania, Washington, Utah, North Dakota, and South Dakota. [Editor's note: The original paragraph has been changed to omit a state that will not participate in legal action.]

At the center of the controversy is the bill's inclusion of a federal mandate requiring all Americans to purchase health insurance or face penalties. Opponents say this measure stretches Congress’s constitutional power to “regulate commerce … among the several states” beyond any meaningful limits on federal authority. They say Congress is authorized to regulate behavior to protect public safety or welfare, but federal lawmakers overstep the constitutional limits of their power when they begin ordering Americans to purchase certain products.

“With this law, the federal government will force citizens to buy health insurance, claiming it has the authority to do so because of its power to regulate interstate commerce,” Cuccinelli said. “We contend that if a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person – by definition – is not engaging in commerce, and therefore, is not subject to a federal mandate.”

Attorneys general in 11 states poised to challenge healthcare bill / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

And the WSJ:

Writing at the Washington Post, Georgetown law prof Randy Barnett thinks that the Commerce Clause argument might give opponents of the bill the most ammunition. Writes Barnett:

While Congress has used its taxing power to fund Social Security and Medicare, never before has it used its commerce power to mandate that an individual person engage in an economic transaction with a private company. Regulating the auto industry or paying “cash for clunkers” is one thing; making everyone buy a Chevy is quite another. Even during World War II, the federal government did not mandate that individual citizens purchase war bonds.
​

i think the AG's have a good argument to present....

 

[SpidermanTuba]

While Congress has used its taxing power to fund Social Security and Medicare, never before has it used its commerce power to mandate that an individual person engage in an economic transaction with a private company.

[/QUOTE]


Doesn't matter. They aren't requiring anyone to buy anything. They are imposing a tax on the income of those without sufficient health coverage. Its no different than taxing smokers.

 

[manu1959]

“With this law, the federal government will force citizens to buy health insurance, claiming it has the authority to do so because of its power to regulate interstate commerce,” Cuccinelli said.

Don't these fucking morons realize that the federal government already requires citizens purchase medicare? You don't think the Justices who hear this crap are going to get a laugh when they ask the question "Where the fuck was your whining in 1965 when Medicare got passed" ?

Are people compelled to purchase Medicaire or is it an option that most people use?

the take money out of your paycheck...you bought it ....same with you government 401k....

 

[Care4all]

While Congress has used its taxing power to fund Social Security and Medicare, never before has it used its commerce power to mandate that an individual person engage in an economic transaction with a private company.

Doesn't matter. They aren't requiring anyone to buy anything. They are imposing a tax on the income of those without sufficient health coverage. Its no different than taxing smokers.

i dunno spiderman....?

they are not buying anything, but being taxed for NOT buying something. from a private business...?

smokers buy ciggies... drinkers buy alcohol

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I still have yet to receive a reasonable answer to this in light of the passage of the health care bill.

One person (spiderman) tried to weasel it into be constitutional under the 16th ammendment 'rationalizing' that since government is granted the power to tax income they can make requirements of the peope as long as they levy an income tax penalty for non-compliance. That of course is rather ludicrous.

Stop whining and buy your god damn health insurance

Not just yet thank you. You see it is Unconstitutional to try and make us. Hopefully the Supreme Court will rule JUST that, if not I suspect we will have some shooting to do.

 

[Care4all]

Don't these fucking morons realize that the federal government already requires citizens purchase medicare? You don't think the Justices who hear this crap are going to get a laugh when they ask the question "Where the fuck was your whining in 1965 when Medicare got passed" ?

Are people compelled to purchase Medicaire or is it an option that most people use?

the take money out of your paycheck...you bought it ....same with you government 401k....

but at least you are buying something with those particular taxes, you are buying a medicare policy for when you are 65 and you are buying an annuity of sorts with the SS retirement.

 

[Bern80]

Don't these fucking morons realize that the federal government already requires citizens purchase medicare? You don't think the Justices who hear this crap are going to get a laugh when they ask the question "Where the fuck was your whining in 1965 when Medicare got passed" ?

Are people compelled to purchase Medicaire or is it an option that most people use?

the take money out of your paycheck...you bought it ....same with you government 401k....

No. There is very real difference between being taxes for a government program and having money deposited to an account you own. You aren't buying medicare for you just as you aren't buying SS for you. You are funding a government program that you may or may not want to take part in that may or may not have adequate funding if you do want to use it.

 

[Bern80]

Are people compelled to purchase Medicaire or is it an option that most people use?

the take money out of your paycheck...you bought it ....same with you government 401k....

but at least you are buying something with those particular taxes, you are buying a medicare policy for when you are 65 and you are buying an annuity of sorts with the SS retirement.

Again no you are not. You are not purchasing your own meidcare policy from the tax taken out of your paycheck, nor is your SS tax being put in an account just for you. Medicare and SS are government programs just like building interestate highways is a government program, but you aren't buying a highway, you are funding the construction of a highway. That may seem like semantics, but there's a difference.

You mentioned before that you didn't see anythung constitutionally illegal about requiring people to purchase healthcare. So again I ask, what CAN'T the federal government require you to purchase?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

they are not buying anything, but being taxed for NOT buying something. from a private business...?

I'm glad you support the public option.

 

[Father Time]

Rightwinger do you have any reasons why you think are complaints are invalid or not?

 

[code1211]

they are not buying anything, but being taxed for NOT buying something. from a private business...?

I'm glad you support the public option.

We all need to support the public option because, by the time the whole program goes into effect in 2014, there won't be any private companies writing health insurance.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Some of you believe that it is unconstitutional. You are wrong until the Supreme Court says you are right. Unfortunately statute and case law will force even the conservative justices into a 9-0 vote to uphold the health insurance law. I will remind you all of this when that happens.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Some of you believe that it is unconstitutional. You are wrong until the Supreme Court says you are right. Unfortunately statute and case law will force even the conservative justices into a 9-0 vote to uphold the health insurance law. I will remind you all of this when that happens.

Please PM when you do.


The teabaggers will swear something is unconstitutional till they are blue in the face without any regard to practical reality.

Here's a tip teabaggers -

when people have two conflicting views regarding the Constitution, ultimately, the Supreme Court decides who is right.

So get over it.

 

[Bern80]

Some of you believe that it is unconstitutional. You are wrong until the Supreme Court says you are right. Unfortunately statute and case law will force even the conservative justices into a 9-0 vote to uphold the health insurance law. I will remind you all of this when that happens.

This is the same weak argument that spidey tried to use. It is your contention that whether something is truly constitutional is not dependent on whether the actual Constitution says it is but how a judge interprets it? You understand that that would mean anything and everything is constitutional until the court says otherwise, right? That doesn't seem a bit backwards to you?

Please explain to us why you believe the Supreme Court would unanimously decree that government for the first time ever requiring citizens to make a private purchase would be constitutional.

 

[86DuDE]

I still have yet to receive a reasonable answer to this in light of the passage of the health care bill.

One person (spiderman) tried to weasel it into be constitutional under the 16th ammendment 'rationalizing' that since government is granted the power to tax income they can make requirements of the peope as long as they levy an income tax penalty for non-compliance. That of course is rather ludicrous.

Stop whining and buy your god damn health insurance

You'll be whining when a real american spits in your face, kicks you in the balls, and bashes your tryant mouth shut smart guy.

 

[86DuDE]

If the government is going to force us all to buy insurance I want the government tio force all the fat fucks out there to join a gym and prove to an IRS agent that they work out for an hour a day or else be taxed.

I want the fucking government to force all those fat fucks who eat Twinkies, Oreos, fast food etc to prove they do not eat any of that shit or else be taxed.



If I'm subsidizing you health care I want my money's worth.

What are we twelve years old?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Some of you believe that it is unconstitutional. You are wrong until the Supreme Court says you are right. Unfortunately statute and case law will force even the conservative justices into a 9-0 vote to uphold the health insurance law. I will remind you all of this when that happens.

This is the same weak argument that spidey tried to use. It is your contention that whether something is truly constitutional is not dependent on whether the actual Constitution says it is but how a judge interprets it? You understand that that would mean anything and everything is constitutional until the court says otherwise, right? That doesn't seem a bit backwards to you?

Please explain to us why you believe the Supreme Court would unanimously decree that government for the first time ever requiring citizens to make a private purchase would be constitutional.

Already answered above. Find that and respond, please.